Robert J. Sullivan
Member
don't worry, it was a bad joke in reference to an even worse post
your list is all right
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Rock Paper Shotgun's GOTY 2013 [John Walker responds to your deep concerns]
- Thread starter epmode
- Start date
don't worry, it was a bad joke in reference to an even worse post
your list is all right
The first few pages are littered with posts complaining about RPS' choices and making several misconceptions, even coming down to something as basic as the very nature of the website. John Walker's bother(er)ed to come in here and offer various explanations, and if people are too lazy to visit the website and read RPS' reasoning for their individual GOTY choices before feeling the burning need to lash out, they can at least make an effort to read what Walker posted here.
Posters are perfectly free and even encouraged to engage in meaningful criticism of the choices on this or any list, and to offer alternative choices of their own in response. Ideally this would come after reading the OP and the pieces written for each game on RPS' list so as not to add to the general noise.
I find myself increasingly frustrated that nobody appears to have played Shadow Warrior, much less wrote about it. It's as if people watched an ad, then went on their merry way. Literally the smartest script of a game I've encountered this year. Wonderfully tragic story. Uniquely-paced combat (in a VERY good way), cool subversion of a lot of tropes. Deserves all your love. Everyone, please play it. It's amazing, especially if you pay attention to the narrative.
*soapbox gone*
I have yet to see anyone complain that Forza 5 has not made GOTY lists in any Nintendo or Playstation publication.
Do what I do when it comes to these things: take a list with things on it you know nothing about and use it to say "hm, I will try these things. These people liked them quite a bit; maybe I will too." Use it as a way to find new things to enjoy. That is how GOTY lists should work for the audience, imo.
I don't care about how people might rank lists (and RPS didn't, which is awesome), but I do care what they thought everyone should play.
If you don't know about a game or haven't played, and someone puts it on a GOTY list, then consider prioritizing it, or at least checking it out. The best possible outcome is that you find something new to love. The worst is that you shrug and wander off.
*soapbox gone*
I have yet to see anyone complain that Forza 5 has not made GOTY lists in any Nintendo or Playstation publication.
Do what I do when it comes to these things: take a list with things on it you know nothing about and use it to say "hm, I will try these things. These people liked them quite a bit; maybe I will too." Use it as a way to find new things to enjoy. That is how GOTY lists should work for the audience, imo.
I don't care about how people might rank lists (and RPS didn't, which is awesome), but I do care what they thought everyone should play.
If you don't know about a game or haven't played, and someone puts it on a GOTY list, then consider prioritizing it, or at least checking it out. The best possible outcome is that you find something new to love. The worst is that you shrug and wander off.
CecilRousso
Member
I read their texts about Monaco, and I want to try to like it again.It really does not click, but the art style is lovely that I still haven't given up completely about it.
A genuine question: How do I play Monaco so I don't get frustrated about how easily the guards spot me?
A genuine question: How do I play Monaco so I don't get frustrated about how easily the guards spot me?
I couldn't think of a more perfect gif to use in response to your post. It really sucks to see so many people brush off this list as "lol Indies". Quite a few spots on my top 10 are indies this year, not because it the "hipster" thing to do but because they're fucking incredible games.
I do the exact same thing with top 10's and game of the year lists every year. If I see something that I don't know about or haven't played, I put it as priority. I've already went out and bought Legend of Zelda, Papers Please, and Proteus because of Giant Bomb discussions.
I have a really shitty laptop that I play steam games on, so my options are limited on what PC games I can get. I was looking up trailers of Shadow Warrior based off of your praise, but I was afraid my laptop wouldn't be able to run it. Turns out it can! I'm going to buy it as soon as it drops during a flash/daily deal. It's on my wishlist right now.
To be fair, I can't think of a single great stealth game released after Thief 2. Everything I've played pales in comparison.
I couldn't think of a more perfect gif to use in response to your post. It really sucks to see so many people brush off this list as "lol Indies". Quite a few spots on my top 10 are indies this year, not because it the "hipster" thing to do but because they're fucking incredible games.
