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[StreetsofBeige]

I imagine as much proof as you have that the only reason people aren't taking these jobs are because they're lazy and would rather collect unemployment.

South Carolina cut off benefits. Charleston is still understaffed.

I never said they are lazy fucks for working at a bad job. The opposite. I want the lazy fucks sitting at home who were working at that job to go back to work like before and stop grabbing free money. If the place is back up and running and trying to get workers back, then go back.

If this was standard EI, most of these people milking the covid systems would already be cut off since they would require proving effort to finding a job, and having jobs offered back.

Instead, covid payments are loosey goosey in many parts without the same process as EI, even though it's really no different.

 

[YCoCg]

You really think out of the millions of people milking covid payments sitting at home are upgrading to all better jobs?

You try to make it sound like 10s of millions of people in Canada and US have all upgraded themselves to better jobs the past 12 months.

If they couldnt get better jobs before when unemployment rates were at record lows, do you really think they are all getting awesome jobs the past 12 months?

You'd be surprised, certainly not all of them but most people I know who worked in the service industry bailed on that job.

And yes, again when you've got an income and all that free time it allowed most of them to devote that to canvasing the job market and trying something different instead of working 10/12 hour shifts and being too drained to apply for anything.

COVID exposed the downsides of that industry to a greater number so it's no real surprise that out of all the industries coming back, that one is struggling to keep staff or convince them back.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You'd be surprised, certainly not all of them but most people I know who worked in the service industry bailed on that job.

And yes, again when you've got an income and all that free time it allowed most of them to devote that to canvasing the job market and trying something different instead of working 10/12 hour shifts and being too drained to apply for anything.

COVID exposed the downsides of that industry to a greater number so it's no real surprise that out of all the industries coming back, that one is struggling to keep staff or convince them back.

Well have to see if your theory is correct.

If it is then employed people's avg wages should be zooming up the charts as millions of minimum wagers have scored better jobs the past 12 months.

It should lead to the biggest boost in avg wages in history.

 

[YCoCg]

Well have to see if your theory is correct.

If it is then employed people's avg wages should be zooming up the charts as millions of minimum wagers have scored better jobs the past 12 months.

It should lead to the biggest boost in avg wages in history.

Keep those expectations tempered though, some are earning the same amount they made previously but working less hours and days, it's still a positive upgrade in that case on a personal level.

 

[highrider]

Don’t see how you can respond in a non-political way. I can say that work as an auto painter has completely tanked in my area, so I’ve gone from 6 figures to 50k overnight essentially. Ironically I’m working as a sous chef on weekends because my best friends are brothers that own a small Italian restaurant that they are unable to get anyone beyond their long term core staff of a half dozen. I’m at the top level of the trade, that’s real bad in Maryland and I think driving and car use in general is never going to be the same.

 

[AJUMP23]

Sending thoughts and prayers to the "small businesses" scamming government money and taking handouts while their employees........do the same but get way less money.

Speaking of scams we had some guys here that were enrolling kids in the south of the state in schools in the north of the state to pocket the money. They were so good at it they were raided by the FBI in 2 months.

 

[AJUMP23]

Don’t see how you can respond in a non-political way. I can say that work as an auto painter has completely tanked in my area, so I’ve gone from 6 figures to 50k overnight essentially. Ironically I’m working as a sous chef on weekends because my best friends are brothers that own a small Italian restaurant that they are unable to get anyone beyond their long term core staff of a half dozen. I’m at the top level of the trade, that’s real bad in Maryland and I think driving and car use in general is never going to be the same.

How much to give my minivan a killer paint job?

 

[DeepBreath87]

Keep those expectations tempered though, some are earning the same amount they made previously but working less hours and days, it's still a positive upgrade in that case on a personal level.

They calculate average hourly wage too, you know.

 

[99Luffy]

I never said they are lazy fucks for working at a bad job. The opposite. I want the lazy fucks sitting at home who were working at that job to go back to work like before and stop grabbing free money. If the place is back up and running and trying to get workers back, then go back.

If this was standard EI, most of these people milking the covid systems would already be cut off since they would require proving effort to finding a job, and having jobs offered back.

Instead, covid payments are loosey goosey in many parts without the same process as EI, even though it's really no different.

