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[Faddy]

No one was going to vote Fat at that point. Zee was on my scum short-list so I went that way. I wanted to see who would vote Kalor during that time.

As for everyone who jumped on Kalor, I'm pretty sure there's good chance that scum followed Sorian. That doesn't mean Sorian is scum (though it's definitely a possibility) but I'm leaning towards at worst neutral for Sorian since I find myself nodding along a decent amount this game.

Kalor (7) voted out
Nomadic Sparks 932
Zeusy 934
Sorian 947
Faddy 953
Giant Panda 956
Fat4all 961
Swamped 965

Seems silly for scum to randomly vote for Kalor early on, but Sorian's a strong voice regardless of his evidence for Kalor so I can see scum jumping on after him.

The fact that it did swing so late in the day does give me more pause on Fat and I'd be curious to see what he flips.

Vote: Fat4All

If it's Town, then I'll think scum is late on Fat's vote train. If it's scum, I'd look early on that list to see if there's a bus in there.

Your posts all seem logical, you even had a read list with both Fat and Zee on it. Let me try and ascribe some reasons for the Kalor votes

Kalor (7) voted out
Nomadic Sparks 932 - starts the train, no reason given
Zeusy 934 - no reason given
Sorian 947 - "hadn't considered Kalor"
Faddy 953 - Was scum on my read list
Giant Panda 956 - Was scum on his read list
Fat4all 961 - was town reading zeemumu
Swamped 965 - tie breaker

So the unexplained votes are all early. If zeemumu is scum then those are the people I would look at for starting the alternate train.

 

[Ourobolus]

who else was on that list of mine, faddy

 

[Faddy]

who else was on that list of mine, faddy

Here it is.

So I looked over a bunch, but yeah, I apologize I am a little drunk.

Scummy:
zeemumu - the whole scum number discussion sticks out to me and I will keep my vote here for now
Giant Panda - there's something authoritative about his posts that is bugging me
dr worm - for the same reason giant panda is bugging me. He's super aggressive (from what I remember), something is bothering me here
fat4all - nowhere near as shitposty as usual. not town? maybe neutral?

Townie:
Splinter - i'm gonna go ahead assume that the vote block is either scummy or neutral. he's townie on my list for now, but we'll see
Swamped - she's nowhere near as involved as she normally seems as scum
Sorian - god, fucking hell, he's probably town or at worst neutral. can we kill him just in case

 

[Faddy]

Damn there seems to be some html error in that post, that ruined the formatting...

 

[Ourobolus]

Thanks. My point is I wanna see Fat's flip because if he's scum, then I'd definitely want to look at Faddy/Giant Panda/Swamped, and then also Dr. Worm, since he was the first person EVER to vote for Fat for pretty much no reason at all.

 

[Dr. Worm]

so the swerve to a towny is pretty suspicious, but then who's the scum? fatdog, zeemumu, both? for me, it's fatdog

why else would you swerve at the end of day to somebody who wasn't being pushed right until the deadline with little time but to act on instinct?

I'm on mobile atm so I can't check, who swerved?

 

[zeemumu]

I'm on mobile atm so I can't check, who swerved?

Think they're talking about the swerve to vote for Kalor

 

[acohrs]

I'm on mobile atm so I can't check, who swerved?

Was speaking generally about the push to get kalor lynched at that time.

 

[acohrs]

Thanks. My point is I wanna see Fat's flip because if he's scum, then I'd definitely want to look at Faddy/Giant Panda/Swamped, and then also Dr. Worm, since he was the first person EVER to vote for Fat for pretty much no reason at all.

Want either a sorian or fat flip today, either would help me to make sense of d2 end

 

[Ourobolus]

Also I know we assumed that the vote suppression is scummy, but I want everyone to keep an open mind about it. While I do town-read Splinter at the moment, if scum is going to use it on themselves (or if it's neutral/town then being suppressed is NAI) it behooves them to do it earlier in the game than later, so don't give anyone a pass that claims to be vote suppressed.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Want either a sorian or fat flip today, either would help me to make sense of d2 end

It's day 3, I'll need an actual case to go along with a utility lynch argument to get me to budge. I'll buy utility day 2, not so much on day 3, we have enough material out there that we should be lynching people we think are scum not just people who help us determine whether moving votes were actually important or just a red herring.

