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[igordennis]

Anyway, let's keep in mind that, during the briefing, Luke said that he could make that shot, no sweat. He'd made shots of similar difficulty before, he said.

I felt the film did a good job on establishing Rey as not just a simple scavenger way before she got into Millennium Falcon's cockpit. I mean, on her first shot she is atop of a impossibly long rope searching for parts which she obviously know what they are for and how they work, since she basically refurbishes them before reselling. If you ever climbed a rope you'd know she would have to be fit to do that. She also defends herself against two guys trying to steal BB8 even before Finn had a chance to get close to her. She doesn't want to use the Millennium Falcon because she considers it to be rubbish, which shows she has previous knowledge about the ship and how it operates. So I don't think we need more excuses as to why she is excels as a mechanic (and maybe as a pilot, as Poe can pilot anything, so why can't she do the same thing if she knows how to pilot?) The only difference in between her and Anakin in this point is that Anakin is like 6 years old and can be a formidable mechanic because he has been dismantling stuff since the day he was born and that fact is mentioned out loud, meanwhile they just show Rey's case on-screen.

About Rey being able to use the Force so easily, it seems there is more to the story than what we know, via the flash-back scene. I also agree with OP when he mentions that she, unlike Luke, actually believes in everything about it, and she had previous exposure to it, at least when it comes to its existence and what the Force can do. So when she realises she can use it she just goes on to explore it. I really enjoyed the mind reading scene, btw. Daisy Ridley acting was on point, and you can tell exactly when she realises she can read his mind too.

While ANH straight up had to tell you how an absolutely amazing shot Luke was through dialogue, TFA establishes Rey's character through visual storytelling like said above. What kind of medium is cinema again? Oh yeah a visual medium isn't it? But thats much too hard to understand for some people apparently.

 

[FriendlyGoat]

Rey hasn't learned the force at all at this point though as far as we see, which is the problem.

It's also fairly well-established that to use the force with any kind of effectiveness, you need to be trained or learn it. Rey has done neither of those things, she just sort of does it, and does it with equal or more effectiveness than Kylo, who has had training, quite extensively it seems, even if it is still 'incomplete'. There's an inconsistency with in the "rules" of the universe here.

She was a great character in most aspects I thought that I can't wait to see more of, and Daisy Ridley was great, but her fairly advanced abilities with the force are another hand-waived plot contrivance, of which there are several in this film.

Just because the movie was good or great, and the character is good or great doesn't mean that certain things can't be critiqued or pointed out.

This isn't completely true though. The training isn't all about teaching you the skills, it is also largely about helping one to reach a sort of zen. It's about "letting it in".

A New Hope clearly establishes that to use the force, you have to sort of give yourself up to it and let it in. Luke blocks the shots once he closes the blast shield. He blows up the Death Star when he puts away the computer and let's the force do the work. Even in Empire the whole lesson about lifting the X-wing is because Luke is too focused on making it happen (and his mind was on other things), instead of calming down and letting it happen.

This even applies to the dark side. "Let the hate flow through you" is literally the one direction given to accessing the dark side.

Those are the rules, and the rules TFA follows. In that final fight we visually see, very clearly, Rey giving herself up to the force. It isn't her super fighting skills that let's her defeat Ren, it isn't because she has some super powers, it is because she lets the force flow through her.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

This again makes no sense to me.
Your saying Rey is a god level pilot because she didn't destroy the Millenium Falcon and was able to put Finn(A trained stormtrooper) into combat range of two Tie Fighters.
That makes here a god level pilot?
Meanwhile Luke with experience shooting rodents of unusual size become a god tier pilot just by tapping into the force and he is amongst the skill of fighters like Poe.

This is a even comparison to you?

No no, we're on the same side here. I was basically conceding the point that she was god-tier just to compare her to Luke and say it's no more stupid for her than it is for him. Yet she catches shit and he doesn't.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

No no, we're on the same side here. I was basically conceding the point that she was god-tier just to compare her to Luke and say it's no more stupid for her than it is for him. Yet she catches shit and he doesn't.