Am I missing something here. Covid payments ended in 2020 in canada, we're 6 months into 2021. And theres still a lockdown for the entire country as of today afaik. A labor shortage seems pretty farfetched.

 

[p_xavier]

Am I missing something here. Covid payments ended in 2020 in canada, we're 6 months into 2021. And theres still a lockdown for the entire country as of today afaik. A labor shortage seems pretty farfetched.

Covid payments were transferred to a bonified EI. So basically same amount until the Fall.

 

[Bridges]

I have friends in restaurant management, they had to furlough almost their entire staff at the beginning of quarantine and now that they're back open none of the employees want to come back. Some of them found better opportunities but the majority of them would rather just sit on unemployment than have to work for a similar amount of money.

 

[Batiman]

Young ppl are crypto hustlers now. They can’t work 9-5. Seems like that’s the mentality with the younger generation

 

[teezzy]

_

Young ppl are crypto hustlers now. They can’t work 9-5. Seems like that’s the mentality with the younger generation

If there's a smarter, more efficient, way to pay the bills - let them do it

Amen and stay blessed

 

[xrnzaaas]

In my city there was always a problem for business owners with finding employees because of very low unemployment rate. Besides not many people want to pick gastronomy because of having to work in the evenings/weekends and having to deal with all sorts of shitty customers. But that's not the main problem right now. Pubs and restaurants just reopened recently in my country and in most of them the prices have skyrocketed. It's like they want to earn as much money as possible before the next possible lockdown/restrictions in the fall. I don't think it's going to work outside of popular vacation spots where many people will have to visit restaurants instead of cooking at home.

 

[Batiman]

_


If there's a smarter, more efficient, way to pay the bills - let them do it

Amen and stay blessed

I agree. The problem is that it seems everyone has that mind set whether they’re good at it or not. Seen too many kids throw away their college funds because the internet told them to only suckers work under someone. I guess lockdown added to this.

 

[Blade2.0]

No one wants to work 40 a week and still be poor. Wages need raising across the board.

 

[Hulk_Smash]

In my city there was always a problem for business owners with finding employees because of very low unemployment rate. Besides not many people want to pick gastronomy because of having to work in the evenings/weekends and having to deal with all sorts of shitty customers. But that's not the main problem right now. Pubs and restaurants just reopened recently in my country and in most of them the prices have skyrocketed. It's like they want to earn as much money as possible before the next possible lockdown/restrictions in the fall. I don't think it's going to work outside of popular vacation spots where many people will have to visit restaurants instead of cooking at home.

Prices have skyrocketed because of inflation due to the government over-printing money.

it might also be because of food shortages depending on the crop due again to low employment. The low employment being due to unemployment payments.

Don’t underestimate the absolute efficiency and dedication the government gives to completely fucking up an already-exasperated problem. (No matter who is in charge.)

 

[RPS37]

I work at a severely understaffed chain restaurant.
I’m smart enough to know that when EI benefits run out, we’re not going to magically get people.
They got better jobs, guys.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yknow, people say this, but I was a high school dropout who busted my balls at various smaller restaurants, eventually worked my way up to manager at one, then a manager at a retail store, paid my way through community college, and eventually got myself into better and better gigs to the point where I was able to make a living wage where I am now. Still looking to improve

People expect entry level jobs to support above entry level lifestyles. It doesn't exactly equate to me

Should a Wal-Mart greeter really make enough to feed a family of three while paying a mortgage? I'm not so sure

It's a zero sum game, for everyone who makes it, several are below to sustain that salary.

I'm not saying you should feel guilt because of your success, just a stark reminder that our society has inequality built in.

Truth is, you're subsidising those low wages, and thus the profits of the companies employing them, through regular benefits.

Anyways, we're entering a gray politics zone, so I'm bowing out.

 

[RPS37]

I’ll demand an apology in September.
Y’all honestly believe they’re just going to be frantically looking for a job then.
Think logically. People got you resenting people that literally don’t exist.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Society is coming around to the idea that slaving away at bullshit jobs with no guarantee at economic and professional mobility (despite effort and productivity) is not compatible with life pursuits.

I have friends in restaurant management, they had to furlough almost their entire staff at the beginning of quarantine and now that they're back open none of the employees want to come back. Some of them found better opportunities but the majority of them would rather just sit on unemployment than have to work for a similar amount of money.

