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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

LONDON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - Sony (6758.T) must face a mass lawsuit worth up to 6.3 billion pounds ($7.9 billion) over claims the PlayStation maker abused its dominant position leading to unfair prices for customers, a London tribunal ruled on Tuesday.

Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) was sued last year on behalf of nearly nine million people in the United Kingdom who had bought digital games or add-on content through Sony's PlayStation Store.

Alex Neill, a consumer advocate who has worked on previous campaigns, is bringing the case against Sony. She says the company abused its dominant position by requiring digital games and add-ons to be bought and sold only via the PlayStation Store, which charges a 30% commission to developers and publishers.

The claim alleges customers have therefore paid higher prices for games and add-on content than they would have done.

Sony's lawyers argued the case was "flawed from start to finish" and said it should be thrown out.

The Competition Appeal Tribunal ruled that Neill's case could continue, though it said people who had made PlayStation Store purchases after the case was filed in 2022 should be removed from the proposed claimant class.

Neill said in a statement that Tuesday's ruling was "the first step in ensuring consumers get back what they're owed". Sony did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Sony facing $7.9 bln mass lawsuit over PlayStation Store prices

Sony must face a mass lawsuit worth up to 6.3 billion pounds ($7.9 billion) over claims the PlayStation maker abused its dominant position leading to unfair prices for customers, a London tribunal ruled on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

The lawsuit is moving forward.

And apparently CMA is supporting it, supposedly.

 

[NickFire]

Amend that complaint and include claims for the new cost of PS+ essential. Absolute rip off and kind of forced on us mid generation because of their dominant position.

 

[Mr Moose]

It's that stupid shit from last year. Video game ambulance chasers.

 

[GHG]

What a waste of tax payer pounds.

#notMyTaxPayerPounds

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[AV]

nine million people in the United Kingdom who had bought digital games or add-on content

You just know these people aren't buying digital-only indies.

Should've got a disc drive and gone down to CEX, bro.

 

[Spyxos]

Just wanted to post it. As always you are faster

 

[Generic]

They are right. In my country Playstation games cost more than Xbox and PC games. Also they don't allow Genshin Impact players to buy currency outside the Playstation Store.

 

[DonF]

They only have a case if a game/add on / dlc was pricier on psn over steam/Xbox/green man...etc and that's not the case. What a stupid case.

 

[Topher]

They are right. In my country Playstation games cost more than Xbox and PC games. Also they don't allow Genshin Impact players to buy currency outside the Playstation Store.

What is your country?

 

[sendit]

Amend that complaint and include claims for the new cost of Netflix. Absolute rip off and kind of forced on us mid generation because of their dominant position.

Amend that complaint and include claims for the new cost of Amazon Prime. Absolute rip off and kind of forced on us mid generation because of their dominant position.

Amend that complaint and include claims for the new cost of Game pass. Absolute rip off and kind of forced on us mid generation because of their dominant position.

The list goes on. You should be a lawyer.

 

[Diddy X]

You can't even take advantage of your leader privileges anymore.

 

[coffinbirth]

They only have a case if a game/add on / dlc was pricier on psn over steam/Xbox/green man...etc and that's not the case. What a stupid case.

That's not the case? You sure about that?

 

[Topher]

You should be a lawyer.

He is

 

[adamsapple]

Again?

I swear they had one over the same thing a few months ago too.

 

[Kilau]

I think we had this lawsuit already but I can’t find it at this moment.

 

[Freeman76]

LEts hope it goes through and they get walloped, greedy cunts

 

[skit_data]

Still a better deal than Bungie

 

[Warablo]

I sorta saw this coming when they started removing PSN currency from all platforms.

 

[GHG]

The list goes on. You should be a lawyer.

"I don't like the price of something, therefore it deserves a lawsuit".

That's not the case? You sure about that?

I terms of RRP's? He's correct.

The issue that is highlighted in the OP is the fact that Playstation customers don't have the option of getting keys for games from 3rd party storefronts, the pricing itself isn't the problem here.