Ah gotcha.
I have been blinded by hate!

 

[gutter_trash]

While ANH straight up had to tell you how an absolutely amazing shot Luke was through dialogue, TFA establishes Rey's character through visual storytelling like said above. What kind of medium is cinema again? Oh yeah a visual medium isn't it? But thats much too hard to understand for some people apparently.

and ANH was directed by Lucas himself, a person who liked to over-explain things in his movies.

thank God Lucas did not direct Empire, Return and TFA

(yes, I rank Return higher than ANH)

 

[Sheroking]

Rey is a Mary Sue if you don't believe she had previous beginner training as a Jedi as the flashback hints at.

No, she's not.

The term originally applied to characters who have few if any weaknesses, negative character traits or failures. It's meant to reference a perfect little everything that acts as an avatar for it's author.

The idea that it applies to every character who is prodigiously talented or successful, in any case, doesn't hold up because it's overly broad, and would cover some of the best, most well regarded characters and storylines ever written.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Just watched this, came out today in my country. Man, that was really something. No shitty acting from anyone so that was a surprise. I'm such a fan of John Boyega now, really cared about his character. Han Solo's death wasn't a surprise, mainly because some asshole had spoiled it for me and it was kind of expected anyway. They killed off his character in a good way though. I thought the lightsaber fight in the end was a bit underwhelming.

So why can Rey use the force? I'm assuming Luke's gonna train her to become a Jedi for the next movie.

 

[Dead End Irony]

My biggest issue was that I felt nothing during the lightsaber fight. When Rey grabbed the lightsaber, my thought was, "Ok why wouldn't she win?" After she pulled off the Jedi mind trick, I knew there would be no stopping her in this movie. She was a freight train.

I guess I don't necessary think it's a bad thing. It's just not my style. I guess with age, I've found it hard to root for characters that have too much going for them.

For those familiar with wrestling, I see it like NXT's Finn Balor. Sure he's got the crazy/cool body paint, good looking, got great music, and all of management is seemingly supporting him...now why should I root for him? How do I relate? Why should I ever feel like he's going to lose? Especially when I see him snatch the spotlight from a much more human Hideo Itami?

This was only the first episode in the trilogy, so I know I'm being a bit unfair. I hope episode 8 can bring that sense of uncertainty/relatability with Rey. I need my heroes to get knocked on their ass every now and then.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

So why can Rey use the force? I'm assuming Luke's gonna train her to become a Jedi for the next movie.

We don't know yet. Her flashback hints she's maybe had some training, and is likely from a Force-sensitive family (maybe even Luke's daughter...?).

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I need my heroes to get knocked on their ass every now and then.

Um, she was, twice.

 

[Jonm1010]

I guess as someone that doesn't find ANH the greatest thing ever and wasn't the biggest OT fan growing up(or Star Wars in general) I just don't get the arguments defending Luke or the movies pacing vs this one.

I mean my girlfriend and I literally looked at each other after the Kenobi sequence in confusion with how upset Luke gets and then is just ok quickly after. The entire Death Star sequence is completely plot convenient and any criticism of Rey can easily be leveled at Luke throuout the film.

Probably also why I saw TFA as essentielly a remake in many regards. Characters and all.

 

[Dead End Irony]

Um, she was, twice.

Sure, but I'm talking about REALLY knocked down. Think Rocky/Eye of the Tiger.

Again. I said I was being a bit unfair since this is the first movie, but it's something I'm hoping we'll see in the future.

 

[CronoShot]

I don't think she's quite a Mary Sue, but she's definitely close.

- Tragic backstory through no fault of her own? Check.
- Instantly good at anything she does, whether it be fighting, piloting, and using multiple facets of the force that she just learned existed a couple hours beforehand? Check.
- No real character flaws to speak of. Brave, knowledgeable, and strong. Never complains, always seems to know what to do in any situation.

