This is so true and I still like Nintendo games of today. Square and Rare used to be kings as well!
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Retro-GAF unite!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
Can't agree with this. All Nintendo games united on a single platform will make it that apparently how much talent their teams have. If you consider the hypothetical example of combining the Wii U and 3DS output or the Wii and DS output into one machine, it's going to be non-stop great games, no droughts, year in and out. With our without third party devs.
It's true they haven't had a proper Metroid, F-Zero or 64/Galaxy sequel in a while, plus the complaints about the Mario RPGs, but their other releases make up for it and show they aren't slipping.
There are not so good games that pander to small niches in Japan too or series like Tales of that try to cater to the lowest common anime fan.
well, we'll see about that.
I'm definitely not saying they lack talent. they are probably still the best in the business when it comes to releasing great games.
but they haven't released a god tier game since mario galaxy 2 imo. a game that hits on all cylinders and blows me away beyond all expectations. it used to be a fairly regular thing in the nes/snes/n64/gc days, not so much anymore :/
I think most of these are great and some even stand up to Nintendo's best ever games from the past:
Zelda ALBW, LM Dark Moon, Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby Planet Robobot, AC New Leaf, Splatoon, SM 3D World, NSBMU and NSLU, Smash 4, MK8, SM Maker, Pikmin 3, Captain Toad, Woolly World and DK Tropical Freeze are prime Nintendo. And there's Breath of the Wild coming later. All of this points to Nintendo still having that magic touch as a developer.
Of course they had some missteps, just like they always have. I remember well enough the remarks that the inconsistent Gamecube output was proof that Nintendo had lost it and this was when the "Nintendo third party!!" BS started. Luigi's Mansion and Sunshine both fell short of Mario 64 greatness. The GC Star Foxes were both worse than SF64. At launch neither of the GC Zeldas were as well received by fans and critically acclaimed as the N64 Zeldas (GC is where the Zelda "launch hate/LTTP love" cycle started). MK Double Dash got straight up hated on by a good many people. The 3D Pokemons were regarded as mediocre crap far short of the desired true Pokémon RPGs on console. The many Mario spinoffs got negative attention during this time too.
Zelda ALBW, LM Dark Moon, Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby Planet Robobot, AC New Leaf, Splatoon, SM 3D World, NSBMU and NSLU, Smash 4, MK8, SM Maker, Pikmin 3, Captain Toad, Woolly World and DK Tropical Freeze are prime Nintendo. And there's Breath of the Wild coming later. All of this points to Nintendo still having that magic touch as a developer.
Of course they had some missteps, just like they always have. I remember well enough the remarks that the inconsistent Gamecube output was proof that Nintendo had lost it and this was when the "Nintendo third party!!" BS started. Luigi's Mansion and Sunshine both fell short of Mario 64 greatness. The GC Star Foxes were both worse than SF64. At launch neither of the GC Zeldas were as well received by fans and critically acclaimed as the N64 Zeldas (GC is where the Zelda "launch hate/LTTP love" cycle started). MK Double Dash got straight up hated on by a good many people. The 3D Pokemons were regarded as mediocre crap far short of the desired true Pokémon RPGs on console. The many Mario spinoffs got negative attention during this time too.
GC was definitely a step down from the N64 in a lot of ways (Mario, Zelda, Rare)... but I also think we just didn't appreciate the greatness enough at the time.
It also had Metroid Prime, Melee, F-Zero GX and Paper Mario TTYD. 4 of the all time greats right there. Examples of Nintendo firing on all cylinders. People were too blinded by the PS2 at the time to give GC the love it deserved, I think.
You make a lot of great points. I'm not going to argue with most of them because they're pretty spot on.
My reason, however, for analogizing the 8-bit to 16-bit transition to the present day transition from the PS360 era wasn't that 8bit games were somehow broken and needed fixing. I similarly don't think that previous gen games needed fixing.
I just see the 16 bit era as the generation where ideas from the 8bit generation matured and got more refined. That's not to say that 8bit games were lacking in any way. Rather, 16 bit hardware just gave devs a bigger/ better canvas for their concepts to have larger sprites, less sprite flicker, more colors, and more arcade accurate ports in general. Same is true with the current generation. We have better ports from PC with less screen tearing, higher frames per second, and at a higher resolution with less performance issues.
