CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, Hideaki Nishino, to hold a keynote speech on the first day of TGS over the industry impact of PlayStation Store
Iced Arcade
Member
removing PS games from Steam to exclusively release on its own store to combat MS new PC xbox hybrid lol
yurinka
Member
Around 90% of the physical + digital full game sales (which combined are around 23%).
You have to add there the 3rd party part of the addons (around 30%) and game subs (around 10%).
Most money comes from addons (so mostly GaaS), and Sony still has a small GaaS portion of the PS market, smaller than the one they have for game sales: most top GaaS are 3rd party. And most games included in the game sub are 3rd party.
Meaning, way over 90% of the addons revenue must be 3rd party (around 30%) and a huge chunk of game subs too.
TLDR: Adding everything, pretty likely somewhere above a half of the total SIE revenue (including hardware, accesories and off-PS) comes from the 30% cut they get from selling 3rd party games and addons plus the money Sony makes from gamesubs thanks to 3rd party content.
I think the Asus PC handheld will continue selling less than the Valve PC handheld even if they included an Xbox logo or button.
And the Valve one sold around 4M units so far. So the effect of the 'xbox' PC handheld will be practically zero.
Sony won't care if thanks to this MS supported PC handheld now Sony sells a few copies more in Steam. Specially when Sony will have now the home console market only for them.
Xbox Series may end having sold somewhere between 30-35M once it gets discontinued. Let's say around 10M of them plus the few remaining ones at XBI already have a PS or will move to PC/Switch and not PS.
It means 20-25M extra new users for PS. Jim Ryan always wins.
According to the yen to USD done now via google, this quarter SIE made in revenue:
- Total of the division 936,533M yen ($6.34B)
- 'Game software' 540,189M yen ($3.65B, which is 57.68% of the total)
- 'Other software' (a.k.a. first party games outside PS) 25,330M yen ($171.41M, which is 4.69% of their 'game software' and 2.7% of the total of the division)
If you want to know what aprox. do the first party games in PS, if you assume that in digital+physical full game sales minus the 89.53% of 3rd party in units can also be applied to revenue to get a rough idea:
- full game sales revenue in PS: 22,711+199,538 = 222,249M yen ($1.50M)
- 3rd party estimate part of it: 89.53% of 222,249M yen = 198,980M yen ($1.34B)
- first party estimate part of it: 222,249M - 198,980M = 23,269M yen ($157.48M)
So my super rough estimate of Sony first party game revenue (full games + addons) would be for this quarter:
- 1st party in PS: $157.48M+$59.4M=$216.88M
- 1st party off-PS: $171.41M
Last edited:
Felessan
Member
Yeah, my bad, mixed different others.
Hudo
Member
You usually hold a keynote at a conference like this when you're introducing something new that you want to sell. And since Sony went out of the way to already announce the topic, they're probably either relaunching the Playstation Store or make it available to more platforms.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Considering relaunching it doesn't make much sense given it's relatively functional (could definitely benefit from new key features tho, but you don't need a keynote presentation for that I'd think), it's probably the latter.
The latter would also fit with SIE's established MO, even going from the fireside chat, let alone what they've been outlining in previous fiscal calls. I'd guess it's PS Store to PC and, well.....good luck if it's going to be 1:1 unchanged from console (and without much of the 3P releases the store has on PS consoles). You either go balls-out and compete on features or you fail in the face of Steam, it's that simple.
And if they're going to put that effort into a PC launcher, they should also bring those new features to the console version. Else that's just more bleed of console users to PC (even if it's to your own storefront, which at least in that case is a lateral transfer/conversion...at least for 1P games).
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Yall really think Sony will announce a pc store on a random panel on TGS?
Sony releasing a storefront for pc would be suicide. Unless they still release on Steam of course.
Sony releasing a storefront for pc would be suicide. Unless they still release on Steam of course.
Hector Hall
Member
I dont think so, the income outside PS has been decreasing and decreasing, probably in one year with Helldivers 2 on Xbox and Marathon everywhere it will be higher, but percentage wise it will remain the same, this quarter there simply wasn't any first party game released outside MLBA The Show and thats multi.
yurinka
Member
Not -enterely- true: it's in a growing trend since the PC push started in 2019.
