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[TheGreatDave]

If you guys want to play the song correctly buy a real drumset.

Shit, those poor guys that bought a $300 toy drum set!

 

[sublime085]

That's it. No more videos for me.

Bodhisattva looks really fun though.

 

[Dirtbag]

Oh I love how you can't fail a song after you've completed it by banging around after the notes. So simple, but really nice to solo for a second at the end of a song with no penalty.

Also, the sounds during the star power freestyle section are much better, and not cranked up in volume to sound so goofy.

 

[duderon]

Shit, those poor guys that bought a $300 toy drum set!

I'm predicting the Ion drumset will have the biggest complaint list of any RB instrument. You heard it here first.

 

[birdman]

I'm predicting the Ion drumset will have the biggest complaint list of any RB instrument. You heard it here first.

At least this time you can't blame EA! :lol

 

[TAJ]

If you guys want to play the song correctly buy a real drumset.

This is the sort of damage control I'd only expect from a viral marketer or an irredeemable Ninthing.

 

[M3wThr33]

So PS2 and Wii version = 2 disks confirmed?

Theres no way they can fit 100 songs + prerendered video into 8GB.


Or will we get only 65 songs

I'm guessing you'll get 84.

'Not ready' could also mean not ready to record the video to compress in time for the discs.

 

[TheGreatDave]

I'm predicting the Ion drumset will have the biggest complaint list of any RB instrument. You heard it here first.

Its $300. Standards are high.

 

[duderon]

This is the sort of damage control I'd only expect from a viral marketer or an irredeemable Ninthing.

Please, you're not playing on a real set, therefore compromises must be made. You're not going to be able to hit the exact drums the original drummer was playing in the song and due to the way the original RB drum set is set up 16th notes on the hi-hat are going to be played on the red pad.

 

[TAJ]

Please, you're not playing on a real set, therefore compromises must be made. You're not going to be able to hit the exact drums the original drummer was playing in the song and due to the way the original RB drum set is set up 16th notes on the hi-hat are going to be played on the red pad.

Major compromises needed to be made with RB1, past tense. Now, the biggest compromise that needs to be made, in a game that takes the current controllers into account, is having no difference between open and closed hi-hat. If Harmonix can't live with that, they can add a pedal in RB3.

 

[saunderez]

Please, you're not playing on a real set, therefore compromises must be made. You're not going to be able to hit the exact drums the original drummer was playing in the song and due to the way the original RB drum set is set up 16th notes on the hi-hat are going to be played on the red pad.

But you're missing the point. The ION kit is an officially licensed peripheral yet HMX have made no attempt at modifying their game for the kit to make it's purchase worthwhile.

 

[DrEvil]

I'm predicting the Ion drumset will have the biggest complaint list of any RB instrument. You heard it here first.

I dunno man, I played with it at E3 and it's what made me buy it... I had to try it before I put down that cash, and I can tell you, at least in my eyes, it's going to be worth EVERY penny.

That, and it's damn responsive too... no more dropped notes on the rolls! and the kick pedal is very comfy too.. you don't need to fully press it for it to activate, so you can be much quicker..

 

[TAJ]

But you're missing the point. The ION kit is an officially licensed peripheral yet HMX have made no attempt at modifying their game for the kit to make it's purchase worthwhile.

This isn't even about the ION kit. It's about the regular RB2 drum kit.

 

[duderon]

Major compromises needed to be made with RB1, past tense. Now, the biggest compromise that needs to be made, in a game that takes the current controllers into account, is having no difference between open and closed hi-hat. If Harmonix can't live with that, they can add a pedal in RB3.

I wasn't talking about whether the hi-hat was open or closed. The major concern in these songs is when you're playing 16th notes on the hi-hat and the snare hit that comes in between most of the hi-hat notes. This could not be changed by adding another pedal. Harmonix would have to make a separate chart for people that would want to play hi-hat 16ths on the yellow pad and snare hits on the red, for specific songs like RttH and Everlong.

I dunno man, I played with it at E3 and it's what made me buy it... I had to try it before I put down that cash, and I can tell you, at least in my eyes, it's going to be worth EVERY penny.

That, and it's damn responsive too... no more dropped notes on the rolls! and the kick pedal is very comfy too.. you don't need to fully press it for it to activate, so you can be much quicker..

My prediction is solely based on their previous track record. They may have figured out how to make a sturdy kit.

