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[JimiNutz]

To those that have seen the movie I pose the question:

Without the awesome visuals, what's left? Is it still a great movie?

I'm no longer hyped for this movie at all. It's refreshing actually, and I'm sure it will do wonders for my viewing of the movie on the weekend.

In my opinion, no.
Without the technology, and without Cameron directing, this movie would be very mediocre, if not poor.

The effects, imaginative designs, and fantastic imagery from Cameron, are the only thing that keeps it afloat.

Going in with no hype at all is wise. That's how I was going in, I just wanted to see pretty pictures, until a few days ago when I read all the dazzling reviews that claimed that the film was a masterpiece.
Stupid critics spoiled my fun again :lol
I suppose it's my fault for buying into the hype at the last minute.

So Avatar is basically Jurassic Park for the new generation? Visually stunning with okay story and characters?

I would argue that Jurassic Parks story is significantly more interesting, and it’s characters more fleshed out. On the flip side, Avatars effects are obviously significantly better (even in relative terms), and Cameron directs his action even better than Spielberg.

But yes, if I were 12 years old again I think I would have enjoyed the film significantly more than I did.

Hype kills, man. I dont care how good a movie ends up being, if you obsessively follow it for years before its release, the final product is always a let down.

This is what I desperately miss about the pre-internet days. You would go see a movie, and that would be it. You would either hate it or be blown away. Nowadays, there are spoilers, script leaks, screeners, set reports, far too many fucking trailers and commercials, etc. I often feel like Ive seen a movie before I actually do. Even worse, I often feel like I know how good/bad the movie should be before I see it. That shit is fucked up.

Comments like these have been made a thousand times before, but this in particular was true for Avatar.
In some ways what you're seeing is fresh and inventive (the effects), but in the most important aspect (storyline and character) I had seen it multiple times before. Not only had I seen it all before, but I had seen it done significantly better.

 

[StuBurns]

Fortunately, film is a visual medium.

Exactly. If it were a play, on a barren stage, I wouldn't watch it for however long it is, but it's not.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

1 million down 386 million to go:lol

James Cameron’s 3D epic Avatar (pictured) has grossed a $1m in advance ticket sales through London’s British Film Institute IMAX cinema alone. It comes ahead of the film’s release tomorrow (December 17).

At midday today (December 16), the cinema had sold 47,487 tickets for screenings which, according to Twentieth Century Fox, is more advance tickets than any other outlet in the world across all formats – 2D, 3D Digital and IMAX 3D. The cinema is staying open 24 hours a day for the four days to cope with demand, with screenings taken place at 12.20am and 3.40am.

Avatar has beaten the cinema’s previous advance sales record of 37,929 for The Dark Knight in July 2008.

http://www.screendaily.com/news/distribution/uk-ireland/avatar-beats-dark-knight-in-advances-for-bfis-imax/5009135.article

 

[Justinian]

Exactly. If it were a play, on a barren stage, I wouldn't watch it for however long it is, but it's not.

Ok I didn't mean literally, I'm just saying if the visuals weren't so dazzling, would the movie still hold up?

I was extremely hyped for this movie because it was James Cameron's newest film. Yea the visuals looked great, but I was hoping for some solid characters and story. With that apparently out the window, my hype balloon just completely deflated.

 

[Keylime]

TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT!

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[StuBurns]

Ok I didn't mean literally, I'm just saying if the visuals weren't so dazzling, would the movie still hold up?

I was extremely hyped for this movie because it was James Cameron's newest film. Yea the visuals looked great, but I was hoping for some solid characters and story. With that apparently out the window, my hype balloon just completely deflated.

It has the traits of all Cameron films, decent plot, mediocre script, good acting, beautifully shot and paced, visually spectacular. Basically, if you like Cameron's films, I think you'd like this.

 

[Alucard]

I'm going to see it, but I need characters and a story I care about to really invest myself in a film. It sounds like Avatar only does an adequate job of that by the reviews here. I mean, yay for technical marvels and beautiful worlds, but those things don't make me want to re-watch a movie in the end. They just feel hollow afterwards.

 

[StuBurns]

I'm going to see it, but I need characters and a story I care about to really invest myself in a film. It sounds like Avatar only does an adequate job of that by the reviews here. I mean, yay for technical marvels and beautiful worlds, but those things don't make me want to re-watch a movie in the end. They just feel hollow afterwards.

Have you seen Baraka? I can watch that film endlessly. Avatar is kind like the Pandora version of Baraka, with a plot thrown in.