I do the exact same thing with top 10's and game of the year lists every year. If I see something that I don't know about or haven't played, I put it as priority. I've already went out and bought Legend of Zelda, Papers Please, and Proteus because of Giant Bomb discussions.
I have a really shitty laptop that I play steam games on, so my options are limited on what PC games I can get. I was looking up trailers of Shadow Warrior based off of your praise, but I was afraid my laptop wouldn't be able to run it. Turns out it can! I'm going to buy it as soon as it drops during a flash/daily deal. It's on my wishlist right now.
Thanks for the gif. My film nerd self wonders if someone will ever use the gif in the context it's presented in the film (Kane clapping while no one else does, his rage growing as he realizes no one cares what his wife has to sing, because she's awful, and this reflects poorly on him), but, well, that's just the film nerd self who was thinking about it when I wanted to post it for someone else earlier.
Shadow Warrior's been on a daily. It hits $10 pretty regularly. When you say my praise, do you mean the ~3,000 words or so I blogged about it, or just what I posted here? (I was recently made aware some people actually read my blog)
When I look at film critic GOTY lists, they're so much more varied and diverse than game lists (they're also generally better and more well thought-out, because most game journalists are kinda shit at any kind of meaningful analysis, but I digress). I often come away from them wanting to watch a lot of movies I missed out on, usually due to lack of interest/awareness. That, to me, is what these lists are all about.
So I always kinda find myself puzzled when someone's like 'this list is worthless 'cause I don't know these games.'
Like... yeah. That's the point. What worth does the list have if you've played all the games on them? Some random person is ranking games in a way that may or may not align with what you like. Surely someone going "this THING you DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT is REALLY COOL and I think YOU SHOULD TRY IT" is more valuable ("oh, I have just found something NEW to LOVE!") than "someone is putting these things I already love/hate/don't care about in an ordered list"?
I REALLY wish I had more than enough money to justify buying the games on the list, but the truth is that my job isn't letting us work (or get paid) until January 20th or so, so money's SUPER TIGHT and I can't justify more than the ~$20 I spent on games this month. I'd love to check out KRZ and AC4, but I just can't. :|
Can you explain this stance, please? The game wasn't fully, officially and publicly released until this year. It wasn't version 1.0 so what's the basis? Every game that has a beta will be counted as a game that 'came out' in the year the beta did? Does it need to be closed or open beta? Does access to beta need to be free? etc. etc.
And this brings out to the issue of paid-Alpha or Early Access games. Is DayZ considered by the site a 2013 release or is there a possibility for it to appear in next year's list? What about Prison Architect, was it on the table for 2013's? And if Early Access games released this year would be eligible for 2014, how is that different from the case of Dota 2?
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Got to agree with DocSeuss. I hadn't heard about Kentucky Route Zero so that goty list is already more useful to me than any other I've seen so far. Volgarr should have been on there though 
Imp the Dimp
Member
Walker comes across as a little bit arrogant tbh. I agree with most of what he says except Dota 2 being a 2012 game (based on what?) but no need to be so passive aggressive about everything.
Got to agree with DocSeuss. I hadn't heard about Kentucky Route Zero so that goty list is already more useful to me than any other I've seen so far. Volgarr should have been on there though
When I do my personal GOTY list over on my blog, I hope to do a mix of "you should rethink this game you played and disregarded," and "this game you didn't play is really good," and "yes, I want to reaffirm what everyone's saying about this game."
Been kinda thinking I'd go ahead and go through the ~50 games I beat this year and write a paragraph or two about all of 'em.
Alex
Member
Agree with this bit in it's entirety, I don't really take awards very seriously in any medium but dear lord are they offensive in this hobby to a shocking degree and people actually defend them (see this thread, for christ sakes). People like to berate and act like they're superior to the media a lot of the year but don't fill up the list with vapid big budget titles and safe franchise updates and watch the tears.
