Moonjt9
No Silksong? = Delivering the pain.
After buying both ps4 pro and ps5 pro Honestly this really solidifies my conviction to skip ps6 launch and wait for Ps6 pro. Feels like the same trap that Xbox series x and s fell into.
[MLiD] PS6 & PSSR2 Dev Update
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Hype
viveks86
Member
Do you really think GAF would not find issues to rage about?If PSSR 2 delivers - and I really hope it does - what will some people rage about here?
Bojji
Member
Bojji
Member
Based on rumors there will be 2 separate devices (probably with similar launch date):
- PS6 Portable
- PS6 "normal"
And now we don't know what will happen next (for sure). PS6 Portable may have separate library (like Vita or PSP) or they will treat it like Series S/X - every game would have to work on both. If that's the case we have repeat of current gen where developers are held back by super weak device, in this case with 0.5 GPU power of regular PS5 (5-6x weaker than PS6 GPU).
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PSSR is the R&D for FSR4 and the collaboration. You are assuming they would get this same FSR4 quality if Sony wouldn't have researched PSSR first. What if AMD decides to lock FSR5 or other features in future cards (for example FP4)? Sony would get a full generation with FSR4? What about the handheld?
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5-6 weaker GPU and 4x lower resolution and probably half framerate. Why are you comparing directly the handheld console with a full desktop one?
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vivftp
Member
The portable will have the benefit of scaling to a locked lower resolution (likely 1080p) and will have PSSR2 and other advances like frame gen to help it punch well above its weight class. There are a lot of variables that could help the Portable to scale to the PS6 without hindering the PS6 itself. The fact that Sony are deeply involved in engineering the hardware and software along with AMD should give hope that they're aiming to minimize potential bottlenecks that the Portable could cause. Cerny is all about making devs lives easier and reducing bottlenecks and pressure points. It's logical to conclude that they'll be going into next gen with that same philosophy in mind.
kevboard
Member
no, I want a low spec anchor system that developers have to optimise for.
I love that the Series S exists, I am sad Sony didn't have a similar system this gen to make devs put even more effort into optimising their games (the Series S being the loser system sadly means they can just release sub-par ports and noone cares).
when devs are forced to optimise for a low spec machine, it means the high spec machines will get cleaner looking, better running games.
I would bet for example, that the Series S is one of the biggest factors in the trend of nearly every game this generation having a 60fps mode.
they already have to accommodate a system with only 1/3 the GPU power. so, making that Series S mode a tiny bit prettier and turning that into a performance mode is usually pretty straightforward.
so developers often have no excuse not to offer a 60fps mode... unless it's a CPU limit because UE5 sucks (see Hellblade 2)
the PS6 Portable would have a downgraded CPU as well, which means it would essentially guarantee a 60fps mode on all home console versions of games.
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Bojji
Member
Because IF devs are forced to make 1:1 games on both (like with Series consoles) then it's quite fucking relevant.
Reality is: many games on PS6 will have 1080p internal resolution, where you go from that with 5-6x weaker hardware?
vivftp
Member
A PS6 game with a 1080p internal resolution will be scaled up to 4k via PSSR2. That same game on the Portable will have an even lower internal resolution on the Portable and will be scaled up to 1080p via PSSR2.
Bojji
Member
5x less internal resolution is below 540p. Ok.
Felessan
Member
30fps 400p mode with some cuts in setting?
You don't really need 1080p internal resolution for 8" screen
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vivftp
Member
DLSS 2.0 from 5 years ago could already convincingly upscale 540p to 1080p, do you think the next gen of PSSR will have trouble doing that?
Bojji
Member
Of course, but at the same time there are limits what scaling can do. On the other hand some people may tolerate it if it's (PSSR2/3) close in quality to DLSS4:
It's surprisingly... not absolutely tragic.
Bojji
Member
Of course he think it
I guess you won't make fun about Switch 2 low resolutions anymore.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
mckmas8808 As I said in the other thread, Sony is getting the devs ready with tools and documentation.
MLID keeps referring to it as PS6 handheld. Seems Sony is going to mandate support if "they NEED us to support it directly eventually."
The number of PS5 low power mode patching is low, Sony is getting annoyed, so they will 100% mandate support if adoption is too low.
Just because MLiD refers to it as a PS6 handheld doesn't mean Sony does.
I told yall Kepler wouldn't know if Sony will mandate this handheld to play every PS6 game. He can't know that. And I'm not even sure Sony knows at this point. But they also barely mandate anything, so why mandate this?