In fact, there is a scene that is identical to Baraka, I'd put money on that being where Cameron got it from.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

It isn't completely devoid of likable characters, just there are a lot of underdeveloped ones.

Sigourney's character was really really great. She was my favourite character in the whole film and I was smiling a lot when introduced to her.

 

[Solo]

I cannot wait for noon on Saturday, when the domestic estimates for Friday night hit. Its going to be such a shitstorm one way or the other :lol Could be the most entertaining day at GAF in 2009.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Oh, by the way. I don't know how it is in other territories, but they're airing behind the scenes making of features and interviews with cast and crew as COMMERCIALS BETWEEN TV SHOWS here. :lol

I also love that the Na'vi featurette (very spoilerish) has Stan Winston talking about the Na'vi the entire time. His last project.

 

[Keylime]

Oh, by the way. I don't know how it is in other territories, but they're airing behind the scenes making of features and interviews with cast and crew as COMMERCIALS BETWEEN TV SHOWS here. :lol

Last night during the "So You Think You Can Dance" finale, they had Leona Lewis sing the GG nominated title song (with new footage showing behind her), and had Sigourney and Zoe talking to each other about the film during commercial breaks.

Pretty madness.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I cannot wait for noon on Saturday, when the domestic estimates for Friday night hit. Its going to be such a shitstorm one way or the other :lol Could be the most entertaining day at GAF in 2009.

Not that it means that much since its only one theatre. But London IMAX has apparently sold more pre-sale tickets than TDK and has already made over a mil.

 

[hamchan]

I'm going to see it, but I need characters and a story I care about to really invest myself in a film. It sounds like Avatar only does an adequate job of that by the reviews here. I mean, yay for technical marvels and beautiful worlds, but those things don't make me want to re-watch a movie in the end. They just feel hollow afterwards.

I'd say don't go in with a negative attitude, maybe you'll enjoy the movie more.

 

[Max@GC]

Saw Avatar yesterday and got what I expected - a visually stunning masterpiece with a good story/positive message that fits perfectly in our time and a smooth narrative flow with breathless attention - I think the last movie that made my jaw drop like that was Lord of Rings. Given that it was the first big movie in 3D I´m ok with the minor flaws it had imo. Like the characters and their motivations which weren´t worked out that good...and some dumb dialogues of course. But maybe the movie hadn´t worked that way if the characters were a bit more complex...I don´t know. If I would have to rate it I´d give it a 9 out of 10. A brilliant piece of film history that everyone should see.

I think I´ll watch Avatar a second time in the next week - on weed.

 

[ShinAmano]

Going on Sunday at 7 with a large group for the 3D showing...can't wait...almost as excited as I was to see T2 in the theater.

 

[shintoki]

About 24 hours for me!

 

[Zeliard]

Have you seen Baraka? I can watch that film endlessly. Avatar is kind like the Pandora version of Baraka, with a plot thrown in.

In fact, there is a scene that is identical to Baraka, I'd put money on that being where Cameron got it from.

This is exactly what I've been expecting from the movie, especially ever since I heard someone described Cameron's approach to Pandora as that of an explorer or anthropologist.

 

[Max@GC]

Have you seen Baraka? I can watch that film endlessly. Avatar is kind like the Pandora version of Baraka, with a plot thrown in.

In fact, there is a scene that is identical to Baraka, I'd put money on that being where Cameron got it from.

I second that! I´ve also seen some similarities to Ghost Dog (there is a scene with ghost dog trying to kill some mafia guys with a sniper rifle but a bird lands on his rifle blocking his visor. He looks at the bird, ponders a bit and leaves the scene to kill them close combat style - ok Neytiri didn´t kill Jake but I think you get what I mean).

 

[Dipswitch]

Ok - I need to know if the 3d version is a must see or not. They're showing it in several screens at the local theatre. However, we typically watch movies in the 'Lux level' screening rooms, where the seats are much more comfortable and you can order booze and food right from your seats (Trust me - you'll never go back after watching a movie that way). It's being shown in digital projection on that screen.

The other screen has it in Real 3D, but that's regular seating. Given that my wife is heavily pregnant, the 3d would have to be pretty fucking magnificent for us to give up the other option.

So I'm a bit torn. Is the 3d stuff fantastic or just meh?

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Ok - I need to know if the 3d version is a must see or not. They're showing it in several screens at the local theatre. However, we typically watch movies in the 'Lux level' screening rooms, where the seats are much more comfortable and you can order booze and food right from your seats (Trust me - you'll never go back after watching a movie that way). It's being shown in digital projection on that screen.

