kevboard
Member
Last edited:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dutch consumer foundation 'Massaschade & Consument' starts class action lawsuit against Sony over PlayStation Store prices
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Nintendo be living in 2025 in this aspect and Sony is still stuck in 2010 for thishere's a price comparison for Mario Odyssey keys on PlanetKey:
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Dutch consumer foundation sues Sony for overpricing digital PlayStation games
The Dutch consumer foundation Massaschade & Consument alleges Sony prices digital PlayStation games at nearly double the cost of physical versions.
The only reason that particular key exists is because Ubisoft sold physical boxes with codes. If Ubisoft wanted to do this in addition to the Bluray release they could on PS too and it would show on reseller sites but the savings over retail Bluray releases wouldn't be as large as avoiding Nintendo's cartridge. Publishers who have done this on PS have often been lambasted for including only a code in the box and it died naturally, they could still do it though if they wished.They're not the same.
For example, you can only buy Assassin's Creed 3 Remastered digitally on PC/Xbox/Switch:
Assassin's Creed III Remastered Switch (EU & UK)
Buy Assassin's Creed III Remastered Switch (EU) ✔️ CD Key ✔️ Instant download ✔️ Fantastic price ✔️ Digital Download ✔️www.cdkeys.com
This is what it's about. The fact that Sony does not allow 3rd party digital keys.
You do know that those are resellers right? steam, PS and Nintendo do not allow third party retailers to sell codes but they cannot do anything about resellers like CDkeys. If the publisher generates codes people can resell them however they like.Dutch consumer foundation sues Sony for overpricing digital PlayStation games
The Dutch consumer foundation Massaschade & Consument alleges Sony prices digital PlayStation games at nearly double the cost of physical versions.www.gamedeveloper.com
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Nintendo and Steam do allow games to be sold digitally on other authorized stores like Best Buy, Amazon, Humble Bundle, Fanatical etc
Icymanipulator
Member
I’m a PS fan and I think this would be great for the consumers.
There is recently a sale going on for example, KoF15 Deluxe is discounted on multiple store fronts, it’s $10 on Xbox, $17.59 on Steam, and $20 on Sony. Same game. Not cool.
There is recently a sale going on for example, KoF15 Deluxe is discounted on multiple store fronts, it’s $10 on Xbox, $17.59 on Steam, and $20 on Sony. Same game. Not cool.
Closer
Member
About the same as any english word, basically. How about Reed, read, read, red?The most pertinent question is how the hell do you pronounce “Massaschade”?
Steam doesn't really allow retailers like amazon to sell steam keys. They have a similar ongoing lawsuit which recently became a class action like this has:
Wolfire and Dark Catt's antitrust lawsuit against Valve granted class action status
Wolfire Studios and Dark Catt Studios have been granted class action status for their continuing legal dispute with Val…
www.gamesindustry.biz
They updated their terms in response but they limit keys and it is in fact against the terms of service to resell them this was upheld in some countries like Germany but valve lost in France. They got in trouble for geoblocking in the EU too with said keys. They have apparently said they will remove them entirely if they lose the US dispute.
mayham2199
Member
Been that way since 2019. Haven't noticed a difference except at some point instead of waiting for a sale on PSN they literally just have sales going on year round. As soon as one sale ends another starts. It's actually been better to me for a while now.
Wanted to buy Rise of the ronin but it wasn't on sale. Saw the current sales ended on like 2/13. I saw that on 2/10 so I waited. Next sale started right after and Rise of the ronin was now on sale.
Last edited:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
What? They are different products! Please enjoy trying to run a PS5 executable on PC or vice-versa.
And being different products they are free to price them as they see fit.
There is ZERO chance of this going anywhere because you can buy store credit vouchers, essentially a "wildcard" that allows purchasing of any title, for less than their face value which serves the same function to the consumer.
And if you want to argue that this is unfair because only Sony can issue such credit vouchers, bear in mind that any piece of software running on a Playstation HAS to be licensed by Sony. You cannot publish on their platform without their approval, and you can't circumvent their DRM without running afoul of copyright infringement.
A console is not a general purpose computing product, it exists solely to facilitate playing proprietary software. There is no possible question of this as the business model has been established in the market for 50+ years! You may as well argue that there's an expectation to be able to play Playstation Software on Nintendo platforms!
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That doesn’t change the point that they sell digital games on these retailers. Steam do sell digital games on Fanatical, Indiegala etc while Nintendo sell digital games on Amazon, Best Buy, Target etcSteam doesn't really allow retailers like amazon to sell steam keys. They have a similar ongoing lawsuit which recently became a class action like this has:
Wolfire and Dark Catt's antitrust lawsuit against Valve granted class action status
Wolfire Studios and Dark Catt Studios have been granted class action status for their continuing legal dispute with Val…
They updated their terms in response but they limit keys and it is in fact against the terms of service to resell them this was upheld in some countries like Germany but valve lost in France. They got in trouble for geoblocking in the EU too with said keys. They have apparently said they will remove them entirely if they lose the US dispute.