And people act like THIS is the problem. Or that UBI would be a problem. Give people some economic breathing room and they will find better things to do.

I can’t blame someone if they don’t want to go to work for 40 hours a week (more like 50-60 considering commute times, overtime, etc.) unless it can sustain their basic necessities AND leave room for personal entertainment and saving money on the side.

None of this is rocket science.

 

[Orutisu Furio]

Unlivable wage jobs with no healthcare, no benefits at all really, that offer hostile enviroments even in the best of times, with historically high turnover rates, zero stability or security, and no one wants them?

I just can't wrap my head around it.

Bingo.

Also a lot of workers have gone into different lines of work or trades. They know the COVID payments won't laster forever anyways.

 

[Orutisu Furio]

Society is coming around to the idea that slaving away at bullshit jobs with no guarantee at economic and professional mobility (despite effort and productivity) is not compatible with life pursuits.


And people act like THIS is the problem. Or that UBI would be a problem. Give people some economic breathing room and they will find better things to do.

I can’t blame someone if they don’t want to go to work for 40 hours a week (more like 50-60 considering commute times, overtime, etc.) unless it can sustain their basic necessities AND leave room for personal entertainment and saving money on the side.

None of this is rocket science.

Also correct.

People realized during the pandemic that you could basically die the next day from COVID on a whim, and wasting away your life flipping burgers or serving pretentious customers their overpriced Panera salad just isn't worth it.

 

[nush]

How much to give my minivan a killer paint job?

 

[BadBurger]

These jobs are shit. They don't offer enough to live and have zero benefits. Fuck em. Let them all go down.

 

[Bridges]

Society is coming around to the idea that slaving away at bullshit jobs with no guarantee at economic and professional mobility (despite effort and productivity) is not compatible with life pursuits.


And people act like THIS is the problem. Or that UBI would be a problem. Give people some economic breathing room and they will find better things to do.

I can’t blame someone if they don’t want to go to work for 40 hours a week (more like 50-60 considering commute times, overtime, etc.) unless it can sustain their basic necessities AND leave room for personal entertainment and saving money on the side.

None of this is rocket science.

I am pro-UBI, but I am also pro-work. I don't blame the people who are offered just as much to stay home as they think they'd be getting from tips anyway, but I do think there is a balance to be had. This whole situation needs to be thought through before it ends with all the restaurants shutting down and the people who actually want to work losing their jobs with them.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Unlivable wage jobs with no healthcare, no benefits at all really, that offer hostile enviroments even in the best of times, with historically high turnover rates, zero stability or security, and no one wants them?

I just can't wrap my head around it.

Agree’d, they want to stick around? Its time to raise wages and treat employees better. Ive worked a lot of shitty jobs, no one should dread going to work

 

[JSoup]

"Well, a dad in 1965 could support a family of 4 working as an office clerk, so why cant we in 2021?"

The funny part is when the people saying this really learn how much things have changed.
My grandfather used to get me crap for paying for training in this and that instead of just getting work. I explained to him that's just how the world works now, he would just laugh. I finally said take me into your current job, put in a word for me, see how much your word and firm handshake is actually worth.

Now, he wasn't a dumb guy. Trained army machinist and fabricator, knowledge across several subjects of engineering, mechanical maintenance, electrician work...the list went on. All learned in the army, no formal degree besides his Machinist Guild of America papers.

So we get there, he asks his boss about getting me a job, various things about how I'm smart, trained by him, blah blah blah. The guy is just staring at him with this uncomfortable, slightly hurt look.

"[grandfathers name]....I hired you specifically because you -don't- have a degree and you're over 70. From you I get someone who is over a certain mark outlined in the contract, so I'm not required to offer you the full health insurance package and someone who has PHD level knowledge and experience, but not paper backing it up. Meaning I can pay you part-time entry level wages for full-time manager level work. I hired you because you're a dying commodity: Cheap experienced labor that's completely unaware that it's being used."

