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[Frodo]

You can't be serious if you are saying people judged Anakin because he was too powerful the same way people are judging Rey now.

That never happened. Completely re visioning history.


He has always been annoying and people always complained about that, but never because he could do things because it was always implied he was this super prodigy kid because of the Force. But suddenly Rey needs training.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Anakin being super amazing, having tons of midi-whatever and part of a prophecy was criticized to hell and back, don't know what kind of critiques you have been reading.

Superman's whole concept from the get go is a being much more powerful than humans.
I mean, that is his fucking name. SUPER. Man. Yes, but again, as soon as a woman is shown in previews doing similar things, she's criticized as being too small and frail-looking to be believable.

James Bond is from campy spy novellas written almost 7 decades ago. And yet they're still making movies starring the same character doing the same things with the same women being treated as the same sex objects. Your hand-waving doesn't undo this fact.

Simply put, people have completely different expectations about these characters and the struggles they face. Different context, universes and legacy. Which does nothing to explain why the core concepts of these characters don't receive the same scrutiny as being "Mary Sue" characters, and Rey does. She faces the same story arc as Luke in his first movie, yet he gets a pass and she doesn't.

It has absolutely nothing to do with them being men. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I'll just take your word for it.

Shitty examples for a shitty rhetoric But not shitty enough that you could counter it without trying to just place the blame on "different time periods and expectations," as though that somehow explains why these characters still exist, are still popular as all hell, and get almost no shit for being Marty Stu characters (besides Superman, who gets shit for being too powerful, but that wasn't my point. My point was he can look thin as fuck and nobody really says anything about how he looks too weak to be doing the shit he does. Godot shows up, and suddenly she's anorexic Wonder Woman and simply not believable),

Most people hate Superman cuz he's too perfect. I'm guilty of using the same argument against him even though ironically I like Goku. But both characters are different to me.

My argument for him wasn't that people don't hate his perfection. My argument about how he's treated different is that, in the latest movies, his size is forgiven but Gadot's wasn't. Because a woman who's thin can't be powerful but a man somehow can.
.

Who says this? Who in the world thinks lil Ani killing that droid thing is "believable"? Lil Ani doesn't get some pass, he's widely reviled.

By what criteria do you claim "nothing much" gets said about how ridiculous he is? That movie is fifteen years old, lots of the fandom has spent the intervening years trying to forget that movie even exists -- JJ Abrams apparently included.

Fans have spent the last several years trying to forget the prequels exist because they're shitty movies. Anakin is reviled for being written, directed, and acted horribly.

In the years since those movies were shat onto the screen, there has been nary a mention of how godlike overpowered he was presented. I'm not saying there was zero mention of it, but nowhere near the bitching Rey is getting for the same thing.




Edit: Going to Christmas dinner now. Happy holidays everyone!

 

[JABEE]

Wasn't it implied that Rey was a student of Luke at the academy but had her memory wiped? Can't most of her abilities be explained by that fact?

This is lens I used while viewing Rey's development as a user of the force. There was an "awakening" in her powers. She was slowly remembering how to fight, how to use mind tricks, how to use the force in many ways.

She didn't remember she could do certain things until she was forced to do so and reminded of her power.

We don't really know what happened to Rey besides fuzzy flashbacks that imply she had a relationship with Luke as a child.

There are also certain situations where children are born with the ability to pick things up very quickly. They are prodigies with talents that require nurturing.

 

[Warm Machine]

The movie expertly outlines Rey's character, the strengths, and insecurities. I don't see what is worth discussing or what is contemptuous here.

 

[Icyflamez96]

That's because it's barely used. Gary Stu usually just goes by the moniker "badass".

Anecdotally, the only other time I recall the Mary/Marty Sue/Stu term being thrown at a character was Kirito (a male) from Sword Art Online.

 

[LordJim]

You can't be serious if you are saying people judged Anakin because he was too powerful the same way people are judging Rey now.

That never happened. Completely re visioning history.


He has always been annoying and people always complained about that, but never because he could do things because it was always implied he was this super prodigy kid because of the Force. But suddenly Rey needs training.

If you think people did not criticize a 6 year old kid doing pod racing and winning space battles, then you are rewritting history

 

[The One and Done™]

You can't be serious if you are saying people judged Anakin because he was too powerful the same way people are judging Rey now.

