By not buying 3rd party titles, you're punishing 3rd party developers, not Sony.
Dutch consumer foundation 'Massaschade & Consument' starts class action lawsuit against Sony over PlayStation Store prices
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
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By not buying 3rd party titles, you're punishing 3rd party developers, not Sony.
StueyDuck
Member
punish em all, the game industry needs a dire wake up call.
This has been very telling lately and it's annoying.
Physical versions of games regularly go on sale for much cheaper than they ever do digitally. For example, the last few months you could easily get Persona 3 Reload and Yakuza Infinite Wealth for $25. They go on sale physically a lot for that price. But on PSN the digital sales for these games are rare and don't drop below $35ish.
These companies are 100% using Sony's walled garden as an excuse to keep digital pricing higher. Pair that with Sony selling $700 systems without a disc drive and you can see how Sony is 100% being predatory and anti consumer.
Physical versions of games regularly go on sale for much cheaper than they ever do digitally. For example, the last few months you could easily get Persona 3 Reload and Yakuza Infinite Wealth for $25. They go on sale physically a lot for that price. But on PSN the digital sales for these games are rare and don't drop below $35ish.
These companies are 100% using Sony's walled garden as an excuse to keep digital pricing higher. Pair that with Sony selling $700 systems without a disc drive and you can see how Sony is 100% being predatory and anti consumer.
Felessan
Member
What does walled garden has to do with price drops controlled by publishers?
There are much easier explanation about why digital has lesser drops - a) can't resell, b) no running shelf cost
Both has nothing to do with Sony and are just properties of digital that publisher can leverage to drop price slower.
LoL. "Give me freebies please" mentality
Where's the "give me freebies please" mentality in my post?
I already said this was on publishers who are taking advantage of Sony's walled garden. Publishers determine the price, but it's Sony's decision to not allow keys to be sold via third party retailers to force digital prices down more often.
Pointing out that paying $700 for a system that forces you to buy (on average) more expensive games unless you fork over $80 for a disc drive to buy the (on average) cheaper games is definitely on of the things that leads to class action lawsuits like this. This style of pricing is the exact reason why I didn't buy a Pro.
Gen.Grievous
Member
Yeah. This won't go anywhere. For one it's a luxury item and you are not forced to buy digital. On PC we are forced. On console, at least for now, you still have a choice.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
So they are going to g to try and force Sony to sell something outside of their current distribution? That's stupid.
Do I wish I could buy PlayStation game codes elsewhere? 100% but that doesn't mean they have to. Also, it should be pointed out you can buy PlayStation money just about anywhere and often on sale so they do allow it but it's just packaged differently.
I'm all for lower prices like everyone else but a government telling someone how to sell their goods and essentially for how much is pretty gross. Let the people buying decide with their wallets. Gaming isn't an essential service.
Do I wish I could buy PlayStation game codes elsewhere? 100% but that doesn't mean they have to. Also, it should be pointed out you can buy PlayStation money just about anywhere and often on sale so they do allow it but it's just packaged differently.
I'm all for lower prices like everyone else but a government telling someone how to sell their goods and essentially for how much is pretty gross. Let the people buying decide with their wallets. Gaming isn't an essential service.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Go Dutch!
He has a plan, he just needs money.
You'd be hard pressed to successfully argue that keeping a product at the price it launched at is 'predatory and anti-consumer'.
You're not really entitled to discounts. And you certainly have the option to buy the physical versions that you find are cheaper.
Fbh
Member
That's why I don't agree with the lawsuit though.
No one has to buy a console. The conditions are clear, you can check game prices and availability before buying. If you don't like the business model of consoles where the hardware is usually cheaper because it's basically subsidized by the walled garden, then you can just go get a PC (which will probably be significantly more expensive up front, but cheaper in the long run).
Don't take me wrong, the more expensive games and stuff like paid multiplayer are one of the reasons I too want to switch over from Ps5 to PC. But I don't think Sony should be legally required to change their business model. Consumers have options, if they look at them and still decide to get a Ps5 they can't then come crying because they want cheaper games.
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Gojiira
Member
Well if this means Digital copies are forced to be cheaper than physical then great. If it means digital codes for games etc can be bought from other suppliers ehhhhh also good I suppose.
Though this lawsuit should also be going after Xbox, sane deal there, and even more so on Nintendos storefront…
Though this lawsuit should also be going after Xbox, sane deal there, and even more so on Nintendos storefront…
Lord Malachite
Member
I don't understand this lawsuit. Is Sony required to sell games vja third party? Pretty sure in the terms for Zpsn everyone has to accept it would say you consent to only being able to buy games for PS via the PS store.
Does Sony dictate the price for any games not published by them? If so, I can see that being problematic but if not, I don't see this going anywhere. I thought it had amready been established in a closed ecosystem ths platform holder can do as they wish. PSi sn't providing any vital service, and it is possible to play most games--including many first party PS games, on other hardware without being forced to use PS hardware or buy through the PS store.