It kept growing every single year with a huge CAGR and had a huge peak in Q4FY23 due to the record Helldivers 2 release disrupted the trend. Obviously after it went back a bit to normaly recovering from the record peak, but still continues in growth trend.
Before reporting first party off-PS revenue they shown this PC specific data in one of their fiscal reports (please notice FY23 is an estimate):
This graph counts Bungie since the moment its acquisition was completed.
As they started to release MLB in other consoles and acquired Bungie, they started to report instead their off-PS (nonPS consoles+PC+mobile) first party game revenue as 'other software' in their fiscal reports instead of a PC specific graph:
- FY22 67,725M yen ($458.22M) *
- FY23 105,358M yen ($712.80M)
- FY24 96,425M yen ($652.47M)
* = Here Bungie is counted for the whole fiscal year and not only in PC
We know they are working in a PC store/launcher, but I think will be formally announced later, once they have a bigger PC lineup and userbase.
Maybe to say that in the next gen buying a game in PSN once you'll be able to play them in the PS5+PS6 home consoles, PS6 portable console, their PC PSN store or in mobile via cloud gaming thanks to crossbuy.
This talk is supposed to be about the history of the PS Store and how it impacted the gaming industry, so I think will focus on its present and specially past. Regarding the future, other than hinting again that they have plans to expand to PC and mobile I think he won't share details.
Sony first party games apparently generate roughly almost the same outside of PS than in PS. If a portion of that gets the extra 20-30% they new pay to Steam would be a significant increase.
The increase would be higher specially if they also -make sure they'll do it- include 3rd party games in their PC PSN store.
I assume ideally for them they'd have a -maybe transitional time- where they'd continue releasing their PC titles in Steam but with the current delay they have now versus the PS5 games regarding the tentpole titles. All games including tentpole would release day one in the PC PSN store, because in case it would be the same PSN than in PS (full crossplay, crossbuy, trophy list, chat etc).
Depending on the progress, after a few years of transition they could stop releasing new games on Steam or Epic Store and would stop selling the previously available ones there for further competition in PC (which remember, would include PC handhelds/consolized PCs including the ones with an Xbox sticker on it).
Assuming console PSN maybe gets 10-20M extra MAU compared to now in the next gen as Xbox refugees plus just continuing the current growth, the PC PSN only would need to add on top a few million MAU, pretty likely half a dozen or less to push PSN to have a bigger active userbase than Steam, becoming the largest AAA game store/ecosystem in all platforms.
Last edited:
playbignbox
Member
At least in my country, this shit store sells third-party and indie games more expensively than any other (including the Nintendo eShop, when the game is released simultaneously). I have nothing to celebrate about its 20th anniversary, and if it comes out on PC, it will be hilarious.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Continuing to release their games on PC, especially once XBoxPC arrives, is suicide.
I could see the PC Store being an experiment. Because if using a seperate launcher is that big of a barrier, that might be enough to convince those within Sony who want to do Day 1 that it's a bad idea.
awwr999999
Member
Have you ever stumbled onto an arcade game that you've never heard of and just played it?
Hands-on gameplay is the fastest way to form an accurate opinion of a video game.
Rich people do this thing where they buy games based solely on box art and just plow through them until they find one that they like.
"Discovering" a video game organically based on box art and hands-on gameplay adds to the gaming experience.
Normal people invest time into learning about games before they play them, forming opinions based on other people's opinions as opposed to organically forming their own.
A bad reviewer can turn millions of people away from a great game that they would have naturally enjoyed.
Last edited:
March Climber
Gold Member
Potentially yes, because their timing with new announcements doesn't always line up with summer or winter shows. They have revealed things around TGS before.
Depends on if it has crossbuy. If it does, that's the instant save. If the crossbuy is backwards compatible in some form (like some random PS4 game I bought years ago is now playable on Sony's PC launcher), that's even better.
I think they still might.
Hector Hall
Member
Not -enterely- true: it's in a growing trend since the PC push started in 2019.
It kept growing every single year with a huge CAGR and had a huge peak in Q4FY23 due to the record Helldivers 2 release disrupted the trend. Obviously after it went back a bit to normaly recovering from the record peak, but still continues in growth trend.
Before reporting first party off-PS revenue they shown this PC specific data in one of their fiscal reports (please notice FY23 is an estimate):
This graph counts Bungie since the moment its acquisition was completed.