That never happened. Completely re visioning history.


He has always been annoying and people always complained about that, but never because he could do things because it was always implied he was this super prodigy kid because of the Force. But suddenly Rey needs training.

It's pretty hilarious right?

 

[commish]

Anecdotally, the only other time I recall the Mary/Marty Sue/Stu term being thrown at a character was Kirito (a male) from Sword Art Online.

Interestingly enough, same here, and it's why I stopped watching SAO.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

So.....not sure if anyone has seen it but apparently Disney Infinity spoilers who Rey is...read the spoiler if true it is meh.

Edit: It was debunked.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If you think people did not criticize a 6 year old kid doing pod racing and winning space battles, then you are rewritting history

They mostly criticized Lloyd's acting. Some people criticized the age of the character, but a lot of the questioning of his abilities got swept under the rug mostly because everyone knew he was Darth Vader, so nobody was like "it's bullshit he's so strong with the Force!" If anything, it wasn't that he was a little kid winning space battles, it's that he wasn't cool enough while doing it.

Of course, the fact a large section of the fanbase pretty mercilessly shit on an 8 year old for about 10 years straight should have maybe tipped us off that they weren't going to react very well to a young woman being a more dynamic version of Luke than Luke was.

So.....not sure if anyone has seen it

No, people have seen it and discovered it was bad reporting. Not sure if you've seen that but it was more or less literally a game of telephone that ended badly.

 

[The One and Done™]

So.....not sure if anyone has seen it but apparently Disney Infinity spoilers who Rey is...read the spoiler if true it is meh.

That's been debunked already I believe.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

If you think people did not criticize a 6 year old kid doing pod racing and winning space battles, then you are rewritting history

So let's just go ahead and say you're absolutely right. Let's say Anakin got the same amount of shit for being overpowered as Rey is getting now. Hell, let's go nuts and say Luke got the same amount of criticism too.

This would just show that the Star Wars movies have a long history of overpowered main characters with loosely-defined ties to the Force who are somehow able to harness it beyond any ability one would reasonably expect. So Rey being overpowered isn't any more stupid than it was for either of the others.

But yet this thread is still thundering on with complaints about how stupidly overpowered she was and how that doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe. Despite the fact that it absolutely fits.

Criticizing Rey for being overpowered and not fitting into the Star Wars universe is like a baseball fan complaining that Barry Bonds took steroids while he's wearing a Mark McGwire jersey.

Now I'm leaving for real. Christmas dinner is calling. Happy holidays!

 

[Frodo]

If you think people did not criticize a 6 year old kid doing pod racing and winning space battles, then you are rewritting history

The power of reading comprehension.

There is a "the same way people are judging Rey now" at the end of the sentence quantifying the amount of criticism. Yes, people did complain about that, but of all the Phantom Menace problems, it wasn't even on the top 5, and everyone just dismissed that as it was part of what being a Froce sensitive person is. Search for Mary Sue on Google and a Star Wars article about Rey will be amongst the top results.

 

[Aylinato]

The main problem is that she taps into the force when the plot needs her too. It wouldn't be an issue if she had knowledge of the force prior to the events in the movie. Fact is she doesn't, she makes that clear when talking with Han on the Falcon. She was a scavenger on Jakku with no knowledge of about any of the events in the original trilogy. The problem is not about her having an awakening, it is about how poorly the movie shows that.

No. She was using the force long before the jungle scene vs kylo, and kylo+giant hologram dude both mentioned she's becoming aware of her powers fast and they need to seduce her to their side. You ignore that she's been growing the entire movie with her powers including when she touched the light saber. I mean you can't ignore her growth in the movie just because you want to make your argument

 

[LordJim]

So let's just go ahead and say you're absolutely right. Let's say Anakin got the same amount of shit for being overpowered as Rey is getting now. Hell, let's go nuts and say Luke got the same amount of criticism too.

This would just show that the Star Wars movies have a long history of overpowered main characters with loosely-defined ties to the Force who are somehow able to harness it beyond any ability one would reasonably expect. So Rey being overpowered isn't any more stupid than it was for either of the others.

But yet this thread is still thundering on with complaints about how stupidly overpowered she was and how that doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe. Despite the fact that it absolutely fits.
!

