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Restaurant closing due to lack of staff in my area, anyone else?

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Turns out printing Trillions of dollars and giving "unemployed" (air quotes) people the equivalent of $40-$45K/year UBI leads to extreme labor shortages, extreme product/resource shortages, and astronomical inflation. Who'da thunk it.
Well that’s one way to win an election for next time.
 
There is, of course, issues with wealth disparity in this country. Absolutely no question.

That said, making sure the burger flipper can support a family of four on that one salary is simply not the right way to fix it.
HextvYG.png
 

Dr.Morris79

Gold Member
Unlivable wage jobs with no healthcare, no benefits at all really, that offer hostile enviroments even in the best of times, with historically high turnover rates, zero stability or security, and no one wants them?

I just can't wrap my head around it.
If you think them places are bad you should take a gander at health care in the UK. A basic HCA earns the bare minumum basic wage (You'd always, ALWAYS be in the red if you were single with just a flat, you could never rent a house), deals with actual physical and mental abuse all while dealing with every body fluid you can think of for twelve hours a day... in PPE, and have managers who dont have a clue ordering you around..

It's utterly awful.
 

Pol Pot

Banned
If you think them places are bad you should take a gander at health care in the UK. A basic HCA earns the bare minumum basic wage (You'd always, ALWAYS be in the red if you were single with just a flat, you could never rent a house), deals with actual physical and mental abuse all while dealing with every body fluid you can think of for twelve hours a day... in PPE, and have managers who dont have a clue ordering you around..

It's utterly awful.
So, like American restaurants with slightly more actual feces?
Both of them should be fixed then.
 

Soltype

Member
Unlivable wage jobs with no healthcare, no benefits at all really, that offer hostile enviroments even in the best of times, with historically high turnover rates, zero stability or security, and no one wants them?

I just can't wrap my head around it.
Worked in restaurants for most of my 20s, this is not entirely true. Wages are very livable depending on where you work, and how good you are. They are definitely hostile though, if you're a dummy restaurants are going to mess you up.
 

SF Kosmo

Banned
Are these former workers still getting EI or some other benefit? (Lots here in Canada were/are getting government benefits)
They put a little cherry on top of the usual UI (which caps out at 60% of your incline) which for people making under $15 an hour or so means they make more on unemployment than they did working. For a lot of other people they're still making way less on unemployment.

I think a lot of it comes down to schools being closed though. It's really a nightmare for everyone who has an in-person job right now. Like I go into a fast food place and the dining room is closed with like 5 kids running around because the employees have no where to put them. It's fucked up.
 
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Pol Pot

Banned
Worked in restaurants for most of my 20s, this is not entirely true. Wages are very livable depending on where you work, and how good you are. They are definitely hostile though, if you're a dummy restaurants are going to mess you up.
$7.25/hr is not a livable wage. Can you make more? Obviously. I was a bartender on the beach in South Carolina for years. I made amazing money. But only because the restaurant industry expects the public to subsidize our wages. My actual wage was $2.13/hr.

Again, no healthcare. No benefits of any kind.
No job security and the most toxic work environment I have personally been involved in. I don't think it's a sustainable thing any longer.

Remember when they were "heroes" in the early days of Covid? Lip service, bougie bullshit.
 

Soltype

Member
$7.25/hr is not a livable wage. Can you make more? Obviously. I was a bartender on the beach in South Carolina for years. I made amazing money. But only because the restaurant industry expects the public to subsidize our wages. My actual wage was $2.13/hr.

Again, no healthcare. No benefits of any kind.
No job security and the most toxic work environment I have personally been involved in. I don't think it's a sustainable thing any longer.

Remember when they were "heroes" in the early days of Covid? Lip service, bougie bullshit.
It is, but people need to temper their expectations. I lived off low paying jobs for a while, it is possible.
 

Soltype

Member
Oh, word?
Does that justify poverty level minimum wages and zero healthcare for a not insignificant number of workers then?
You said it was impossible, I'm saying it is. I've done it, and I've seen a good portion of my family do it too. I had a minimum of 2 jobs, but I had no real skills. You're crazy if you expect uneducated, unskilled people to work 40 a week and breathe easy.
 