Luke is similar in most of those regards, but he has some character flaws to compensate. Mainly being kinda whiny, immature, and getting frustrated easily. Particularly when training with Obi-wan and Yoda.

That said, I'm thinking the next movies will reveal that Rey actually was at Luke's jedi academy thing before, and she just doesn't remember for some reason. I think that will be the explanation for her apparent 'instant' mastery of the force.

And I'm not gonna lie, seeing such a strong female character in a huge movie, regardless of any Mary Sue criticisms, is actually quite refreshing.

 

[Lunar15]

She's probably been trained in the force, at least slightly.

It's a weird writing choice, but I get it. We really can't judge much until the series is done.

 

[trembli0s]

Maybe someone can clarify but have we ever had an "awakening" like Rey's in any of the prior movies?

We're talking about a girl who's encounter with the Skywalker lightsaber was so powerful that Snoke felt it halfway across the galaxy. She's like a galactic bug lamp.

I think she's basically being set up to be even stronger than Luke at this point. I could be off as well but seeing as Anakin is still the one who actually brings balance to the force by dropping the Emperor we have a way to get around Luke being the strongest Force user in the galaxy.

 

[MikeDown]

The Force is not some DnD spell book that you must study. You don't need to grind so many experience points to unlock the Jedi Mind trick. That's not how it works.

Never said it was.

I think you are wrong about her not knowing anything about the events of the ot. Shes heard stories but didnt know they were true till she met han.

Actually I think you're right and I misspoke; just not having explicit knowledge about said events or the jedi.

Without training The Force really does enhance people's abilities without any training whatsoever.

There was one line by Luke and his pal about how good a pilot he was; there was one line from Rey explaining she was a pilot.

As a surrogate for the audience, Luke didn't know what the Force was, so he had it quickly explained to him. Then he could suddenly block lasers, fly warplanes, and destroy moon-sized machines of war. Rey had heard of the Force before, so she didn't need it explained to her before she was able to block Ren's mind probe, convince a Storm Trooper to set her free, and Force Grab a lightsaber.

Both are equally stupidly powerful because their movies needed them to be, yet Luke gets hero worship and Rey gets whining. I have no idea Y (get it? It's because she doesn't have a Y chromosome. I'm clever).

So basically I'm a sexist for disagreeing with you? ;P Pretty sure there are more then several lines about Luke being a good pilot, all of them given well before he actually gets into his X-Wing. On the Falcon Obi-Wan teaches Luke on the ways of the force, telling him not to trust his instincts or what have you. You can see the natural progression of how he uses the force in a relatively short amount of time while he is training with the droid. And while his piloting got him past the enemy defenses it was him ultimately relying on what Obi-Wan taught him. Switching off his targeting computer, etc. Like I said the presentation in parts of TFA are executed sloppily and that isn't limited to Rey. Another big issues is the lack of context when it comes to the New Republic.

 

[Auto_aim1]

We don't know yet. Her flashback hints she's maybe had some training, and is likely from a Force-sensitive family (maybe even Luke's daughter...?).

I was kinda thinking about that during the movie but I dunno really. No one dropped any hints.

 

[Jonm1010]

Why isn't the obvious suggestion for Rey's force usage been brought forth? Her father left right? Never came back? In all likelihood he was a strong force user going to Luke's training. Probably died at the hands of Kylo and his back story will probably explain why Rey is so strong with the force and it comes so naturally.

Probably something along the lines of "your father was one of the most naturally gifted force users I ever saw." "You have more strength with the force then anyone I have seen."

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

My biggest issue was that I felt nothing during the lightsaber fight. When Rey grabbed the lightsaber, my thought was, "Ok why wouldn't she win?" After she pulled off the Jedi mind trick, I knew there would be no stopping her in this movie. She was a freight train.

I guess I don't necessary think it's a bad thing. It's just not my style. I guess with age, I've found it hard to root for characters that have too much going for them.