Here is a simpler explanation.
People did not really like it then, peopel still do not like it. SURPRISE.
Have a nice Christmas dinner .

The power of reading comprehension.

There is a "the same way people are judging Rey now" at the end of the sentence quantifying the amount of criticism. Yes, people did complain about that, but of all the Phantom Menace problems, it wasn't even on the top 5, and everyone just dismissed that as it was part of what being a Froce sensitive person is. Search for Mary Sue on Google and a Star Wars article about Rey will be amongst the top results.

That's because the Phantom Menace was a much shittier movie overall and we had more things to complain about. And people did not really dismiss it, as I said.
But the prequels had much more serious problems.
For this movie, which is much better, the characterization of the lead character stands out.
You can make it a gender based conspiracy, if you want.

 

[Branduil]

Anecdotally, the only other time I recall the Mary/Marty Sue/Stu term being thrown at a character was Kirito (a male) from Sword Art Online.

And the level of bullshit that Kirito lives on is a completely different one from Rey. We're talking about a character who is automatically the best at any game he plays, who pulls skills out of his ass that no one else in the game has(like dual wielding), who makes every female character instantly fall in love with him(even his cousin who lives with him like a sister), who attracts a rogue AI program that wants to be his daughter(he then hacks the game from the inside to reprogram her to permanently be his "daughter" so the death trap MMO they're stuck in won't kill her), and who magically overcomes a paralysis effect from the literal god of the game through sheer willpower(because that's how video games work).

 

[Brakke]

But yet this thread is still thundering on with complaints about how stupidly overpowered she was and how that doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe. Despite the fact that it absolutely fits.

The very subject of this thread is to discuss the question "Is Rey Overpowered". Is anybody "thundering"?

 

[commish]

The power of reading comprehension.

There is a "the same way people are judging Rey now" at the end of the sentence quantifying the amount of criticism. Yes, people did complain about that, but of all the Phantom Menace problems, it wasn't even on the top 5, and everyone just dismissed that as it was part of what being a Froce sensitive person is. Search for Mary Sue on Google and a Star Wars article about Rey will be amongst the top results.

TPM had about 2,000 problems, the least of which was a supporting character being overpowered. TFA actually has relatively few problems, so the attention is focused on those minor issues people have. Common sense.

Further, everyone readily agreed that it was bullshit how Anakin flew to space and blew shit up. There was no one debating otherwise, so naturally there was less discussion about issues with the Anakin silliness.

 

[KidOmega]

I do not believe Rey was a Mary Sue. I'm sorry but those making that claim are dead wrong. There is a tinge of sexism there whether you want to see it or not.

But if you're going to stick to that opinion then by that logic Finn was also a Gary Stu. He said himself he'd only been on one raid, but became a master fighter in a starfighter and held his own with a light saber against Kylo Ren. He said he was otherwise a janitor. So yeah...

 

[Frodo]

That's because the Phantom Menace was a much shittier movie overall and we had more things to complain about. And people did not really dismiss it, as I said.
But the prequels had much more serious problems.
For this movie, which is much better, the characterization of the lead character stands out.
You can make it a gender based conspiracy, if you want.

You can call it a conspiracy to dismiss everyone’s argument as much as you want, but can you deny the fact that women are usually judged much harder on what they do than their male counterparts?

I mean, if this thread isn't a prime example of that I don't know what it. In a Universe completely inconsistent where the Force always acts to serve a purpose on the plot, not ever being defined by a set of rules, why is everyone focusing on Rey? There are plenty of stances on the film that justify her arc and yet those not count because of arbitrary reasons that are not used when looking at Luke or even Anakin. I never saw people calling Luke or Anakin a Gary Stu, or for that matter never heard that term until today in this very same thread.

 

[Afrodium]

I think Rey does more with the force in TFA than Obi-Wan does in ANH.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That was a good read. Thanks, OP.

Regardless of whether or not Rey is "overpowered," she's a pretty damn cool character as presented in The Force Awakens.

I do kind of wish they ended Finn's "but you're a girl!" incredulity act after they left Jakku. I get that doing so gave them a good excuse to make their relationship a bit more playful, but it felt like the creators were constantly telling us, "You see, this is a strong girl character!" Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather she were just strong and that fact wasn't terribly surprising to anyone else in the film.

 

[Brakke]

Search for Mary Sue on Google and a Star Wars article about Rey will be amongst the top results.