Haint

Member
$7.25/hr is not a livable wage. Can you make more? Obviously. I was a bartender on the beach in South Carolina for years. I made amazing money. But only because the restaurant industry expects the public to subsidize our wages. My actual wage was $2.13/hr.

Again, no healthcare. No benefits of any kind.
No job security and the most toxic work environment I have personally been involved in. I don't think it's a sustainable thing any longer.

Remember when they were "heroes" in the early days of Covid? Lip service, bougie bullshit.

People earning such wages qualify for the maximum Obamacare subsidies AND special cost sharing plans (that have the lowest copays and out of pocket maximums). They would have better health insurance than pretty much everyone for somewhere between $0 - $20/month. If you paid them say $30K/year, they'd lose cost sharing status and much of their subsidy. They'd probably wind up paying $150-200 month for a useless plan with several grand in copays and a $20,000 out of pocket maximum.
 
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SF Kosmo

Banned
There is, of course, issues with wealth disparity in this country. Absolutely no question.

That said, making sure the burger flipper can support a family of four on that one salary is simply not the right way to fix it.
Ok, but maybe the burger flipper should be able to afford like a studio apartment and a payment on 2005 Hyundai?

Minimum wage hasn't gone up in 10 years. Inflation has radically outpaced minimum wage for decades. Shouldn't we at least square it at some point?
 
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Pol Pot

Banned
You said it was impossible, I'm saying it is. I've done it, and I've seen a good portion of my family do it too. I had a minimum of 2 jobs, but I had no real skills. You're crazy if you expect uneducated, unskilled people to work 40 a week and breathe easy.
Restaurant work isn't unskilled though.
And poverty level lifestyle isn't the bar we should be reaching for.
 

Raven117

Member
LOL. A bad cook is a bad cook.
Ok, but maybe the burger flipper should be able to afford like a studio apartment and a payment on 2005 Hyundai?

Minimum wage hasn't gone up in 10 years. Inflation has radically outpaced minimum wage for decades. Shouldn't we at least square it at some point?
Yes, I agree with this. There is a delicate balance between this, inflation, and of course the fact that tax payers end up subsidizing the corporations because they are picking up the bill for other basic needs in many cases (Wellfare, SNAPS, medicade, ER vists...and a whole host of other things....which is bull shit).

But yeah, it is skewed too far on this and should be "squared" as you say.
 

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I get it, nobody can sustain a family of 6 with a single minimum wage salary, but what about young workers without responsibility? Are they also collecting unemployment?

One of my first jobs was as a cashier at a Jack in The Box. I remember saving >4K over a summer alone.
 

Dural

Member
People earning such wages qualify for the maximum Obamacare subsidies AND special cost sharing plans (that have the lowest copays and out of pocket maximums). They would have better health insurance than pretty much everyone for somewhere between $0 - $20/month. If you paid them say $30K/year, they'd lose cost sharing status and much of their subsidy. They'd probably wind up paying $150-200 month for a useless plan with several grand in copays and a $20,000 out of pocket maximum.

It's a running joke in a city just north of where I am that all the single moms work CNA jobs that make no more than $13/hr because they know they'll still get all their state benefits including housing, food, day care, and health care. My wife is from the area and she has several friends from high school that have lived this life for 10+ years.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You said it was impossible, I'm saying it is. I've done it, and I've seen a good portion of my family do it too. I had a minimum of 2 jobs, but I had no real skills. You're crazy if you expect uneducated, unskilled people to work 40 a week and breathe easy.
"I did it by working 2 jobs"... very few people do this, statistically.. and there aren't enough jobs to go around for that number to go up in any significant way.

"It's possible for an individual" doesn't mean it's a way to have an economy setup that doesn't leave vast swaths of the population in poverty. We continuously just have more and more percentage of our wealth to a small subset of people while proclaiming it's "crazy" to think that any 40 hour job should provide a living wage.

There are countries on this planet that have 35 hour work weeks and incredibly low poverty rates.. and plenty of wealth to go around for people that want to get rich.
 