His responce is perfect for the butthurt children itt who can't handle the fact people like games they don't.
Not a damned thing wrong with what he said, and maybe if these people got (deservedly) talked down to like this and treated like the manchildren that they are maybe we'd see less of this fucking bs plague the forum.
Maybe I'm being a little too optimistic though ;P
seeing deviation from groupthink causes discomfort in most people, part of the reason persecution happens.
Kadayi
Banned
Can't say it appeals to me (not a platformer fan whatsoever) , but given the previous working relationships and friendships that exist between Francis and some of the RPS writers I'd hazard that it was omitted from the 24 in the same way that Jims 'Sir you are being hunted' was to avoid accusations of cronyism. Fully expect honorable mentions in the follow up articles.
I don't know the exact date but Dota 2 was readily available to anyone who wanted it very long before its "release date." The coverage of the release date everywhere was pretty much "lol ok then". The game was defacto released far earlier than this summer.
Not only RPS gave the game official treatment in 2012.
Much like KRZ is a partially completed episodic game which was given game of the year consideration because people enjoyed it and voted for it, dota 2 had that level of support in 2012. I understand it as simply being silly to put it on game of the year twice.
It seems fine to look at this as a case by case factor for future games of questionable timing.
Not only RPS gave the game official treatment in 2012.
Much like KRZ is a partially completed episodic game which was given game of the year consideration because people enjoyed it and voted for it, dota 2 had that level of support in 2012. I understand it as simply being silly to put it on game of the year twice.
It seems fine to look at this as a case by case factor for future games of questionable timing.
Chris23235
Banned
They had the game on 2012's list, were is the problem? RPS writer Cara Ellison had a long article in how he described why he thinks the game is the GOTY 2012 (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/25/magnificent-important-advent-calendar-bonus-door/). And because of this, they decided not to include the game in the 2013 list, at least to me a completely understandable argumentation.
I just read your post about it, but I would love to read your blog and thoughts on it and other recommendations if you want to post a link.
Oh gosh, now that I know the context of the gif... I plan on bringing up my film knowledge this year; I'm going to try to watch 356 movies I haven't seen before. My girlfriend is the major movie buff in the relationship, so I got to try to catch up with her -- although I never will -- I started a blog to catalogue not just that, but games and music I discover. Iridiumtripped.wordpress.org.
I'll be doing a 2013 top 10 list before year's end.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Citadel is seriously good shit. But I think Knife of Dunwall + Brigmore Witches could not only be the best paid DLC of the year, but among the top 10/5 of the generation.
Outright Villainy
Member
As another poster have said, the most useful thing you can get out of GOTY lists is recommendations for games you may not have played. It was already mentioned and recommended last year, so they'd just be repeating themselves. Even with updates, if Dota 2 didn't appeal to you then, it hasn't done much to change that, it just improved on what it had.
People need to stop looking at these lists as a sort of verification of their gaming tastes, and anyone that doesn't conform to those specific tastes is wrong. I love seeing a game I hadn't heard of previously get so much praise, I already know how great or not all the big AAA games are because they've been discussed to hell and back.
I thought this might have been a typo but you said it twice. It's she, not he. The name might be a tipoff eh?
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
Holy crap at some of the posts in this thread. I'm really hoping Kentucky Route Zero appears as a daily or flash sale on Steam over the next few days. I'm pretty sure it appeared as a Steam community vote game but you know... the Steam community vote.
I have this in a steam sale backlog. I guess I'll have to put it on the top of my queue.
I'm just asking why was Dota 2 considered under the year 2012 rather than 2013 and what does it mean for Alpha\Early Access games.
I was going to take the plunge for it, but then I realized it's not even the full game. There are 3 more episodes left and a new episode hasn't come out in 7 months. I want to buy this game eventually, but I want to know it will be completed and in a timely manner.