The other screen has it in Real 3D, but that's regular seating. Given that my wife is heavily pregnant, the 3d would have to be pretty fucking magnificent for us to give up the other option.

Watch in 3D. Her water will break and you can name your son AVATAR.

Seriously though, if you ever see any movie in 3D ever, make it this one. The difference between 2D and 3D is night and day on a film like this. It is brilliantly done and involves you so much more in the film in such a natural way.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

This is exactly what I've been expecting from the movie, especially ever since I heard someone described Cameron's approach to Pandora as that of an explorer or anthropologist.

Yeah I said that. He's thinking about guiding his audience through the world more than his characters.

Just reading back over the full treatment now, it is ridiculous how much was cut out and changed from the original treatment. But it would have had to have been at least an hour longer. There is so much more Cameron had for this film in terms of the plot.

The changes show he basically streamlined the entire story down to its core elements, like he had to pick and choose which scenes would gel and tell a coherent story.

 

[Max@GC]

Ok - I need to know if the 3d version is a must see or not. They're showing it in several screens at the local theatre. However, we typically watch movies in the 'Lux level' screening rooms, where the seats are much more comfortable and you can order booze and food right from your seats (Trust me - you'll never go back after watching a movie that way). It's being shown in digital projection on that screen.

The other screen has it in Real 3D, but that's regular seating. Given that my wife is heavily pregnant, the 3d would have to be pretty fucking magnificent for us to give up the other option.

So I'm a bit torn. Is the 3d stuff fantastic or just meh?

Fantastic.

 

[rhino4evr]

Ok - I need to know if the 3d version is a must see or not. They're showing it in several screens at the local theatre. However, we typically watch movies in the 'Lux level' screening rooms, where the seats are much more comfortable and you can order booze and food right from your seats (Trust me - you'll never go back after watching a movie that way). It's being shown in digital projection on that screen.

The other screen has it in Real 3D, but that's regular seating. Given that my wife is heavily pregnant, the 3d would have to be pretty fucking magnificent for us to give up the other option.

So I'm a bit torn. Is the 3d stuff fantastic or just meh?

LOL..I have the SAME exact predicament...I even have gift certs for the "Premium seats" but its not in 3D..and my wife is all pissed because she is so used to going ot the Luxury level. She is due in FEb.

Thankfully the Imax has nicer seats then the regular theater.

 

[Dipswitch]

Fantastic.

Balls. 3D it is then I guess! Time to commence the delicate negotiations with the missus.....

 

[Dipswitch]

LOL..I have the SAME exact predicament...I even have gift certs for the "Premium seats" but its not in 3D..and my wife is all pissed because she is so used to going ot the Luxury level. She is due in FEb.

Thankfully the Imax has nicer seats then the regular theater.

Heh. That's uncanny - the wife is also due in Feb! Oh well, we'll make it work somehow. Hell, if I have to see it once normally and once in 3D I may end up doing that.

 

[Zeliard]

Yeah I said that. He's thinking about guiding his audience through the world more than his characters.

Well I was more talking about a review I'd read several days ago, where they specifically likened Pandora's depiction to anthropology/ecology. Did Cameron convey Pandora in a similar style to what you'd find in a nature documentary?

 

[StuBurns]

Well I was more talking about a review I'd read several days ago, where they specifically likened Pandora's depiction to anthropology/ecology. Did Cameron convey Pandora in a similar style to what you'd find in a nature documentary?

In a way, but it's thru the eyes of Jake. He is untrained on the world, unlike everyone else, so you experience things as he does. It's more a kin to a child walking thru a zoo in a way. It's not an adult study, so much as a child's first experience.

 

[Zeliard]

In a way, but it's thru the eyes of Jake. He is untrained on the world, unlike everyone else, so you experience things as he does. It's more a kin to a child walking thru a zoo in a way. It's not an adult study, so much as a child's first experience.

Well it is a depiction of an alien planet, with the audience vicariously experiencing it through Jake, as he's also experiencing it through some form of virtual reality. Shit's pretty meta.

 

[JimiNutz]

Yeah I said that. He's thinking about guiding his audience through the world more than his characters.

Just reading back over the full treatment now, it is ridiculous how much was cut out and changed from the original treatment. But it would have had to have been at least an hour longer. There is so much more Cameron had for this film in terms of the plot.

The changes show he basically streamlined the entire story down to its core elements, like he had to pick and choose which scenes would gel and tell a coherent story.

