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[The Wizard]

So who is scum, Fat or zeemumu?

Who's to say these two are exclusive? If just Fat was scum his cohorts could easily just reinforce the early lead Zee had with minimal suspicion. Similarly if Zee was scum but Fat was not scum could bandwagon onto Fat and cast suspicion on the initial accusers.
The main incentive I see to introduce and snowball Kalor into a lunch late on is to protect both of these members and not just one.
*Lynch. Also forgot to mention that we have Fat hesitating (refusing?) to vote on Zee but he easily jumps on the Kalor wagon once introduced.

 

[AbsolutBro]

As a reminder, please do not edit posts in the game thread.

 

[acohrs]

so the swerve to a towny is pretty suspicious, but then who's the scum? fatdog, zeemumu, both? for me, it's fatdog

 

[Sorian]

Why are Faddy and acohrs pretending that a swerve automatically means that scum was being protected?

 

[acohrs]

Why are Faddy and acohrs pretending that a swerve automatically means that scum was being protected?

why else would you swerve at the end of day to somebody who wasn't being pushed right until the deadline with little time but to act on instinct?

 

[Sorian]

why else would you swerve at the end of day to somebody who wasn't being pushed right until the deadline with little time but to act on instinct?

Well.

1) It's an extremely common occurrence in mafia. So much so that it has a (kind of racist) name.

But in the context of gafia

2) For all the talk and bluster on Zee and Fat, no one never really gave good arguments for either so we ended up with a ton of people who were looking for something more interesting. Kalor got votes and it piled from there. All 3 can be town with this outcome still happening because it all felt like a day 1 shot in the dark vote because, effectively, it was. We finally get some interesting info with Bronx dying last night so that's all well and good but the day and night 1 deaths told very little.

 

[*Splinter]

Well.

1) It's an extremely common occurrence in mafia. So much so that it has a (kind of racist) name.

But in the context of gafia

2) For all the talk and bluster on Zee and Fat, no one never really gave good arguments for either so we ended up with a ton of people who were looking for something more interesting. Kalor got votes and it piled from there. All 3 can be town with this outcome still happening because it all felt like a day 1 shot in the dark vote because, effectively, it was. We finally get some interesting info with Bronx dying last night so that's all well and good but the day and night 1 deaths told very little.

Please remind of the justification for Kalor's lynch.

 

[Sorian]

Please remind of the justification for Kalor's lynch.

It was an alternative to a person who I town read and a person that people were reaching, at best, to come up with a justification to vote and as time was ticking down, no one would follow me onto Swamped or Faddy.

 

[*Splinter]

It was an alternative to a person who I town read and a person that people were reaching, at best, to come up with a justification to vote and as time was ticking down, no one would follow me onto Swamped or Faddy.

Please remind me of the justification for Kalor being an "alternative"

VOTE: Sorian

 

[Sorian]

Please remind me of the justification for Kalor being an "alternative"

VOTE: Sorian

Asking me the same question is going to get you the same answer. Putting my name in red doesn't change it.

 

[*Splinter]

Asking me the same question is going to get you the same answer. Putting my name in red doesn't change it.

You seriously can't dredge up a single good reason to vote for Kalor?

And the Zeemumu lynch was the unjustified one?

Ok.

You're full of shit.

 

[Sorian]

You seriously can't dredge up a single good reason to vote for Kalor?

And the Zeemumu lynch was the unjustified one?

Ok.

You're full of shit.

I wanted someone else to vote and my choices were acohrs and Kalor at that exact moment. I didn't really have much one way or the other on those two so I voted for the one that actually had steam since if I remember right acohr's voters had been sitting there awhile.

Kalor had done all of nothing. Zeemumu's crime was looking at flavor too much and.... ???? effectively. I'll take someone coasting over someone being pressed over super weak reasoning any day.

Again, literally voted him because he was the only alternative.