 

[Dirtbag]

"Did you check out the Impossible Battle yet? Prove you are worthy of owning the game early!!!!" :lol

Awesome!

 

[TAJ]

I wasn't talking about whether the hi-hat was open or closed. The major concern in these songs is when you're playing 16th notes on the hi-hat and the snare hit that comes in between most of the hi-hat notes. This could not be changed by adding another pedal. Harmonix would have to make a separate chart for people that would want to play hi-hat 16ths on the yellow pad and snare hits on the red, for specific songs like RttH and Everlong.

Open and closed would just become the new biggest issue if they went full 1:1.
I know all about the charting issue, and I've posted about the solution, which doesn't technically require separate charts, just a few instructions to modify the existing ones. Separate charts would be easier to program for, but would be inconvenient to the end-user to implement.
GH:WT will hand them their asses if they don't address this.

 

[saunderez]

GH:WT will hand them their asses if they don't address this.

I'm interested to see how GH:WT is charting for both kits.

 

[duderon]

Open and closed is just a new issue that would crop up if they went full 1:1.
I know all about the charting issue, and I've posted about the solution, which doesn't technically require separate charts, just a few instructions to modify the existing ones. Separate charts would be easier to program for, but more inconvenient to implement.
GH:WT will hand them their asses if they don't address this.

But that's the thing, drumming will never be 1:1. There will be absolutely no way to duplicate Portney or Pert's kit. If you're good at drumming on a RB kit you can get on a real kit and jam. It doesn't matter what pads you're hitting in RB, the skills still transfer fine on a real drum set if you just want to fool around. A hi-hat pedal would be fun, though.

 

[TAJ]

But that's the thing, drumming will never be 1:1. There will be absolutely no way to duplicate Portney or Pert's kit. If you're good at drumming on a RB kit you can get on a real kit and jam. It doesn't matter what pads you're hitting in RB, the skills still transfer fine on a real drum set if you just want to fool around. A hi-hat pedal would be fun, though.

My idea of 1:1 for this game would really just be having most types of pieces locked to a certain pad, with minor size variations ignored.
The size of those kits comes from incredible amounts of near-redundancy. Peart has at least three hi-hats, for instance. (one of them on his e-drums)
You're almost saying that you can't play Rush unless you have the kit that Neil Peart used in the studio for that song.

 

[EazyB]

Just picked up a copy at Game Play on Venice... the rumors are true.
They are out of copies for the next couple of hours, went to go pick up another shipment for tonight they said.

I fucking hate you, you're lucky I'm enjoying myself at the beach, otherwise my jealously would be at dangerous levels.

 

[duderon]

My idea of 1:1 for this game would really just be having most types of pieces locked to a certain pad, with minor size variations ignored.
The size of those kits comes from incredible amounts of near-redundancy. Peart has at least three hi-hats, for instance. (one of them on his e-drums)
You're almost saying that you can't play Rush unless you have the kit that Neil Peart used in the studio for that song.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that 4 pads is sufficient for creating a fun drumming experience. Adding another pad doesn't change much of anything. Although a hi-hat pedal would add a good amount of difficulty and fun.

 

[TAJ]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that 4 pads is sufficient for creating a fun drumming experience. Adding another pad doesn't change much of anything. Although a hi-hat pedal would add a good amount of difficulty and fun.

They added three pads, though. It would be pretty damned funny if GH:WT got significantly closer to the real deal with two less pads.
Four colors for the charts is enough, but the ability to go high when appropriate is a must. Making the gems look slightly different for the cymbal hits (kind of like the HOPOs on guitar) would be ideal, but first things first.

 

[Dirtbag]

Just turned the corner with my omega pedal. Think I've finally got it honed into where I like it. It's amazing how much you can customize the pedal.... it's like the opposite experience of playing with the stock plastic one.

I need to figure out what adapter I need to make this pedal work with my ion drums.

I fucking hate you, you're lucky I'm enjoying myself at the beach, otherwise my jealously would be at dangerous levels.

So you got my text message.

I'd like to add that I hit the beach yesterday and finished my book finally. So I've had the beach and Rockband 2.. MUAHAHAHHA

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

No Tangled Up in Blue yet?

 

[MaizeRage25]

This may be a dumb question (or already addressed), but will we be forming online bands in this thread or will there be a thread in the Online forum or not at all?