I got one Salon article "“Star Wars” doesn't have a heroine problem: Arguing over whether Rey's a “Mary Sue” is missing the point" and a review of (meditation on?) the new film from the feminist-inflected "nerd culture" website, The Mary Sue. The Mary Sue's review says "I saw The Force Awakens, and everything changed. 1) I fell in love with Rey"

So like. What was your point in telling me to do this?

Oh actually there's an io9 piece, too. "Please Stop Spreading This Nonsense that Rey From Star Wars Is a “Mary Sue”"

 

[commish]

Some of you are basically saying that any criticism of Rey is because that person is sexist. That's just silly and counterproductive.

This is how this thread has gone:

Person A: "I think it's weird how Rey was capable of using Force powers so well without any training."

Person B: "Oh, did you have a problem when Anakin won the podrace? No. It's because he has a penis. Therefore, you're sexist for questioning Rey."

Person A: "Well, has anyone else been able to use Force powers like Jedi mind tricks without being taught?"

Person B: "Stop talking, sexist scum. Move along."

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think Rey does more with the force in TFA than Obi-Wan does in ANH.

She does, but she also had a teacher who was showing her what she could do along the way, and was in a situation that forced her (no pun intended) to push herself.

This is a farmer who has just left the farm, has never used a sword before, has just learned about the existence of the force, and is trying this for the first time. Within one minute, he's blocking point blank laser fire three times in a row while blind.

Luke did not get shit for pulling this off.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I got one Salon article "“Star Wars” doesn't have a heroine problem: Arguing over whether Rey's a “Mary Sue” is missing the point" and a review of (meditation on?) the new film from the feminist-inflected "nerd culture" website, The Mary Sue. The Mary Sue's review says "I saw The Force Awakens, and everything changed. 1) I fell in love with Rey"

So like. What was your point in telling me to do this?

Oh actually there's an io9 piece, too. "Please Stop Spreading This Nonsense that Rey From Star Wars Is a “Mary Sue”"

More than one

Some of you are basically saying that any criticism of Rey is because that person is sexist. That's just silly and counterproductive.

This is how this thread has gone:

Person A: "I think it's weird how Rey was capable of using Force powers so well without any training."

Person B: "Oh, did you have a problem when Anakin won the podrace? No. It's because he has a penis. Therefore, you're sexist for questioning Rey."

Person A: "Well, has anyone else been able to use Force powers like Jedi mind tricks without being taught?"

Person B: "Stop talking, sexist scum. Move along."

Yah, that is exactly how the thread has gone...right.

People just find it odd that there is hysteria over this when the same shit could be said about Luke. Screw bringing up TPM.

She does, but she also had a teacher who was showing her what she could do along the way, and was in a situation that forced her (no pun intended) to push herself.

This is a farmer who has just left the farm, has never used a sword before, has just learned about the existence of the force, and is trying this for the first time. Within one minute, he's blocking point blank laser fire three times in a row while blind.

Luke did not get shit for pulling this off.

Exactly.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Some of you are basically saying that any criticism of Rey is because that person is sexist. That's just silly and counterproductive.

This is how this thread has gone:

Person A: "I think it's weird how Rey was capable of using Force powers so well without any training."

Person B: "Oh, did you have a problem when Anakin won the podrace? No. It's because he has a penis. Therefore, you're sexist for questioning Rey."

Person A: "Well, has anyone else been able to use Force powers like Jedi mind tricks without being taught?"

Person B: "Stop talking, sexist scum. Move along."

Hyperbole, of course, but that response is totally valid. Why are people questioning Rey when they almost certainly did not even think to question Luke or Anakin's spontaneous abilities?

 

[Frodo]

I got one Salon article "“Star Wars” doesn't have a heroine problem: Arguing over whether Rey's a “Mary Sue” is missing the point" and a review of (meditation on?) the new film from the feminist-inflected "nerd culture" website, The Mary Sue. The Mary Sue's review says "I saw The Force Awakens, and everything changed. 1) I fell in love with Rey"

So like. What was your point in telling me to do this?

Oh actually there's an io9 piece, too. "Please Stop Spreading This Nonsense that Rey From Star Wars Is a “Mary Sue”"

I mean, TFA has been out for like a week, and yet the Mary Sue results are infested with Star Wars articles debating whether or not Rey is a Mary Sue. That much is clear, right?