 

[acohrs]

Again, literally voted him because he was the only alternative.

not true, I was an alternative. kalor and I were both on 2 votes when you voted for him

 

[Faddy]

Why are Faddy and acohrs pretending that a swerve automatically means that scum was being protected?

I'm not. But Splinter was in quick calling the swerve bullshit so clearly he believes the lynch moved away from scum. I want to hear who he thinks is scum.

I think scum were doing some protection though with almost every player ended up with a vote on a wagon which is pretty remarkable for a late day 2 wagon. Which means scum were paying attention and moving votes at the end.

 

[Sorian]

not true, I was an alternative. kalor and I were both on 2 votes when you voted for him

You cropped out the part of the post where I specifically talked about you so either you willfully ignored it or you didn't bother reading my post and just grabbed a tldr at the end.

 

[*Splinter]

not true, I was an alternative. kalor and I were both on 2 votes when you voted for him

Interesting that both of the votes on you quickly moved to Kalor once he became the Sorian Approved™ alternative.

That's Faddy and Panda btw

I'm not. But Splinter was in quick calling the swerve bullshit so clearly he believes the lynch moved away from scum. I want to hear who he thinks is scum.

I think scum were doing some protection though with almost every player ended up with a vote on a wagon which is pretty remarkable for a late day 2 wagon. Which means scum were paying attention and moving votes at the end.

Between Zeemumu, Fats, and the Kalor voters I'm not sure who I want to lynch first.

 

[*Splinter]

Probably Fats. Crazy that he never voted Zeemumu.

 

[acohrs]

You cropped out the part of the post where I specifically talked about you so either you willfully ignored it or you didn't bother reading my post and just grabbed a tldr at the end.

I willfully ignored it as I didn't think it justified the quoted bit. Think you're scum and using logic that doesn't strike me as towny to defend a scummy move.

vote: Sorian

 

[*Splinter]

VOTE: Kalor

My preferred choice of acohrs is out, but Kalor and Fat4all are both good choices too. Better than zee at any rate. I think I slightly prefer Kalor.

Vote: Kalor

If someone could dig up past posts by these two referencing Kalor that'd be swell.

 

[Faddy]

If someone could dig up past posts by these two referencing Kalor that'd be swell.

I was suspicious of Kalor after Kawl pointed out some things between him and zee. And if it came down to it I was more for Kalor since he has been far less active in the game.

 

[Sorian]

It was all a grand conspiracy. I fooled you all into following me like sheep once again.

 

[*Splinter]

I fuckin' knew it

 

[Sorian]

I'm about to go to sleep so you all do you until I wake up later but let's remember that I actually got dirty in the votes. The same can't be said for you and your "spiritual vote" Splinter.

Just my two cents.

 

[*Splinter]

I'm about to go to sleep so you all do you until I wake up later but let's remember that I actually got dirty in the votes. The same can't be said for you and your "spiritual vote" Splinter.

Just my two cents.

It was you wasn't it?

Also shout-out to all the townies who supertownread me but ignored my preference during the multiple tied votes. I understand there was a super compelling case against Kalor of course.


*"townies"

 

[Swamped]

You're welcome for breaking the tie at the end of the day

I am looking at the vote tally from post #955. This is when Zee, Fat and Kalor all had 4 votes on them. This was only 4 minutes before the countdown ended. At this point, it was hard to see who would actually win the lynch. Zee was in contention from the very beginning, but Fat gained steam towards the end of the day phase (Wizard started the bandwagon, and Dr Worm had been clear on it from the beginning). Kalor was an even newer option than Fat. The reason I say this is because while people had been wary of him throughout the day, he was never really talked about or voted on until the end.

I would like to point out some of these votes:

1. Zeusy voted for Kalor, effectively starting the bandwagon (althought NS had voted before him). Before that vote, he did say this:

Not gonna lie at this point idk where my vote will land...and I'm not trying to join a bandwagon 😧

Why did you decide Kalor was a good option? You weren't scum-reading him before then. Yet you still voted for him.

2. I know Ouro said his Zeemumu vote was to cause scum to panic or whatever...but the fact is that it essentially removed Fat from the running.