For those familiar with wrestling, I see it like NXT's Finn Balor. Sure he's got the crazy/cool body paint, good looking, got great music, and all of management is seemingly supporting him...now why should I root for him? How do I relate? Why should I ever feel like he's going to lose? Especially when I see him snatch the spotlight from a much more human Hideo Itami?

This was only the first episode in the trilogy, so I know I'm being a bit unfair. I hope episode 8 can bring that sense of uncertainty/relatability with Rey. I need my heroes to get knocked on their ass every now and then.

I can somewhat understand being underwhelmed during that last fight because she bested Ren like that. But you've got to remember he's emotionally drained (he's fighting against Light Side urges and finally delved deep into the darkness by killing his father). He's wounded and bleeding out, and he's not trying to kill Rey (he tried to convince her to join him).

Add to that the fact that he hasn't completed his training yet, and it's understandable that a woman who is obviously very powerful in the Force and has likely had some past training (that he may have helped unlock when he probed her mind).

It's similar to how Anakin Skywalker, the best pilot ever, was taken out with a lucky shot from some dipshit smuggler and went spinning off into space like a dreidel at the end of ANH. His mind was clouded by thoughts of preventing the destruction of the Death Star by who we would find out later was his son.

Crazy shit happens to powerful people when they're distracted.

 

[juliushandle]

Incest is the only explanation. She's the love child of Luke and Leia.

Kylo Ren is only half Skywalker.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I was kinda thinking about that during the movie but I dunno really. No one dropped any hints.

Anakin/Luke's lightsaber literally called out to her.

Not proof but a possible hint.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I don't think she's quite a Mary Sue, but she's definitely close.

- Tragic backstory through no fault of her own? Check.
- Instantly good at anything she does, whether it be fighting, piloting, and using multiple facets of the force that she just learned existed a couple hours beforehand? Check.
- No real character flaws to speak of. Brave, knowledgeable, and strong. Never complains, always seems to know what to do in any situation.

Luke is similar in most of those regards, but he has some character flaws to compensate. Mainly being kinda whiny, immature, and getting frustrated easily. Particularly when training with Obi-wan and Yoda.

That said, I'm thinking the next movies will reveal that Rey actually was at Luke's jedi academy thing before, and she just doesn't remember for some reason. I think that will be the explanation for her apparent 'instant' mastery of the force.

And I'm not gonna lie, seeing such a strong female character in a huge movie, regardless of any Mary Sue criticisms, is actually quite refreshing.

She isn't instantly good at everything she does though. This completely goes against the fact that she has been surviving on her own and learned a great deal through that experience. Her fighting skills come from that survival, she faltered at flying the falcon at first, she knew of the OT but wasn't sure that the force was real until she was told/shown that it was. The biggest roadblock for the force as we saw from the OT was actually letting go and believing.

No real character flaws...yah, ok.

The flashback heavily hints at the fact that she was at the training academy with Luke, more than likely she is Luke's daughter.

 

[Brakke]

It's a weird writing choice, but I get it. We really can't judge much until the series is done.

Of course we can judge it before it's done. In fact, we must. In a couple years we're going to have to decide whether to drop $15 and a couple hours on seeing another film.

 

[Frodo]

There's an inconsistency with in the "rules" of the universe here.

Inconsistency with the use of the force in the Star Wars Universe is what these films are made of at this point. Don't know why to fixate in Rey, though.

 

[Eidan]

Inconsistency with the use of the force in the Star Wars Universe is what these films are made of at this point. Don't know why to fixate in Rey, though.

Too much vagina.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

So basically I'm a sexist for disagreeing with you?

No, I didn't mean you specifically. Just that this argument seems to stem from that point for a lot of people.

If the same character presented as the Force-sensitive hero with unknown limits who does amazing things with little to no instruction in TFA had a dick, I have a feeling he'd get a lot more respect than Rey is getting. And I have proof. His name is Luke.

 

[A-V-B]

Neat post.

Though I think the definition of Mary Sue is a character around whom the plot and characters revolve solely, almost pathetically and zombie-like, for absolutely no good reason.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Anakin/Luke's lightsaber literally called out to her.