There are so many digital sales that you rarely ever have to pay $15-20 for an amazing short game. I tend to settle for the $5-10 range myself.
CecilRousso
Member
Two hours might be correct for Gone Home and Kentucky Route Zero, but are there any other that list that are that short?
PetriP-TNT
Member
Great list, don't get the outrage.
From what I heard, Brothers and Proteus are around that time.
I've enjoyed some games by the big boys like Tomb Raider and Blood dragon, but out of what I've played this year I've also really enjoyed Rouge Legacy and Papers, please.
If I had to make a top 24 list I think it would be padded with indies too this year.
eot
Banned
You may be right, but at a glace the game looks awful. To me anyway, and I even have some nostalgia for the original. The colour palette, the look of the demons, the bloom, it'a just off-putting.
Because most people were probably playing it in 2012. There are no rules for how to make a GOTY list.
And here I am, putting more time into games like Europa Universalis IV, ArmA 3, Wargame Airland Battle and Path of Exile than I could ever hope to put into the AAA action games that dominate other platforms.
CecilRousso
Member
Proteus? Does it even have an ending? I thought it was just about exploring randomly generated islands.
Chris23235
Banned
I thought this might have been a typo but you said it twice. It's she, not he. The name might be a tipoff eh?[/QUOTE]
You're obviously right, shouldn't post while eating my breakfast
You're obviously right, shouldn't post while eating my breakfast
From what the GiantBomb podcast was saying is that there is a definite ending. I bought it the other day, but I've been playing Rouge Legacy nonstop. I'll get back to you and let you know though.
The entire splinter cell series? Hitman started the same year Thief 2 came out as well. Even if you don't consider them as great as Thief 2, they're still far better than Dishonored at stealth.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
Yeah, I'm with you there. I'm not usually a fan of paying for content before I know whether it's good or not (which is exactly why I would never EVER pay for a season pass for anything). I do make the odd exception though and this may be one of those times.
Did you complain as much when Episode 1 of TWD won the VGA's last year?
You do realize they voted for Dota 2 last year when it was by too many people's assertions in this thread incomplete?
IlludiumQ36
Member
I throw in my support for Shadow Warrior as well - exceptionally good fun. It was just updated with some free content too,
eot
Banned
Season 1, not episode 1
It was season 1, and yeah it shouldn't have won.
Yeah those games really could learn a thing or two from $60 games that last 4 hours.
Kadayi
Banned
Not played gone home yet, but to be fair Kentucky route zero is longer than 2 hours in terms of play time, plus 3 more episodes to come.
Because it's not like we need better writing in games......oh no wait we totally do
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Brothers is more like 3+ hours, Proteus is fewer than 2 for a single run-through.
i think probably dota 2 is a special case for several reasons
it was one of the first big early access games on steam, it had already been in playable beta for a long time, it was arguably "done" (missing content but mechanically complete), and it was widely available to those who wanted in on it
now that early access games are so prevalent on steam rps might have to come up with some official policy wrt goty placement for them, or they might just take them on a case by case basis and judge them when they feel they're "done" enough. either way dota 2 was highlighted last year and definitely does not need the spotlight like a lot of these indie games do, which imo is an important part of the goty list function.
edit: also yes proteus does have an "ending" (first time i reached it i wasn't sure if it was a bug, amusingly) but there's lots of stuff you won't see on a single playthrough
it was one of the first big early access games on steam, it had already been in playable beta for a long time, it was arguably "done" (missing content but mechanically complete), and it was widely available to those who wanted in on it
now that early access games are so prevalent on steam rps might have to come up with some official policy wrt goty placement for them, or they might just take them on a case by case basis and judge them when they feel they're "done" enough. either way dota 2 was highlighted last year and definitely does not need the spotlight like a lot of these indie games do, which imo is an important part of the goty list function.
edit: also yes proteus does have an "ending" (first time i reached it i wasn't sure if it was a bug, amusingly) but there's lots of stuff you won't see on a single playthrough