That's a shame.
I wasn't expecting a masterful story but just a little more character development, and a little more complexity in the storyline department, would have taken the movie from good to brilliant.
I also forgot to mention, although I’m sure others have already, that the film did zip along - if anything it felt slightly rushed. I would have certainly favoured another hour.

Oh well, I'm just glad to have Jim back and I really hope the movie does well (I'm certainly doing my part seeing it 3 times and then maybe even once more on IMAX).
I really hope he does Battle Angel next, but even if he doesn't, I just hope he stays active and continues to make enjoyable films (just don't write them next time!)

 

[Expendable.]

Avatar is finally a trending topic: http://twitter.com/#search?q=Avatar

Can't wait to see this again on Saturday..in IMAX!

 

[Synth_floyd]

I'm going to see it, but I need characters and a story I care about to really invest myself in a film. It sounds like Avatar only does an adequate job of that by the reviews here. I mean, yay for technical marvels and beautiful worlds, but those things don't make me want to re-watch a movie in the end. They just feel hollow afterwards.

Thanks Mr. movie snob. Why not just relax and enjoy the movie?

 

[adelante]

Caught the movie last night...my gawd Avatar was, quite simply, breathtaking. Extraordinary CGI was the star of the show here. Pandora was a world so beautifully realized that I left the cinema imbued with a sense that the freaking moon and its well-crafted ecology actually does exist (I want to go to there ). It's really the subtle details that made my jaw dropped.

Spoiler

Sam dipping a branch into flammable tree gum to make a torch, the fabric of the patient gown worn by Sam's Avatar, the warpaint susbtance being smeared across his avatar's face, the smoke plumes during a highly explosive scene, Na'vis in physical contact with humans.

As those scenes play out, I found myself thinking of possible practical effects they might've employed to achieve such seamless realism but we all know its purely voodoo greenscreen 3D magix at work here. Man, those years of post-production have really paid off onscreen (and holy crap at the list of CG studios in the credits!!).

So while the story itself was predictable, its presentation was near flawless. Watching the movie in 3D was, for the most part, a rewarding experience (the scene of people floating out of their cryo capsules gave an amazing sense of depth). The one particular bit that pulled me out of the immersion was the Thanator chase; I had trouble making out the individual cuts probably due to the slight ghosting I experienced (I chalked it up to me watching the movie with a Dolby3D setup as opposed to RealD *shrugs*). Personally, 3D remains a gimmick but James Cameron has managed to convince me that his tech will not replace, but exist comfortably alongside conventional 2D viewing as a more engaging alternative.

Horner's score was a bit of a mixed bag. I loved the rich traditional influences that was reminiscent of Disney's animated epics. But then there were those sporadic but brief trumpet/trombone cues that kept reminding me of Enemy at the Gates (looked him up on Wiki when I got back home and true enough, he was the composer for that film :X )

A movie worth experiencing again, imho

 

[furrygiblets]

I was really involved in the story, true the visuals helped but i thought it was great. The time just flew by and i wanted fucking more!

 

[rhino4evr]

Caught the movie last night...my gawd Avatar was, quite simply, breathtaking. Extraordinary CGI was the star of the show here. Pandora was a world so beautifully realized that I left the cinema imbued with a sense that the freaking moon and its well-crafted ecology actually does exist (I want to go to there ). It's really the subtle details that made my jaw dropped. Sam dipping a branch into flammable tree gum to make a torch, the fabric of the patient gown worn by Sam's Avatar, the warpaint susbtance being smeared across his avatar's face, the smoke plumes during a highly explosive scene, Na'vis in physical contact with humans. As those scenes play out, I found myself thinking of possible practical effects they might've employed to achieve such seamless realism but we all know its purely voodoo greenscreen 3D magix at work here. Man, those years of post-production have really paid off onscreen (and holy crap at the list of CG studios in the credits!!).

So while the story itself was predictable, its presentation was near flawless. Watching the movie in 3D was, for the most part, a rewarding experience (the scene of people floating out of their cryo capsules gave an amazing sense of depth). The one particular bit that pulled me out of the immersion was the Thanator chase; I had trouble making out the individual cuts probably due to the slight ghosting I experienced (I chalked it up to me watching the movie with a Dolby3D setup as opposed to RealD *shrugs*). Personally, 3D remains a gimmick but James Cameron has managed to convince me that his tech will not replace, but exist comfortably alongside conventional 2D viewing as a more engaging alternative.