Now, I was replying to people saying Anakin got THE SAME amount of criticism for his powers in TPM. That, most categorically, never happened.

 

[commish]

Hyperbole, of course, but that response is totally valid. Why are people questioning Rey when they almost certainly did not even think to question Luke or Anakin's spontaneous abilities?

They did question Anakin.

Luke was being trained at that time by a Jedi master. You don't think that matters?

 

[Afrodium]

She does, but she also had a teacher who was showing her what she could do along the way, and was in a situation that forced her (no pun intended) to push herself.

This is a farmer who has just left the farm, has never used a sword before, has just learned about the existence of the force, and is trying this for the first time. Within one minute, he's blocking point blank laser fire three times in a row while blind.

Luke did not get shit for pulling this off.

If blocking some lasers was the extent of Rey's usage of the force I don't think she'd be getting shit either. In ANH Luke blocks those lasers and makes the million-to-one Death Star shot at the climax. In TFA Rey uses the force to read the mind of Kylo Ren, best him in battle, do Jedi mind tricks, stealth through a heavily guarded military command center, impossibly pilot the Millennium Falcon, and force-pull Luke's lightsaber. Additionally, Luke's mentor was an actual Jedi, while Rey's was a smuggler who went on adventures with a Jedi.

 

[Brakke]

I never saw people calling Luke or Anakin a Gary Stu, or for that matter never heard that term until today in this very same thread.

But why would they? He predates that term by a good amount. Plus he already has a word: monomyth.

More than one

Therefore what? Of the top five there, 3 are enthusiastic about Rey, one is about how the trailers have scenes that didn't make the movie, and one is coverage of Max Landis's tweets and ensuing discussion. None of these pieces support or endorse the appellation as applied to Rey.

So appealing to Google just tells us something we know already: there is a conversation here. If we wanna go ahead and ascribe authority to Google's sort algorithm on that News results page, we can see clearly that the Mary Sue accusation basically doesn't stick: people refuting it are more popular than people promoting it.

I mean, TFA has been out for like a week, and yet the Mary Sue results are infested with Star Wars articles debating whether or not Rey is a Mary Sue. That much is clear, right?

Now, I was replying to people saying Anakin got THE SAME amount of criticism for his powers in TPM. That, most categorically, never happened.

*Two* results constitutes "infection"? And, as you say, the movie just came out. Once the SEO dies down I wouldn't be surprised to see those fall off.

I don't think asking "did Anakin get the same amount of criticism" is very instructive. That's not apples-to-apples, there were a million more-pressing issues to discuss when it came to The Phantom Menace. What you need to make your case is people who 1) think Rey is overpowered in a way that makes her not interesting and 2) when confronted about Anakin don't concede that the same holds for him.

 

[commish]

If blocking some lasers was the extent of Rey's usage of the force I don't think she'd be getting shit either. In ANH Luke blocks those lasers and makes the million-to-one Death Star shot at the climax. In TFA Rey uses the force to read the mind of Kylo Ren, best him in battle, do Jedi mind tricks, stealth through a heavily guarded military command center, impossibly pilot the Millennium Falcon, and force-pull Luke's light saber. Additionally, Luke's mentor was an actual Jedi, while Rey's was a smuggler who went on adventures with a Jedi.

Great summary of why I have a problem with the Luke comparison. It's just not on the same level of the stuff Rey pulled off, and I can't believe there are people here acting as if it's on the same level.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

They did question Anakin.

Not really. They questioned why he didn't look or act cooler. They didn't question that he was able to do all that shit because everyone knew he was going to be Darth Vader, the baddest badass in the whole galaxy.

It wasn't that he was able to race pods or blow up starships. It was that he was too young to really be the badass we wanted him to be, and that he wasn't a great child actor on top of that.

So a lot of us basically wiped our ass with an 8 year old's ghost of a career for the next decade plus.

Again, it's not surprising similar aspects of the fanbase would then flip out at the idea this young woman could be a better Luke than Luke.

This reaction occurring after having seen a film titled "The Force Awakens" makes it a little sillier.

 

[entremet]

Not really. They questioned why he didn't look or act cooler. They didn't question that he was able to do all that shit because everyone knew he was going to be Darth Vader, the baddest badass in the whole galaxy.

