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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Avatar works for you, that's great. It works for a ton of people. But there's nothing wrong with people complaining about the story, because it's definitely the films weakest point. Cliche can be alright as long as something new is done with it. And Avatar's story really does nothing new.

Avatar is almost a sequel to his undersea documentaries. He's more interested in showing you a world you've never seen than in telling you an interesting story.
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I don't see how anyone can think this is not true. The story was fine and I did care about the main players involved, but it wasn't terribly original. Still, the way it was presented was pretty neat, and the film was visually stunning. I look forward to watching it again in IMAX.

P.S. Still think Michelle Rodriguez and the typical marines "RAAH WARRRRR" characters were the most annoying part of the movie. (just like Aliens)
 
Just saw this. The predictable nature of the story didn't bother me at all. I knew what was going to happen, but I couldn't help but want to find out how. Also ... seeing this in 3D was almost life changing for me. I don't even watch movies in the theater all that much because I like my HDTV and Surround Sound. I was blown away walking out of the theater though
yesterday. Gonna go see a repeat showing for the first time in years.
 
Solo said:
Should be fun to see Monday's numbers, which will be the jumping off point for predicting the rest of Avatar's run.
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Yup, many a prediction will be revised in a few hours, one way or the other. Personally, anything over $7m and that boat is sinking. Again.
 
I was right about my 9% prediction.
Avatar is doing ridiculous numbers and it will not stop.
I'm getting at 17 million.
Crazy fo sho, but you never know.
 
Jibril said:
I was right about my 9% prediction.
Avatar is doing ridiculous numbers and it will not stop.
I'm getting at 17 million.
Crazy fo sho, but you never know.
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I don't think there are enough showings during the week for that figure, though the 3D prices and IMAX will pad the fall a bit. For perspective, TDK did $6.3m, $5.7m and $5.1m on the Monday-Wednesday at this point in its run - during the summer. If Avatar tracks ahead of that when most schools are in session, the weekend is going to be bananas again.
 
Jibril said:
I was right about my 9% prediction.
Avatar is doing ridiculous numbers and it will not stop.
I'm getting at 17 million.
Crazy fo sho, but you never know.
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Technically I suppose anything is possible, but you do realize that Avatar made around $17 million on Sunday, right? Except during the holidays or opening days, movies do not make nearly as much on weekdays as they do on weekends. The holidays are over and Avatar is three weeks into its run; a 50% drop from Sunday to Monday would be astounding. No drop at all would not so much be impressive as it would make no sense.
 
Saw this yesterday. Saw one preview and knew how the story was going to play out. And generally I was right. But, that doesn't mean that I did not enjoy the experience.

Came away impressed by the competence of the film. CG overload and still some good performances from the characters. The look of the film was impressive and this was my first memorable 3d experience since Captain EO. Can't wait to see more films use it, but in a less in your face kind of way. And I think the best aspect of the film was the fact that though the good guys come out ahead it definitely came at a price. That's something not many storytellers are good at these days.

Good film. No complaints. Which is about the highest compliment I can give a film these days.
 
Man, you don't even need to change anything
2q9lac1.jpg

Scary stuff. o_o
 
Vast Inspiration said:
The people that criticize and mock the movie for being too predictable and cliche are the type of people that complain because they knew the Titanic was going to sink at the end.

There will obviously be a showdown between the human and the Na'vi.
Jake is obviously alive because he's narrating the story.
Jake will obviously change allegiances as he finds out more about the Na'vi.
Jake and Neytiri are obviously going to hook up.

Don't act like some sort of smug idiot because "you figured it out" and it was all predictable. NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK! He's not making a mystery. The type of story that James Cameron is presenting does not try to be too complex or riddled with mysteries. It is straightforward.

The true testament of the story is HOW those plot points (which we know are obviously going to happen) develop, and the impact it has on the audience.

I've watched the movie 3 times now with different people, and each time everyone seems to love the way the movie progresses; the romance, the battle, the redemption. These are all obvious plot points, but its HOW they're done that makes the movie fantastic.
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There's nothing wrong with having a simplistic film, but when you have a plot as straightforward as Avatar you enter into the domain of what should be a children's film because intelligent adults can only stomach eye-candy for so long. The problem is that there's too much "adult" content in this film to make it an effective children's film. So purely on the mechanics of the plot it fails because it's neither compelling enough for intelligent adults nor appropriate for children. Now the substance of the plot is another matter, and IMO a more important criticism, but I think this column says it all.
 
genjiZERO said:
There's nothing wrong with having a simplistic film, but when you have a plot as straightforward as Avatar you enter into the domain of what should be a children's film because intelligent adults can only stomach eye-candy for so long. The problem is that there's too much "adult" content in this film to make it an effective children's film. So purely on the mechanics of the plot it fails because it's neither compelling enough for intelligent adults nor appropriate for children. Now the substance of the plot is another matter, and IMO a more important criticism, but I think this column says it all.
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Haha, dude.