I don't agree that previous gen games are "flawed" for having sub HD resolutions and screen tearing just like I wouldn't say Mega Man 2 is flawed just because it has slowdown and sprite flicker.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Honestly, Nintendo's output on the WiiU is among the best they've ever had, as far as I'm concerned. Like, 3D World is my favorite 3D platformer ever, by a pretty big margin. DKC: TF might be my favorite 2D platformer ever. Yoshi's Wooly World is up there, too. And most of their other stuff has been excellent, too. It's the one current system where I'm consistently having fun.
No lies detected. Wii U's library is fucking amazing. It's a crime against videogames that no on bought it.
It was more of a general statement and not adressed to any NeoGaf poster. Sentiments liek that do exist - hell I still see people butthurt about 2D vs 3D gaming.
It's in French so I don't think it's worth linking to, but I vividly remember reading this guy on a shmup forum saying there are literally no good games released these days and that people who enjoy current games are literally subhumans, etc. Fucking insanity.
That is a good point. I agree and understand the lack of artistry and quality in a lot of indie games is due to economical realities. When I'm saying I'm sick of the whole "aaa vs indie" spiel, I was more thinking of back in 2013/2014, you couldn't have a week pass without someone making walls of text saying indie games are literally the last bastion of quality gaming, etc. I'm not a native speaker and I,m dyspraxic so it's diffuclt to organise my thoughts in a coherent fashion, but basically, what I'm trying to convey is that there's a group of people who seem to enjoy the idea of indie games a bit too much...
I dunno. When I look at the games at the stuff that tops the Media Create charts posted on here, it seems the list dominated by crummy anime tie-ins or skeevy jrpgs/pantsu photographing games half of the time
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Going away from this, I'm wondering if anyone has recent experience using proxy services recently? I'm tempted to go that route to grab some Neo Geo CD games off Yahoo Auctions, but a lot of the reviews I've read posted circa 2016 for many of the "big" sites like Buyee and From Japan are negative.
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, ive largely slept on it but picked up a number of titles ill likely play down the road - havent finished 3D world, Toad's Treasure, Bayo 2, W101 and numerous others. waiting for the right chance to grab kart, smash, maker, splatoon, xeno and a few of the ones you mentioned there on the cheap!
Beer Monkey
Member
Lego City Undercover reissue at $20 ($16 with Prime) coming on August 26!
Don't forget Nintendo Land. That game is just criminally underrated and highly addictive. I've put dozens of hours into it and will continue to do so for years.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
There are, but it's not 98% of the market.
IrishNinja
Member
no lie, i took shit on this site for saying it was in my top 3 of that year, had so much fun with it! i should boot that one back up sometime
Good luck with Nintendo published games!!!
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, i think im waiting to see if they do select/greatest hits stuff...i wanna say ive seen Yoshi and DKR for like $20, they're just not as high on my list at the moment
sixteen-bit
Member
Wii U has Nintendo's best games ever.
NES and SNES were great cuz of 3rd parties.
*sips tea*
NES and SNES were great cuz of 3rd parties.
*sips tea*
Anyone can say it's better than N64, but I agree about SNES, that one is godlike. Hell I might like NES a bit more.wii u's library is really incredible
i'd rank it just below the n64
and gc
and snes
and nes
NormalFish
Banned
SNES has Nintendo's best games, but it's still great because of 3rd parties.
alttp is best
IrishNinja
Member
yeah 16 if you finna drop the mic like that, name some names b
WU is like a platformer's dream i think, but the library feels less...varied, to me?
WU is like a platformer's dream i think, but the library feels less...varied, to me?
The shrinking japanese market is less focused on AAA games compared to US, this is because there 3DS is still (sigh) the dominant platform and very few franchises have the sales potential to support the kind of budget required (not to talk very few japanese publishers are well equipped for such kind of games).
Said that your generalization that in Japan a "smaller crowd people who just seem to have a better taste in games on average" is very subjective and not demonstrable.