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Traded in RB 1 this past sunday after the export patch hit, and am going through withdrawal. It was a calculated move to make the purchase of RB2 that much sweeter. But man, watching all these videos of the game is making it harder and harder.

At least reading the confirmed list and whatnot for GHWT is making it feel better. RB 2 is by far the superior game(judging by playlist.)

 

[M3wThr33]

You know, I'm not as jealous as I expected, but that's probably because I spent 5 hours last night on GHWT. And I'll be playing just as long with RB2 on Friday.

Still... 1 more month. :| This Friday's DLC needs to be epic. The month of August and September so far have been pretty lacklustre.

 

[AMUSIX]

I wasn't talking about whether the hi-hat was open or closed. The major concern in these songs is when you're playing 16th notes on the hi-hat and the snare hit that comes in between most of the hi-hat notes. This could not be changed by adding another pedal. Harmonix would have to make a separate chart for people that would want to play hi-hat 16ths on the yellow pad and snare hits on the red, for specific songs like RttH and Everlong.

My issue is more the arbitrary reassigning of the snare.

It's like having a platformer, where A is jump. Except on any level that takes place in the ice zone, X is jump, because then A gets used for traction, which you'll need more there. Unless you're in one of the snow-drift sections of the ice zone...then jump is back on A.

That's exactly what Harmonix has done here with the charting. They painted themselves into a corner with a symmetrical kit, and now that they have a way out (with both the Ion kit and their own cymbal ports) they've chosen to ignore it. Would it mean recharting the songs? Yes, but only minor recharting (swap Y with R in large segments). Meanwhile their competitor, widely considered to be much less 'into' the music, have active recharting of their entire catalog in order to make it work with non-official kits.

Asking that the game detect the presence of a yellow expansion cymbal (be it through Harmonix's port, or the ION controller, or the Activision kit) and change the half-dozen songs that are affected by this really isn't expecting too much from a team that have repeatedly championed their dedication to playing music and its recreation.

 

[AMUSIX]

Traded in RB 1 this past sunday after the export patch hit, and am going through withdrawal. It was a calculated move to make the purchase of RB2 that much sweeter. But man, watching all these videos of the game is making it harder and harder.

Download the GH:Aerosmith demo. Those 5 songs might get you through the next few days

 

[M3wThr33]

My issue is more the arbitrary reassigning of the snare.

It's like having a platformer, where A is jump. Except on any level that takes place in the ice zone, X is jump, because then A gets used for traction, which you'll need more there. Unless you're in one of the snow-drift sections of the ice zone...then jump is back on A.

That's exactly what Harmonix has done here with the charting. They painted themselves into a corner with a symmetrical kit, and now that they have a way out (with both the Ion kit and their own cymbal ports) they've chosen to ignore it. Would it mean recharting the songs? Yes, but only minor recharting (swap Y with R in large segments). Meanwhile their competitor, widely considered to be much less 'into' the music, have active recharting of their entire catalog in order to make it work with non-official kits.

Asking that the game detect the presence of a yellow expansion cymbal (be it through Harmonix's port, or the ION controller, or the Activision kit) and change the half-dozen songs that are affected by this really isn't expecting too much from a team that have repeatedly championed their dedication to playing music and its recreation.

This is the same kind of bitching RB1 had when people were 'promised' Online BWT and wanted to change their character's instruments.

 

[Belgand]

Dave = sense.

Based on your tag shouldn't you be feigning insanity and cheating with nymphs?

 

[AMUSIX]

This is the same kind of bitching RB1 had when people were 'promised' Online BWT and wanted to change their character's instruments.

I don't see the parallel. Characters changing instruments is a cosmetic issue at best. It is not changing a controller configuration in the middle of the level.

I'd be far more understanding of this if the yellow=snare songs kept the snare on yellow, but that is not the case.

If you're still having trouble understanding this, apply it to the guitar. More or less, Green is a lower note than Red. (The times that this changes are due to progressive scales eg.R-Y-B-O-G-R-Y). Now, take a song with the following run on 16ths [R-R-R-RG-R-R-R-RG-R-R-R-RG] were R is E' and G is B'. If Harmonix decided to swap the R and G assignments in order to make it easier to play people would be screaming.

 

[M3wThr33]

I don't see the parallel. Characters changing instruments is a cosmetic issue at best. It is not changing a controller configuration in the middle of the level.

I'd be far more understanding of this if the yellow=snare songs kept the snare on yellow, but that is not the case.