As they started to release MLB in other consoles and acquired Bungie, they started to report instead their off-PS (nonPS consoles+PC+mobile) first party game revenue as 'other software' in their fiscal reports instead of a PC specific graph:
- FY22 67,725M yen ($458.22M) *
- FY23 105,358M yen ($712.80M)
- FY24 96,425M yen ($652.47M)
* = Here Bungie is counted for the whole fiscal year and not only in PC
We know they are working in a PC store/launcher, but I think will be formally announced later, once they have a bigger PC lineup and userbase.
Maybe to say that in the next gen buying a game in PSN once you'll be able to play them in the PS5+PS6 home consoles, PS6 portable console, their PC PSN store or in mobile via cloud gaming thanks to crossbuy.
This talk is supposed to be about the history of the PS Store and how it impacted the gaming industry, so I think will focus on its present and specially past. Regarding the future, other than hinting again that they have plans to expand to PC and mobile I think he won't share details.
Sony first party games apparently generate roughly almost the same outside of PS than in PS. If a portion of that gets the extra 20-30% they new pay to Steam would be a significant increase.
The increase would be higher specially if they also -make sure they'll do it- include 3rd party games in their PC PSN store.
I assume ideally for them they'd have a -maybe transitional time- where they'd continue releasing their PC titles in Steam but with the current delay they have now versus the PS5 games regarding the tentpole titles. All games including tentpole would release day one in the PC PSN store, because in case it would be the same PSN than in PS (full crossplay, crossbuy, trophy list, chat etc).
Depending on the progress, after a few years of transition they could stop releasing new games on Steam or Epic Store and would stop selling the previously available ones there for further competition in PC (which remember, would include PC handhelds/consolized PCs including the ones with an Xbox sticker on it).
Assuming console PSN maybe gets 10-20M extra MAU compared to now in the next gen as Xbox refugees plus just continuing the current growth, the PC PSN only would need to add on top a few million MAU, pretty likely half a dozen or less to push PSN to have a bigger active userbase than Steam, becoming the largest AAA game store/ecosystem in all platforms.
Projections made in 2022 over 2023 aren't going to cut it, it's now down 4 quarters YOY even counting the Bungie stuff in Xbox, Lego Horizon on Switch etc.
It can bounce back again, sure, specially if Marathon is a success and Helldivers 2 sells in Xbox, but traditional SO first party games have rock bottomed and they don't have too much left to port. Astro Bot I think will remain exclusive and DS2 whenever it's ported it will be released by Kojima and other publisher as with DS1.
Note that if you remove the amount earned of Stellar Blade 2 million copies on PC, the whole of Other Software is amounting to very very little, those catalogue games simply aren't selling, just as MLBA keeps most of its sales in Playstation and not the ports on Xbox and Switch.
Astray
Member
That works when I'm <20.
I'm much older now and my gaming time is very limited with a LOT of competition for it. Some method is needed to separate the wheat from the chaff.
awwr999999
Member
Look up why Xbox was founded. Xbox isn't in gaming to make a profit it's in gaming to undercut PlayStation and bolster Microsoft/Windows/PC.
Hari Seldon
Member
If this store doesn't at a minimum have 1P crossbuy it is DOA. EA and Epic have much bigger PC franchises and they lost to Steam.
Durin
Member
One obvious feature would be cross-platform save support for games if they're going to do a launcher.
Zathalus
Member
Hah, bullshit.
CamHostage
Member
It's possible that they may make an announcement for something new, but it's also possible that this will be the dry, uneventful history lesson that it's on the schedule as being. Sony has plenty of history of just talking business at TGS, when I was a journo I recall the crapshoot of booking time on these talks, sometimes they'd have something to show like DualShock 3, other times it's just a long Powerpoint presentation. (One time, they did both; they had the boring biz talk, then scheduled another room time to show a few games.)
Sony TGS 2009 keynote
Sony Computer Entertainment president Kaz Hirai delivered his keynote address at the Tokyo Game Show today and spoke of…
www.eurogamer.net
Not in about a decade or more though. The last one which Sony put effort into was I believe TGS 2015.