 

[Mr Moose]

Again?

I swear they had one over the same thing a few months ago too.

It was last year.

Drama - Sony is being sued for £5bn

https://news.sky.com/story/sony-playstation-being-sued-for-5-billion-amid-claims-it-ripped-off-nine-million-consumers-12678949 Apparently charging 30% commission for sales on PlayStation store is a ripoff and an abuse of their position.

www.neogaf.com

 

[bitbydeath]

Thought this was going to be about the insane price increase for games.

Throw this out and start over.

 

[Punished Miku]

I think all consoles should be forced to allow keys sold at other digital stores. The digital future is already here. A multibillion dollar industry will literally go through one store. At first glance this seems like a great lawsuit.

 

[Mownoc]

"She says the company abused its dominant position by requiring digital games and add-ons to be bought and sold only via the PlayStation Store, which charges a 30% commission to developers and publishers."

You don't need to be dominant to do that. Xbox does the exact same thing!

But yeah, stupid lawsuit that isn't going anywhere. This is standard across the entire games industry. PlayStation, Nintendo, Xbox, Steam and it won't be allowed to go anywhere.

 

[Topher]

"Neill said in a statement that Tuesday's ruling was "the first step in ensuring consumers get back what they're owed". "

Right. "Consumers" will get back a few bucks each while the lawyers rake in millions.

 

[King Dazzar]

The issue that is highlighted in the OP is the fact that Playstation customers don't have the option of getting keys for games from 3rd party storefronts, the pricing itself isn't the problem here.

Yep, its the lack of options needs sorting. I would like them to offer a decent refund policy too. Something similar to Steam would be great and way over due.

 

[GHG]

But yeah, stupid lawsuit that isn't going anywhere. This is standard across the entire games industry. PlayStation, Nintendo, Xbox, Steam and it won't be allowed to go anywhere.

But it's not. With Steam you can purchase pretty much every game sold on the platform without actually doing so on their storefront.

Game deals - Find video games on sale - GG.deals

Compare prices of video games from almost 60 stores, find the best game deals online. CD keys for all PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo Switch and PC games on the market at the best price!

gg.deals

That isn't the case on Playstation and people should welcome the opportunity to have more options when it comes to how and where they purchase their digital games.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I think all consoles should be forced to allow keys sold at other digital stores. The digital future is already here. A multibillion dollar industry will literally go through one store. At first glance this seems like a great lawsuit.

100% with you on this. As much as I love physical the all digital future is inevitable on console and there's no world where platform holders having all the means of distribution is good for the consumer.

 

[King Dazzar]

I think all consoles should be forced to allow keys sold at other digital stores. The digital future is already here. A multibillion dollar industry will literally go through one store. At first glance this seems like a great lawsuit.

I agree. For the UK I can do that to some extent with Xbox, though still limited. But the only flexibility for PlayStation. Is shopping around for gift cards.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Can't sympathize with people that lock themselves to a digital storefront in a walled garden because "too much clutter, can't be bothered to get up and swap discs, physical media is dead".

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

I wish I could "like" this thread twice.

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

Right. "Consumers" will get back a few bucks each while the lawyers rake in mimillions..

Okay but the story doesn't stop there. It's about what happens after that that matters

 

[demigod]

What is your country?

Something tells me this dude lives in Germany, first name starts with an R, last name starts with an F.

 

[Spukc]

Good
Fuck
Em

And every other digital store

 

[rofif]

I think Essential should either be free or something like 1$ monthly and should have NO free games or free stuff. Just online and maybe cloud saves + ps+ discounts.
Other tiers are too expensive.
If You want online in souls, bb or elden ring, You otta pay up for PS+ essential and this is just wrong

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

LEts hope it goes through and they get walloped, greedy cunts

Shows people know fuck all about these things.

The cut they're referring too that would in theory allow developers/publishers to have lower prices on content is the reason PlayStation can invest in content at all. And this is the same for Nintendo and Microsoft.