But not Sony at all.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Yup, that’s how it is. Even if Steam or Eshop doesn’t discount their digital games, you can look for discount for these exactly games at other retailers.
Rise of the Ronin isn’t on discount on Steam rn, but you can grab it cheaper at Fanatical with their own 15% discount code (FANATICAL15), or 10% at Gameplanet US. Profit goes to publisher and these retailers. Steam earn 0%.
Same for Nintendo and Xbox digital games. Nintendo Eshop or Xbox store ain’t the only digital stores you can buy their digital games. Retailers (like Best Buy) and publishers also earn from selling Nintendo/Xbox digital games.
Just not Sony Playstation digital games. Been like this for years.
Spiderman 2 in PSN is different product than Spiderman 2 on Steam? No sense a 100% profit shop is more expensive than 70% profit it is
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Not the same item, in two different markets of different sizes in terms of addressable audience and volume of competition, hence different market value.
What's more these items were not released at the same time, so the one launching first was obviously the premium/premiere product with its success justifying the production of the second as a cost-reduced derivative over time. Again, production cost is reflected in RRP.
It does because again Fanatical is a reseller, based in the UK. It means nothing because Valve do not allow better prices elsewhere at actual retail in their terms. So keys are usually a result of what are called resellers buying them from cheaper regions, bundles, etc then reselling on their site which is why they are called resellers and why it cannot be stopped. Valve and some publishers have tried to stop resellers and still use geoblocked prices but lost those cases in court (bar Germany). Now we have to see what happens with the case of those developers vs Valve in the class action in the new case. If the devs win then it either means Steam will actually allow cheaper keys at retail and not just at resale or Steam stops keys entirely as they've threatened to do.
Last edited:
Angry_Megalodon
Member
This is a consumer protection organization (probably profit free), not just a random farmer
In Europe, these ones are corrupt beyond belief. Almost at the level of unions. It doesn't give the case any legitimacy.
Yoboman
Member
It's relevant because that's how you get a $50 gift card or cd key for $40. Without these shady resellers accessing loop holes or outright fraud then you'd be paying $50 for a $50 giftcard or cd key
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Fanatical, Gamebillet, Humblebundle etc are authorized key sellers who work with the publishers directly.
Fanatical
www.fanatical.com
About Us
Authorized digital download store with indie and major publisher titles for PC, Mac and Linux platforms. Get the best prices, awesome deals.
PC Games - Buy & Download the latest PC releases-about - usa
Official PC & MAC Download retailer since 2004. DLgamer is the place where to buy your Steam, Origin, Ubisoft Connect games codes at the cheapest price.-about-usa
www.dlgamer.com
About Humble Bundle
Humble Bundle is a distribution platform selling games, ebooks, software, and other digital content. Since Humble's founding in 2010, our mission has been to support charity ("Humble") while providing awesome content to customers at great prices ("Bundle").
www.humblebundle.com
Valve literally said they also provide game keys for publisher to sell on other stores. What stores do you think they are referring, if not HumbleBundle or Fanatical?
Steam Keys (Steamworks Documentation)
Publishers literally advertise their games on these platforms themselves.
Ziff Davis, owner of IGN, literally own Humble store.
Humble - Ziff Davis
Improving lives through a shared love of games. Humble sells games, ebooks, software, and other digital content. Humble offers limited-time curated bundles, Humble Choice subscription and Humble Store selling games, books, and software. A portion of sales goes to charity. Humble has raised over...
www.ziffdavis.com
Focus Multimedia Ltd., the retailer behind Fanatical, is own by Fandom
Last edited:
Mr Moose
Member
Dutch consumer foundation sues Sony for overpricing digital PlayStation games
The Dutch consumer foundation Massaschade & Consument alleges Sony prices digital PlayStation games at nearly double the cost of physical versions.
Uh...
Reizo Ryuu
Member
You are wholly confusing grey market resellers with authorised resellers, the latter, like gamesplanet, humble etc., get their keys directly from the publisher, with all proper regional pricing/activation restrictions in place.
This is literally part of steam's partner key generation service.
Sure mate, for EU regulators will be the perfect example how Sony abusive position with PSN
I'm not, they're resellers too even though they buy keys from elsewhere. Steams ToS prevent retailers from offering keys at reduced prices.
Last edited:
Reizo Ryuu
Member
No, they get the directly from the publisher who generates them through's steam partner key generation service, which literally exists for that purpose.
Go and report steam's service to themselves if you are so deluded into believing whatever nonsense it is you believe.
They aren't anything like grey market key sellers.
mèx
Member
But even if it were... who cares? These big companies (Valve, Sony, Nintendo, etc.) use all possible loopholes to pay less taxes, subcontract to developing countries to pay lower salaries and who knows what other shenanigans. They try to abuse their positions as much as they can. So you should do the same to save a few bucks by buying where it's cheaper if you have the possibility to do so (even if it's a gray reseller or whatever), there is nothing wrong about it. As long as it's not stolen stuff or illegal obviously.