 

[The Wizard]

Jumped on that wagon so fast that I was the last one to vote and missed the deadline.

I'm talking about Fat4All voting for Kalor quite easily once Kalor had momentum but refusing to vote for you (Zee) unless it was to save his own hide last minute.
Right now we still don't have a lot to go on but the Kalor swerve stinks to me as there was no compelling argument. If Fat is scum there's a very high chance we could knock down Zee alongside him, a 2fir1 at this point would be a huge boon for town and the best chance I see right now.
Vote: Fat4All

 

[Faddy]

It's day 3, I'll need an actual case to go along with a utility lynch argument to get me to budge. I'll buy utility day 2, not so much on day 3, we have enough material out there that we should be lynching people we think are scum not just people who help us determine whether moving votes were actually important or just a red herring.

Do you have an actual case against Swamped. Voting for her because she happened to mention she was the person who broke the tie is very very weak.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Do you have an actual case against Swamped. Voting for her because she happened to mention she was the person who broke the tie is very very weak.

It was the very first thing in her first post. It screams that she wants town cred. Only scum gaf about having town cred. As I said, I think being generally townie is pretty easy so tend to give more weight to mistakes/posts that seem scummy more than tallying up how town someone has been and voting for the least town person.

With kalor being town, it pretty much removed the thought process I had for zeemumu being scum (still think his post positing kalor as one of the top three most town leaderish is very bizarre), so no reason to keep pressing him.

 

[acohrs]

It's day 3, I'll need an actual case to go along with a utility lynch argument to get me to budge. I'll buy utility day 2, not so much on day 3, we have enough material out there that we should be lynching people we think are scum not just people who help us determine whether moving votes were actually important or just a red herring.

Fatdog is a utility lynch for me, sorian is not.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Ok I need Dusk and Penguin to do more. Be more specific about how you felt about the D2 end votes.

If scum was in the top three lynches, they would be more wishy-washy about commenting on it today.

Between the three lynch targets i town read kalor and fat.

Acohrs i have no opinion on.

The kalor push for me looks suspicious. There was very little talk about him throughout D2.

When we were all still fixated on Ty's list i mentioned that acohrs was the only one on the list that was under any real vote pressure.

If scum was behind swerving the vote it was more likely to save Zee than acohrs.

However gafia loves is band wagons do it's hard to read into that this early.

7 people voted out Kalor, they can't all be scum.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

I'm of two minds regarding who would kill Bronx.

Either it could be for his last minute vote on zeemumu, which tied the vote up in typical bronxian fashion. Honestly breaking ties gets no town cred for me, but does tying a vote at :59 get scum credit...

Or: scum have a PR checker. Not a role cop as then they would know killing Bronx only creates another confirmed town, but rather is the player a PR yes or no. I could see checking Bronx night one with such a power given that he just recently performed well as a SK. Then knowing bronx was a PR scum eliminated him not knowing he was only a mason.

Have you played a game with a PR checker before?

What would that look like?

 

[Ourobolus]

Have you played a game with a PR checker before?

What would that look like?

Vanilla Cop - checks player to see if they are vanilla or not.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Have you played a game with a PR checker before?

What would that look like?

^^

Yea basically has role or does not have role.

 

[Dr. Worm]

Was speaking generally about the push to get kalor lynched at that time.

Oh, I thought we were naming names

 

[Faddy]

Oh, I thought we were naming names

It would be nice if people did name names

 

[acohrs]

Oh, I thought we were naming names

well I am voting Sorian...

 

[Zeusy]

I would like to point out some of these votes:

1. Zeusy voted for Kalor, effectively starting the bandwagon (althought NS had voted before him). Before that vote, he did say this:



Why did you decide Kalor was a good option? You weren't scum-reading him before then. Yet you still voted for him.