Horner's score was a bit of a mixed bag. I loved the rich traditional influences that was reminiscent of Disney's animated epics. But then there were those sporadic but brief trumpet/trombone cues that kept reminding me of Enemy at the Gates (looked him up on Wiki when I got back home and true enough, he was the composer for that film :X )

A movie worth experiencing again, imho

thats nice and all but your Gaf Avatar is the funniest of all time.

 

[adelante]

I was really involved in the story, true the visuals helped but i thought it was great. The time just flew by and i wanted fucking more!

Haha the only time I looked at my watch was during the ending scene. It's a good thing the movie actually didn't feel that long

thats nice and all but your Gaf Avatar is the funniest of all time.

haha why....thank u

 

[ToxicAdam]

Thanks Mr. movie snob. Why not just relax and enjoy the movie?

I don't think it's a petty concern. A movie is an investment of time and money. If it is unable to move you (through the story or the characters) then it can be viewed as a waste of time.

Look at the Star Wars prequels. What was the biggest gripe of those movies? The characters, the dialog and the acting. That was essentially a kids action movie and it gets bagged on all the time.


Personally, my only expectation is for the visual spectacle. That's all I care about going into this movie.

 

[furrygiblets]

Haha the only time I looked at my watch was during the ending scene. It's a good thing the movie actually didn't feel that long

I held off the toilet for 2 hours cause i didn't want t miss a second lol.

 

[Expendable.]

'Avatar' Now 78% Of Online Tickets Sales http://bit.ly/8Dyb9d

 

[y2dvd]

A little over 24 hours for me. I am going to get in line two hours ahead of time. I just fear I'm overhyping myself.

 

[Jon]

Everyday I see this thread with a lower and lower percentage on the title! I really hope I have time to see the movie this weekend before I am no longer able to avoid the spoilers. I wonder how many people will write reviews that are mediocre just to get hits on their website?

 

[Joel Was Right]

I'm seeing it in a few hours time. Two tickets.

 

[brandonh83]

So Avatar is basically Jurassic Park for the new generation? Visually stunning with okay story and characters?

If Avatar is this generation's Jurassic Park, it'll be my favorite movie this decade.

 

[Keylime]

Everyday I see this thread with a lower and lower percentage on the title! I really hope I have time to see the movie this weekend before I am no longer able to avoid the spoilers. I wonder how many people will write reviews that are mediocre just to get hits on their website?

I really think the days of "classic" things are dead.

We have too many people giving their opinions on too many different things with too many motivations to be contrarian that I don't think we'll ever have anything that is universally loved.

We won't have any more Beatles.
We'll never have another Michael Jackson.
We won't love anything as much as Terminator 2.
Nothing will be as pure as the original Disney films.

Maybe I'm just becoming jaded with my overexposure to all of these things by being on the internet a ton, but I really don't think there's anything these days that really become iconic anymore.

 

[furrygiblets]

A little over 24 hours for me. I am going to get in line two hours ahead of time. I just fear I'm overhyping myself.

That was my fear aswell but for me it delivered!

 

[Keylime]

That was my fear aswell but for me it delivered!

I'm going in with reasonable expectations and I'm going in treating it like an experience and not a story.

My friend is already hinting that he's going to be an ass about ragging on the movie so I'm SO enjoying the post-movie discussion with him... :lol

 

[ToxicAdam]

I'm worried about all these people saying they are going to wait in line. I'm going to a friday night showing at 9pm. I should be able to show up 45 minutes early and still get a good seat, no?

The only movie I ever waited in line for was TPM. But that was only 15 minutes.

 

[JimiNutz]

I really think the days of "classic" things are dead.

We have too many people giving their opinions on too many different things with too many motivations to be contrarian that I don't think we'll ever have anything that is universally loved.

We won't have any more Beatles.
We'll never have another Michael Jackson.
We won't love anything as much as Terminator 2.
Nothing will be as pure as the original Disney films.

Maybe I'm just becoming jaded with my overexposure to all of these things by being on the internet a ton, but I really don't think there's anything these days that really become iconic anymore.

I was just about to say that I think Pixar movies are about the only thing that are universally loved these days.

I don't think I’ve never met anyone that doesn’t love Pixar films :lol

 

[Keylime]

I'm worried about all these people saying they are going to wait in line. I'm going to a friday night showing at 9pm. I should be able to show up 45 minutes early and still get a good seat, no?

The only movie I ever waited in line for was TPM. But that was only 15 minutes.

I got in line for TDK 3 hours early on opening day and was probably the 20th person in line.

Generally I get to big movies about an hour early. I plan on getting to Avatar tonight 2 hours early.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm going to a 10:45 PM showing Friday night. Very curious to see how crowded it'll be.