The cut that manufacturers historically took under SEGA and Nintendo meant developers got closer to 30% back than the 70% they get now. It was even worse because they controlled manufacturing of the cartridges also so developers couldn't try and source cheaper parts to make games cheaper to make.

Sony dropped this fee to 30% with the PlayStation and CD format which made developers a tonne of money and even meant that a game that sold 250,000 copies could be very profitable based on average development costs and team sizes at the time.

I haven't bought this argument from the beginning. Sony didn't make PlayStation to allow Microsoft to put Gamepass and the Windows Store on it, or the Nintendo e-shop, or Ubisoft+ or EA Access or the epic store or steam or GOG etc. and sell their content cheaper, thereby undercutting the platform owner. The very person that allowed you to make that money. Just because Steam can go as low as 10% doesn't mean Sony should allow everyone to have their stores and content for sale on their platform at a cheaper price because they bypass the 30% cut somehow.

This isn't a dominant leader thing either, Nintendo and Microsoft do the same. SEGA did the same before leaving the market. Google and Apple charge 30%.

If the console manufacturers had to allow companies to release their own stores or remove the 30% cut from all third party content and transactions, there would be no point in making consoles full stop. There is not enough profit in Sony first party to allow for the investment PlayStation needs.

Prices globally are very different for very different reasons. £70 is $85 or ¥13,000 JPY. Look at it like that and the UK gets the shit end of the stick. Hell this is one of the many reasons I prefer physical. Apart from certain things I can get my games from many retailers and they can be competitive there.

Microsoft are already removing major third party content from PlayStation in dribs and drabs. You start taking third party revenue away from everyone? You're going to create a huge mess. I have no issues with paying the price for something if I think the cost is justified. If not I just don't pay it. If I cant get what I want in one place I can always go to another. There's competition out there and I'm not forced to buy that product. You can wait till it's on sale. These download keys and codes have already been proven in many ways to be obtained illegally. You'd make a bigger problem from an existing problem.

Sony losing this court case would be an astronomical legal precedent because if Microsoft and Nintendo have to follow suit you'll see a real negative impact in the industry. As I say, Sony reduced the cut to 30% when they came into the industry in 1994 and it's been commonplace in many industries since. This would be a real can of worms.

 

[demigod]

But it's not. With Steam you can purchase pretty much every game sold on the platform without actually doing so on their storefront.

Game deals - Find video games on sale - GG.deals

Compare prices of video games from almost 60 stores, find the best game deals online. CD keys for all PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo Switch and PC games on the market at the best price!

gg.deals

That isn't the case on Playstation and people should welcome the opportunity to have more options when it comes to how and where they purchase their digital games.

Unlike Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo, Steam doesn’t have a physical presence in retail stores. Retailers would be up in arms if digital storefronts undercut them. Hell they got bent over with Best Buy’s gamer pass that they had to get rid of.

 

[NEbeast]

Nothing wrong with more options. If other platforms offer codes outside of their own storefront then Sony should too. I doubt this goes anywhere tbh. At least this has more chance than the gamers vs MS joke. The lawyers must these types of lawsuit.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I got an email that I was part of a Cruncyroll class action thing. I have not looked into it but I still have the email.

 

[GHG]

Unlike Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo, Steam doesn’t have a physical presence in retail stores. Retailers would be up in arms if digital storefronts undercut them. Hell they got bent over with Best Buy’s gamer pass that they had to get rid of.

It's not Sony's job to protect retailers though.

Digital game prices should be just as price sensitive as physical games are.

 

[graywolf323]

It's not Sony's job to protect retailers though.

Digital game prices should be just as price sensitive as physical games are.