If someone tries to fuck you in the ass, you don't just bend over and take it. Or so I hope, but sometimes people here makes me doubt that.
Last edited:
Nobody is deluded, obviously keys get out into the wild through the steam partner key generation service how else would they exist? they're still resellers though. They buy the 5000 limited keys ("authorised" by the publisher but not necessarily sold by them to places like fanatical) then sell them on. Steam can't prevent this. It doesn't really allow them to compete on price though because they're not allowed to undercut steam being simply a retailer. You're not allowed to operate a business like that according to the Steam rules. If they're undercutting them then they're usually grey market keys that Steam cannot prevent.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
...no 5000 keys is what the publisher can generate by default, but they can generate an unlimited amount more on a review bases, and even with those 5000 keys steam will check for abuse and bar any more keys being generated if they feel the system is being abused.
Yet no such thing happens, publishers generate many keys for many different authorised stores like humble or gamesplanet, and steam is happily obliging generating those keys for them because no abuse is taking place otherwise they would shut it down.
Again report steam's service to itself and see how far that gets you, since you clearly know more than they do about their own business.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
These places is openly promoted by the publishers. If Steam don't allow these, the publishers wouldn't have do so.
You're allowed to operate such business. It's literally according to Steam again:
Steam Keys (Steamworks Documentation)
- You should use Steam Keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam.
- It's OK to run a discount for Steam Keys on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time.
What do you think happened to overfall? What exactly do you want me to report to steam and what would it change reporting something to themselves? Stop being silly. There is a court case I already linked regarding this with devs opening a class action for this very issue that you're pretending is not the case.
Last edited:
This was added after the lawsuit and you missed an important part that still remains:These places is openly promoted by the publishers. If Steam don't allow these, the publishers wouldn't have do so.
You're allowed to operate such business. It's literally according to Steam again:
Steam Keys (Steamworks Documentation)
partner.steamgames.com
- You should use Steam Keys to sell your game on other stores in a similar way to how you sell your game on Steam.
- It's OK to run a discount for Steam Keys on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time.
"If you request an extreme number of keys and you are not offering Steam customers a comparable deal, or if your sole business is selling Steam Keys and not offering value to Steam customers, your request may be denied and you may lose the privilege to request keys"
"Games and applications launching on Steam may receive up to 5,000 Default Release Steam Keys to support retail activities and distribution on other stores. After that, all Steam Key requests are reviewed on a case-by-case basis. There is no guarantee that you will be provided additional keys."
in other words don't undercut steam with these keys as a retailer or we would deny keys.
Last edited:
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Where's the proof that this was added after the lawsuit?
Besides, the point is you can sell digital keys on authorized resellers, and that Steam allow publishers to sell digital games on resellers.
Just like Nintendo and Microsoft allowing digital keys to be sold on authorized resellers.
But not Sony.
Valve's new stance on Steam keys: what to know?
Also: a look at the top game legal trends of 2023 & lots more...
newsletter.gamediscover.co
Reizo Ryuu
Member
clearly humble and gamesplanet aren't authorised key sellers according to you, so go report to steam that every publisher selling there is abusing the system and have them barred from generating any more keys.
It wasn't he's full of shit as usual, the keys documentation has existed at least since 2017, they only changed the wording a bit in 2023 so it's more clear and also updated the default number of keys to 5000 instead of zero.
Humble and Gamesplanet don't generate the keys, Valve does. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
....nobody is saying they do, what are you even arguing now? This is about having keys on legitimate, authorised stores, which steam allows, unlike playstation apparently according to massaschade.
The point was that there's a difference between grey market sellers and authorised sellers, who get their key straight from the publishers with all regional restrictions and pricing intact, none of that nonsense you are peddling of grouping them all together where they all get their keys from dubious, cheaper, ww region activated sources and then reselling them for all the profit.
Steam has zero problem with publisher selling on and AND ADVERTISING FOR, authorised sellers like humble or gamesplanet, because there's no abuse of their system of key generation, if there was they'd be barred.
So again, go report them to steam if you're so convinced that they are abusing the system by selling on these different, authorised, stores, they'll point and laugh at you and probably ban your account for trolling.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Valve's new stance on Steam keys: what to know?
Also: a look at the top game legal trends of 2023 & lots more...
The github link cited in that link, also indicated that selling on other sites is fine even before the words were changed.
2 files | keys.html, type_patchnotes.html · SteamDatabase/SteamworksDocumentation@bfa8ed1
📜 Scraper for Steamworks documentation. Contribute to SteamDatabase/SteamworksDocumentation development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
These are what were written before the amendment.
- "Steam keys are meant to be a convenient tool for game developers to sell their game on other stores and at retail. "
- "This is the most common type of key on Steam, which is usually tied to a store or Steam Key package. These keys are appropriate for retail boxes or sales on other sites. "
- "It's OK to run a discount on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time."
But not Sony.
Similar threads
- Locked