What sell in Japan? Sequels with some exceptions (for example Splatoon, Yokai Watch, Minecraft etc.), the same happen in US or Europe (what changes are the sellable franchises although COD and GTA are quite popular in Japan too).
In 2014 they dropped DK Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2 and Smash 4. Not to mention stuff like Hyrule Warriors and Capt Toad TT, etc.
And yet people were too busy playing Shadow of Mordor to care.
I love the WiiU.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
The point I'm trying to get at is that smaller AA games do quite well in Japan. 4mil = smashing success vs 4mil = your're fucked, your studio's going under, RIP in America. That wouldn't be the case if they were focusing on trying to hit 5mil - 10mil targets + scaling budgets with that target as the expectation, and wouldn't even be possible in Japan alone outside of the rare series like Animal Crossing. I'd actually expect that trying to broaden the base far enough to appeal to as many people as possible in Japan wouldn't even be appealing to the small number if akiba otaku losers, it'd be more like appealing to whatever it is that makes Animal Crossing sell to so many women.
I get that that's also on the back of the 3DS being a system behind it's time, but I consider that a good thing TBH. Once the minimum bar for graphics passes into "HD" territory, with the kind of money required for those games, is 4 mil sales for a Monster Hunter game going to be enough? I'm not really sure it would be, unless everything popular on the market sticks to lower budgets designed to sell to the base in Japan. Which could happen? Maybe? I can't envision Japanese game publishers doing anything other than focusing on that one market at this point.
The point I was trying to get to with experimentation is not that all games or even most games or even a large chunk of best selling games are experimental, it's that at that budget range studio's can actually afford to try without it tanking the business if it goes bad. Level 5 made Yokai Watch, and it's done very well, but if it had failed they could have moved on to something else. If Bungie's Destiny had failed? It probably would have taken down Bungie and Activision along with it.
I get what you're saying with "crowd having a better taste in games" being hard to prove, though.
"HD" territory (I'm mean the resolution) won't make a game automatically costly to produce.
It's the quality of the assets, the engine/middleware used and scope of the game (and marketing too) that rise dramatically the costs.
The recent Tales Of games are "HD" games but with PS2/PS3 kind of assets, it's clear they are all budgeted very tightly.
Oh and I can't see MH being unprofitable if it keep selling 4 million units (that is if it doesn't underperform), Capcom isn't that stupid and can keep the budget in check to achieve good profitability.
The future I see for Japan is the following:
1) Most big publishers will adopt Unreal 4 to keep development costs down for the big franchises that can still sell well outside Japan (NamcoBandai and SquareEnix seems to be at the forefront of this behaviour at the moment, Capcom is a mystery with PhantaRay speculated to be in trouble).
Japanese publishers are going to pray that NX will be a big success in Japan and that Unreal 4 can support it.
2) Smaller publishers/developers will keep producing games for dedicated gaming devices but targeting a specific niche and with low budgets (read upressed PS2/PS3 games such as Tales Of or Falcom/Gust games).
3) Most developers (big or small) will try ventures where ROI is high (read: Mobile).
Oh I also think we will see more japanese games on PC (on Steam).
This is more a talk for Media Create threads though, you should post there.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Alright, so... I gave the retro game room some thought, figured out exactly what stuff I want, and priced it out.
It's... gonna be some money. But it's worth it, right? A games room, particularly for retro games, is something that's always stuck out in my mind as being something worthwhile. Like, I'll hook stuff up in my living room right now, but that's not really the place for it. It doesn't feel right, because that's the classy room for grown-ups. Maybe I'm just telling myself what I want to hear, but a dedicated space for games would just give you a totally different vibe when you're in there playing stuff. I mean, even if I'm wrong, this is going to be a killer setup for basically anything, but uh... yeah.
It's... gonna be some money. But it's worth it, right? A games room, particularly for retro games, is something that's always stuck out in my mind as being something worthwhile. Like, I'll hook stuff up in my living room right now, but that's not really the place for it. It doesn't feel right, because that's the classy room for grown-ups. Maybe I'm just telling myself what I want to hear, but a dedicated space for games would just give you a totally different vibe when you're in there playing stuff. I mean, even if I'm wrong, this is going to be a killer setup for basically anything, but uh... yeah.
