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Rock Paper Shotgun's GOTY 2013 [John Walker responds to your deep concerns]

K

kingofthedead45

Member
Yoooo the salt on the first page is hilarious. What a strange cycle Indie games are going through, at some point they won't be "Indie games" any more
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
epmode said:
I don't think any of the main RPS writers play Dota so that would explain why it's missing.

It'd be nice to see them bring on a MOBA-specific writer, though.
Click to expand...

They had it on their list last year.
 
A

Atomski

Member
Ratrat said:
I still can't wrap my head around the Stanley Parable critical acclaim. A few others feel like pretty lousy 'games' as well.
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Its my game of the year. I typically hate game stories because they are awful and try to hard to be like movies. Stanley Parable though just cracked me up.. I couldnt wait to find a new ending. So it kinda broke my not giving a shit about game stories attitude.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
fresquito said:
I'm pretty sure the people at RPS think there're games from other platforms worth being GOTY. PC games. But this is the RPS (the site) GOTY list, which means the GOTY list for PC gaming by RPS standards. If's easy to understand. I don't get why so many people get hurt to see a list where there's no TLoU or GTAV.
Click to expand...

I understand its a PC only list, as I have said. Doesn't change it from being a shit one. So many great games are missing.
 
S

spirity

Member
Pyscho_Mantis said:
The only thing I'm laughing at is that list. Platform exclusive GOTY lists look incredibly stupid 9 times out of ten simply because there are usually great games on other platforms as well.

The website actually is pretty interesting. I've already com across a few games that have piqued my interest despite never hearing of them before. Its great there are sites for the smaller games.
Click to expand...

Its a good site for certain, I read it regularly. Just be sure to ignore its more moralistic leanings when the writers come up with an idea after too much gassy lemonade. You'll thank me for it.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
Opiate said:
I see your point, but very few games do many things well simultaneously, and presumably we can agree that game play is the central concern of... a game.

For example, games with very high budgets are not likely to have inventive game play, for obvious reasons. Games with low budgets are not likely to be superficially pretty, also for obvious reasons. In a world governed by economic realities you can't expect any specific game to excel at everything all at once.
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I agree, but great works usually combine more than one aspect to make something where the whole is great and not just 1 aspect. That's why categories exist. Personally I prefer games where art and design come together. This isn't some far fetched position to take personally, as books/T.V/movies/music are the same. A book with bad writing but with good characters and story can be considered a good book, a movie with bad cinematography and bad acting and pacing but with a good story and characters can be considered a good movie, etc etc etc But when I want to recognize the best of the year, I have to look at what a whole achieves.

Gameplay is not the central concern of a game in the way you put it, just as plot is not the central concern of a movie. It can be, but it doesn't have to. Just like a great beat or great lyrics individually don't have to be the main concern of a song. There's multiple ways to skin a cat (so they say), and you could swing a dead cat and hit dozens of games every year that have great gameplay mechanics. But a GOTY list has to be about something that means more. This isn't about what game is more addicting, or what game is more complex. It should be (imo) about games that brings certain elements together to create something that is fantastic.

And in that sense, it's not so much a matter of budget as it is of vision. An indie game can have great art for example, just like a 100 million dollar project can look boring and ugly. This is just an example of how budget doesn't define everything.

That said, I might be stuck in my own preferences. But they are my own, and I don't think they are unreasonable, or at least less reasonable than those of many others.
 
F

FACE

Banned
epmode said:
Yeah, I'm also barely interested in megabudget games these days. Guess I'm just a hipster doofus.
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Can't say I care about AAA games, but they did vote for Skyrim as their 2011 GOTY which instantly invalidates their opinions about anything, ever(to me :p).

Edit: That was actually strike two, strike one was that godawful FO: New Vegas review *angrily shakes fist at screen*
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Pyscho_Mantis said:
I understand its a PC only list, as I have said. Doesn't change it from being a shit one. So many great games are missing.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, every other gaming site is going to make sure everybody knows that the best games all year are (in no particular order)

- The Last Of Us
- GTA V
- COD: Ghosts
- Battlefield 4
- Mario 3D world
- Zelda ALBW
- Some PS4 title because PS4 is awesome (Resogun I guess)
- Some Xbone title because xbone is awesome (Forza I guess)
- some slightly obscure or smaller title to prove they're not just fucking lowest common denominator clickbait, but not too small or obscure because then people would complain they haven't heard of it. Probably Terraria or some other indie available on multiple paltforms.
- free choice
 
B

Burt

Member
FACE said:
Can't say I care about AAA games, but they did vote for Skyrim as their 2011 GOTY which instantly invalidates their opinions about anything, ever(to me :p).
Click to expand...
Yeah man, totally. How can we ever trust an outlet when they disagreed with us about one game two years ago?

No one complaining about the list has discussed what would belong on a better one, except for people whining about TLOU not being there.
 