It wasn't that he was able to race pods or blow up starships. It was that he was too young to really be the badass we wanted him to be, and that he wasn't a great child actor on top of that.

So a lot of us basically wiped our ass with an 8 year old's ghost of a career for the next decade plus.

Again, it's not surprising similar aspects of the fanbase would then flip out at the idea this young woman could be a better Luke than Luke.

This reaction occurring after having seen a film titled "The Force Awakens" makes it a little sillier.

The Force didn't just awaken. It got a steroid shot to the heart a la Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction lol.

 

[MikeDown]

No. She was using the force long before the jungle scene vs kylo, and kylo+giant hologram dude both mentioned she's becoming aware of her powers fast and they need to seduce her to their side. You ignore that she's been growing the entire movie with her powers including when she touched the light saber. I mean you can't ignore her growth in the movie just because you want to make your argument

I think there is a misconception between "growing" and using her abilities when it is convenient & when the plot wants her to. Snoke only plans to seduce her after Kylo explains his experience trying to interrogate her. There is NO mention of her having any connection to the force prior to her interaction with Luke's/Anikan's saber. If you read the OP there is alot of valid observations to Rey's character that can explain a vast number of "problems" with her. My critique is the film didn't present these things to the audience well enough. And for that matter Rey's character isn't the only thing it didn't do a good job and presenting, so don't think I'm shitting on her. My only complaint about her character is that she doesn't seem to have any character negative characteristics, everything else that is wrong has to do with how the movie was filmed and edited; not highlighting things that needed to have been more developed.

No, I didn't mean you specifically. Just that this argument seems to stem from that point for a lot of people.

If the same character presented as the Force-sensitive hero with unknown limits who does amazing things with little to no instruction in TFA had a dick, I have a feeling he'd get a lot more respect than Rey is getting. And I have proof. His name is Luke.

I getcha & see where you are coming from. The problem is you use that in your argument to simply dismiss anything that you disagree with.

 

[Frodo]

In TFA Rey uses the force to read the mind of Kylo Ren,

Tbqh, she accidently reads it, possibly triggered by Ren himself, when she is trying to defend herself. She didn't counciously tried to read his mind and succeded.

best him in battle

After he was injured TWICE. Once by Chewie blasting his leg, and another by Finn (who can't even use the Force, btw).

do Jedi mind tricks

She fails twice, so it's not like she just learned instantly. And she had also read Ren's mind at the time, and probably that triggered the ability.

stealth through a heavily guarded military command center.

Just like Finn and Han and Chewie, a 8 feet tall hairy bipedal dog.

impossibly pilot the Millennium Falcon

She had previous experience as a pilot

and force-pull Luke's light saber..

It's the climax. If Luke can get a pass to destroy the Death Star at the climax, she should get a pass to force-pull a light saber.

 

[shem935]

Great summary of why I have a problem with the Luke comparison. It's just not on the same level of the stuff Rey pulled off, and I can't believe there are people here acting as if it's on the same level.

I'm still convinced this is just power creep/having the technology to show the force in more depth/wanting to entertain an audience. Rey's character is really not that big of a deal. Somehow acting like the abilities she displayed aren't acceptable in a universe of laser swords and magic force powers seems silly.

 

[PopeReal]

Great summary of why I have a problem with the Luke comparison. It's just not on the same level of the stuff Rey pulled off, and I can't believe there are people here acting as if it's on the same level.

Why can't Rey pull off magic stuff in this magic universe? I have yet to hear a good reason.

This is the story they are telling. It is their story to tell.

People throwing out this notion that the rules say that this new Jedi can't be this powerful this fast are just saying random shit. There are no rules in place that keep all Jedi at the same level. See Yoda. Now see the Jedi killed by lowly droids. Tell me the rules again that say Rey can't be who she is.

 

[benicillin]

I'm still convinced this is just power creep.

It partially is. I mean Kylo is able to pull off stuff with the Force that we've never even seen in the movies and he's portrayed as someone who barely has control or training over their powers.

 

[Faiz]

Anecdotally, the only other time I recall the Mary/Marty Sue/Stu term being thrown at a character was Kirito (a male) from Sword Art Online.

Every time The Name of the Wind by Pat Rothfuss comes up its levied at the main character, Kvothe.