Tbh, I haven't really thought much about Fat being scum, but I will look through his posts and closer at the votes too.

Anyway, all this to say that I'm still wary of Ouro. I will look closer at Fat, and try and parse out the end of day votes some more.

 

[Swamped]

Probably Fats. Crazy that he never voted Zeemumu.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but in his defense he did say this:

i will vote for zee to keep myself alive if i have to, because i know im not scum, but im still not seeing zee as scum right now

Then he voted Kalor once it was clear he was no longer in the running.

 

[Swamped]

I willfully ignored it as I didn't think it justified the quoted bit. Think you're scum and using logic that doesn't strike me as towny to defend a scummy move.

vote: Sorian

I am feeling a bit better on acohrs. This is a strong start to the day, with some reasoning.

 

[Swamped]

So yeah a lot of last minute shenanigans went on during the last round.

Going to look at all those last minute swing votes

don't understand the Kalor swing at all.

Why not ask this in scum chat?

Your scum buddies would know more than us anyways no?

Ok I need Dusk and Penguin to do more. Be more specific about how you felt about the D2 end votes.

If scum was in the top three lynches, they would be more wishy-washy about commenting on it today.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Vote: Swamped

Your totally town move wasn't getting any credit yet so you had to bring it up to make sure you got it. Here's my thanks.

 

[*Splinter]

Vote: Swamped

Your totally town move wasn't getting any credit yet so you had to bring it up to make sure you got it. Here's my thanks.

+1 to this.

 

[Kawl_USC]

I'm of two minds regarding who would kill Bronx.

Either it could be for his last minute vote on zeemumu, which tied the vote up in typical bronxian fashion. Honestly breaking ties gets no town cred for me, but does tying a vote at :59 get scum credit...

Or: scum have a PR checker. Not a role cop as then they would know killing Bronx only creates another confirmed town, but rather is the player a PR yes or no. I could see checking Bronx night one with such a power given that he just recently performed well as a SK. Then knowing bronx was a PR scum eliminated him not knowing he was only a mason.

 

[Swamped]

Vote: Swamped

Your totally town move wasn't getting any credit yet so you had to bring it up to make sure you got it. Here's my thanks.

This is a very lazy vote, but you are most welcome!

 

[Faddy]

I'm of two minds regarding who would kill Bronx.

Either it could be for his last minute vote on zeemumu, which tied the vote up in typical bronxian fashion. Honestly breaking ties gets no town cred for me, but does tying a vote at :59 get scum credit...

Or: scum have a PR checker. Not a role cop as then they would know killing Bronx only creates another confirmed town, but rather is the player a PR yes or no. I could see checking Bronx night one with such a power given that he just recently performed well as a SK. Then knowing bronx was a PR scum eliminated him not knowing he was only a mason.

If you are going with that Bronx theory who participated in that game? Who did Bronx shoot in that game that might be wary of him?

 

[Kawl_USC]

This is a very lazy vote, but you are most welcome!

Meh I focus on things that seem scummy and ignore things that are pro town for the most part especially with stronger players like yourself. Being "town" is not super difficult, so when something sticks out like your post I tend to clamp on to it and put my vote behind it.

But your attempt at delegitimization is noted and moves you further up in the suspicion column.

 

[Swamped]

Meh I focus on things that seem scummy and ignore things that are pro town for the most part especially with stronger players like yourself. Being "town" is not super difficult, so when something sticks out like your post I tend to clamp on to it and put my vote behind it.

But your attempt at delegitimization is noted and moves you further up in the suspicion column.

It's lazy because there was a lot to work through with the D2 votes and you haven't even attempted to do so. So I've made a mental note of that, because I think scum would want to be wishy-washy about how they feel about votes that were especially so closely contested.

Also, what you did by voting for me is a prime example of cherry-picking, a go-to scum tactic.

 

[Kawl_USC]

It's lazy because there was a lot to work through with the D2 votes and you haven't even attempted to do so. So I've made a mental note of that, because I think scum would want to be wishy-washy about how they feel about votes that were especially so closely contested.