 

[Robot Carnival]

I've worked restaurants before and this is not surprising. very few who work in a restaurant would want to work there forever. hell, even the chefs usually think about getting a better restaurant with more pay or opening up their own. after a year or so of not able to work, a lot of the restaurant workers probably went on to better things. even if the new job pays less than the restaurant's pay and tips combine, it would be much less back breaking and chances are you'll run into assholes and Karens much less frequent. people, when given time to think and choice, would of course choice the option that would be more worthwhile. and if you really think about the restaurant work, minimum wage plus reduced tips (since even after they lift the restrictions there would still be a lot less people dinning in than before) in exchange of most of your time and energy, it's not hard to see why folks who has the choice would switch away from them. this would lead to the restaurants getting the wages up but also jacking up the prices, which is to be expected. eventually the market would sort this out and then things would be back to normal.

edit: the government's unemployment benefit is only going to last so long, and at half of your previous wage plus a few hundred a month, it's not the real reason people are not going back to these jobs. a lot of people are just sick and tire of staying at that level and want to move up. this pandemic sorta just gave them the opportunity to do that.

 

[Winter John]

I've had zero problems but that's because I've always been fair with my staff. They're professionals. They expect a professional salary and they deserve one. There hasn't been a single one of my crew who refused to come back. If all those assholes who are crying about recruitment now had learned to treat their people with basic respect they'd be in my position. I.e. They'd have a team ready and willing to work.

 

[oagboghi2]

Lotta places with limited hours by me, mostly.

There's going to be a labor shortage until we reopen schools. People can't work full time when their kids have to basically be home schooled. It has nothing to do with unemployment benefits, people want to work but they can't without schools.

Fucking laughable

I bet, all of those single adults and childless couples are staying home to homeschool their imaginary kids.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Fucking laughable

I bet, all of those single adults and childless couples are staying home to homeschool their imaginary kids
Of those single adults and childless couples are staying home for to homeschool their imaginary kids

Of all the counterpoints you could have gone with you chose to go with "Nor enough restaurant workers have kids to create a shortage of labor."

You're really fucking bad at this. I am not sure if you're just trying to troll or you're really this dumb, but you don't have to work this hard to prove it either way.

 

[oagboghi2]

Everytime I read something like Burger Flippers are a stepping stone etc. ... why exactly are you thinking so lowly of a perfectly fine job? "Those" people are doing an important job. They are making food (if you consider Mcdonals food or not is another debate) for other people, work at least 40 hours /week (like any other job). In Germany min wage is barely 10 Euros without having paid taxes, so their pay is much lower then that in reality. Do you think they are only worth 5 Euros / hour or what exactly is your mindset?

Or the people working in retail like a clothing store? I've worked during University at one. Am I worth nothing to you? Without us, you could only buy clothes online because nothing would be prepared in the stores for you to look at and try on. And yeah sure, that was only a part time job while going to university, but without the 3-5 full time employees nothing could have worked there. Just some students who come to work 3-4 days for a few hours don't run a giant store.

Brutal truth. Yes you aren’t that important. Stocking clothing stores and flipping burgers are not needs, and they can be done by anyone. That’s why their wage is lower than others.

Get a job that people need, and is in demand, and all of a sudden your wage will increase.

 

[ClanOfNone]

It's always weird when I see people post about how you can't make a decent living working restaurant gigs, I've supported myself quite well for over two decades in the industry.

When I was young and drinking/drugging constantly I was making a real killing, I was probably raking in 80k+ behind a bar in my 20's.
lol, got jack shit to show for it as I pissed 99% of it away on drugs and booze. THAT is the real danger of the service industry.

Even now in my 40's, I've got a decent day gig at a local place, making around 50k a year and working 25 hours a week tending day bar. I'm a single dad, and my two daughters and I live pretty comfortably if I do say so myself.

 

[oagboghi2]

Of all the counterpoints you could have gone with you chose to go with "Nor enough restaurant workers have kids to create a shortage of labor."

You're really fucking bad at this. I am not sure if you're just trying to troll or you're really this dumb, but you don't have to work this hard to prove it either way.