Does Sony dictate the price for any games not published by them? If so, I can see that being problematic but if not, I don't see this going anywhere. I thought it had amready been established in a closed ecosystem ths platform holder can do as they wish. PSi sn't providing any vital service, and it is possible to play most games--including many first party PS games, on other hardware without being forced to use PS hardware or buy through the PS store.
WhamBamThankYouMaam
Member
I skipped the ps5 pro due to the prices in their store.
As it stands now I might as well have a pc by the tv instead, and steam has made a "pc console" setup super valid.
As it stands now I might as well have a pc by the tv instead, and steam has made a "pc console" setup super valid.
Uhh, did you even bother reading the OP? Xbox, Steam and Nintendo already allow 3rd party developers to sell digital keys OUTSIDE of the platform.
Sony does NOT.
It's very simple.
Xbox, Steam and Nintendo allow 3rd party developers to sell digital codes OUTSIDE of the platforms.
Sony does not.
mayham2199
Member
A dire wake up call? It's video games relax. Some of you are taking this way to serious. I'm not tryin to change the gaming industry. I'm trying to play games a couple of hours after work with my friends and my children. Maybe go outside and get some other hobbies it's not that serious.
ArtHands
Banned
Joke post? This means Sony has to let other retailers like Amazon or Ebay to sell Playstation games digitally, who offer their own discounts. This has been covered thoroughly in this thread.
StueyDuck
Member
it's dire for them not for us.
simple way to show what i mean. Nintendo want's me to fork out R1800 for another mario kart.
meanwhile Dune Awakening is doing some great stuff, i've put over 60hrs into it and it was R700 at launch.
most of the indie games taking the world by storm are pennies, R.E.P.O was R100 for me (not sure if it still is), this new peak game is R52 currently on steam.
in relation to real world stuff, a draught here is between R30-60 depending where you go, regular store bought bread is R15.
I bought the NS at launch for R6000 (without the pro controller with bits and bobs, with was about R7000), teh NS 2 is R12500 , without any games or anything.
I hardly know anyone whose bought an NS2 here or has shown interest in doing so because it's just beyond what is acceptable as a price to your average salaried person.
these are products that rely on selling 10s of millions these days after 7-10 years of development to just cut a profit. If that isn't an industry in dire need of a shakeup then I don't imagine what is.
EDIT: also i did get a good chuckle at the "go outside" comment, my man, i've been more outside then you've probably ever been in your entire life
. I basically live in nature.
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Gojiira
Member
Yes Dickhead I did and it doesnt alter the fact they still charge through the roof for digital games themselves especially Nintendo (Steam excluded).
DirtyBast8rd
Member
From a Dutch news outlet. Translated with Google. Link to page:
www.nu.nl
Text:
The Mass Damage & Consumer Foundation has summoned Sony in a collective lawsuit. According to the claim organization, the case revolves around high prices for PlayStation games in Sony's digital store.
The foundation announced the case in February after research showed that the most popular games for the PlayStation 4 and 5 in the digital store are almost half more expensive than the physical discs. "While the distribution costs for Sony are lower," says Lucia Melcherts, chairman of the Massaschade & Consumer Foundation.
According to the organization, this is because digital versions of PlayStation games are only for sale in the Sony webshop. So there is no competition. That would give Sony the opportunity to charge extra high prices.
Since the announcement of the case in February, around 22,000 Dutch PlayStation players have joined the collective action. In addition, the foundation received thousands of messages and emails from PlayStation owners who recognize themselves in the situation outlined.
"We are talking about people who have built up a large game collection over the years, sometimes with thousands of hours of play and considerable amounts of money," says Melcherts. She hopes to recover between 135 and 435 million euros through the courts on behalf of a total of 1.7 million Dutch PlayStation owners.
The first session will probably take some time. It will "possibly take place later this year," the foundation said.
Sony op het matje geroepen vanwege hoge prijzen voor PlayStation-spellen
Stichting Massaschade & Consument heeft Sony gedagvaard in een collectieve rechtszaak. De zaak draait volgens de claimorganisatie om hoge prijzen voor PlayStation-games in de digitale winkel van Sony.
www.nu.nl
Text:
The Mass Damage & Consumer Foundation has summoned Sony in a collective lawsuit. According to the claim organization, the case revolves around high prices for PlayStation games in Sony's digital store.
The foundation announced the case in February after research showed that the most popular games for the PlayStation 4 and 5 in the digital store are almost half more expensive than the physical discs. "While the distribution costs for Sony are lower," says Lucia Melcherts, chairman of the Massaschade & Consumer Foundation.
According to the organization, this is because digital versions of PlayStation games are only for sale in the Sony webshop. So there is no competition. That would give Sony the opportunity to charge extra high prices.
Since the announcement of the case in February, around 22,000 Dutch PlayStation players have joined the collective action. In addition, the foundation received thousands of messages and emails from PlayStation owners who recognize themselves in the situation outlined.
"We are talking about people who have built up a large game collection over the years, sometimes with thousands of hours of play and considerable amounts of money," says Melcherts. She hopes to recover between 135 and 435 million euros through the courts on behalf of a total of 1.7 million Dutch PlayStation owners.
The first session will probably take some time. It will "possibly take place later this year," the foundation said.