Also, what you did by voting for me is a prime example of cherry-picking, a go-to scum tactic.

Who cares if there is "a lot of work to go through" I don't particularly care to twist ourselves into knots and become tunneled on the votes moving around while we don't even know if scum is involved at all. Gafia town does this frequently all the while scum is just sitting back laughing. I find day end flurries don't end up helping town in most games. And if you end scum I hope everyone notes you wanting to push the day end vote dissection.

 

[Penguin]

Ok sorry let me get a read on Day 2 events, I do think we need to look into any last minute pushes for Z and Kalor.

and I'll even start with me since one of the final votes for Z, but that was more to preserve my own ass (since at the time I believe we were tied) than it was a vote against him. Maybe not my smartest play, but putting my cards on the table there.

On the same note, there's Zeemumu who didn't even vote during Day 2. You would think if your butt was in trouble at least try to save yourself. My thinking is he is scum and accepted his faith or he is scum and knew that his teammates would save him.

Which also draws into questions the last few votes for Kalor out of nowhere, which makes Fat, Panda and Swamped suspected Scum players. My guess would go with Fat or Swamped since Panda voted when it was still relatively back and forth and they thought could hide inside the final wave.


For my town read, I'm going to let Ouro off my list. Partially because Bronx has shown to be town, and my read of their back and forth was just super broken logic. And afraid he'll probably start a vote-wave against me again.

I'll accept CCS story for now since it seems like no one else has claimed that role.

Ok guess for now only 2 people trust.

The rest are neutral.

 

[CCS]

alright, i should try to be a bit less wishy-washy with my stances, but i still dont see the point of keeping Zeusy around while they are doing less than nothing to aid town.

unvote

Kawl has apparently done the same exact thing he did on day one, hit 10 posts with a lot of padding, but at the same time there is very little to gleam from the posts that are not just drive-bys. im also very confused on their choice for voting for zee, i dont think they properly explained why they are voting they way they are. if this keep up then they are likely just a scum coasting

can someone give me a short (or at least quick) explanation on the zee vote build up? i saw they were getting heat but im not exactly sure why looking back (unless i missed sommit, im kinda speed reading here)

i started looking at Kalor just recently, not much to go on at this point

i will vote for zee to keep myself alive if i have to, because i know im not scum, but im still not seeing zee as scum right now

VOTE: Kalor

It was a zee v Kalor tie when Fat voted, so it's not the case that Kalor was a better vote to save his own skin. With that being the situation, does this set of end of day posts seem off to anyone else?

VOTE:Fat4all

 

[CCS]

To clarify, my issue is that Fat's posts seem to consist of saying "I don't want to do this but I have to" about everyone else who was a potential target. Could just be that he townread them, but feels like trying to make sure he can't be blamed for his vote.

 

[Penguin]

To clarify, my issue is that Fat's posts seem to consist of saying "I don't want to do this but I have to" about everyone else who was a potential target. Could just be that he townread them, but feels like trying to make sure he can't be blamed for his vote.

Well reading his posts in order, it seems like he thinks it went Kawl>Kalor>Zee and voted for Kalor to keep himself in the game.

But why not make a bigger push for Kawl if he felt strongly about that?

 

[Giant Panda]

Not sure why people are trying to retcon Kalor into a bad lynch target. He had been on my radar since he voted Zeemumu essentially just for the flavor speculation, and then he also threw shade at Burb long after it had become clear that Burb was inactive. His two biggest reads were really weak, and I can't remember anything else of note from Kalor.

 

[CCS]

Not sure why people are trying to retcon Kalor into a bad lynch target. He had been on my radar since he voted Zeemumu essentially just for the flavor speculation, and then he also threw shade at Burb long after it had become clear that Burb was inactive. His two biggest reads were really weak, and I can't remember anything else of note from Kalor.