 

[Afrodium]

I'd also like to note that it's totally possible to think that Rey is a bit too OP and think that it's still great for the new Star Wars trilogy to have a positive female role model. I'd rather have Rey exist as-is than the movie not have a character like her in it. There's no need to bend over backwards to paint Luke as literally the same character but with a dick (based on what we've seen Rey is just more powerful than Luke, no question) in order to invalidate criticisms of Rey. Just because she's a female doesn't mean she's beyon criticism, and just because she's being criticized doesn't mean people hate the idea of her character.


Plus, nerds love discussing power levels, so when a female character with an unprecented power level showed up with no real reason provided (in this film at least) this was bound to happen.

 

[Hellwarden]

My basic understanding of Star Wars is that if you can't accept that the heroes just pull of miraculous things because "the force is with them" then you probably won't like Star Wars.

Rey does stupid miraculous things because she's attuned to the force or some nonsense. That's Star Wars. Luke did miraculous one in a million things, because he had the force. That's Star Wars.

The series goes for wonder and fancy over logic and to an extent a well written characters.

 

[Speely]

Every time The Name of the Wind by Pat Rothfuss comes up its levied at the main character, Kvothe.

But he's so bad with money!

 

[shem935]

My basic understanding of Star Wars is that if you can't accept that the heroes just pull of miraculous things because "the force is with them" then you probably won't like Star Wars.

Rey does stupid miraculous thing because she's attuned to the force or some nonsense. That's Star Wars. Luke did miraculous one in a million things, because he had the force. That's Star Wars.

The series goes for wonder and fancy over logic and to an extent a well written characters.

Pretty much. These movie have always been vehicles for interesting characters, amazing settings, and fun powers. Ya'll are seriously overthinking this.

 

[commish]

Why can't Rey pull off magic stuff in this magic universe? I have yet to hear a good reason.

This is the story they are telling. It is their story to tell.

People throwing out this notion that the rules say that this new Jedi can't be this powerful this fast are just saying random shit. There are no rules in place that keep all Jedi at the same level. See Yoda. Now see the Jedi killed by lowly droids. Tell me the rules again that say Rey can't be who she is.

I'm totally fine with this. And I said as much before. It's Star Wars, a fantasy. If they want to make Rey do something amazing, then that's fine, I'll bite. I still love the movie and have already seen it 3 times. That doesn't mean we can't discuss parts of the movie.

Every time The Name of the Wind by Pat Rothfuss comes up its levied at the main character, Kvothe.

That guy is the worst. I read the first book and said I had enough, haha.

 

[PopeReal]

My basic understanding of Star Wars is that if you can't accept that the heroes just pull of miraculous things because "the force is with them" then you probably won't like Star Wars.

Rey does stupid miraculous thing because she's attuned to the force or some nonsense. That's Star Wars. Luke did miraculous one in a million things, because he had the force. That's Star Wars.

The series goes for wonder and fancy over logic and to an extent a well written characters.

Exactly. It's all nonsense but hell of fun.

 

[GhaleonEB]

If blocking some lasers was the extent of Rey's usage of the force I don't think she'd be getting shit either. In ANH Luke blocks those lasers and makes the million-to-one Death Star shot at the climax. In TFA Rey uses the force to read the mind of Kylo Ren, best him in battle, do Jedi mind tricks, stealth through a heavily guarded military command center, impossibly pilot the Millennium Falcon, and force-pull Luke's lightsaber. Additionally, Luke's mentor was an actual Jedi, while Rey's was a smuggler who went on adventures with a Jedi.

This is a good example of the bending over backward to downplay Luke and over sell Rey that has made this topic so frustrating. Luke also sneaks through a Death Star, makes pinpoint shots with a blaster he's never used (closing the doors on Vader), flawlessly pilots a ship he's never been in, blocks laser blasts while blind using a sword for the first time, and channels the force with zero training to make an impossible shot at the end of ANH. He was a farmer. All this has to be handwaved away in order to make the argument against Rey. Meanwhile much of Rey's talents are both explained and demonstrated due to her upbringing and life, in stark contrast to Luke's life on the farm.

Rey's teacher was Kylo Ren; she takes everything he does and applies it herself, to varying degrees of success. The film makes this very clear, from the mind control scene onward. Meanwhile, Luke pulls off everything Obi-wan teachers him instantly as well (try blocking laser blasts while blind. okay done. try using the force to guide you into an impossible shot. okay, done.). It's a direct parallel. But it's Rey that's over powered, somehow.