I don’t have any real dog in this fight but that doesn’t really make sense

the reason we see more price sensitivity as it were from physical games is because they take up space, you get clearances because retailers are just trying to get the games off their shelves/out of their warehouses

 

[midnightAI]

Their Claims:

8. By way of summary, the PCR alleges that, due to restrictive terms and conditions and/or technical restraints imposed by Sony:
(1) Sony does not permit other third-party operating systems to be used on PlayStations or other third-party applications to be used to enable consumers to play games.
(2) Digital games for use on the PlayStation can only be sold and purchased through the PlayStation Store.
(3) Associated add-on content can, with limited exceptions, likewise only be sold and purchased through the PlayStation Store.
(4) Sony charges developers a commission on all purchases of games and add-on content made through the PlayStation Store which has largely been set at 30% [of the price paid by the consumer].
(5) As a result, game developers and publishers wishing to sell digital games to PlayStation users are compelled to sell via the PlayStation Store; and PlayStation users wishing to purchase digital games have no alternative but to purchase them on the PlayStation Store. Similarly, add-on content must, with limited exceptions, be sold and purchased via the PlayStation Store.

9. The PCR pleads that Sony is dominant in a variety of related markets, including:
(1) The gaming console market, which is said to comprise PlayStation and Microsoft’s Xbox.
(2) The market for PlayStation system software, in respect of which it is said that Sony holds a monopoly.
(3) The market for the distribution of digital PlayStation games, in respect of which it is said that Sony holds a monopoly.
(4) The market for the distribution of add-on content for PlayStation games, in respect of which it is said that Sony holds a near monopoly.
(5) The PCR alleges that Sony has abused its dominant position by:
(i) Imposing an exclusive dealing obligation in the form of digital distribution restrictions which deprive or restrict Sony’s customers from accessing alternative sources of digital games and in-game content and which foreclose actual and/or potential competition from other distributors (the “exclusive dealing claim”).
(ii) Tying Sony’s own electronic store for digital games and in-game content to the sale of PlayStation consoles and/or the PlayStation system software, foreclosing competition (the “tying claim”).
(iii) Imposing excessive and unfair prices for the distribution of third party published digital games and in-game content and for the supply of digital games and in-game content which Sony has developed itself (the “excessive pricing claim”).

10. The PCR argues that Sony is the PlayStation digital game user’s single essential trading partner for all digital game purchases and the vast majority of add-on content purchases. The PCR alleges that Sony has exploited that market, by setting excessive and unfair commissions and selling prices which bear no relationship to the costs of providing the services in question.
11. The claims are brought under section 18 of the CA 1998 and Article 102 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (“TFEU”). The PCR says that PlayStation users have paid higher prices for purchases of digital PlayStation games and add-on content than they would have done under circumstances of normal and effective competition. The PCR’s preliminary estimate of the aggregate losses suffered by the proposed class members is between £0.6 billion and £5 billion (excluding interest).

Their first point (8.1) in particular is interesting, do they expect Sony to allow third party operating systems on PS5 so that it will suddenly be able to play PC/Linux?Mac games or something?

 

[Mownoc]

But it's not. With Steam you can purchase pretty much every game sold on the platform without actually doing so on their storefront.

Game deals - Find video games on sale - GG.deals

Compare prices of video games from almost 60 stores, find the best game deals online. CD keys for all PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo Switch and PC games on the market at the best price!

gg.deals

That isn't the case on Playstation and people should welcome the opportunity to have more options when it comes to how and where they purchase their digital games.

There are games you can buy digital codes for PSN from different retailers too. There were even playstation humble bundles in the past so it must be possible in some form also, it just isn't done regularly like with steam. But just like steam it is locked to their ecosystem and they take a cut. Steam doesn't let developers generate unlimited keys and sell them on a third party site without taking their cut too.

 

[Spukc]

Shows people know fuck all about these things.

The cut they're referring too that would in theory allow developers/publishers to have lower prices on content is the reason PlayStation can invest in content at all. And this is the same for Nintendo and Microsoft.

The cut that manufacturers historically took under SEGA and Nintendo meant developers got closer to 30% back than the 70% they get now. It was even worse because they controlled manufacturing of the cartridges also so developers couldn't try and source cheaper parts to make games cheaper to make.

Sony dropped this fee to 30% with the PlayStation and CD format which made developers a tonne of money and even meant that a game that sold 250,000 copies could be very profitable based on average development costs and team sizes at the time.