RadarScope1
Member
I've had to give up on a room. I have a space in my basement. Not what I'd pictured years ago but it's better than having everything in storage. At least I can play the games.
Flizzzipper
Member
I didn't price anything out when I did mine, just bought stuff as I went. Hell, I'm still buying stuff. It is nice having a dedicated room like you say. You can keep your living room normal. I'm probably in my game room 90% of the time when I'm at home now. I knew I would be so I chose a room that had three windows and went with a white aesthetic. You deal with some glare during the day but it's worth it for the atmosphere if you are in there a lot.
D.Lo
Member
Chill Penguin
Member
They're very polished games, but not the industry shaking, revolutionary games Nintendo used to be known for (Mario 64, OOT). Their games are just kind of safe and not ambitious nowadays. Hopefully that changes with NX. I'm ready for some of that real Nintendo magic.
Flizzzipper
Member
Did you make it past ten minutes this time? Definitely the best Dracula game on Sega CD!
Yup, made it to the Dracula boss fight in level 2. I'll most likely post some more impressions in the Sega CD thread tomorrow.
Fabthegnome
Member
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Ratio switching runs on a different pin.
Fabthegnome
Member
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To be fair GM is really for CRT monitors, the only thing you'll gain using a gsync monitor is correct refresh rates (Midway, Irem, Tatio etc games) no audio hiccups, no screen tearing, reduced input lag and smooth scrolling.
If using anything other than a CRT display you dont need to bother with the hacked windows display drivers and can just download and play like any version of mame, just make sure you set the correct settings in the ini file
I meant that I'd be switching over from using MAME on my Gsync monitor to using it on a CRT display, yeah. As it stands, Gsync already gives me correct refresh rates, no tearing, no lag, and all the smooth scrolling that brings. The main thing to gain would be the better image that a CRT brings for low-res games in their native resolution.
So much this.
Its been interesting to follow this discussion, and while I do like some modern games, what they all have in common, is that they share those design sensibilities that can be called "old-school" or retro today, by focusing on making interesting and challenging gameplay in great levels over presentation and a d-level movie. Games like Dark Souls and most Nintendo-games do this, just as Super Metroid and Castlevania 3 did. But most AAA-games chase other objectives, objectives that i am just not as interested in.
Edit: About Nintendo, I actually think they might be better than ever these days, with their Gamecube-output imo being their worst (only Prime really blowing me away). They just produce so much quality content on both plattforms, and their absolute best games - like 3D World - are as good as anything they have put out ever imo.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Hmm... there's gonna be some lead time on the speakers for this old-school setup since they hand build them, so maybe I should get that order in now. Retro game setup: coming this October. Or November.
Anyway, you know what's cool about finally having the OSSC and having it set up and not having to tinker with it? For the first time in like... 8 years, I'm actually playing these retro games. Not just buying 'em, not just playing them for a few minutes or experimenting with how they look. I'm sitting down, playing the shit out of them, and really getting all completionist with them. Unsurprisingly, it's really, really fun.
Anyway, you know what's cool about finally having the OSSC and having it set up and not having to tinker with it? For the first time in like... 8 years, I'm actually playing these retro games. Not just buying 'em, not just playing them for a few minutes or experimenting with how they look. I'm sitting down, playing the shit out of them, and really getting all completionist with them. Unsurprisingly, it's really, really fun.
Flizzzipper
Member
I've had the exact same reaction after I got my framemeister. I've been playing the hell out of games that have been sitting on my shelf for years. I even started using backloggery.
Crossposting from the Saturn thread, with pics I took especially for you, sir.
(Dragon Ball Z Idainaru Dragon Ball Densetsu, Decathlete and The Story of Thor 2)
(Street Fighter: Real Battle on Film, Panzer Dragoon I & II, Rabbit and Sonic Council)
(Duke Nukem 3D)
My Saturn is getting some love!
Hit up my neighborhood Barnes & Noble the other night and came across SEGA Archive.
It's from Retro Gamer, and most (all?) of the content is compiled from the regular magazine. I'm a regular reader of Retro Gamer, but it's nice to have the SEGA stuff collected in a volume.
Just wish these things weren't so darned expensive! lol