I had no idea my vote would start that and that kalor would be Lynched.prior to my vote he only had one vote. I never stated my thoughts on him but I had suspicion. Will say after the events that happened fat isn't looking too hot.

 

[Penguin]

I had no idea my vote would start that and that kalor would be Lynched.prior to my vote he only had one vote. I never stated my thoughts on him but I had suspicion. Will say after the events that happened fat isn't looking too hot.

Well now you can share your reasons?

 

[Zeusy]

Well now you can share your reasons?

He was town in infamous mafia and was not playing the same town way. But that's just how I was feeling, so I thought he was scum. I was obviously wrong

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Vanilla Cop - checks player to see if they are vanilla or not.

^^

Yea basically has role or does not have role.

Right, that makes sense.

I haven't played with one on gafia yet.

 

[zeemumu]

I got to say this really doesn't hold water for me. One of the more active members of the thread doesn't realize deadline is passing and votes "too late" for it to be counted? And then votes against town.

It's suspect as hell.

No I realized. I tried to do a dramatic thing by waiting until the last possible second and failed miserably

 

[Penguin]

No I realized. I tried to do a dramatic thing by waiting until the last possible second and failed miserably

Just so we're on the same page, you do realize how fishy this all sounds, right?

 

[Kawl_USC]

Just so we're on the same page, you do realize how fishy this all sounds, right?

I mean what does it actually change? He has a vote down for all intents and purposes and if anything has gotten more flak for his late vote than he would have for no vote. If anything he just nearly got himself killed being stupid, does scum do that?

 

[Penguin]

I mean what does it actually change? He has a vote down for all intents and purposes and if anything has gotten more flak for his late vote than he would have for no vote. If anything he just nearly got himself killed being stupid, does scum do that?

I think so if he knew his teammates would have his back.

 

[Kawl_USC]

I think so if he knew his teammates would have his back.

Why vote after day close at all then? I'm struggling to find his post day end vote anything other than NAI.

 

[Penguin]

Why vote after day close at all then? I'm struggling to find his post day end vote anything other than NAI.

It just seems suspect is all that he was so active even to the run-up of the tally that he "missed" the mark to have his actual vote recorded.

Especially when it could have been the vote to save his own butt. I'm not waiting on theatrics for that unless I'm assured somehow that I'll be safe.

 

[Sorian]

It's day 3, I'll need an actual case to go along with a utility lynch argument to get me to budge. I'll buy utility day 2, not so much on day 3, we have enough material out there that we should be lynching people we think are scum not just people who help us determine whether moving votes were actually important or just a red herring.

For a day 3, we have surprisingly little info actually. The mason death gives us one confirmed town but the way the lynches have run (imo, a lot of town v town), it's all a lot of NAI votes.

It just seems suspect is all that he was so active even to the run-up of the tally that he "missed" the mark to have his actual vote recorded.

Especially when it could have been the vote to save his own butt. I'm not waiting on theatrics for that unless I'm assured somehow that I'll be safe.

I was refreshing day end and Zee's post came in seconds after AB's. I highly doubt it was some scripted ploy. There is always a chance of ties in situations like that and scum and town both have reasoning to want to avoid ties.

-------

VOTE: Swamped

Now that I've slept, I think my issue here is that whenever you do post, you are a yes (wo)man. The thoughts are never really your own, they are just agreeing with someone else or complimenting them on their own read. I don't think I've seen you run counter to someone unless they were specifically targeting you.

 

[Ourobolus]

The only reason I'm not directly going for Swamped is that I think she's smarter than all that. She's being exceptionally brazen with her sheeping and "logic," which seems out of character.

 

[Faddy]

Does anyone else find it weird that both Sorian and Kawl have decided to ignore any end of day analysis to instead zero in on Swamped.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Does anyone else find it weird that both Sorian and Kawl have decided to ignore any end of day analysis to instead zero in on Swamped.

Trying to decipher voting records and swings with no scum flips is a fruitless endeavor which leads to blow out town losses from chasing your own tail.

Sorry we are looking at people's actual posts and feel rather than just votes which almost certainly come down to people fucking around and wanting to be involved since "only the last 30 minutes of a day matters" :eyeroll:

Once we get a scum lynch then we can talk about what vote movements mean.