Not proof but a possible hint.

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Maybe it sensed the good (light) in her or something.

 

[LosDaddie]

There are a lot of people who are trying really hard to make this about her sex. It's a little disconcerting.

Well, this is GAF. There is really only one conclusion to these type of threads.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Maybe it sensed the good (light) in her or something.

Yep. Who knows. If it turns out she is that scene was proof if she isn't that scene was more about her natural connection with the force

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Maybe it sensed the good (light) in her or something.

Or it sensed that she is Luke's daughter who was at the first temple where Luke trained her before dropping her off on Jakku.

 

[Veelk]

Well, this is GAF. There is really only one conclusion to these type of threads.

Well, don't look at me. I made it as much about Rey as possible without being intellectually dishonest about the fact that sexism is undoubtedly affecting our perceptions just a little.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Mary Sue is the worst term ever, seems to be used for any female character made these days, I hate it.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Maybe it sensed the good (light) in her or something.

Which, I suspect, is also the reason that R2D2 woke up when she was present. It sensed how powerful she was or sensed her relation to Luke. It's possible Luke told R2 to stay dormant until he returned, but sensing Skywalker genes, R2 woke up to her.

I know this isn't what Abrams said in his explanation as to why R2 woke up when he did, but he's nothing if not secretive.

Well, this is GAF. There is really only one conclusion to these type of threads.

I'm not a big fan of labelling people as racists or sexists just because they disagree with me. But this is a case where we have a clear correlation between Luke's batshit crazy abilities in ANH and Rey's in TFA, yet only Rey catches shit for it.

It may not be sexism for most. But I have no doubt it is for many.

 

[DarknessTear]

Mary Sue is the worst term ever, seems to be used for any female character made these days, I hate it.

People call the same type of male characters a Gary Stu. It's not really just reserved for women. See how people talk about Kirito for instance.

 

[The One and Done™]

I wonder if this would have even come up if her name was Reymond instead.

Rey is an awesome character.

 

[Jawmuncher]

People call the same type of male characters a Gary Stu. It's not really just reserved for women. See how people talk about Kirito for instance.

Never knew about the male term.

 

[LowParry]

Ya know. Leia was the one looking for her brother and decides not to go with Ray? What gives.

 

[Eidan]

Never knew about the male term.

That's because it's barely used. Gary Stu usually just goes by the moniker "badass".

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Never knew about the male term.

Me either, probably cause it is hardly ever used.

 

[DIRTY-D]

Or it sensed that she is Luke's daughter who was at the first temple where Luke trained her before dropping her off on Jakku.

Based off of the Disney Infinity 3.0 The Force Awakens game she is Luke's Daughter.

At around 20:30 in the footage embedded above, Kylo Ren seems to shout at Rey to "Face me, cousin!"

http://comicbook.com/2015/12/24/reys-identity-possibly-revealed-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens-d/


Edit...sorry.. seems like it was curses. damn

 

[Bobby Roberts]

comicbook dot com is a terrible site for anyone to get anything resembling "news."

 

[Brakke]

No, I didn't mean you specifically. Just that this argument seems to stem from that point for a lot of people.

I'm not a big fan of labelling people as racists or sexists just because they disagree with me. But this is a case where we have a clear correlation between Luke's batshit crazy abilities in ANH and Rey's in TFA, yet only Rey catches shit for it.

It may not be sexism for most. But I have no doubt it is for many.

This is a mealy-mouthed couple of posts lol. If you're going to swing on people, swing on them. If you're actually "not a big fan" of swinging on people, then don't.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Mary Sue is the worst term ever, seems to be used for any female character made these days, I hate it.

It is. Again, look at Anakin Skywalker in the prequels. He's the ultimate Marty Stu, yet is hardly criticized for that.