If you're still having trouble understanding this, apply it to the guitar. More or less, Green is a lower note than Red. (The times that this changes are due to progressive scales eg.R-Y-B-O-G-R-Y). Now, take a song with the following run on 16ths [R-R-R-RG-R-R-R-RG-R-R-R-RG] were R is E' and G is B'. If Harmonix decided to swap the R and G assignments in order to make it easier to play people would be screaming.

I mean it'll be in RB3 as the big feature.

 

[Belgand]

My idea of 1:1 for this game would really just be having most types of pieces locked to a certain pad, with minor size variations ignored.
The size of those kits comes from incredible amounts of near-redundancy. Peart has at least three hi-hats, for instance. (one of them on his e-drums)
You're almost saying that you can't play Rush unless you have the kit that Neil Peart used in the studio for that song.

Agreed. Just pulling out the latest Musician's Friend catalog for the cheapest electronic kit (a $500 Simmons) you have snare, high, low, and floor toms, crash and ride cymbals, hit-hat with a controller pedal, and a bass pad (pedal isn't included, but we'll just say it is).

This is, essentially, the stock RB2 kit with the 3 cymbal add-ons and a hi-hat controller. The system is almost completely able to support a real, basic kit. If we assume that instead of a double bass pedal we could have a hi-hat pedal then, yeah, we're all the way there. As Amusix said the ability to re-do charts for people interested in buying the full set would work pretty well and give us something close enough to 1:1 to be reasonable. No, you won't have everything and some compromises will have to be made, but it'll be a lot closer.

Honestly, the biggest problem I can see is finding space to show all of this in the interface without it becoming too cluttered or hard to read. Hi-hat would be pretty simple as it could be shown like a HO/PO or with a filled-in gem vs. an "empty" gem for open notes. Cymbals I'm not certain about. Sure there's room for one more note on the bar as it currently exists (to bring it in line with the guitar and bass), but I'm not sure where you'd fit the other two. Even GHWT didn't go above 5 notes plus a bass bar. Hopefully Rock Revolution will answer this question for us.

 

[Belgand]

I don't see the parallel. Characters changing instruments is a cosmetic issue at best. It is not changing a controller configuration in the middle of the level.

I'd be far more understanding of this if the yellow=snare songs kept the snare on yellow, but that is not the case.

If you're still having trouble understanding this, apply it to the guitar. More or less, Green is a lower note than Red. (The times that this changes are due to progressive scales eg.R-Y-B-O-G-R-Y). Now, take a song with the following run on 16ths [R-R-R-RG-R-R-R-RG-R-R-R-RG] were R is E' and G is B'. If Harmonix decided to swap the R and G assignments in order to make it easier to play people would be screaming.

I think far more people are tone-deaf than you realize. Maybe it's just me though. I really need to spend a lot of time on ear training because, well, I'm absolutely terrible at identifying a pitch and sometimes at telling if it's higher or lower.

 

[pizzapizza64]

You know, I'm not as jealous as I expected, but that's probably because I spent 5 hours last night on GHWT. And I'll be playing just as long with RB2 on Friday.

Still... 1 more month. :| This Friday's DLC needs to be epic. The month of August and September so far have been pretty lacklustre.

We stand together in our wait, M3wThr33.

Of course, my friend will have it for the 360, so that helps.

 

[TAJ]

Honestly, the biggest problem I can see is finding space to show all of this in the interface without it becoming too cluttered or hard to read. Hi-hat would be pretty simple as it could be shown like a HO/PO or with a filled-in gem vs. an "empty" gem for open notes. Cymbals I'm not certain about. Sure there's room for one more note on the bar as it currently exists (to bring it in line with the guitar and bass), but I'm not sure where you'd fit the other two. Even GHWT didn't go above 5 notes plus a bass bar. Hopefully Rock Revolution will answer this question for us.

They're pretty much locked into four colors unless they completely rechart every song. I'm not asking for that. I really hadn't even considered it.
My solutions would be... (for kits with cymbals only)

Lazy, ghetto solution- Lock hi-hat to yellow at all times. Lock snare to red at all times. Lock ride symbal to blue at all times. Lock crash cymbal to green at all times.
Just let people figure out when they're supposed to be using the cymbals based on what they're hearing or by looking at the drummer model. Hitting any pad assigned to the correct color continues combo and gives the same score.