Show me the data that the current labor shortage is due to school closures. Mind you, schools are reopening to normal hours all the time, meanwhile this labor shortage is increasing.

you just pulled this out of your ass because you saw children run around in a McDonalds. Was I supposed to treat that stupid as fuck theory with any respect?

because if you are serious, than I have to say you are really bad at this

 

[oagboghi2]

If the theory that “everyone got a better job during COVID” is true, than we should end the benefits and the rent eviction bans. Oh and end the moratorium on stopping student loans payments.

everyone has better jobs now, right? That’s why the last jobs report was so positive.

oh wait, no it was a disaster



People were using the stimulus benefits and various federal regulations to hoard cash during COVID. They are stting on nest eggs, and probably buying crypto or whatever, hoping that goes on another run. They don’t feel the pressure to return to work because they don’t need to. We are paying them to not work.

 

[nush]

It's always weird when I see people post about how you can't make a decent living working restaurant gigs,

You then continue to talk about working behind a bar, do waiting staff, cooks have the same opportunities to clear that money?

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Young ppl are crypto hustlers now. They can’t work 9-5. Seems like that’s the mentality with the younger generation

Sounds like someone's mad they're getting shit pay working long ass hours. Seems like that's the mentality with the older generation

 

[highrider]

How much to give my minivan a killer paint job?

A top level paint job starts around 10k for an all over. But there’s always another level like any trade. You can get a good all over particularly if it’s not a color change for around 3 to 5k depending where you are located. I generally work collision repair but also do custom, artistic jobs on the side.

Most of the cost in a proper paint job is disassembly and wetsanding and polishing after spraying to make it perfect, and like anything one man will be perfectly happy with a scuff and spray from Maaco yet another man will need to be able to discern his pores in the reflection of the paint


Also as an aside I can appreciate a novelty slicked out minivan, but I’m doing more e-bikes, helmets and skateboards now. Just easier to work in as side work. Most collision shops don’t want full paint jobs, they need to turn cars fast for space.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Show me the data that the current labor shortage is due to school closures. Mind you, schools are reopening to normal hours all the time, meanwhile this labor shortage is increasing.

you just pulled this out of your ass because you saw children run around in a McDonalds. Was I supposed to treat that stupid as fuck theory with any respect?

because if you are serious, than I have to say you are really bad at this

Except I never said it was the only cause, I just said that if you don't open schools back up a lot of people can't work full time and you're still going to have a shortage. And then you came back at me with "Nuh uh people don't have kids."

 

[Pol Pot]

People don't want to be disrespected daily. Spent all of the last year putting their own and their families lives at risk doing these jobs. Decide it's not worth it. Don't go back. Come to find out it's because they're lazy and would rather take free money.

So fine. It's unskilled labor. They don't deserve a non toxic work environment. They certainly don't deserve to be able to live off of said unskilled labor. They can be replaced.

No one replaces them. General public can't get a fucking egg McMuffin in two minutes. Commence meltdown.

What did we learn?

A lot of people are self centered children.
Will gladly dehumanize another for their own convenience. So, nothing. We learned nothing..

 

[ClanOfNone]

You then continue to talk about working behind a bar, do waiting staff, cooks have the same opportunities to clear that money?

Servers do absolutely, there are servers at my store that clear more than me. Cooks, not so much, but they are making a mint currently. Restaurants are desperate for help,.so if you've got skills, you can command a much higher wage in the back of house. Overtime, which is normally not really given at my store has been liberally spread around the past six months.
Checks can be fat, but it means 60-70 hour weeks for the Cooks. Front of house is where the money is in the service industry

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's always weird when I see people post about how you can't make a decent living working restaurant gigs, I've supported myself quite well for over two decades in the industry.

When I was young and drinking/drugging constantly I was making a real killing, I was probably raking in 80k+ behind a bar in my 20's.
lol, got jack shit to show for it as I pissed 99% of it away on drugs and booze. THAT is the real danger of the service industry.

Even now in my 40's, I've got a decent day gig at a local place, making around 50k a year and working 25 hours a week tending day bar. I'm a single dad, and my two daughters and I live pretty comfortably if I do say so myself.

In the 90s I had various PT jobs during school and summer. Busboy, waiter, working in plants wearing overalls. My best paying joib was as a waiter. The hourly minimum wage was shit. It was something like $4/hr as it's set lower than normal minimum wage. But add in the tip (and back then it was a lot more cash used) and it was by far the best paying job as a student I had.

Restaurant workers typically fit two sets. The McJob getting $10/hr. And then waiters and servers (and for you bartender) which make much more.