 

[*Splinter]

Does anyone else find it weird that both Sorian and Kawl have decided to ignore any end of day analysis to instead zero in on Swamped.

No

Do you?

 

[Sorian]

Does anyone else find it weird that both Sorian and Kawl have decided to ignore any end of day analysis to instead zero in on Swamped.

You mean how I talked about day end and said that I feel like it was all town v town so I don't care to look there at all.

Yes, the true definition of ignoring something.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

I wanted someone else to vote and my choices were acohrs and Kalor at that exact moment. I didn't really have much one way or the other on those two so I voted for the one that actually had steam since if I remember right acohr's voters had been sitting there awhile.

Kalor had done all of nothing. Zeemumu's crime was looking at flavor too much and.... ???? effectively. I'll take someone coasting over someone being pressed over super weak reasoning any day.

Again, literally voted him because he was the only alternative.

I just want to make sure I'm reading this right...

i. Near end of day you noticed that both Fat and Zee were in the lead to be lynched.

ii. You didn't (and presumably still don't) want either of these players to be lynched.

iii. You looked at the vote count and found that acohrs/Kalor were the two with the next highest votes.

iv. You felt that Kalor was the more likely of the two to get lynched. (or in other words you didn't care which of the two was lynched you just preferred one of them over Fat/Zee)

v. You voted for Kalor hoping to start a bandwagon.

Does that properly summarize your gameplay at the end of D2?

 

[Sorian]

I just want to make sure I'm reading this right...

i. Near end of day you noticed that both Fat and Zee were in the lead to be lynched.

ii. You didn't (and presumably still don't) want either of these players to be lynched.

iii. You looked at the vote count and found that acohrs/Kalor were the two with the next highest votes.

iv. You felt that Kalor was the more likely of the two to get lynched. (or in other words you didn't care which of the two was lynched you just preferred one of them over Fat/Zee)

v. You voted for Kalor hoping to start a bandwagon.

Does that properly summarize your gameplay at the end of D2?

Yes, until you get to point 5. I didn't care if people followed me on the vote or not so I wasn't hoping to start a bandwagon. I have town leans on Fat and Zee and middling reads on acohrs and Kalor. I wasn't going to go out of my way to get in line with votes on my town reads when there were possible alternatives on the table.

 

[Faddy]

No

Do you?

Yes

Trying to decipher voting records and swings with no scum flips is a fruitless endeavor which leads to blow out town losses from chasing your own tail.

Sorry we are looking at people's actual posts and feel rather than just votes which almost certainly come down to people fucking around and wanting to be involved since "only the last 30 minutes of a day matters" :eyeroll:

Once we get a scum lynch then we can talk about what vote movements mean.

Trying to decipher voting records without a scum flip is hard I'll give you that but when you propose a lynch target as scum you should at least try to take into account previous votes. Instead your analysis stops at proclaiming Swamped was looking for townie points therefore scum.

You mean how I talked about day end and said that I feel like it was all town v town so I don't care to look there at all.

Yes, the true definition of ignoring something.

Yes i saw you ignoring it and writing it off as town vs town without any consideration that you might be wrong.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Yes, until you get to point 5. I didn't care if people followed me on the vote or not so I wasn't hoping to start a bandwagon. I have town leans on Fat and Zee and middling reads on acohrs and Kalor. I wasn't going to go out of my way to get in line with votes on my town reads when there were possible alternatives on the table.

Do you have any scum reads yet?

 

[Sorian]

Yes i saw you ignoring it and writing it off as town vs town without any consideration that you might be wrong.

So am I ignoring it or applying my reads to it? No shit I can be wrong but with 0 info to go on, why would I double back on a "maybe?"

Do you have any scum reads yet?

Swamped and Faddy. As I've been saying for since yesterday. I also am starting to side eye Kawl a bit because that explanation of why Bronx was killed sounds a lot like me trying to hand wave Darryl's death away in love boat 2 but Kawl is fine if Swamped is scum and that's a stronger read for me so I can wait on it.