Hydelol

Banned
Everytime I read something like Burger Flippers are a stepping stone etc. ... why exactly are you thinking so lowly of a perfectly fine job? "Those" people are doing an important job. They are making food (if you consider Mcdonals food or not is another debate) for other people, work at least 40 hours /week (like any other job). In Germany min wage is barely 10 Euros without having paid taxes, so their pay is much lower then that in reality. Do you think they are only worth 5 Euros / hour or what exactly is your mindset?

Or the people working in retail like a clothing store? I've worked during University at one. Am I worth nothing to you? Without us, you could only buy clothes online because nothing would be prepared in the stores for you to look at and try on. And yeah sure, that was only a part time job while going to university, but without the 3-5 full time employees nothing could have worked there. Just some students who come to work 3-4 days for a few hours don't run a giant store.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yknow, people say this, but I was a high school dropout who busted my balls at various smaller restaurants, eventually worked my way up to manager at one, then a manager at a retail store, paid my way through community college, and eventually got myself into better and better gigs to the point where I was able to make a living wage where I am now. Still looking to improve

People expect entry level jobs to support above entry level lifestyles. It doesn't exactly equate to me

Should a Wal-Mart greeter really make enough to feed a family of three while paying a mortgage? I'm not so sure
I'm not going to get into a big debate about this particular subject. Your experience is irrelevant to me. All I will say is that I believe a person willing to work hard at a job should at the very least be able to live off the wage from that job regardless of the perceived importance of said job and it's requirements. Not extravagantly, but be able to live without having to work themselves to death at said job or work more than one job. They should also be entitled to basic medical coverage as well as a result of their employment regardless of ranking within the company or their hourly rate.


It's basic humanity in my opinion.
 
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teezzy

Banned
I'm not going to get into a big debate about this particular subject. Your experience is irrelevant to me. All I will say is that I believe a person willing to work hard at a job should at the very least be able to live off the wage from that job regardless of the perceived importance of said job and it's requirements. Not extravagantly, but be able to live without having to work themselves to death at said job or work more than one job. They should also be entitled to basic medical coverage as well as a result of their employment regardless of ranking within the company or their hourly rate.


It's basic humanity in my opinion.

My experience is relevant because it's a personal testimony of the exact type of person you're trying to vouch on the behalf of.

But we're not going to convince one another, I feel ya on that.

Cheers.
 

Soltype

Member
Restaurant work isn't unskilled though.
And poverty level lifestyle isn't the bar we should be reaching for.
it is unskilled, the barrier of entry is crazy low.I'm not talking chef's, it doesn't take much intelligence or effort to excel at cooking.
"I did it by working 2 jobs"... very few people do this, statistically.. and there aren't enough jobs to go around for that number to go up in any significant way.

"It's possible for an individual" doesn't mean it's a way to have an economy setup that doesn't leave vast swaths of the population in poverty. We continuously just have more and more percentage of our wealth to a small subset of people while proclaiming it's "crazy" to think that any 40 hour job should provide a living wage.

There are countries on this planet that have 35 hour work weeks and incredibly low poverty rates.. and plenty of wealth to go around for people that want to get rich.
I have no problem with 40 hours being enough for a living wage, I currently only do 40.I had to get an education, and I even volunteered some to be able to work 40 hours a week and be comfortable. I used to work 65 + hours a week, I never felt it was unfair considering my skill set.
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
My experience is relevant because it's a personal testimony of the exact type of person you're trying to vouch on the behalf of.

But we're not going to convince one another, I feel ya on that.

Cheers.
Agree to disagree then.

My main point is that a person would be able to work 40hours a week at any job and be able to support themselves at the very least. A person should never have to work more than one job to provide the basics for themselves. This includes basic shelter (a cheap apartment for example) food, and medical care without fearing for their financial safety if they were to go to the doctor.


Once again I consider this to be the bare minimum for a person in a modern society in a first world country.
 
