Yes, I played that on there. It's fine.
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Retro-GAF unite!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
D.Lo
Member
It is not cycle perfect emulation so yes, there is a difference.
No human would be able to detect any minute imperfections there would be. I know plenty of hardcore arcade pcb collectors who have put their boards in storage as in their words they is no perceivable difference now between pcb and groovymame and use groovemame solely.
Im talking about collectors who can 1cc games and can still do the same on Groovemame, without needing to change their muscle memory for the games in question
Im talking about collectors who can 1cc games and can still do the same on Groovemame, without needing to change their muscle memory for the games in question
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I find problems even in cycle accurate emulators. Audio hitches, games just crashing randomly due to bugs, input lag, frame sync issues between native frame-rate and monitor rate. It's even worse in non-cycle accurate emulators.
There are even just some stuff that isn't well enough understood despite years of work trying to emulate. Just take a look at any Yamaha FM synthesis real hardware audio vs emulation on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc5WABqwiVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hPVwjZ6bNM
There are even just some stuff that isn't well enough understood despite years of work trying to emulate. Just take a look at any Yamaha FM synthesis real hardware audio vs emulation on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc5WABqwiVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hPVwjZ6bNM
Yeah the joy of Groovymame & CRT Emudriver is its designed to be used with arcade monitors, so there is no input lag, audio skipping, screen tearing etc
That's true, but it also doesn't mean the emulator and individual games are all perfect. Many are buggy and such warnings even come up when you boot up a game known to have problems. I think this is a great example of how awesome GroovyMAME can be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXF7wT7Hc60
But still you can see it quickly goes out of sync with the original.
Yeah Cave games (SH3 driver) are known to have issues with the actual slowdown that happens on the real pcb, it handles it differently on MAME than the arcade board....or though i think thats now been fixed in MAME since that video was made
What's wrong with the PAL version? 50hz only?
I think the bottom line is, there's certain people who prefer not to play on emulators if it can be avoided, even if the emulation is amazing. You won't get through to those people even by explaining that there is a cycle accurate emulator out there.
I know, because I'm definitely one of those people. I've been playing on emulators for years, but now that I'm older and can afford it, I like to own the real thing. It's really fun to feel the hardware in your hands and I enjoy the ritual of putting a real cart in real hardware and flipping a real physical switch to see it power onto your screen without any Windows menus or front end software intervening.
It's like seeing a live concert or something vs hearing a perfect mastering of that concert that sounds exactly the same. It's somehow less exciting when it's a recording.
The same is true (I feel) when it comes to emulating hardware.
Shadow Hog
Member
The emulated sound in the first video sounds way better than the actual console. Crisper, less muffled, but not obviously far enough from the "correct" sound so as to be distracting. He doesn't explain at all why he seems to think it's a bit "[censored]" (presumably "shit"), either, just states that it is.
That second video, though, hoo boy. Can't say as the accurate OPL3 version shown at the end is a particularly pleasant way to listen to "Running From Evil" either, but that emulated version is painful. Much more informative as to what went wrong, too.
Worse, it's the 60Hz version with one every six frame removed to make it 50Hz => stutter.
Ah I see. The worst kind of 50hz. Haven't played my copy in a while so I didn't remember that. That's a shame.
RadarScope1
Member
Hear, hear!
IrishNinja
Member
yeah, im excited about that FPGA project but i can agree with that live vs master recording of it analogy, that's actually pretty good
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I'll drink to that.
davidwhangchoi
Member
Beer Monkey
Member
Personally, as long as I'm playing on a CRT with a really faithful, fast emulator, I regularly forget I'm not on real hardware. As an example, I'm completely happy playing Neo Geo on a Wii with a CRT. Likewise with many NES and SNES games on the Wii and CRT with my official Super Famicom controller for Wii.
On the other hand, I love my real hardware. I own real consoles and handhelds for all my favorite systems, and a growing pile of CRT monitors.
The 'live versus master tape' analogy I do feel with substandard emulation platforms. A prime example would be a RetroPi on a flat screen HDTV. There's no amount of tweaking and modding that can make it feel as responsive as the real thing.
On the other hand, I love my real hardware. I own real consoles and handhelds for all my favorite systems, and a growing pile of CRT monitors.