F

fresquito

Member
Can Crusher said:
I agree, but great works usually combine more than one aspect to make something where the whole is great and not just 1 aspect. That's why categories exist. Personally I prefer games where art and design come together. This isn't some far fetched position to take personally, as books/T.V/movies/music are the same. A book with bad writing but with good characters and story can be considered a good book, a movie with bad cinematography and bad acting and pacing but with a good story and characters can be considered a good movie, etc etc etc But when I want to recognize the best of the year, I have to look at what a whole achieves.

Gameplay is not the central concern of a game in the way you put it, just as plot is not the central concern of a movie. It can be, but it doesn't have to. Just like a great beat or great lyrics individually don't have to be the main concern of a song. There's multiple ways to skin a cat (so they say), and you could swing a dead cat and hit dozens of games every year that have great gameplay mechanics. But a GOTY list has to be about something that means more. This isn't about what game is more addicting, or what game is more complex. It should be (imo) about games that brings certain elements together to create something that is fantastic.

And in that sense, it's not so much a matter of budget as it is of vision. An indie game can have great art for example, just like a 100 million dollar project can look boring and ugly. This is just an example of how budget doesn't define everything.

That said, I might be stuck in my own preferences. But they are my own, and I don't think they are unreasonable, or at least less reasonable than those of many others.
Click to expand...
I see your point, but it makes little sense. The best is not the most rounded game. The best is the game which impacted you the most, which outshined the rest, the game you look back and think: it's the best I've played this year.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
Burt said:
Yeah man, totally. How can we ever trust an outlet when they disagreed with us about one game two years ago?
Click to expand...

They also picked far cry 3 as their goty and said Dishonored is the best stealth game since Thief 2.

perfectsil said:
remember when indie games were cool when people want Journey to win GoTY 2012?
Click to expand...

That was different, that game was on a Sony platform.
 
G

GillianSeed79

Member
Atomski said:
Its my game of the year. I typically hate game stories because they are awful and try to hard to be like movies. Stanley Parable though just cracked me up.. I couldnt wait to find a new ending. So it kinda broke my not giving a shit about game stories attitude.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's in my top three games of the year this year. Besides being really funny, it's a pretty cool critique on modern video game design and conventions, as well as the illusion of choice and binary choices in most games. I can see why it's not for everybody though. It's very much an "experience" as opposed to a traditional game so if you don't like stuff like Proteus or Dear Esther, it's probably not going to register with you.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
dimb said:
Honestly this is about as mainstream indie as a list can get.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's my feeling on this as well. The fact that a number of people have mentioned they don't recognise the titles on this list suggests that the list is actually working pretty well, in that it's introducing them to (potentially) good games they haven't heard of. Isn't that more useful then listing 10 games everyone already knows and has played?

Leaving aside the utility of the list for a moment, it seems pretty solid.
 
F

FACE

Banned
Burt said:
Yeah man, totally. How can we ever trust an outlet when they disagreed with us about one game two years ago?
Click to expand...

You don't get it, bro. By picking Skyrim as their GOTY they've personally wronged me and nothing they do will make up for that transgression.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Imp the Dimp said:
He quit? Justice has been served then.

I like RPS's list quite a lot in fact. I feel that 9 out of 10 AAA games are money-hatted, overhyped, score-inflated trash cans not worthy of anybody's time with gameplay so shallow, they straight up insult my intelligence. Thank god for not awarding press-A-for-awesome games any more accolades.
Click to expand...
He was also one of the best writers on the site. But I guess one disagreeable review is a great enough sin to hate someone
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
Don't worry, every other gaming site is going to make sure everybody knows that the best games all year are (in no particular order)

- The Last Of Us
- GTA V
- COD: Ghosts
- Battlefield 4
- Mario 3D world
- Zelda ALBW
- Some PS4 title because PS4 is awesome (Resogun I guess)
- Some Xbone title because xbone is awesome (Forza I guess)
- some slightly obscure or smaller title to prove they're not just fucking lowest common denominator clickbait, but not too small or obscure because then people would complain they haven't heard of it. Probably Terraria or some other indie available on multiple paltforms.
- free choice
Click to expand...

Smaller title will probably be Tearaway for quite a few places. Platform exclusivity makes it a safe choice, since there will be a parade of people talking it up as the messiah given digital form. And even then, people will probably dismiss the list as too hipster because of it.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
fresquito said:
I see your point, but it makes little sense. The best is not the most rounded game. The best is the game which impacted you the most, which outshined the rest, the game you look back and think: it's the best I've played this year.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about well rounded games, I'm talking about games that do multiple things really well to create a fantastic whole. Those games are the ones I usually look back, and really are the best games of the year (IMO).
 
E

epmode

Member
FACE said:
Can't say I care about AAA games, but they did vote for Skyrim as their 2011 GOTY which instantly invalidates their opinions about anything, ever(to me :p).

Edit: That was actually strike two, strike one was that godawful FO: New Vegas review *angrily shakes fist at screen*
Click to expand...

I mostly use GOTY lists as suggestions for stuff that I should look into instead of treating them as some kind of authoritative document. So while their New Vegas review should be punishable by stoning, I can't write them off after they've pointed me to some really great stuff.
 