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nush

Gold Member
I wonder how many women found out how much they can make being a cam girl during lockdown? My friend started camming during lockdown now she easily clears £3K a month she's literally got no skills or experience to get other work above entry level work. She was offered a security job but she couldn't start that until after the lockdown but she just didn't take that job as she intended to because compared to camming it's long hours, shitty pay and customer facing.

Obviously not everyone can be a cammer.
 
I wonder how many women found out how much they can make being a cam girl during lockdown? My friend started camming during lockdown now she easily clears £3K a month she's literally got no skills or experience to get other work above entry level work. She was offered a security job but she couldn't start that until after the lockdown but she just didn't take that job as she intended to because compared to camming it's long hours, shitty pay and customer facing.

Obviously not everyone can be a cammer.
The dankest of jobs.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
I wonder how many women found out how much they can make being a cam girl during lockdown? My friend started camming during lockdown now she easily clears £3K a month she's literally got no skills or experience to get other work above entry level work. She was offered a security job but she couldn't start that until after the lockdown but she just didn't take that job as she intended to because compared to camming it's long hours, shitty pay and customer facing.

Obviously not everyone can be a cammer.
If you're a reasonably pretty girl you're always going to have it easy in life. ;) Streaming or posting stuff on sites likes onlyfans are just among the new options for making money.
 

Haint

Member
Agree to disagree then.

My main point is that a person would be able to work 40hours a week at any job and be able to support themselves at the very least. A person should never have to work more than one job to provide the basics for themselves. This includes basic shelter (a cheap apartment for example) food, and medical care without fearing for their financial safety if they were to go to the doctor.


Once again I consider this to be the bare minimum for a person in a modern society in a first world country.

Again, medical insurance is not a talking point. Anyone earning anywhere near minimum wage qualifies for cost sharing Obamacare that is free or as close to free as possible (<$20) and better than Platinum tier plans. That is the one area they have absolutely nothing to complain about. Someone legitimately trying to live independently on that wage is up a shit creek WRT everything else though, likely scrimping by on dirt cheap food in a roach apartment (and/or with several roommates). Paying everyone $15/hr is a dubious solution though, cause money's not the problem, it's the physical limitation of resources and time. Everyone's still going to be competing for the same finite amount of housing, food, and luxury goods, etc... the prices will simply reequilibrate to what is largely the same have/have-not divide. Major metropolises like NYC and LA have had $15 minimum's for a while, with many in the retail/service sector earning $20-$25+, yet they still live in poverty. They pay all their extra money to the professional and elite classes, who rents them a 400sq/ft apartment @ $3500/mo or sells them a $2000 cellphone. It's a never ending cycle. You have to take the money from the rich, not seek to equalize the service, lower middle, and middle middle classes, which is what huge minimum wage hikes would do. That's just having the poor fight the poor.
 
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Hulk_Smash

Banned
Lotta places with limited hours by me, mostly.

There's going to be a labor shortage until we reopen schools. People can't work full time when their kids have to basically be home schooled. It has nothing to do with unemployment benefits, people want to work but they can't without schools.
Every time you start making sense you go and say something like this lol!

The vast majority of people who work in the food industry are part time or barely full time. They’re staying home because of free money.

Only the most liberal states are still online only schooling. Every other state has in person options. Although you are probably right in some areas of the country.
 

YCoCg

Member
More like restaurants closing due to lazy fucks trying to ride off covid payments and taxpayers.

In Canada, I think you still get $2000/mth.

Why go back to low end jobs when you can sit home and get paid, and not have to worry about getting up in the morn or spending money on lunch or gas or taking the bus for work?
You frame this as a bad thing? Of course no one is going to bust their ass to barely make $1,000 when you can get $2,000 for doing nothing.

You've also gone on the attack without taking into account a lot of people used COVID and the reserve money to transfer AWAY from fast food jobs and venture into other work that either pays more or is more enjoyable/flexible.

So yeah, why go back to low end jobs indeed? Especially when they're in a better position by NOT working the crappy job anymore.
 