 

[Kawl_USC]

So am I ignoring it or applying my reads to it? No shit I can be wrong but with 0 info to go on, why would I double back on a "maybe?"



Swamped and Faddy. As I've been saying for since yesterday. I also am starting to side eye Kawl a bit because that explanation of why Bronx was killed sounds a lot like me trying to hand wave Darryl's death away in love boat 2 but Kawl is fine if Swamped is scum and that's a stronger read for me so I can wait on it.

And for the kids at home who didn't read that game, the context for this would be?

 

[The Wizard]

Yes, until you get to point 5. I didn't care if people followed me on the vote or not so I wasn't hoping to start a bandwagon. I have town leans on Fat and Zee and middling reads on acohrs and Kalor. I wasn't going to go out of my way to get in line with votes on my town reads when there were possible alternatives on the table.

You didn't care if people followed and yet you included that the vote train had a chance despite the fact that the leaders were both at 4 and kalor was currently at 2.

I'll vote Zeemumu over Fat. I think they're both town but Z is the weaker link there.

VOTE: Kalor

In for that late vote train that actually has a chance.

That said I see you as town right now as you are outspoken and not afraid to lead the conversation. And among the Kalor votes I see yours as one of the more credible. (I really don't like the ones with zero reason attached and we still don't have any follow-up from some of these)
Ultimately right now town is hurting for information, if Swamped flips town is that going to help us or hurt more us compared to the other lynch options? (Fat, Zee or any others in the running)

 

[Sorian]

And for the kids at home who didn't read that game, the context for this would be?

We killed Darryl because he was pestering a few of us and there was no real reason why scum would target him at that point. He happened to be a weird PR so the thought I provided to the thread was that scum likely had a role cop that had checked him earlier in the game.

 

[Sorian]

You didn't care if people followed and yet you included that the vote train had a chance despite the fact that the leaders were both at 4 and kalor was currently at 2.

That said I see you as town right now as you are outspoken and not afraid to lead the conversation. And among the Kalor votes I see yours as one of the more credible. (I really don't like the ones with zero reason attached and we still don't have any follow-up from some of these)
Ultimately right now town is hurting for information, if Swamped flips town is that going to help us or hurt more us compared to the other lynch options? (Fat, Zee or any others in the running)

And yes, I didn't care if people followed me but I did want a counter that I actually thought could be scum. The "had a chance" means had a chance to be scum, not had a chance to be the lynch.

Also I don't think Swamped being town hurts us more than any other mislynch. She isn't really contributing much.

 

[Kawl_USC]

We killed Darryl because he was pestering a few of us and there was no real reason why scum would target him at that point. He happened to be a weird PR so the thought I provided to the thread was that scum likely had a role cop that had checked him earlier in the game.

Funny coincidence aside, the comparison falls apart when considering the two players approach/strengths. Bronx has showed himself to be a formidable player when playing to a solo win condition, but isn't an attack dog like Darryl who can get scum flustered and actually make good on political capital to push those reads.

 

[Sorian]

Funny coincidence aside, the comparison falls apart when considering the two players approach/strengths. Bronx has showed himself to be a formidable player when playing to a solo win condition, but isn't an attack dog like Darryl who can get scum flustered and actually make good on political capital to push those reads.

I still have trouble considering Bronx a formidable player. Infamous sounds like an anomaly more than anything (sorry Bronx) but it does present an interesting that that someone who would want to kill Bronx aid more attention to that game.

 

[Faddy]

Funny coincidence aside, the comparison falls apart when considering the two players approach/strengths. Bronx has showed himself to be a formidable player when playing to a solo win condition, but isn't an attack dog like Darryl who can get scum flustered and actually make good on political capital to push those reads.

I still have trouble considering Bronx a formidable player. Infamous sounds like an anomaly more than anything (sorry Bronx) but it does present an interesting that that someone who would want to kill Bronx aid more attention to that game.

Earlier Kawl advanced his theory about Bronx and I asked which player were involved and would target Bronx for such a reason. He did not provide any names.