TGS is a tough time to make an announcement which will matter outside of the Japanese market; it's close to Christmas and all the big title launches, if it's a long-time pre-hype announcement for a distant new 20XX product then it's also a bad time for that because all eyes are hopefully on product which needs to leap off shelves in 2 months, it's still not far enough away from E3 or CES or Gamescom for that matter to be a strategic time for announcements it's usually after several previews when it's a hands-on showing of say new hardware, and now PS Japan isn't even the epicenter of PlayStation (and Sony Corp likes CES if it has a brand-level announcement to make.)
I mean, tune in if you like, but I would not lose sleep over it hoping for megatons.
March Climber
Gold Member
CamHostage
Apologies, to clarify a bit, I didn't mean reveal at TGS, I simply kept it at revealing around TGS.Sony likes to reveal things and bring up big changes around September or slightly later, for example the PS5 pro last year. TGS just happens to take place during that time.
I think if it weren't for the fact that Hideaki will be in the area during TGS, Sony probably would have had Herman reveal whatever Hideaki's (maybe) about to announce, during a September reveal stream or State of Play.
Hudo
Member
I am not sure an expo that is focused on consumers would be the right venue for this, but maybe you are right.
Felessan
Member
There is a business section in TGS and Nishino will hold a speech in it, not in consumers part.
asdasdasdbb
Member
It could be something less big of a deal like a redesign of the site. Maybe some additional countries added.
Jen_yakzua
Member
They made this blog post https://sonyinteractive.com/en/news/blog/evolving-the-playstation-store-experience/
Tobimacoss
Member
So no PC store?
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
CamHostage
Member
Also, TGS has a specific Business Day ahead of the General Public Days which are reserved for professionals (so exhibitors, business analysts, investors, retail bookers and merchandisers, press of course, etc.)
This is not "new Sony/PlayStation". They have been hosting business conferences at TGS probably as long as they've been there. They also had/have business talks at E3 and GDC and I presume Gamescom for the lifespan of those shows.
The "new" thing is that you in the public know about it. (Or relatively new, as press typically checks in at the doors of these things but unless there was a story it wouldn't get written up. Now, internet sleuths and online program notations have now made it that anything which might be a spark of hype gets tweeted somewhere, and with video and live-journals, clocks get set for these events just in the tiny case that the dry event turns into a miracle typhoon.)
Last edited:
CamHostage
Member
Well, they have Sept reveals, but typically there's a clear strategy to even those big-change reveals, and it's usually around a late push for the sales season. Also, I can't really check the history offhand, but from the couple of time I can think of where Sony had big TGS statements, it was something generally known about and just kept off of the E3/Leipzig event floor for specific reasons. (PS4 Pro would be an example of that.)
That said, PC Store is one of those oft-rumored things which could be one of these cat-shaped bags that Sony is about to let something out of...
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I'll be frank: it's not even actually so much about SIE releasing their games on PC. The problem is they're doing so on platforms they don't own and therefore have no control of standardization (or fully cohesive ecosystem synergy/integration).
Would it still be stupid if they put something like Yotei on PC 6-12 months after console? Yeah, it would. But if that were exclusive to their own PS Store on PC, at least it would make more sense. If you lose a console sale and that user buys it on PC, they're still buying it from your store, so at least with that 1P title you retain that customer wholly. It's a lateral transfer/conversion at worst. Now, they might buy their third-party games elsewhere, and that is something which still results in a loss for SIE in the conversion process of that user to PC. And yes, there'd be a noticeable knock-on effect as a result to other things like subscriptions. But at least it makes sense as a strategy if it's through your own virtual platforms on hardware which isn't yours.
SIE might be getting ready to deploy PS Store on PC but they have SOOO much against them in gaining traction there, all due to how they've been handling their PC ports the past 5 years. PC gamers will be expecting all of their games on Steam Day 1 when it comes to any PC versions; if SIE suddenly limit that to just their own storefront, those PC users on Steam will likely not migrate over, and only a paltry number will add PS Store as an option. SIE are also literally thousands of games behind Valve when it comes to 3P software support in general, and it'd be even worst when just looking at respective PC storefronts. Then there's the option they could pull current games off Steam, but if they do such they'd have to immediately issue refunds to all purchases or risk a major lawsuit. Even if they did such, they'd burn massive amounts of goodwill with those customers.