The typical restaurant jackass making good money serving and getting tips will never tell the world it can make bank. They'll happily stress the minimum wage set is lower than a Walmart worker by $2/hr trying to make it look like they get paid less than a fry cook. But never tell they just made $200 in tips on a weekend.

And nobody getting cash tips claims it on income tax.

For all the articles regarding food service workers you'll never see one where workers bring up tips ever.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Quit giving benefits to the lazy!

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So is it just that a lot of people are making way more money on unemployment than they would be from working? The entire service industry is affected.

I read today that McDonalds is apparently offering iPhones to new employees who stay for six months.

 

[Haint]

So is it just that a lot of people are making way more money on unemployment than they would be from working? The entire service industry is affected.

I read today that McDonalds is apparently offering iPhones to new employees who stay for six months.

It's definitely a large contributor. It pays out ~$2400/mo, and is effectively untaxed. The first $10K is completely tax free, anything after $10K only accrues federal income tax (no social security, medicaid, state, or unemployment). Most will wind up getting that federal income tax back (or not paying it at all) on tax returns cause of their low income bracket. Unemployment with the bonus is the equivalent monthly take home of a taxed $40K - $45K salary. Hell, even without the bonus, you'd still come out ahead Vs. working a $10 - 12/hr job (which would be taxed ~25% to federal, state, SS, Med, and Unemp). So yea, you can see why nobody's going to work a retail or restaurant job when they make that much sitting at home. Democrats actually fought hard to try to make it ~$3600/mo, which would have been the equivalent take home of a taxed $60K salary. It's not entirely unemployment though, a lot of people living off those jobs probably moved back in with family (no financial responsibilites) and/or spend their days running seedy side hustles like scalping, camming, and scamming. Certainly this many millions of people didn't move up to white collar jobs that were just waiting to be filled by high school drop outs, alcoholics, addicts, and ex-cons. And I don't say that disparagingly, those demographics genuinely represent a very large percentage of the service industry, empirically.

 

[nush]

I read today that McDonalds is apparently offering iPhones to new employees who stay for six months.

*& meet employment criteria.

That's code for we are going to set the conditions so high you have no fucking chance of us ever giving you the phone. Ever. Sucker.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

They can either raise wages to a level that people are willing to work these shitty jobs for, or they can just keep closing locations because no one wants to put up with these shitty jobs for the pay offered. Capitalism at work.

 

[gradient]

Basic capitalism at play.

They're not just competing with other restaurants, they're competing with all other employers. On pay, working hours, benefits and working conditions. During the crisis a lot of workers in the service industry who would otherwise not have strayed outside of their lane were forced to look for work in other areas. In doing so many found that there were better employment options elsewhere that they would otherwise not have known about and now see that there are more options than they thought they had.

There has been a lot of coverage of the same issue in the UK lately, particularily with regard to Chefs. There's a shortage and many employers are admitting that they're finding that a lot of chefs ended up working in other fields during the lockdown and have since found that they can have a job with equal or better pay and far better hours than what the restaurants are offering. The chefs are choosing work-life balance and leaving the profession.

Many employers have gotten too used to being able to squeeze the bottom (the low paid workers) in order to boost profit margins. Now they need to adapt, because the lockdown has inadvertently led to greater competition in the job market as people have had to broaden their jobs options and now see a greater pool of options available.

 

[RPS37]

Basic capitalism at play.

They're not just competing with other restaurants, they're competing with all other employers. On pay, working hours, benefits and working conditions. During the crisis a lot of workers in the service industry who would otherwise not have strayed outside of their lane were forced to look for work in other areas. In doing so many found that there were better employment options elsewhere that they would otherwise not have known about and now see that there are more options than they thought they had.

There has been a lot of coverage of the same issue in the UK lately, particularily with regard to Chefs. There's a shortage and many employers are admitting that they're finding that a lot of chefs ended up working in other fields during the lockdown and have since found that they can have a job with equal or better pay and far better hours than what the restaurants are offering. The chefs are choosing work-life balance and leaving the profession.

Many employers have gotten too used to being able to squeeze the bottom (the low paid workers) in order to boost profit margins. Now they need to adapt, because the lockdown has inadvertently led to greater competition in the job market as people have had to broaden their jobs options and now see a greater pool of options available.

Thank you.