Series S SUCKS! And I hope Sony understands that. I'm sure Mark Cerny has told them that the "problem" with the Series S
Hold on.................NO WAY Sony will release three "consoles" at once.
- PS handheld
- PS 6s
- PS 6x
How can anyone believe Sony would do this? What would be the point of having so many pieces of hardware?
Why do yall keep calling it the PS6 portable?
vivftp
Member
It uses the same hardware base as the PS6 itself. It makes sense that it's be a PS6 Portable so they can co-market it a part of next gen.
And next gen I think we get:
PS6 digital
PS6 disc
PS6 Portable
PS6 Lite (box with the guts of the Portable)
PS6 Pro in the middle of the gen
Boy bawang
Member
My understanding is that this is what Sony wanted to release.
If it is marketed as a PS5 portable while releasing at he same time as the PS6, then SOny is even more retarded.
And if it is marketed as its own thing like a PSP-3, then get ready for sub 20 millions sales considering how everyone already struggles with dev times.
PlayStaytion
Member
Be anything but don't make Microsoft's box look generic.
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viveks86
Member
The thing about a 1080p game on a PS6 is it is likely path traced at 30 fps (quality mode) or heavily ray traced at 60 (performance mode).
Just halving the framerate of performance mode gives you 2x as well as covers for CPU throttling. Then apply 1/4th the resolution as the absolute minimum. Limiting the RT further to just RTGI should maintain the overall look of the game as well. So 540p30 with PSSR 2.0 (or 3.0) upscaled to 1080p may actually be viable.
This is assuming 1080p is the bare minimum next gen. Who knows what UE 6 will do to this math? lol
So I share the same concerns, but as long as they don't design the handheld with some weird bottleneck, it might actually be ok this time around. With a 60 fps mode increasingly being available on every game AND AI upscaling, they may be able to avoid a Series S situation. The problem with the Series S is that you can't afford to hit rock bottom resolutions to overcome the memory/bandwidth bottleneck as AI upscaling isn't viable.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Clueless.
The reason why they are sling-shotting off of PS5 is so they start out with a complete catalogue. Also being x64 based they can pull in from the larger PC market as it won't require too much code refactoring.
The reason why Vita failed was that it was just an outlier tech wise. Noone wanted the risk of developing for a system with all sorts of bespoke features that were simply not applicable to anything else, and crucially at a scale greater than typical for mobile.
This thing is going to be like a Steam Deck on steroids, that they can price competitively because it remains inside their walled-garden licensing model.
I doubt they'd ever consider opening it up to the extent that it could work as a Steam Deck equivalent, but the reality is that the hardware will be functionally equivalent and capable. At the end of the day its just an AMD x64 mobile APU running a Linux derived OS... What does that sound like?
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mayham2199
Member
To be fair the Series S was a mess created by MS that could have been easily fixed by just giving it more RAM. That was really the whole issue with the Series S.
With all these other low power handhelds coming out and the Nintendo Switch 2 it doesn't really matter anymore. Devs are going to focus on all those devices now. The PS6 handheld will just be one more of those devices. The best you can hope for is that the handheld fails and Sony devs no longer have to focus on it but every other dev will still be focusing on low powered handhelds for their future games.
Felessan
Member
It doesn't look very well on 27" 4K, but on 8" it looks surprisingly... normal
Being a small screen hide a lot of artefacts and imperfections (like people play just fine on SteamDeck and Sw1/Sw2)
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
PS6 handled
PaintTinJr
Member
I'd recommend going back and listening to Cerny's technical seminar on the PS5 Pro to see the simple algebra of system power in action to see why this will be mandated for PS6 native games.
If you've only got 160watts of power (230watts max) and Moore's law gains are slowing to 1.5x against cost and you've just cut that further by using 35% less power versus OG PS5, and you need to add high quality AI upscaling and PT denoising capability and best in class next gen PT capability as your generational leap, the algebra says you need to lower the native PS5 logic/rasterized game power use on the new silicon to a little as possible just to have the processing power headroom to power upscaling/denoising and high quality PT in whatever is left over after you've added new PS6 logic/raster improvements.
The fact that it would nicely align with low power and releasing a PS6 portable too is just the happenstance that makes a PS6 portable a easy viable option, now IMO with devs able to hit two birds with one stone.
1920x1080=2.073.600
854x480=409.920
2.073.600/409.920 =5,0585
4k is 4x times 1080p. 1080p is 4x times 540p
It's pretty clear what a handheld using PSSR 2 is going to scale from 480p and 540p internal resolution in demanded games. They can lower the framerate too and lower the settings.
The problem with Series S is not even the CPU or GPU, it's the memory pool.
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