SafeOrAlone

Banned
Maybe it's a chicken or egg thing but the reason I can't stand to go to a place like McDonalds, is the customer service, more so than the food quality. McDonalds employees are often the most dead-eyed, seemingly depressed, or angry people you will meet.
Generally don't trust them to follow health or safety protocol with the food either, based on that.
There are always exceptions of course. I see you, polite McDonalds employee.

Would they behave this way if they were paid more? I'm not sure. Just putting it out there.
 

daveonezero

Banned
Why is Wage and UBI always suggested but no one wants to decrease the regulations, taxes, money printing, government spending and other thing increasing the cost of living?

this is why you can’t win in this system. It is rigged.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
You frame this as a bad thing? Of course no one is going to bust their ass to barely make $1,000 when you can get $2,000 for doing nothing.

You've also gone on the attack without taking into account a lot of people used COVID and the reserve money to transfer AWAY from fast food jobs and venture into other work that either pays more or is more enjoyable/flexible.

So yeah, why go back to low end jobs indeed? Especially when they're in a better position by NOT working the crappy job anymore.
Because it means the person is a lazy fuck trying to milk the system. Ir's even worse in Canada because there's no verification. You just apply and get it no matter what. I could had applied and even gotten it. I don't think the government assumed so many assholes would just blindly apply hoping to game the system, and then sit there doing nothing when businesses reopen.

The point of covid payments (as well as traditional EI unemployment pay outs) is to cover someone out of a job they lost and the need time to get another one.

The point isnt to sit there and do nothing and still get it forever.

What covid payouts should be doing is treating it like normal EI where if youre sitting on your ass putting zero effort into job searches and getting re-employment, you get zero. Just like normal EI processes.
 
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Pol Pot

Banned
Every time you start making sense you go and say something like this lol!

The vast majority of people who work in the food industry are part time or barely full time. They’re staying home because of free money.

Only the most liberal states are still online only schooling. Every other state has in person options. Although you are probably right in some areas of the country.
Anecdotal as fuck, but I've been a bartender all over the southeast and midwest and the vast majority of the employees relied on those jobs to support their families.
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
So this is interesting to me, 2 restaurants near us (North Dallas), Panera and a taco shop, both had to shut down this week due to not having enough staff to work. The manager is on our community social network talking about how its brutal right now finding any willing staff to come back and they can't get authorization to offer more pay as incentive. Anyone else seeing short staff/closures at fast food/restaurants in their area? I had heard the food industry was having a tough time, but this is the first time I've seen it affect anything. That same manager talked about other locations possibly closing to transfer staff around, and the big new development area near us is delaying its public opening while they deal with staffing issues.

Part of me thought everyone would want to go back to work, especially as Texas has now ended the Covid unemployment increase, but maybe I was wrong on that.
1/6 of our city's more expensive restaurants shutdown due to accounting issues which results from such long closes during the start of the pandemic. I'm in South Central Mexico but these were upscale and a couple I really liked too. One was Argentinean, one Italian, another Brazilian, and one was luxury Mexican seafood. It's a relatively expensive real estate part of the city but I figured those guys had some kind of safety net. Unfortunately, they weren't franchised anything greater than 2-3 locations for any given. European tourists frequented them as much as this gringo. Lack of staff was only one of many things that lead to their closures. Things back build around here but these were well established for 10-15 years in their main location... Not sure anything new could replace them.
 
Because it means the person is a lazy fuck trying to milk the system. Ir's even worse in Canada because there's no verification. You just apply and get it no matter what. I could had applied and even gotten it. I don't think the government assumed so many assholes would just blindly apply hoping to game the system, and then sit there doing nothing when businesses reopen.

The point of covid payments (as well as traditional EI unemployment pay outs) is to cover someone out of a job they lost and the need time to get another one.

The point isnt to sit there and do nothing and still get it forever.

What covid payouts should be doing is treating it like normal EI where if youre sitting on your ass putting zero effort into job searches and getting re-employment, you get zero. Just like normal EI processes.

Sending thoughts and prayers to the "small businesses" scamming government money and taking handouts while their employees........do the same but get way less money.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I have no problem with 40 hours being enough for a living wage, I currently only do 40.I had to get an education, and I even volunteered some to be able to work 40 hours a week and be comfortable. I used to work 65 + hours a week, I never felt it was unfair considering my skill set.
Why does it have to be about "fairness"?