I haven't bought this argument from the beginning. Sony didn't make PlayStation to allow Microsoft to put Gamepass and the Windows Store on it, or the Nintendo e-shop, or Ubisoft+ or EA Access or the epic store or steam or GOG etc. and sell their content cheaper, thereby undercutting the platform owner. The very person that allowed you to make that money. Just because Steam can go as low as 10% doesn't mean Sony should allow everyone to have their stores and content for sale on their platform at a cheaper price because they bypass the 30% cut somehow.

This isn't a dominant leader thing either, Nintendo and Microsoft do the same. SEGA did the same before leaving the market. Google and Apple charge 30%.

If the console manufacturers had to allow companies to release their own stores or remove the 30% cut from all third party content and transactions, there would be no point in making consoles full stop. There is not enough profit in Sony first party to allow for the investment PlayStation needs.

Prices globally are very different for very different reasons. £70 is $85 or ¥13,000 JPY. Look at it like that and the UK gets the shit end of the stick. Hell this is one of the many reasons I prefer physical. Apart from certain things I can get my games from many retailers and they can be competitive there.

Microsoft are already removing major third party content from PlayStation in dribs and drabs. You start taking third party revenue away from everyone? You're going to create a huge mess. I have no issues with paying the price for something if I think the cost is justified. If not I just don't pay it. If I cant get what I want in one place I can always go to another. There's competition out there and I'm not forced to buy that product. You can wait till it's on sale. These download keys and codes have already been proven in many ways to be obtained illegally. You'd make a bigger problem from an existing problem.

Sony losing this court case would be an astronomical legal precedent because if Microsoft and Nintendo have to follow suit you'll see a real negative impact in the industry. As I say, Sony reduced the cut to 30% when they came into the industry in 1994 and it's been commonplace in many industries since. This would be a real can of worms.

Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Topher]

I agree. For the UK I can do that to some extent with Xbox, though still limited. But the only flexibility for PlayStation. Is shopping around for gift cards.

What is it you can do with Xbox outside of buying gift cards for specific games?

I don’t have any real dog in this fight but that doesn’t really make sense

the reason we see more price sensitivity as it were from physical games is because they take up space, you get clearances because retailers are just trying to get the games off their shelves/out of their warehouses

And there is money tied up in real inventory. More pressure to sell physical stock that will never affect digital.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hey if you can't see the forest through the trees don't think I'm a prisoner.

 

[Fafalada]

Their first point (8.1) in particular is interesting, do they expect Sony to allow third party operating systems on PS5 so that it will suddenly be able to play PC/Line?Mac games or something?

Well it's like the lawsuit Apple lost against Epic (and Google still facing). One can argue consoles are computers too - so yea, if this got any traction, we could be looking at the end of consoles in traditional sense.

What is it you can do with Xbox outside of buying gift cards for specific games?

I am not sure the lawsuit claims dating back to 2016 would quite work if that excuse applied. PSN game gift cards were still sold from 3rd party resellers back then too - I forgot when we lost those - but I was buying PSN DD games (and other cards) from Amazon a fair bit in the last decade.

 

[King Dazzar]

What is it you can do with Xbox outside of buying gift cards for specific games?

Not a huge difference anymore. But I can still get the occasional game key else where on other digital store fronts. Though its very limited too and getting more so as time goes on. For PlayStation bar a couple of bundle games its pretty much fully locked down.

 

[midnightAI]

Well it's like the lawsuit Apple lost against Epic (and Google still facing). One can argue consoles are computers too - so yea, if this got any traction, we could be looking at the end of consoles in traditional sense.

Exactly, I did expand on my post but decided to not post it, but I essentially said if this wins out then there is nothing stopping them going after Microsoft and Nintendo (even though they say the console market is only Sony and Microsoft)

Mobile phones are computers too, so where would that leave Google and Apple?

 

[Topher]

Okay but the story doesn't stop there. It's about what happens after that that matters

What will happen after that?