Who's the moron, the adult who enjoys Avatar (a movie inspired by Star Wars) or the person who expects it be something more? It's been rehashed 100 times in this thread, but the storyline in Avatar is no different (more or less) than what you would find in any epic science fiction movie (be it an adaptation of a book or whatever). Granted a select few have done very well, but Avatar is not an example of a bad one.

Only an idiot walks into Wendy's and expects a steak.

Also, what exactly is this overabundance of "adult" content you speak of? Why would this movie be too harsh or complicated for a 12 or 13 year old boy?
 
ToxicAdam said:
meh, the Navis don't have striping that simple. A better shop would have had more convoluted striping pattern.
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Blame the scientists, she actually was one of the first avatars from the experiments! (Look at her "this is great" expression!)
 
genjiZERO said:
So purely on the mechanics of the plot it fails because it's neither compelling enough for intelligent adults nor appropriate for children. Now the substance of the plot is another matter, and IMO a more important criticism, but I think this column says it all.
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That column sucks.

I love how every discussion of the film's alleged race issues completely ignores the fact that Cameron effectively erased race in the creation of his film.
 
Scarecrow said:
I've got to stop venturing into this thread. My attitude towards Avatar has changed from kinda liking it but being a little dissapointed (first viewing), to thinking it was pretty good (second viewing), to becomming increasingly annoyed by it.

I hate this. I feel like I'm becomming one of those snobby movie critics that adore Oscar bait and fawn over arthouse projects. I generally enjoy most anything I see, from some of the neatest stuff this year (Basterds, Zombieland, etc) to what lots of others consider complete drek (Wolverine, Transformers 2).

But, it's baffeling to me how some consider this to be a good or well told story. I mean, got-damn, it was almost literally Fern Gulley with space marines. And there's just too much exposition, some of the laziest storytelling besides pre-movie scrolling text.
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Has it ever occurred to you that some people actually never seen Fern Gulley to begin with?
 
I saw it last night in 3D and it was amazing. This was my first 3D film and I was shocked how great it looked. The thing that stuck to me through the film more than the awesome mo-cap and CGI was the pacing, I never felt it was a drag at all. I will be seeing again on a real IMAX screen and maybe again after that.

And the Tsu'wtfever Navi who landed on the shuttle which carried the explosives sure did fuck some shit up before he at it
 
Count Dookkake said:
That column sucks.

I love how every discussion of the film's alleged race issues completely ignores the fact that Cameron effectively erased race in the creation of his film.
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I was talking to a guy who said that for him, the similarities between the Na'vi and Native Americans/Africans are too striking to be innocuous and that for that reason (among others), he found the movie to be offensive.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I was talking to a guy who said that for him, the similarities between the Na'vi and Native Americans/Africans are too striking to be innocuous and that for that reason (among others), he found the movie to be offensive.
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Not sure why a cultural shout-out is offensive.

Regardless, I was more talking about how Cameron made the biggest-budgeted movie about interracial romance and hid it under CG. Pretty neat trick, IMO.
 
Vast Inspiration said:
Don't act like some sort of smug idiot because "you figured it out" and it was all predictable. NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK! He's not making a mystery. The type of story that James Cameron is presenting does not try to be too complex or riddled with mysteries. It is straightforward.

The true testament of the story is HOW those plot points (which we know are obviously going to happen) develop, and the impact it has on the audience.
Click to expand...

Having a simple and unoriginal story is not really a problem if you can support it with excellent performances, engaging characters, good writing, etc. The problem is that the performances are average, the cast is mostly flat stock characters with a laughable cartoon villain, and the writing is plain. The story is supported mostly by special effects, which doesn't entirely cut the mustard for some people.


mrklaw said:
not only that, but the constant whining of John Connor grates, and the 'you can't kill people' feels like a blatantly cheap mechanic to get a lower rating.
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An R was not a big deal in 1992.....I seriously doubt that Cameron gave a shit about the Terminator 2 rating. If he did he probably wouldn't have the T-1000 jamming his knife arm through people's throats.
 
border said:
Having a simple and unoriginal story is not really a problem if you can support it with excellent performances, engaging characters, good writing, etc. The problem is that the performances are average, the cast is mostly flat stock characters with a laughable cartoon villain, and the writing is plain. The story is supported mostly by special effects, which doesn't entirely cut the mustard for some people.
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Of course this is all your opinion. Many people here and mainstream seem to think the performances were good with a good cast.