There are literally only so many hours for people to work in this country.. we are in a labor shortage right now, but we've had job shortages as well..

And if too many people work 65+ hours a week, we'd certainly have more job shortages.

Designing an economy around that concept is just bizarre...too many people get a skill, and there aren't enough jobs for that skill either, so not everyone with an education is going to get a skilled labor job.

We can do a lot better... have less people in poverty.. which means less crime, a nicer place to live, etc... and still have plenty of rich people. It's ridiculous how much disparity there is right now.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
All of our restaurants have limited staff signs right now. I think a way to help would be to increase wages, and that increases cost across the board. But with the current inflation rate every thing will cost more soon.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
All of our restaurants have limited staff signs right now. I think a way to help would be to increase wages, and that increases cost across the board. But with the current inflation rate every thing will cost more soon.
It's an industry that's a little ridiculous though... vast majority of restaurants fail. Over half open up and fail within the first year.. it's a wasteful industry notoriously shitty to work in.

We need less restaurants, more strip clubs, I say.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Sending thoughts and prayers to the "small businesses" scamming government money and taking handouts while their employees........do the same but get way less money.
Probably true too.

Last spring/summer, the Canada covid payment tracker was 9 million. At that time only 3-4 million people lost their jobs. Most businesses stayed open.

A clusterfuck of jackasses gaming the system.
 

YCoCg

Member
Because it means the person is a lazy fuck trying to milk the system. Ir's even worse in Canada because there's no verification. You just apply and get it no matter what. I could had applied and even gotten it. I don't think the government assumed so many assholes would just blindly apply hoping to game the system, and then sit there doing nothing when businesses reopen.

The point of covid payments (as well as traditional EI unemployment pay outs) is to cover someone out of a job they lost and the need time to get another one.

The point isnt to sit there and do nothing and still get it forever.

What covid payouts should be doing is treating it like normal EI where if youre sitting on your ass putting zero effort into job searches and getting re-employment, you get zero. Just like normal EI processes.
And again, what about the people who used this money to move themselves out of this line of work? Should they be expected to go back to a shitty job with less pay/less interest to the person?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
And again, what about the people who used this money to move themselves out of this line of work? Should they be expected to go back to a shitty job with less pay/less interest to the person?
What proof do you have people took the money and boosted themselves to better jobs?

And for you, what about all the people in Canada or US (or wherever) sitting at home milking money doing nothing?

Even I worked during high school at minimum wage jobs to make some cash (as well as being sick of sitting at home all summer). I could had just sat home and grab money off my parents when I needed it. But I got off my ass.
 
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YCoCg

Member
What proof do you have people took the money and boosted themselves to better jobs?
I know a few people who have done that, and their previous job was practically begging them to come back due to major staff shortages. What would you do in that situation? Go back to your old lower paying job or stick with the new job you found that caters to you more?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I know a few people who have done that, and their previous job was practically begging them to come back due to major staff shortages. What would you do in that situation? Go back to your old lower paying job or stick with the new job you found that caters to you more?
No doubt. Move on to a better job.

You really think out of the millions of people milking covid payments sitting at home are upgrading to all better jobs?

You try to make it sound like 10s of millions of people in Canada and US have all upgraded themselves to better jobs the past 12 months.

If they couldnt get better jobs before when unemployment rates were at record lows, do you really think they are all getting awesome jobs the past 12 months?
 
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Pol Pot

Banned
What proof do you have people took the money and boosted themselves to better jobs?

And for you, what about all the people in Canada or US (or wherever) sitting at home milking money doing nothing?

Even I worked during high school at minimum wage jobs to make some cash (as well as being sick of sitting at home all summer). I could had just sat home and grab money off my parents when I needed it. But I got off my ass.
I imagine as much proof as you have that the only reason people aren't taking these jobs are because they're lazy and would rather collect unemployment.

South Carolina cut off benefits. Charleston is still understaffed.
 
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