Super Lemon Drop
Gold Member
Hector Hall
Member
What a waste of time, for a start all the Third party games it's not Sony but the publishers who decide the price. And as for Sony own games, do they really think a judge will condemn them because in some bargain bins someone finds cheaper disc versions of games?
SublimeCorruptor
Member
While consumer groups exist to protect regardless of fault/ignorance, its hard to sympathise here.
Dutch consumers chose PlayStation and they chose digital purchases at the inflated prices they were shown.
Dutch consumers chose PlayStation and they chose digital purchases at the inflated prices they were shown.
clarky
Gold Member
This is old news, covered here
Then a thread before it also.
Then a thread before it also.
Windom Earle
Member
I am all for shitting on Sony but this literally makes no sense to me. Are people forced to buy digital or something? Is Sony not free to make their own prices in their shop?
Paasei
Member
You are forced to buy it on PSN if you want a digital purchase. That and the pricing of games on PSN are, indeed, higher than in most stores where you buy said game physically. Then there's the discounts on PSN, which hardly make any sense. With a discount the game is sometimes the regular retail price.
Basically two issue's here that come down to the digital monopoly Sony has when it comes to the purchase of digital games.
We'll see what happens. It's interesting to follow and overall hating on things that should be regulated better is always fun to talk about on this forum.
RetroGamingUK
Member
As someone who buys half their games from CEX and eBay… meh
Thank god for physical
Thank god for physical
Windom Earle
Member
The thing is, you are not really forced if you want something. But I forgot the digital only PS5 is a thing which gives this more merit... I would argue that people willingly signed up for this when buying the cheaper console though. They must have known Sony will fuck them on pricing.
Paasei
Member
Yes, you are. If you want something digital, you can only get it at PSN, which on PS has the monopoly. That there's an "entirely" different alternative (physical) doesn't matter that much because we're talking about digital goods only and how they are priced without digital alternatives/competition. And then, to my limited knowledge about acts/laws we are talking about the DMA which I think my fellow Dutchies will use for this to make their case.
I believe it to be quite similar with the Epic vs Apple case. In that case saying:"you can just use an Android device" didn't stick, either. At least, not in the EU.
Felessan
Member
DMA not cover console business
There is explicit list of OS it covers (IOS, Android mobile, Windows PC) and console one considered too niche and thus their closeness is not market disruptive
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
You are using a product that you chose to buy. This isn't some sort of basic need lol. You buy a Playstation console you buy on their store yeah that's how it works. You know that when you buy one of their products. It was your choice.
Also...it isn't Sony that chooses their store prices.
Not saying that the lack of competition is good for the consumer...it isn't. But you know what you are doing when you buy a Playstation digital.
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Mithos
Member
You used to be able to buy digital content outside PlayStation Store, first actual game codes were removed by Sony, then PS+ Subscriptions, now only "cash cards" exist at least around here, wouldn't surprise me if Sony stops that too.
By around here I mean I could get it from pretty much any store anywhere that sells "prepaid cards of some kind" you can buy apple, android, Netflix, Spotify, Steam etc etc in most stores here.
EDIT:
In fact 9 out of 10 PS+ Subscriptions throughout the years came from buying PS+ prepaid subscriptions cards from other stores the PlayStation Store.
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Windom Earle
Member
This reasoning does not make sense to me but I guess it might as well be law in EU because the EU is mostly retarded.
Paasei
Member
My guess is that without that reasoning, you could nearly apply it to anything in life. That will probably cause more problems than it would solve.
According to this foundation Sony has the "last say" in the pricing, who they allow on their platform and for whatever terms. That is what they say on their site as quoted below. Whatever that includes.
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
The console business relies on Sony making money on their store. PlayStation has always been a closed ecosystem and I don't think it could function otherwise.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Has there ever been a situation where 3rd party games are more expensive on Playstation than other stores? Isn't that a Nintendo thing actually?
I don't think you understand it...
On Xbox, I can buy 3rd party keys from other places and redeem it on the Xbox. Same goes for Nintendo and Steam.
On Playstation, 3rd party digital titles are not sold anywhere else except the PS store.
So yes, you ARE forced to buy from the PS store compared to the competition.
Paasei
Member
I wouldn't know personally, I do not buy digital games on consoles. However I doubt that matters either way.
I do know now, cause I looked up, lol. That's on me of not properly structuring my reply
Sony holds 80% of the market of all Dutch citizens that own a console. So according to this foundation the following is what's the matter:
Monopoly market position, Sony therefor has little to nothing to fear from implementing their "rules", digital prices are generally quite higher than their physical counterpart, and that with no other digital competition available to get whatever game digitally for a better deal.
This foundation thinks they have enough evidence to make a claim and sue Sony for that. It's the combination of the above that make the case, not seperately.
A few examples:
DS2 is €64 in the store and €80 on PSN
Astro Bot is €65 in the store and €70 on PSN
Clair Obscur is €50 no matter where.
Monster Hunter Wilds is €40 in the store and €55 on PSN DURING a discount. Without it's back to €80.
I used the prices of the Media Markt electronics store chain and PSN. Both the Dutch versions of said stores.
The differences are all over the place.
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