So the only realistic, non-destructive option for growing their own storefront on PC now would be to make all future ports exclusive to it, stick to that for the long-term, build on competitive features (and bring those features to the console's storefront), galvanize 3P who only support Steam to also consider releasing their games on the PS PC storefront (and on console, though now you've got another problem: different OSes, so how's SIE going to incentivize those 3P to port from Windows to PS OS?), galvanize console 3P to prioritize the PS PC storefront in some way 9i.e 3P keep 100% of revenue from PC version sales on the PS PC storefront) and more. And this is something they'd have to stick to unwaveringly for at least a decade, maybe longer.
I just genuinely do not see modern SIE having that type of vision or level of slow-burn patience (or willingly losing money), not when they are pursuing growth of profit margins at an accelerated rate.
nial
Member
TGS is only open to the public on the last two days of the event.
nial
Member
He's right in that they usually hold stuff close to TGS, be it PlayStation Meeting 2016, PS5 Pro Technical Presentation, or the several Showcases and SOPs held in September since 2019 (when pre-TGS press conferences were no more). They even held last year's SOP a day before TGS, which was unusual to them.
Dafegamer
Member
That's good and all, but the huge difference is that Sony used to showcase/Demo their upcoming Games as well. Them abandoning that and continuing the self fellating is weird to me tho
nial
Member
They're literally doing that at this year's TGS.
Dafegamer
Member
Their first party games? Show me the list or Blog. If they actually have shown it, I apologize, but I haven't seen anything about them talking about showing upcoming Games.
nial
Member
They're a general exhibitor at TGS, I can't show you any list because that's not posted until next week.
Astro Bot was playable last year and they had a dedicated panel for Death Stranding 2. They also set a SoP on a Wednesday in JST (just a day before TGS), which is pretty unusual for them. These SoPs pretty much serve the same purpose as the pre-TGS press conferences in the past.
Dafegamer
Member
Ok let's hope they announce something. I'm tired of feeling negative all the time, but you really can't blame me(or the fanbase) for the dumb decisions they made recently tho(Cancellations, mismanagement of gaming budget for service stuff etc) I want my purchase of the PS5 to feel worthwhile, like it did for past PlayStation consoles/Devices etc. It also doesn't help that the their communication with the fanbase over the years(I partly blame COVID too, cause after all that, Sony kind changed forever regarding their open-ness overall) has gotten almost non existent. Just a small state of play here and there, that's it
nial
Member
I'm just telling you that they're doing more than just a keynote speech.Ok let's hope they announce something. I'm tired of feeling negative all the time, but you really can't blame me(or the fanbase) for the dumb decisions they made recently tho(Cancellations, mismanagement of gaming budget for service stuff etc) I want my purchase of the PS5 to feel worthwhile, like it did for past PlayStation consoles/Devices etc. It also doesn't help that the their communication with the fanbase over the years(I partly blame COVID too, cause after all that, Sony kind changed forever regarding their open-ness overall) has gotten almost non existent. Just a small state of play here and there, that's it
yurinka
Member
They outperformed their projections for FY2023.
And if have been 4 quarters YoY because just before that they released their fastest selling game ever in PC too, which on top of this is a GaaS that is making more money with IAP than from game sales. So after that insane peak numbers obviously are going back to normality even if remained pretty similar.
I think Helldivers 2 in Xbox won't make a ton of money, but will add a bit more. I think Marathon and Tokon will be the next first party main money makers both in PS and PC. I think both will outperform Yotei, which I think will sell less than Tsushima due to wokism and not impressive enough visuals.
I also think it's stupid to don't count GaaS, Stellar Blade, etc. Obviously if you don't count anything the result is zero. The reality is that their first party games are making around $700M per year outside PS, which aprox of what all 1st+3rd party PS physical games generate to Sony in PS and must be pretty close to what 1st party games generate in PS.
This is going to be a talk for proffesionals devs and publishers about the history of the PS Store and its impact in the industry.
They won't announce any game there or anything like that, it isn't intended for the public. It won't a marketing event like the E3 conferences or the SoP videos.
They now make more showcases than ever before with the SoP videos. Which btw, normally every year they have one for the TGS / September, where they announce and showcase games. But will be something totally unrelated to this talk.
Regarding TGS booths, Sony will have multiple ones (plus several of their partners will have their own one too): https://www.gematsu.com/2025/07/tokyo-game-show-2025-exhibitors-list-and-main-visual-announced
Last edited:
