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[xexex]

http://www.revogaming.net/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=145

RevoGaming has heard from sources inside the development community that IBM has finalised the Broadway processor and is showing it to developers. Details inside.

The details come from two different sources inside the development community. One source revealed the information to RevoGaming around three weeks ago, whilst the other revealed it to us a few days ago. We were waiting for a word from another development insider before we would report it.

Apparently, the "Broadway" processor is finished, and IBM has shown plans and a prototype to Nintendo. After some discussion, it has been shown to select developers. One source said that the processor was a dual-core one, whilst the other would not reveal any technical information.

Both sources would not talk about ATi's "Hollywood" graphics chip or any other internal Revolution components. The names of the sources cannot be revealed at their request, nor the developers they work at.

There is no official word from Nintendo, so this should still be classified as a rumour.

don't remember the rumor of it being dual-core, not counting the very old rumored specs where one set had 2 CPUs.

if anything, use this thread as a spring-board to continue the capabilities rumored by EGM discussion since the thread on that subject was closed.

 

[trilobyte]

this would mean better than g-cube right

what about dual core 33mhz cpus?

 

[DrGAKMAN]

This is believable 'cos it doesn't say anything outrageous.

I think Nintendo should aim to make scalable ports from X360 easier since that will be the "mid-ground" system between PS3 & PC developement. The more closly it meets the X360's range the more PS3 is the oddball as well (more expensive hardware, more expensive format, more expensive development costs, more complicated development environments, etc).

 

[PhoenixDark]

Two cores in the system plus two cores in the controller=4 cores in total

Revolution graphics>Xbox 360 graphics

 

[malek4980]

this would mean better than g-cube right

Why would Nintendo pay IBM to develop a chip that's on par or only slightly better than the one in the GameCube. I predict a 2 Ghz CPU with two cores. Not nearly as powerful as the 360 or PS3, but allows for a smaller console at a much cheaper price.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I couldn't believe it when I was reading that other thread... that people actually think Revolution could be as weak as Gamecube.

Nintendo really need to learn to avoid saying anything that could be construed so negatively. Unless of course the plan is to set the bar so low for people they shit themselves when they see it.

 

[Polari]

Take this with a rather large grain of salt.

Personally, I don't expect to see the Revolution have a dual-core processor. It seems rather unlikely considering the form factor, Nintendo's emphasis on cheap and easy development as well as their general strategy.

 

[imastalker co.]

this is taking forever...

 

[xexex]

I expect either a very simple dual-core processor or a complex single core processor.

neither one will push more than 50 Gflops of peak theoretical performance. but even 30 Gflops would be a nice improvement over Gekko's 1.9 Gflops

 

[Deku Tree]

Dual Core 2GHz would have to run much cooler than the current IBM offerings to fit inside the Revo's housing, no?

 

[xexex]

either 2 Ghz single core or 1.5 Ghz dual core. just a guess.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I predict tri-core 6 ghz processors. The name is Broadway and Nintendo spent money on it so clearly it's that. Plus, with the magic elves Nintendo ships in every case, it's entirely plausible. Once again, I point to Nintendo spending lots of money. Clearly, money and elves is a convincing argument that cannot be refuted.

Oh, if only Microsoft had some of those elves. We all know they don't have that money.

If it's a battle between magical elves/fairies, MS wins handsdown.

Kameo>>>>>>>>>>>>Tingle

 

[xexex]

I agree with the opinion that Revolution is going to be much more powerful than Gamecube - just not as powerful as PS3 or X360. especially in terms of CPU power. Rev will only have a fraction of the CPU flops performance of Cell and Xenon.

but in terms of GPU power, I think Rev will be close. the Hollywood, Xenos and RSX are all going to be somewhat close to each other. all are going to push 100 million+ fully tricked out polygons per second in game.

 

[xexex]

for a future Nintendo system, the chipset is going to be called TriForce - TriForce will contain 3 multi-Exoflop supercomputers with of power and destroy PS4, PS5, Xbox3, Xbox 4 etc. :lol

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Why would Nintendo pay IBM to develop a chip that's on par or only slightly better than the one in the GameCube. I predict a 2 Ghz CPU with two cores. Not nearly as powerful as the 360 or PS3, but allows for a smaller console at a much cheaper price.

I'm thinking 1.5Ghz dual-core CPU loaded with on-chip memory coupled with a ~500Mhz GPU loaded with Revolution specific effects. Memory is a big "?" to me. Any higher speeds would mean that the chips would probably be produced at 65nm instead of 90nm. On a SDTV the system will display graphics every bit as beautiful as those on competing systems (despite considerably less power/cost).

 

[radioheadrule83]

Gekko was based on Power PC right?

I could see them going with something like this. I don't know too much, but I've read a little about the PPC 970FX, low power model of the G5 chip, where one core can be off for power saving purposes, and it dissipates quite low at ~1.5ghz and below...

It would at least make sense that it be PPC derivative, whether its dual core or not.

 

[Frankfurter]

I'm predicting a single core CPU with about 2.5ghz but a better per mhz power than the X360 CPU.

Guys, just a short math course:

X360 CPU uses 3 cores with 3.2ghz each, which means that it has nearly three times the power consumption of a single core 3.2ghz CPU.
Add to that that power consumption quadruples (is the spelling correct? ) if you double the clock rate should give you an idea of how much less power consumption a 2.5ghz single core CPU in the NRev would have (not counting the possiblity that IBM/Nintendo could have settled for 65nm and that a lower clocked CPU should allow them to lower voltage): it would be about 20-25% of the X360 CPU with three 3.2ghz cores (as I said: not counting the possiblity of 65nm and the lower voltage).
Unless the X360 CPU alone consumes sth. like 150W that should be possible, imho.

 

[acidviper]

Aw cm'on at leas t mention EA and a cousin of some sort.

 

[Polari]

Dual-core just isn't happening. It's simply not on the cards; power consumption and heat is just too much for a machine of Revolution's form factor. A modified 970FX class chip is what you'll most likely see, which will be more than adequate. Nintendo has always been about about logical, efficient system design as opposed to simple brute force. Look at the Gamecube, it's an exceptional design and gave the Xbox a for its money in terms of graphics.

 

[koam]

This is believable 'cos it doesn't say anything at all

*fixed*

 

[jedimike]

Why are they just finishing the processor design? When do we expect this thing to launch?

 

[malek4980]

Why are they just finishing the processor design? When do we expect this thing to launch?

Well I thought they sent out the final dev kits weeks ago. One of these rumors is false then.

 

[Timbuktu]

Well I thought they sent out the final dev kits weeks ago. One of these rumors is false then.

They didn't say when IBM finished 'Broadway', just that one of the sources contacted them a few weeks ago, which would match the other rumor if it's someone from the dev community. It's conservative enough to be believeable, but does it really matter? This doesn't change anything, so why not just wait for E3?

 

[xexex]

Why are they just finishing the processor design? When do we expect this thing to launch?

most reports say 3rd Q 2006 - at least this time, Revolution chipset will not sit on the shelf for ~1 year, aging, as the GCN chipset did.

 

[WindyMan]

Why are they just finishing the processor design? When do we expect this thing to launch?

They'll probably launch it around October or November. A year for third parties to develop launch games is plenty, Nintendo has probably already had their Revolution games developed for a few months now.

 

[Fuzzy]

Call me when I can see some games running.

 

[clearacell]

...but can it run rubber ducky tech demos?

 

[Juice]

This is believable 'cos it doesn't say anything at all.

Fixed.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

...but can it run rubber ducky tech demos?

Broadway would be too weaksauce for the demands of the duckies.

 

[littlewig]

Don't most of the rumored specs state that the Broadway is dual cored, and atleast clocked at 2.0 GHZ?

 

[GaimeGuy]

...but can it run rubber ducky tech demos?

someone say DUCKY?!

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Not interested in "leaks." Nintendo is literally a fortress. Everyone "rumored" on the Revolution controller and everyone being so far off base.

One legitimate leak did get out about the Revolution controller a few days before they unveiled it. An actual promo picture was posted (the one with the controller/nunchaku being held in front of the TV) but everyone automatically wrote it off as being fake. :lol

I didn't find out about it until after they revealed the controller at TGS, but IIRC it was on the Nintendo.com forums.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Why are they just finishing the processor design? When do we expect this thing to launch?

i think its more far off than alot of people think. i'd be suprised if it makes it before '07 quite frankly. the strong DS sales should have a hand in not rushing nintendo too much

this is what baffles me/pisses me off about people complaining about zelda interferring with the rev launch: the two are gonna be released very far apart in terms of the fiscal year. if the console launches before june then i'll grow another dick

 

[AndoCalrissian]

i think its more farther off than alot of people think. i'd be suprised if it makes it to before '07 quite frankly. the strong DS sales should have a hand in not rushing nintendo too much

this is what baffles me/pisses me off about people complaining about zelda interferring with the rev launch: the two are gonna be released very far apart in terms of the fiscal year. if the console launches before june then i'll grow another dick

Now that would be an entertaining thread. :lol

 

[Grug]

One legitimate leak did get out about the Revolution controller a few days before they unveiled it. An actual promo picture was posted (the one with the controller/nunchaku being held in front of the TV) but everyone automatically wrote it off as being fake. :lol

I didn't find out about it until after they revealed the controller at TGS, but IIRC it was on the Nintendo.com forums.

That was fake dude, the guy posted a bullshit that was picture linked to his photobucket account, then after the RevCon announcement, he replaced the picture with the actual real nintendo promo image.

 

[Gaia Theory]

Why are they just finishing the processor design? When do we expect this thing to launch?

Do you have some sort of insight into chip design that says the current timeline of Revolution chip development is abnormal?

If not, I don't see why finalizing chip design JUST now is a problem. The system is likely a year away.

 

[elostyle]

I think 2 fully featured cores at a low speed of say 1.5ghz would be about right. 2 simple cores without out of order execution and branch prediction etc at 1.5ghz would be too weak I think.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

This news is kind of old, but interesting none the less. I posted this in the EGM rumor thread just before it got locked.

Here's a very good article on the possibilities of Broadway, the Revolution CPU:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/revolution.ars

The name Broadway should be an indication of the direction Nintendo is heading with it. A huge pipe and a very efficient architecture. Here are some key points I got from the article:

Arstechnica "The Revolution's PowerPC processor, codenamed "Broadway," is designed by IBM. One of the signal characteristics of IBM as a microprocessor design house is their modular approach to processor design, wherein major functional blocks of logic are reused across multiple processors spanning multiple market segments. IBM doesn't start processor designs completely from scratch anymore, because they don't need to. They repurpose technology that is already on hand by tailoring it to fit customers' needs."

[/I]- Broadway may share many of the features Xbox 360 & PS3 have.[/I]

Arstechnica "We've seen above that the Revolution's small form factor demands power efficiency, and as we'll see below the console's overall approach to gaming as revealed in Nintendo's public statements demands solid single-threaded performance. So by cutting the number of PPEs to one or two, reducing the clock speed, and loading up on L2 cache, IBM can get better single-threaded performance and lower power usage out of a PPE-based design."

[/I]- Performance over power[/I]

Arstechnica "Speaking of the Sony vs. Microsoft graphics horse race, the most common criticism that developers have leveled at Sony's and Microsoft's next-generation consoles is that their PPE-based designs perform poorly on physics, AI, and game control code..."

"...The PPE is ill-equipped for the kind of branchy integer codes that make up the physics, AI, and control portions of a game. The emerging, prelaunch consensus is therefore that these two next-generation consoles will give us a raft of games that are visually stunning to look at but lacking in the very areas that Nintendo claims that their own next-generation console will revolutionize."

"A large on-die L2 cache, possibly in combination with a larger off-chip 1T SRAM cache, will give the processor's integer and branchy code performance a huge boost. It will also make the architecture more developer-friendly, insofar as it's a more traditional two- or four-threaded design with enough cache to do at least some justice to all running threads if implemented carefully."

It's a good article and seems to fall in line with Nintendo's stance on efficiency vs. raw power.

 

[monkeyrun]

Why would Nintendo pay IBM to develop a chip that's on par or only slightly better than the one in the GameCube. I predict a 2 Ghz CPU with two cores. Not nearly as powerful as the 360 or PS3, but allows for a smaller console at a much cheaper price.

exactly ..

you know sometime it amazes me how some people's logic operates.

 

[littlewig]

THIS IS A LOGICAL FALLACY. CAN WE NOT CITE "LOGIC" AND THEN REFERENCE AN UNANSWERED, RHETORICAL QUESTION?

I understand the N-Tard Horse is higher than the lowly Xbot that I am, but can we not laugh at people who don't take a rhetorical question as some type of meaningful repartee?

Someone punish this guy for lacking common sense.

 

[Fafalada]

That ars article has some massive misconceptions about performance characteristics/requirements of console software.
That said, the notion that CPU might be PPE based is plausible enough - but if Nintendo's really looking for simplicity/higher single thread performance, I hope for their sake they are using something else.

 

[monkeyrun]

THIS IS A LOGICAL FALLACY. CAN WE NOT CITE "LOGIC" AND THEN REFERENCE AN UNANSWERED, RHETORICAL QUESTION?

I understand the N-Tard Horse is higher than the lowly Xbot that I am, but can we not laugh at people who don't take a rhetorical question as some type of meaningful repartee?

I neither find it bad nor good. I just find it amazing.

 

[papercut]

Yes, punish me for not knowing the magical info sourced daily. I get it, they paid a lot. Show me WHY they paid a lot, don't give me some conclusion you deem obvious and then go, "I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE THINKS OTHERWISE."

You don't have to spend millions of dollars to make five year old hardware slightly smaller. You can spend millions of dollars trying to squeeze newer and more powerful hardware into the same space, though. I get your point, but you don't have much of a counterargument so why not just leave it alone?

 

[Donnie]

Personally, I don't expect to see the Revolution have a dual-core processor. It seems rather unlikely considering the form factor, Nintendo's emphasis on cheap and easy development as well as their general strategy.

Your greatly over estimating the size requirements for a next generation system. As well as the internal size difference between Revolution and XBox 360. When all is said and done Revolution will be about half the size of XBox 360 (I'm talking about internal space rather then case size). XBox 360's CPU consumes around 85 watts of power, a dual core 2Ghz PPE based CPU would consume more like 30 watts. That's on the same 90nm process, if Nintendo/IBM use 65nm it would be more like 20 watts.

Dual Core 2GHz would have to run much cooler than the current IBM offerings to fit inside the Revo's housing, no?

Don't compare it to IBM's desktop CPU's compare it to IBM's PPE core used in XBox 360 and PS3 (28 watts per core at 3.2Ghz on a 90nm process).

Dual-core just isn't happening. It's simply not on the cards; power consumption and heat is just too much for a machine of Revolution's form factor.

What evidence do you have for saying this? Or are you just making assumptions and passing them off as facts?

Worst case scenario is that Nintendo are stuck with a 90nm chip process. In that case a 2Ghz dual core version of XBox 360/PS3's CPU would consume about one third (30 watts) of the power consumed by XBox 360's triple core 3.2Gghz CPU with about 42% of the peak performance (48Gflops).

 

[Kon Tiki]

http://www.pasemi.com/news/releases/2005_oct_24_1.html

 

[ImNotLikeThem]

http://www.pasemi.com/news/releases/2005_oct_24_1.html

"THE PWRficient PROCESSOR ROLLOUT

The first PWRficient chip, the PA6T-1682M, which dissipates between just 5-13 watts, depending upon the application, is a dual-core implementation running at 2GHz with two DDR2 memory controllers, 2MB of L2 cache, and a flexible I/O subsystem that supports eight PCI Express controllers, two 10 Gigabit Ethernet XAUI controllers, and four Gigabit Ethernet SGMII controllers sharing 24 serdes lanes. It will sample in the third calendar quarter of 2006, with single-core and quad-core versions due in early and late 2007, respectively, and an eight-core version planned for 2008. "
hmm....

 

[deadhorse32]

"The next wave of microprocessor innovation is contingent on solving the problem of dramatically increased power consumption," said cofounder, president, and CEO Dan Dobberpuhl. "We had to start from scratch, rethinking every step, to achieve our breakthrough performance-per-watt design. The result is a paradigm-shifting processor that has been enthusiastically received by our customers, who look forward to building a new breed of cool, efficient, yet high-performance, systems around the PWRficient processor."

:O

 

[Nerevar]

"THE PWRficient PROCESSOR ROLLOUT

The first PWRficient chip, the PA6T-1682M, which dissipates between just 5-13 watts, depending upon the application, is a dual-core implementation running at 2GHz with two DDR2 memory controllers, 2MB of L2 cache, and a flexible I/O subsystem that supports eight PCI Express controllers, two 10 Gigabit Ethernet XAUI controllers, and four Gigabit Ethernet SGMII controllers sharing 24 serdes lanes. It will sample in the third calendar quarter of 2006, with single-core and quad-core versions due in early and late 2007, respectively, and an eight-core version planned for 2008. "
hmm....

that's nice and all, but PWRficient isn't making the chips for Rev, are they?

And isn't one of the big reasons (ok, the publicly stated reason) that Apple left IBM for Intel was because they wanted chips that consumed less power, something IBM couldn't provide?

 

[monkeyrun]

that's nice and all, but PWRficient isn't making the chips for Rev, are they?

And isn't one of the big reasons (ok, the publicly stated reason) that Apple left IBM for Intel was because they wanted chips that consumed less power, something IBM couldn't provide?

that's the reason apple officially said.

but in fact there's more to the story.

 

[Donnie]

I've been reading some articles and forums (beyond3d ect) for a little while and while I know a lot of people are dubious about it I'd like to see a PPU used in Revolution. Possibly a cut down AGEIA PhysX processor with the same physics power as a single 3.2Ghz PPE CPU but at a fraction of the power consumption (say 8-10 watts). Add a 2.2Ghz dual core PPE CPU with 1MB cache on 90nm process (around 35 watts) and you get a combined peak performance of 91Gflops at only around 43-45 watts. Plus with more cache per core the CPU/PPU should get closer to its peak performance then 360 with its total of 115Gflops peak CPU power.

Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not suggesting some kind of magical way to get all the same power as XBox 360 at 40% less power consumption. What I'm suggesting is a tradoff of some flexibility (general purpose CPU power) for much less power consumption (only 53Gflops would be general purpose and the other 38Gflops would be only usable in physics calculations). But apparently one core (38GFlops) of 360's CPU is earmarked for physics anyway, so IMO its a good tradeoff.