He's called whiny and paper thin as a character, and the actor portraying him (rightfully) gets shit on for doing a horrible job acting out terrible dialog, but nothing much gets said about how insanely powerful he was, even as a child. It's alluded to that he's an expert racer because of a connection with the Force, and he destroys a droid-control ship without even trying because of the Force. He's had zero training, he only knows of the Force by name, and he still shits his diapers, yet he's more believable (power-wise) than Rey because...?

The prequels get criticized for a lot of things, but rarely is it for having Anakin be that stupidly powerful from the get go.

Unfortunately, for some, it basically boils down to the penis.

The dude from Jurassic World can be a dino-fighting expert who calmly, confidently, and competently saves the day as the alpha-fucking-male and leads the way because penis. The woman he's on the verge of bedding is a powerful businesswoman who confidently has boobs and doesn't let her lack of penis get in the way too much. She then runs fast enough in her heels to not be eaten, thereby being terrified and sexy at the same time.

James Bond can overcome any odds in any situation, rescue the poor, defenseless woman, fuck that same woman, and do it all in beautiful locations because penis. Women in this world are there for sexual gratification, and to be his dried-up bitch of a boss who dies horribly because no penis.

Superman can be thin-looking as fuck when played by Henry Cavill and nobody says anything when he's powerful enough to destroy a city because Krypton penis. Gal Godot gets shit for being a thin Wonder Woman who couldn't possible realistically stand up to the threats faced by Superman and the other member's of the boy's club because no penis.

I could literally go on all day, but I've got to go from lowly paramedic in southeast Michigan to saving the president's life during an alien invasion tonight because penis.

This is a mealy-mouthed couple of posts lol. If you're going to swing on people, swing on them. If you're actually "not a big fan" of swinging on people, then don't.

I don't get how you fail to understand what I said, but I'll spell it out again.

As I said, I don't "usually" like generalizations. But when the shoe fits, it fits. I then explained why I believe the shoe fits for "many," but not all, who make this "Mary Sue" argument.

Did that un-mealy my mouth?

 

[OSHAN]

I thought it's pretty clear she's going to be Luke's daughter, as it sets up his daughter against Leia's son. Plus, Luke's face at the end. He didn't look pleased to see her--he looked defeated. Like there was no way for his bloodline not to be involved in this shit.

 

[LordJim]

snip

Anakin being super amazing, having tons of midi-whatever and part of a prophecy was criticized to hell and back, don't know what kind of critiques you have been reading.

Superman's whole concept from the get go is a being much more powerful than humans.
I mean, that is his fucking name. SUPER. Man.

James Bond is from campy spy novellas written almost 7 decades ago.

Simply put, people have completely different expectations about these characters and the struggles they face. Different context, universes and legacy.

It has absolutely nothing to do with them being men.

Shitty examples for a shitty rhetoric

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It is. Again, look at Anakin Skywalker in the prequels. He's the ultimate Marty Stu, yet is hardly criticized for that.

He's called whiny and paper thin as a character, and the actor portraying him (rightfully) gets shit on for doing a horrible job acting out terrible dialog, but nothing much gets said about how insanely powerful he was, even as a child. It's alluded to that he's an expert racer because of a connection with the Force, and he destroys a droid-control ship without even trying because of the Force. He's had zero training, he only knows of the Force by name, and he still shits his diapers, yet he's more believable (power-wise) than Rey because...?

The prequels get criticized for a lot of things, but rarely is it for having Anakin be that stupidly powerful from the get go.

Unfortunately, for some, it basically boils down to the penis.

The dude from Jurassic World can be a dino-fighting expert who calmly, confidently, and competently saves the day as the alpha-fucking-male and leads the way because penis. The woman he's on the verge of bedding is a powerful businesswoman who confidently has boobs and doesn't let her lack of penis get in the way too much. She then runs fast enough in her heels to not be eaten, thereby being terrified and sexy at the same time.

James Bond can overcome any odds in any situation, rescue the poor, defenseless woman, fuck that same woman, and do it all in beautiful locations because penis. Women in this world are there for sexual gratification and to be his bitch of a boss who dies horrible, because no penis.

