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Reuters: US officials say deadly Yemen operation approved without sufficient intel

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Mr_Antimatter

Member
NullPointer said:
I can't get into armchair quarterbacking operations like these that have been going on for many years. The raid that took down Osama could have gone to shit (and partially did), and there was a lot of reticence towards that op based upon a lack of intel too. Somebody ends up making the hard call.

But using Obama as a scapegoat is absolute bullshit. The buck stops where it stops.
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Didn't Obama insist on a backup helicopter for the Osama raid, that ended up being a literal lifesaver? As much as folks seem to hate the guy, he seemed to know his stuff and plan for the worst case.
 
J

John_B

Member
If you give the go ahead, then you own the outcome. But surely Trump is not the type of person to own up to a failure. Negative credit would have been given to Obama if this was a successful operation.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Mr_Antimatter said:
Didn't Obama insist on a backup helicopter for the Osama raid, that ended up being a literal lifesaver? As much as folks seem to hate the guy, he seemed to know his stuff and plan for the worst case.
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He did, and it did make a difference.

I don't know if we'll ever know about some of his calls that might not have worked out though. This stuff is murky.

Maybe we'll find out more about this operation, and where the ball was dropped, but its hard for me to look at this as black and white at this point.
 
Z

Zen Aku

Member
John_B said:
If you give the go ahead, then you own the outcome. But surely Trump is not the type of person to own up to a failure. Negative credit would have been given to Obama if this was a successful operation.
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We're going to be 3 years into this and people will still blame Obama for some reason.

"That stapler that was used to bind the documents that started World War III originally belong to former President Obama, without it. We might have been able to avoid this war." - Sean Spicer.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
NullPointer said:
I don't know if we'll ever know about some of his calls that might not have worked out though. This stuff is murky.
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Well, if these military officials are leaking/making these statements in a way not done under Obama my assumption is that they're angry at why this was botched in a way maybe even Obama's botched calls weren't.

I don't think it's normal for military officials to throw their president under the bus like this.
 
W

watershed

Banned
Trump has always been incompetent. This raid is a reflection of some of his worst faults. This is what happens when you elect someone who isn't serious about the job and doesn't have the right temperament.
 
Joel Was Right

Joel Was Right

Member
Since when has a lack of intelligence been cause to hold back the US military? More importantly, we knew of Trump's gungho atttitude towards the use of the military. People still voted him in, and I doubt any of his 60m supporters will look at this example and see it as a cause for concern.

Expect more of the same going forward.
 
N

Nemesis121

Member
If it's not Obama gonna be someone else, Trump will never be held accountable for anything that goes bad, blame will always fall on someone else...the man is an angel from God..
 
J

Joe

Member
Yeah, I take back my claim that Obama may get equal blame for this.

The long-term story here might be that Trump sat down with Kushner and Bannon to make this decision.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Nemesis121 said:
If it's not Obama gonna be someone else, Trump will never be held accountable for anything that goes bad, blame will always fall on someone else...the man is an angel from God..
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At the very least I can't imagine anybody with a military background accepting that kind of excuse. Trump gave the word, and he owns it.
 
1

120v

Member
first thing i thought about when trump won was all the soldiers who'll die because derp. hate to trivialize the issue but this is just the tiniest tip of the iceberg
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
It sounds like a mission that was performed before it was optimal to do so but I'd wait for more info and reporting before shitting on Trump. The report even states that terrorists were alerted after hearing American drones flying. Even perfectly planned missions go wrong. The Bin Laden raid almost failed from the start when a helicopter crashed.

The story isn't going away, I'm sure more reporting will commence. Trump is commander in chief and ultimately failed missions are his fault by default, fair or unfair.

The bigger thing to me is the leaks. Two weeks and this is already more leaks than any modern presidency. It's very clear there are GOP officials/aides in the WH who are opposed to Trump.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
It sounds like a mission that was performed before it was optimal to do so but I'd wait for more info and reporting before shitting on Trump
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See that's the thing with Trump he is 100% visible, there is nothing that isn't known about his character. He isn't a secret master military strategist, he doesn't play 3D chess, he has no hidden attributes AT ALL all his good qualities are known and his bad ones are as well.

So, to the extent that he was involved, the buck stops with him and it is completely sane to decide now and with a high degree of probability that he went off half cocked because that is what he has displayed constantly. It's either that, or blame the military and that's not gonna fly.

Of course the narrative is it was obamas fault and very possibly obama left an AQ operative in the whitehouae that alerted the bad dudes. That's the alternative facts on this one and that's what we are going to hear.
 