Not so much that he was a bad target in and of himself, but that a last minute pile on when he'd previously had very little attention is rather suspect.

 

[Faddy]

Not sure why people are trying to retcon Kalor into a bad lynch target. He had been on my radar since he voted Zeemumu essentially just for the flavor speculation, and then he also threw shade at Burb long after it had become clear that Burb was inactive. His two biggest reads were really weak, and I can't remember anything else of note from Kalor.

They are retconning because barely anyone has put down a canon readlist.

You can't catch a flipflop if you don't put down your thoughts in a concise post.

Ok time to bust out a fulll ranking

TOWN
*Splinter
CCS
Swamped
Dr. Worm
Penguin
Lord of Castamere
Giant Panda
Nomadic Sparks
Dusk Soldier
zeemumu
Ourobolous
Sorian
Fat4All
The Wizard
zeusy
kalor
Bronx-man
Kawl_USC
acohrs
SCUM

Lots of uncertainty in those rankings but better to put something up than nothing.

Look there is mine from near end of day 2 with Kalor near the bottom.

I'm not going to redo the full list right now but I'm much more positive on acohrs after how voting went, less suspicious of Kawl and more suspicious of Swamped. And obviously I was way off on Bronx. But people can hold me to account because I bothered to put this down.

 

[Penguin]

Not sure why people are trying to retcon Kalor into a bad lynch target. He had been on my radar since he voted Zeemumu essentially just for the flavor speculation, and then he also threw shade at Burb long after it had become clear that Burb was inactive. His two biggest reads were really weak, and I can't remember anything else of note from Kalor.

Not so much that he was a bad target in and of himself, but that a last minute pile on when he'd previously had very little attention is rather suspect.

Well for me, I guess the logic is it's difficult to pick on a dead character. Even if they played poorly, we know they were town now so it only begs to reason to look at the suspects who helped kill em.

 

[zeemumu]

Who's to say these two are exclusive? If just Fat was scum his cohorts could easily just reinforce the early lead Zee had with minimal suspicion. Similarly if Zee was scum but Fat was not scum could bandwagon onto Fat and cast suspicion on the initial accusers.
The main incentive I see to introduce and snowball Kalor into a lunch late on is to protect both of these members and not just one.
*Lynch. Also forgot to mention that we have Fat hesitating (refusing?) to vote on Zee but he easily jumps on the Kalor wagon once introduced.

Jumped on that wagon so fast that I was the last one to vote and missed the deadline.

 

[zeemumu]

Referring to myself, anyway

 

[Penguin]

Jumped on that wagon so fast that I was the last one to vote and missed the deadline.

I got to say this really doesn't hold water for me. One of the more active members of the thread doesn't realize deadline is passing and votes "too late" for it to be counted? And then votes against town.

It's suspect as hell.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

I'm not sure who to vote for?

 

[Kawl_USC]

I'm not sure who to vote for?

Scum chat should be able to help with this.

 

[Ourobolus]

2. I know Ouro said his Zeemumu vote was to cause scum to panic or whatever...but the fact is that it essentially removed Fat from the running.

No one was going to vote Fat at that point. Zee was on my scum short-list so I went that way. I wanted to see who would vote Kalor during that time.

As for everyone who jumped on Kalor, I'm pretty sure there's good chance that scum followed Sorian. That doesn't mean Sorian is scum (though it's definitely a possibility) but I'm leaning towards at worst neutral for Sorian since I find myself nodding along a decent amount this game.

Kalor (7) voted out
Nomadic Sparks 932
Zeusy 934
Sorian 947
Faddy 953
Giant Panda 956
Fat4all 961
Swamped 965

Seems silly for scum to randomly vote for Kalor early on, but Sorian's a strong voice regardless of his evidence for Kalor so I can see scum jumping on after him.

The fact that it did swing so late in the day does give me more pause on Fat and I'd be curious to see what he flips.

Vote: Fat4All

If it's Town, then I'll think scum is late on Fat's vote train. If it's scum, I'd look early on that list to see if there's a bus in there.