The 'live versus master tape' analogy I do feel with substandard emulation platforms. A prime example would be a RetroPi on a flat screen HDTV. There's no amount of tweaking and modding that can make it feel as responsive as the real thing.
crosspost from the snes thread
had some time to really try out the digital audio output on my SNES Jr earlier - never really had the chance before apart from when I first installed it as the cable I had before was too damn short.
it's pretty amazing. so much extra clarity, fantastic bass and no noise whatsoever. Some people may dislike just how clean it sounds, but I think it's a considerable improvement. And my Sony 5.1 receiver has no issues with the signal at all.
I've taken a recording of the opening of Kirby Dreamland 3, one file is of the analog output and one is of the optical:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B80RJqyVtV9DQk1nd0ctOWJmTWs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B80RJqyVtV9Da0tNRVZFYVF5aGM
and here's a track from Chrono Trigger, again captured directly from the SNES via optical out:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B80RJqyVtV9DbWVaR3hTNEFBY0U
had some time to really try out the digital audio output on my SNES Jr earlier - never really had the chance before apart from when I first installed it as the cable I had before was too damn short.
it's pretty amazing. so much extra clarity, fantastic bass and no noise whatsoever. Some people may dislike just how clean it sounds, but I think it's a considerable improvement. And my Sony 5.1 receiver has no issues with the signal at all.
I've taken a recording of the opening of Kirby Dreamland 3, one file is of the analog output and one is of the optical:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B80RJqyVtV9DQk1nd0ctOWJmTWs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B80RJqyVtV9Da0tNRVZFYVF5aGM
and here's a track from Chrono Trigger, again captured directly from the SNES via optical out:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B80RJqyVtV9DbWVaR3hTNEFBY0U
D.Lo
Member
I like the concert metaphor because is an approximation of the real thing. It is not the real thing and there is not 'no diferrence'. With great effort and care there may be only small differences left, but while the game ROM may be a 1:1 digital copy, it is an approximation of the hardware behaviour.
Emulation can have advantages over the original, just like recordings of live events can. Some concert videos that have multiple high res cameras moving around the band while they play. Some even allow you to change camera angle at will. You can't see that being a regular audience member, but nobody would pretend it's the same as being there. Similarly save states etc let you see more of certain games.
I think of it like a print of a great painting. They come in a variety of qualities (rasberry Pi = compressed low res jpeg, Wii VC to CRT = 600dpi professional print). But no print is a painting.
davidwhangchoi
Member
pretty good points about advantages recordings of live events/multiple camera angles.
RadarScope1
Member
Yet another great analogy. These two posts should be in the OP!
This concert-analogy is great, never thought about, but definitely using that next time I have people over stunned by my huge collection.
RadarScope1
Member
So, I want a 240p t-shirt. Just like a big "240p" printed on the front, with fat scan lines.
IrishNinja
Member
^might as well make it a jersey
yeah but its danganronpa time ya know
anyhow, posted in the snes thread - but you guys may be interested in this too:
secret of the forest
battle with magus
battle 1
battle 2
these are all recorded directly from the digital output of my SNES (optical output mod, as explained above). let me know what you guys think.
entremet
Member
I'd totally wear something like that haha
Watching the Ikaruga Appreciated DVD last night reminded me of how little I actually care for the game. I don't like the black/white polarity mechanic. There's an abundance of blue/white and red/black on the screen much of the time, giving it a sense of sameness from start to finish. It's not a bad game, but it really isn't my cup of tea. Conversely, I absolutely adore Radiant Silvergun, with its multitude of weapons, diverse boss encounters, and wider color palette. RS is much more interesting to look at and play to me.
So much agreed. There's a tangible component to using actual hardware that greatly contributes to my experience of playing retro games. I'm even sometimes left feeling somewhat dissatisfied with playing games on the Wii Virtual Console.
So much agreed. There's a tangible component to using actual hardware that greatly contributes to my experience of playing retro games. I'm even sometimes left feeling somewhat dissatisfied with playing games on the Wii Virtual Console.
davidwhangchoi
Member
hey guys, i just got back from a retro arcade.
arcade thread is so dead so here's a few pics:
arcade thread is so dead so here's a few pics:
RadarScope1
Member
There's pretty great classic arcade in my town called 1984. I really love it, but they tend to stick to the theme described by their name -- all the games are golden era games, so nothing newer than about 84/85.