 

[The One and Done™]

If blocking some lasers was the extent of Rey's usage of the force I don't think she'd be getting shit either. In ANH Luke blocks those lasers and makes the million-to-one Death Star shot at the climax. In TFA Rey uses the force to read the mind of Kylo Ren, best him in battle, do Jedi mind tricks, stealth through a heavily guarded military command center, impossibly pilot the Millennium Falcon, and force-pull Luke's lightsaber. Additionally, Luke's mentor was an actual Jedi, while Rey's was a smuggler who went on adventures with a Jedi.

Stop. If Rey had done this in the film people would have flipped their shit even more. At least Rey demonstrated that she was a fighter during her scene on Jakuu. Luke didn't know anything about fighting before.And being a pilot isn't some super special ability. I wish people would stop using it in their arguments. "OMGBBQSAUCE HOW DID SHE FLY DA FALCON!!!!?!?" No one freaked out at Poe for flying a Fighter for the first time. Oh wait a tick....Poe piloting a Fighter actually mirrored Rey piloting the Falcon; shaky start, then figured it out....AMAZING RIGHT?

The most important thing several people have demonstrated thusfar is that they do not understand the force and how it works. The force doesn't make you strong, doesn't make you a better fighter, doesn't make you a great pilot. The force is an intangible thing that connects and balances the universe, which some individuals can connect with and use it to guide them. It's not like some kind of power up.

The thing about Jedi's is not their ability to use the force. It's their training and journey to MASTER use of the force. You'd think they Rey started flying they way people are acting. She used the Jedi mindtrick, which, based on history, is not some super crazy ability you have to train for years to learn. And she used force pull, again, something that's a commonality among force users of all kinds.

Now onto, "BUT ZOMG SHE BEAT REN!! BUT HOWZ!! HE'S A MASTA!!!" Ren isn't even a matured Force user and there are several BLATANT flaws in his own character that explain why he loss. It wasn't, "He's weak and she got a power up". It was a combination of his own flaws (he's hubris, his self doubt, his fear), combined with Rey letting in the force (Maz confirmed that the force was strong in Rey and was able to see that Rey was simply not letting the force flow through her).

What's funny, is that Ren actually dominated Rey in their first encounter, fully healthy, not distracted by anything. Had that been the case in the final scene, he would have dominated her again. But let's pull back for a second; his intent in the fight wasn't to kill her. He wanted to lure her to his side. He wasn't even attempting to go all out. Had that been the case, she'd be dead.

But here's the best part. We get more movies to explore both characters. And I can't wait serve crow to all the naysayers crying out "MARY SUE!!! ARRRGHHH!"

 

[igordennis]

This is a good example of the bending over backward to downplay Luke and over sell Rey that has made this topic so frustrating. Luke also sneaks through a Death Star, makes pinpoint shots with a blaster he's never used (closing the doors on Vader), flawlessly pilots a ship he's never been in, blocks laser blasts while blind using a sword for the first time, and channels the force with zero training to make an impossible shot at the end of ANH. He was a farmer. All this has to be handwaved away in order to make the argument against Rey. Meanwhile much of Rey's talents are both explained and demonstrated due to her upbringing and life, in stark contrast to Luke's life on the farm.

Rey's teacher was Kylo Ren; she takes everything he does and applies it herself, to varying degrees of success. The film makes this very clear, from the mind control scene onward. Meanwhile, Luke pulls off everything Obi-wan teachers him instantly as well (try blocking laser blasts while blind. okay done. try using the force to guide you into an impossible shot. okay, done.). It's a direct parallel. But it's Rey that's over powered, somehow. The whole argument is nonsense.

Good post. And the bolded is extremely exasperating. Like can't you see that's what you guys are doing (to an insane level)?

 

[Soriku]

Luke and Rey are basically your standard action protagonists. The ones who have to make it to the end of the story, so they're capable of doing a lot of great things. Or like your Shonen anime main characters who go from zero to hero in the span of a few episodes once they're thrust into battle.

As far as mechanics and piloting goes, Rey must've picked these up as she was growing. She's living alone so it makes sense to pick up some skills when she needs them.