S

sclpls

Neo Member
Jexhius said:
Yeah, that's my feeling on this as well. The fact that a number of people have mentioned they don't recognise the titles on this list suggests that the list is actually working pretty well, in that it's introducing them to (potentially) good games they haven't heard of. Isn't that more useful then listing 10 games everyone already knows and has played?

Leaving aside the utility of the list for a moment, it seems pretty solid.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I very much suspect that the people complaining they don't recognize the games on the list aren't PC gamers, or at best simply don't use Steam. With the exception of Hexcells, I'm fairly certain that all the games listed are available and would have been displayed prominently on the Steam store page. From that perspective these complaints are more cheap polemics than anything else.
 
F

fresquito

Member
Can Crusher said:
I'm not talking about well rounded games, I'm talking about games that do multiple things really well to create a fantastic whole. Those games are the ones I usually look back, and really are the best games of the year (IMO).
Click to expand...
Every game has its downfalls. Even usual contenders such as TLoU or GTAV do so many things poorly.
 
F

FACE

Banned
epmode said:
I mostly use GOTY lists as suggestions for stuff that I should look into instead of treating them as some kind of authoritative document. So while their New Vegas review should be punishable by stoning, I can't write them off after they've pointed me to some really great stuff.
Click to expand...

Wait, you can do that? I've been living a lie!
 
M

megalowho

Member
fresquito said:
Once I thought GAF was full of hardcore gamers. This thread shows how wrong I was.

So many people in here laughing at games they never heard of before, believing it's a cool thing to do, but only showing their ignorance.
Click to expand...
I've played a good amount of the smaller games they highlight, and even if I like most of them to varying degrees I don't feel inclined to put every neat thing I played on a pedestal either. 24 games is fine for a year end retrospective from a collective of editors, a little bloated if you're looking for the best of the best in 2013 and incomplete when you limit it to just one platform (no fault there though, RPS is a platform specific site).

They're free to handle retrospective stuff however they see fit (the individual writeups are solid and where the real merit lies) but finding faults in the selection or overall critical filter does not necessarily mean willful ignorance or dismissal, even from drive by posters. Always a gray area when it comes to opinions, I only wish it was bigger.
 
A

Atomski

Member
FACE said:
Can't say I care about AAA games, but they did vote for Skyrim as their 2011 GOTY which instantly invalidates their opinions about anything, ever(to me :p).

Edit: That was actually strike two, strike one was that godawful FO: New Vegas review *angrily shakes fist at screen*
Click to expand...

Didnt almost all sites vote Skyrim as their GOTY 2011?

Also at least the PC version was cool with tons of modding and such.. I think it was a valid winner. What other AAA game has good mod support these days?
 
F

FACE

Banned
Atomski said:
Didnt almost all sites vote Skyrim as their GOTY 2011?

Also at least the PC version was cool with tons of modding and such.. I think it was a valid winner. What other AAA game has good mod support these days?
Click to expand...

I don't trust them, either. Anyone that likes Skyrim is my mortal enemy.

epmode said:
Haha, am I being condescending again? <3

This thread will be the end of me.
Click to expand...

Not at all, the one acting like an idiot here is me.
 
B

botherer

Member
Blackthorn said:
Perhaps they got together and were like, "What were our favourite games this year?" and answered honestly, without any concern for the consensus.

They have proven that people are offended by deviation from the AAA hegemony, though.
Click to expand...

My God man, I think he's cracked it!

JW, RPS Ed
 
Arozay

Arozay

Member
24 isn't really a tight list so it's seemingly all over the place. Even when going full hipster they've left out Guacamelee. Gonna go burn a bra in protest.
 
S

Silky

Banned
KuGsj.gif
This thread is clownin' out.

It's a good list of good games, how can you get this mad
 
F

FACE

Banned
Atomski said:
It came in second on neogaf...

Also so if you dont like AAA hand holdy cinematic games you are now a "hipster"?
Click to expand...

Is that so? *adds NeoGAF to list of places that shouldn't be trusted*

Yeah, bro. If you don't love awesome cinematic experiences™ like Uncharted and TLoU then you're a hipster, you have no fashion sense and you probably smell bad.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
personally, I'm not that big of a fan of krz, except its visual design. it just doesn't seem like you do much in the game.


then again, I don't play many adventure games in general. Loved Sam and Max games and Machinarium though.
 
A

Atomski

Member
FACE said:
Is that so? *adds NeoGAF to list of places that shouldn't be trusted*

Yeah, bro. If you don't love awesome cinematic experiences™ like Uncharted and TLoU then you're a hipster, you have no fashion sense and you probably smell bad.
Click to expand...

Guess its time to start dressing funny and hitting on those young girls with glasses and big sweaters.

Wooo!
 
J

jim-jam bongs

Member
FACE said:
Is that so? *adds NeoGAF to list of places that shouldn't be trusted*

Yeah, bro. If you don't love awesome cinematic experiences™ like Uncharted and TLoU then you're a hipster, you have no fashion sense and you probably smell bad.
Click to expand...

Fuck it, you know what? I'm going to go buy an iPhone and a Macbook Air then sit around drinking Starbucks and telling people about how shitty big corporations are.
 
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