And basically you're saying this movie is only good due to the special effects which is stupid as hell. Sometimes things are opinions and sometimes people are just wrong. In this case my man you are wrong.
 
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Everyone has seen Ferngully if only to to hear the audible orgasm that is Christian Slater's voice.
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I thought he was the actor that did the bat's voice (and the genie in Aladdin!); it's not him :\
 
There is nothing wrong with what border says. If you can not connect with the people on screen, there is a good chance you won't connect with the movie.

I left the theatre not really feeling anything for the main character. If they made Avatar 2 without Jake Sully, would anyone complain? The real star of the movie was Pandora and the setting Cameron creates.
 
mckmas8808 said:
And basically you're saying this movie is only good due to the special effects which is stupid as hell.
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I'm saying it's an average story elevated by special effects, art design, and action setpieces.

The acting is okay, but really.......the lead can't even keep his accent straight. Everyone else besides Neytiri seems to be phoning it in.
 
gdt5016 said:
Jake was awesome. I'd be very disappointed if he isn't in Avatar2.
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Jake was probably the worst part of this awesome movie. He's an obnoxious moron. I cringed so hard when he refused to take a few tests when he was just transferred to his avatar, destroyed some state of the art equipment and then took off.
 
Stridone said:
Jake was probably the worst part of this awesome movie. He's an obnoxious moron. I cringed so hard when he refused to take a few tests when he was just transferred to his avatar, destroyed some state of the art equipment and then took off.
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If you were paralyzed from the waist down and could finally walk, wouldn't you be anxious to stand up?

It's also common that most people who are unable to walk due to disability have frequent dreams of running. So, you'd think he'd want to get out and do just that, right?
 
Stridone said:
Jake was probably the worst part of this awesome movie. He's an obnoxious moron. I cringed so hard when he refused to take a few tests when he was just transferred to his avatar, destroyed some state of the art equipment and then took off.
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He wanted to, you know, use his legs. Add to that the fact that he's never been in an Avatar before, and he's not a scientist. I imagine if I was in the same position, I'd do the same. I'd want to use my legs, which he hasn't been able to use for years.
 
LeMaximilian said:
If you were paralyzed from the waist down and could finally walk, wouldn't you be anxious to stand up?
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Of course, but if I had waited for such a long while I think I could wait one minute longer for a few tests...
 
Stridone said:
Of course, but if I had waited for such a long while I think I could wait one minute longer for a few tests...
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I don't think so. I had a cast on for months, when it finally came off I literally ran around the block. Not being able to move is a terrible thing.
 
gdt5016 said:
He wanted to, you know, use his legs. Add to that the fact that he's never been in an Avatar before, and he's not a scientist. I imagine if I was in the same position, I'd do the same. I'd want to use my legs, which he hasn't been able to use for years.
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Not only that but he's in a freaking body that isn't his own. The weight of that hitting you would be overwhelming. I would think all he wanted to do was see how this whole thing worked...like a baby.

I mean, imagine if Jake opened his pod and saw himself laying there.
 
Watched in IMax London on Saturday gone past - was well worth the wait. I have not watched a film that had such a solid feel to the world and the characters. Yes, it was predictable - yes, there was 5 mins that I really didn't enjoy - but overall this film really was quite unique, and the directing was superb.

As for the CGI/3D effects - in motion it is pretty much flawless. At no point did I feel any of it was less than outstanding. The real problem is that the 3D tech used is still not quite there - the technology really needs a higher frame rate, as the stuttering really did ruin a key scene for me. But it really did help immerse me into the film - for the first time 3D did not feel like a gimmick.

This has been a great year for Sci-fi - all 3 big releases (D9, ST and now Avatar) have been excellent.
 
Stridone said:
Jake was probably the worst part of this awesome movie. He's an obnoxious moron. I cringed so hard when he refused to take a few tests when he was just transferred to his avatar, destroyed some state of the art equipment and then took off.
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Sigourney Weaver was the worst part of the movie.
 
I loved Jake in the movie. Add me firmly in the camp of people that would be sorely disappointed if he didn't come back for the sequel.

You should read Harry Knowles review of Avatar on AICN Stridone. It might help put things in perspective for you.

Blader5489 said:
Sigourney Weaver was the worst part of the movie.
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I was about to go on and on about how wrong you are but who am I kidding I can't disagree with anyone that has your avatar.
 
Jake wiggling his feet followed by shots of him stepping on the ground. It was all very well done. I think this scene actually means a whole lot more the more times you've seen the movie. I know I got something different out of it every time.
 
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