R

Rutger

Banned
Trump screws up because of rushing things through without thinking, then goes on to blame Obama...

Sadly, I feel this is not the last time we'll see this. :/
 
N

norinrad

Member
RDreamer said:
Well, if these military officials are leaking/making these statements in a way not done under Obama my assumption is that they're angry at why this was botched in a way maybe even Obama's botched calls weren't.

I don't think it's normal for military officials to throw their president under the bus like this.
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They are throwing him under the bus and rightfully so. His childish decisions is going to cost not only military personnel their lives but the lives of quite a lot of people.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
kayzai said:
Why are people blaming Trump or even Obama?

I was under the impression that the Military command and intelligence plan the assault and then seek the commander in chief's approval to proceed.
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You've answered your own question. If an operation like this is signed off on by the President, it's on the President to make a judgement about the likelihood of success, possible risks etc. based on what intelligence is made available to him. He could push it back, saying the chance of failure is too great or asking for a different option/more information, or he could push forward with a riskier operation.

The military will no doubt present him with a "menu" of options, but it's his decision to go ahead with them and he has the power to rule out a strike if the risks are too great - and he has the responsibility if an operation he authorises goes tits-up.

This is on Trump, as he gave the go-ahead for it.
 
W

watermelons

Banned
kayzai said:
Why are people blaming Trump or even Obama?
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In America for the past ~25 years it's been a tradition to blame the every military failure on the older administration, or blame it on the new one and ignore when the older administration did the exact same things, depending on your political views.
 
B

BrassDragon

Member
kayzai said:
Why are people blaming Trump or even Obama?

I was under the impression that the Military command and intelligence plan the assault and then seek the commander in chief's approval to proceed.


What could Obama or Trump have done differently?
Did the military say it wasn't ready and Trump overruled it???

Didn't a whole Seal Team get wiped out in Afghanistan under Obama?
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Much as I loathe Trump, it's hard to call this one (unless you're against armed interventions in foreign countries on principle but then you probably hate every recent presidency.)

Yes, it could very well be that the new administration was gung-ho and didn't think through the possible outcomes... but by the same token, they could have been put in a position where the target data stores were about to be moved or wiped, necessitating a launch or about decision without ideal preparation. We just don't have enough to go on here.

These are high-risk operations even under the best of circumstances so I'll hold off judgement until more information about the mission comes out.
 
V

vsMIC

Member
Surely errors in planning can be done, but if authorized, the signer bears the responsibilty (if not sabotaged). I am puzzled how this can be questioned anyhow. This is on Trump, it is his job to make the correct call, so approve, delay or cancel or whatever...
 
J

jellies_two

Member
BrassDragon said:
but by the same token, they could have been put in a position where the target data stores were about to be moved or wiped, necessitating a launch or about decision without ideal preparation. We just don't have enough to go on here.
.
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I remember that MGS mission

Look if that was the case they would be saying it.
We are hearing leaks plus the best defense they got. They got nothing, otherwise it would be out and deployed as ass covering for trump. They can't even lie really, because the leaks would make them look stupid.
 
N

Nivash

Member
kayzai said:
Why are people blaming Trump or even Obama?

I was under the impression that the Military command and intelligence plan the assault and then seek the commander in chief's approval to proceed.


What could Obama or Trump have done differently?
Did the military say it wasn't ready and Trump overruled it???

Didn't a whole Seal Team get wiped out in Afghanistan under Obama?
Click to expand...

Obama had nothing to do with the team lost in Afghanistan. They were sent as part of a regular combat opereation and the decision was made by local commanders. The president isn't typically involved personally with every mission that happens to include special forces units - just the covert ones, like the Osama raid and this one in Yemen. In either case, the president owns full responsibility for the outcomes of those operations but can't be blamed for other setbacks where they weren't consulted in the first place.
 
O

old manatee

Banned
Republican history states that Bill Clinton's presidency ran right up to Sept 11, 2001, and then Obama was responsible for everything after that. Doesn't surprise me that they are going to blame all of Trump's pathetic fumbling on Obama, too.

All they have to offer the country is blame the black guy and pass the bill onto our grandkids.
 
B

BraXzy

Member
Mairu said:
Of course the White House blames Obama for something that happened while Trump was president.
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It's fucking absurd how anything they can blame, they will blame on Obama. Stop passing the buck! He's not in office anymore, he's not making the idiotic decisions.

Yet Trump's base agree and use the same argument...
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
10 women and children died. 10.
 
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