Nearly fully-evolved solution #1- Same as lazy, ghetto solution but with a different look to cymbal hit gems. (based on drummer animation data to save work?)

Nearly fully-evolved solution #2- Same as the previous, but the player must use the cymbals and pads as specified. This would be slightly more difficult, so you might need to segregate the leader boards

Really almost there- Same as the previous, but with a further different yellow gem for open hi-hat, and added hi-hat pedal. Would possibly call for new difficulty designation, ('Real"? lol) and certainly different leader boards.

Be-all, end-all- Same as the previous, but with double-bass charted. Oops, more work!

 

[Saerk]

I'm really digging the Modest Mouse song. I hadn't really heard it before, but I'm liking it. I'm thinking that is going to be quickly added to my favorites to sing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-amayZ1zWQ


*Doopian has some drum vids up including Everlong. Just use the Modest Mouse link and go to his videos page.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Download the GH:Aerosmith demo. Those 5 songs might get you through the next few days

No drums on it But the guitar wasnt bad. It was nice to see that they tighened up the HO/PO window, but the main thing the GH Aerosmith demo did was reiterate how much Neversoft messed up GH. Maybe if they stop trying to exremify everything among other things then I will be more excited for a GH game again.

I guess Rock Band has spoiled me for good.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I just releaized that there really is no reason for HMX holding back the European release of the game other than them being complete bastards....

JUST PRINT THE GAME FOR PAL MACHINES.... IT IS NOT THAT HARD... I DONT NEED NEW INSTRUMENTS

 

[Dirtbag]

Wow, I'm really liking the challenge system for unlocking songs.. and just in general.
Having enjoyed the way geometry wars 2 has done the high-score system (listing off your friends by score) way more than I ever thought I would, I can see how the similar system found in RB2 is going to make this game much more exciting.

Of course I have duderon on my friends list, so I don't plan on competing for first place with the drums...

The whole thing is just like a really tightened up RB experience. Its really polished
One of my favorites of the less talked about improvements:
They have vastly improved song navigation on track selection screen... especially with the drums! I can jump around the list quickly and get to the songs I like. It'll make the Rock Band 1 system feel archaic.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

By the way, what is the impossible challenge for getting the game early that was mentioned earlier? I say the screen asking how you got it early, but what was the challenge?

 

[Knox]

No drums on it But the guitar wasnt bad. It was nice to see that they tighened up the HO/PO window, but the main thing the GH Aerosmith demo did was reiterate how much Neversoft messed up GH. Maybe if they stop trying to exremify everything among other things then I will be more excited for a GH game again.

I guess Rock Band has spoiled me for good.

I went and played this too. My biggest thing going back to GH was how cluttered and hard to read it is. Rock Band's UI has definitely spoiled me.

Pretty awesome of them to give away the best parts of that game for free though (Dream On and Walk This Way).

 

[saunderez]

It'll make the Rock Band 1 system feel archaic.

The RB1 track selection felt archaic after the first bunch of DLC came out. Even GH3 did a better job of it by putting DLC tracks in their own tab. The new system is VERY welcome, particularly if you have 200+ tracks to wade through.

 

[Justin]

By the way, what is the impossible challenge for getting the game early that was mentioned earlier? I say the screen asking how you got it early, but what was the challenge?

You have to play a set of Panic Attack, Visions and Painkiller with overdrive turned off.

 

[saunderez]

You have to play a set of Panic Attack, Visions and Painkiller with overdrive turned off.

Wow.....glad I ain't gonna be around for that one

 

[Xevren]

You have to play a set of Panic Attack, Visions and Painkiller with overdrive turned off.

Brutal. Any idea if they force you to play on a certain difficulty?

 

[Dirtbag]

By the way, what is the impossible challenge for getting the game early that was mentioned earlier? I say the screen asking how you got it early, but what was the challenge?

Duration
Battle ends 5 days from now

Rules:
Expert only
No overdrive

3 song setlist (played in a row):
1). Pain killer - Judas Prist
2). Panic Attack - Dream Theater
3). Visions - Abnormality

 

[Xevren]

Definitely gonna have to give that a go. The charts seemed passable to me without OD. Not going to like challenges that have no OD rules for Afterlife or Constant Motion though thats for sure. Challenges are definitely going to be awesome.

 

[parasight]

http://kotaku.com/5048274/harmonix-to-release-rock-band-acdc

Hopefully as DLC.