Part one of my latest, mixed retro pick-up:
I already owned Akumajo Dracula and SF Collection, but I found copies in way better conditions, and also complete with spine and regcard, plus all the extra papers originally included (that's what I try to go for, since I started collecting again). Puyo Puyo 4 and Wild Ambition, on the other hand, are minor additions to my collection, yet games I was looking for since quite a while. Grand Chaser and URA were cheap and brand new, basically... Grabbed them both pretty much for curiosity's sake (well, to be honest, I don't hate the Toh Shin Den series either...).
Part two is expected to arrive next week.
I already owned Akumajo Dracula and SF Collection, but I found copies in way better conditions, and also complete with spine and regcard, plus all the extra papers originally included (that's what I try to go for, since I started collecting again). Puyo Puyo 4 and Wild Ambition, on the other hand, are minor additions to my collection, yet games I was looking for since quite a while. Grand Chaser and URA were cheap and brand new, basically... Grabbed them both pretty much for curiosity's sake (well, to be honest, I don't hate the Toh Shin Den series either...).
Part two is expected to arrive next week.
sixteen-bit
Member
How's Puyo Puyo 4 compared to 2 and 3?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
It's good, has some neat new mechanics like the characters each get magic moves, and the story mode is more interesting than the previous games.
But it's overpriced, it had really low sales back in the day, and now every version goes for north of $30-$40, vs like $1 to $3 for Sun.
Exactly. I wanted to have it because apparently the DC version is the best one, the one where all the new little additions - such as the higher resolution graphics, the anime artstyle etc - better shine, compared to the other ports.
That said - even though I didn't pay too much for my copy - it's true that you can buy equally entertaining Puyo Puyo games, saving up quite alot of money.
That said - even though I didn't pay too much for my copy - it's true that you can buy equally entertaining Puyo Puyo games, saving up quite alot of money.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Is the DC version 480p? I really like the way the 240p Puyo Puyo games work, I think GameCube on the Puyos start to look weird. Is it like that on DC?
Unfortunately, I can't test it, as I don't own a Toro or any other similar device, but according to the back of the case, the game indeed supports the VGA Box. That said, I think I know what you mean and - in my opinion - this is a legit, classic Puyo Puyo, in terms of artsyle and game graphics.
Jeez, seems every time I look away Saturn stuff gets more and more crazy expensive. As far as I can guess, it's the usual thing with Saturn 2D ports dropping fewer frames of animation than their PS1 counterparts. I wonder if the Saturn version is the best (non-arcade) way to play original SF2, SF2CE, and SF2T? Can anyone else weigh in on this?
I think the Dreamcast version is widely considered the most arcade accurate, but it has some visual distortion.
Edit: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Game_Versions
Edit: Ah, forgot there was a turbo for the original. =]
that's super turbo, not turbo aka hyper fighting
and if you thought capcom generations 5 was expensive, don't even try to look up how much super turbo for dreamcast goes for. jesus fuck.
I can confirm it's 480p. Personally, I didn't think much of this game and I loved Kirby's Avalanche. The new mechanics make it feel less balanced. I like just straight puyo in comparison. The giant puyos make the game feel less pure.
sixteen-bit
Member
that's super turbo, not turbo aka hyper fighting
and if you thought capcom generations 5 was expensive, don't even try to look up how much super turbo for dreamcast goes for. jesus fuck.
wasn't there someone in this thread collecting every port of SF2? I wonder how that went.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Jealous. There's only one real "arcade" around these parts and it's a Barcade in New Orleans. It's difficult to get to and park being in the city and even then half of the cabinets have some sort of issue.
atomic moth
Member
Yeah it's in Douchebag Central also. They do have those sit down Mario Karts though.
I know a guy further out east (Arabi) who, after Katrina, bought the abandoned house next to him and turned the entire place into an arcade. He's got about 50 classic machines in there, fully restored, and he's filled the place up. He sold me a cabinet because he doesn't have any more room left. Nice guy, but he doesn't really let general public in to play.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Last time I was in there the Mario Kart units were gone, replaced with Cruis'N World, I believe.