Superman can be thin-looking as fuck when played by Henry Cavill and nobody says anything when he's powerful enough to destroy a city because Krypton penis. Gal Godot gets shit for being a thin Wonder Woman who couldn't possible realistically stand up to the threats faced by Superman and the other member's of the boy's club because no penis.

I could literally go on all day, but I've got to go from lowly paramedic in southeast Michigan to saving the president's life during an alien invasion tonight because penis.



I don't get how you fail to understand what I said, but I'll spell it out again.

As I said, I don't "usually" like generalizations. But when the shoe fits, it fits. I then explained why I believe the shoe fits for "many," but not all, who make this "Mary Sue" argument.

Did that un-mealy my mouth?

Most people hate Superman cuz he's too perfect. I'm guilty of using the same argument against him even though ironically I like Goku. But both characters are different to me.

 

[Brakke]

[Little Ani] called whiny and paper thin as a character, and the actor portraying him (rightfully) gets shit on for doing a horrible job acting out terrible dialog, but nothing much gets said about how insanely powerful he was, even as a child. It's alluded to that he's an expert racer because of a connection with the Force, and he destroys a droid-control ship without even trying because of the Force. He's had zero training, he only knows of the Force by name, and he still shits his diapers, yet he's more believable (power-wise) than Rey because...?

Who says this? Who in the world thinks lil Ani killing that droid thing is "believable"? Lil Ani doesn't get some pass, he's widely reviled.

By what criteria do you claim "nothing much" gets said about how ridiculous he is? That movie is fifteen years old, lots of the fandom has spent the intervening years trying to forget that movie even exists -- JJ Abrams apparently included.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Most people hate Superman cuz he's too perfect. I'm guilty of using the same argument against him even though ironically I like Goku.

Well Goku did die. He also failed on a lot of occasions.

 

[commish]

It is. Again, look at Anakin Skywalker in the prequels. He's the ultimate Marty Stu, yet is hardly criticized for that.

He's called whiny and paper thin as a character, and the actor portraying him (rightfully) gets shit on for doing a horrible job acting out terrible dialog, but nothing much gets said about how insanely powerful he was, even as a child. It's alluded to that he's an expert racer because of a connection with the Force, and he destroys a droid-control ship without even trying because of the Force. He's had zero training, he only knows of the Force by name, and he still shits his diapers, yet he's more believable (power-wise) than Rey because...?

The prequels get criticized for a lot of things, but rarely is it for having Anakin be that stupidly powerful from the get go.

Unfortunately, for some, it basically boils down to the penis.

The dude from Jurassic World can be a dino-fighting expert who calmly, confidently, and competently saves the day as the alpha-fucking-male and leads the way because penis. The woman he's on the verge of bedding is a powerful businesswoman who confidently has boobs and doesn't let her lack of penis get in the way too much. She then runs fast enough in her heels to not be eaten, thereby being terrified and sexy at the same time.

James Bond can overcome any odds in any situation, rescue the poor, defenseless woman, fuck that same woman, and do it all in beautiful locations because penis. Women in this world are there for sexual gratification and to be his bitch of a boss who dies horrible, because no penis.

Superman can be thin-looking as fuck when played by Henry Cavill and nobody says anything when he's powerful enough to destroy a city because Krypton penis. Gal Godot gets shit for being a thin Wonder Woman who couldn't possible realistically stand up to the threats faced by Superman and the other member's of the boy's club because no penis.

I could literally go on all day, but I've got to go from lowly paramedic in southeast Michigan to saving the president's life during an alien invasion tonight because penis.



I don't get how you fail to understand what I said, but I'll spell it out again.

As I said, I don't "usually" like generalizations. But when the shoe fits, it fits. I then explained why I believe the shoe fits for "many," but not all, who make this "Mary Sue" argument.

Did that un-mealy my mouth?

There were about 10 billion people who called bullshit on what Anakin did in Episode 1. I don't know how you can say otherwise.