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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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eh? I thought it was clear that the unobtainium was just some expensive mineral and therefore the only reason they were there was because they were greedy capitalist bastards.
The fact they told you how much it costs pointed to that, along with the entire operation being handled by a private corporation (they point out a couple of times that they aren't 'marines', they're soliders for hire)
Plus the default position in situations like this is always 'guys with guns=bad', 'tree hugging guys with bows and arrows communing with nature=good'
the main problem I had with 'the corporation' was the guy supposely leading the expedition. What was he - 12? just didn't pull off the slimy corporate guy willing to commit genocide for the shareholders. Burke was much better in that regard
The fact they told you how much it costs pointed to that, along with the entire operation being handled by a private corporation (they point out a couple of times that they aren't 'marines', they're soliders for hire)
Plus the default position in situations like this is always 'guys with guns=bad', 'tree hugging guys with bows and arrows communing with nature=good'
the main problem I had with 'the corporation' was the guy supposely leading the expedition. What was he - 12? just didn't pull off the slimy corporate guy willing to commit genocide for the shareholders. Burke was much better in that regard
Just got back.
Wow. The last time I walked out a theater and was pissed off I was on Earth was after Return of the King (2004). I do agree that the line should have been "the largest deposit on the planet" instead of within 200 klicks, but I barely even gave it a second thought.
Fucking amazing.
Wow. The last time I walked out a theater and was pissed off I was on Earth was after Return of the King (2004). I do agree that the line should have been "the largest deposit on the planet" instead of within 200 klicks, but I barely even gave it a second thought.
Fucking amazing.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Michael Biehn should have played Jake Sully.
I said if it were a play on a barren stage I wouldn't watch it yeah. That's true. But the story is definitely 'serviceable', and as a film, I think it was extraordinary. I didn't write my impressions after I got back because I don't like to spurge initial impressions, they too often fade and change the morning after, so I wanted to wait, and then never got around to it. But I guess I should say, I thought it was mind blowing, I'm going to see it again at the LieMAX tomorrow, and at a RealD screen next week before going back to London to see it at the BFI. It's awesome.Solo said:
legend166 said:
They mentioned a low quarterly report would look worse than thousands of dead innocent civilians. Sounds like good ole fashioned greed to me.
I just saw it, and while I enjoyed it on the whole, I thought the disconnect between the CG world and the real one were way too prominent. Cameron waited way too long to have the two sides in the same frame together for any prolonged period of time. When they finally do meet up, it was just like "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" or something where it was hard for me to buy in.
That, and the story was SO unoriginal...still, Cameron's a hell of a director, and he hasn't gotten soft over the years--phew. A fun watch, but I don't know how it will stand up to repeated viewings.
And how the hell does Michelle Rodriguez go from just utterly unattractive in some movies to borderline stunning at times in this one? Strangest thing ever.
EDIT: I saw the IMAX version, BTW.
Feep said:
The point of that line was to symbolise the fact that there were other deposits around the area (outside of 200 kilometres), so if they wanted they could go elsewhere. But because the largest was under HomeTree, they didn't care for the Na'vi that lived there, they just wanted the "cheddar". In other words, it emphasised their greed.
Also, lol at the notion that the humans were anything less than corporate money hungry greedy capitalists. I think it was abundantly obvious, and if they'd done any more to showcase it I would have thought Cameron was insulting my intelligence. To add to that, who cares if the human populace was in a dire situation with respects to luxurious uses of energy? We don't need the 99.999% of crap we have, certainly not enough to wipe out entire tribes/civilisations of other people. We could if the situation called for it, just live a little more green.
My sentiments exactly. The whole time I watching Avatar I was wondering if they were gonna reveal any "higher-ups" that funded the whole operation, because Giovanni's character felt more like corporate puppet, which, if you think about it, was also Burke's role in Aliens. Then again Burke was involved in much more than just making executive decisions which helped fleshed out his character.mrklaw said:
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
legend166 said:Yeah, but that doesn't tell me anything. Firstly, it's $20 million in 2154 or whenever the film is set. Inflation
It would have taken 30 seconds of dialogue to explain the reason for this stuff and it would have made a huge difference.
I'm pretty sure Cameron made a point about not explaining its use for Humans because he felt that exploitation of resources through force for any reason is wrong.
People are actually whining because the film didn't lay out the entire history of unobtainium? The scene were Giovanni Ribisi brings it up felt forced enough, launching into a detailed exposition-fest would have been fucking terrible. It's worth a lot, that's all we need to know.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
If you really want to know its use for humans, dig up the original treatment which explains it.
It's a room temperature super-conductor which transmits electricity with zero resistance. It levitates in a magnetic field, much like how many trains these days use the maglev system to glide over tracks.
No. The line was, "The largest for 200 klicks around". Which means, there were other, larger deposits on the planet. I could have bought a "we already set up base here, we don't feel like moving", but they didn't say that. Or maybe their surveying of possible unobtainium veins only spread out 200 klicks from their base. Whatever.nib95 said:
I don't really care about it one way or another. Just a stupid nitpick.
Spire said:
I completely disagree. That stuff is the entire motivation for the humans and is the entire basis for the conflict in the film. And like I said, it would have taken 30 seconds to explain, either way. Have Sigourney Weaver yell at the dude about his greed for some unnecessary mineral used to make the rich, richer or something.
I don't know, if just seems logical to me to explain it. Why do the humans want to get rid of the Na'vi? To get the unobtanium. Why do they want to get the unobtanium? Because it's worth a lot of money. Why is it worth a lot of money? Uhhhhhhhh.
If Cameron is trying to make some grand point about resource explotations being wrong in any situation and deliberately left out its history, I'll guess I just have to concede. I still think it hurts the storytelling, though.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
legend166 said:
Read my 2 previous posts.
DieNgamers
Member
I saw it yesterday!
Because I don't want to overanalyse anything just this: it totally blew all my expectations out of the water! Amazing amazing movie and I can say my expectations were already really high because of all the hype. :lol
I don't think I've felt so emotionally touched by a world on screen before. The theatre was packed and the crowd reaction was really positive overall. Watching that lush world unfold in 3D was a mindblowing experience and it always seemed natural, not forced.
I don't get the story complaints. This is a movie you just have too see as a whole, how can you split it into its parts? I can't do that in this case, fortunately.
For me one of the most emotional moments was
It's just a huge honest tribute to nature and I loved the message behind it. I completely see some people "not getting" the movie at all. I was rooting for the Navi not just because of their fate but because they represented nature and the overlaying philosphy in general.
I could go on and on but the point is: the realization of a fictional world , the CG, (way beyond anything ever achieved), the story and the action came together as a cinematic experience that certainly won't be topped for me and my friends for a while. In fact wie all had the feeling that a new era has begun, it was that much of an impact.
Because I don't want to overanalyse anything just this: it totally blew all my expectations out of the water! Amazing amazing movie and I can say my expectations were already really high because of all the hype. :lol
I don't think I've felt so emotionally touched by a world on screen before. The theatre was packed and the crowd reaction was really positive overall. Watching that lush world unfold in 3D was a mindblowing experience and it always seemed natural, not forced.
I don't get the story complaints. This is a movie you just have too see as a whole, how can you split it into its parts? I can't do that in this case, fortunately.
For me one of the most emotional moments was
the huge tree falling. That scene had everything: terror, sadness, awe and of course it looked damn spectacular. 
I also got shivers down my spine when the Navi made their rituals to rescue Sigourney, that was awesome!
I also got shivers down my spine when the Navi made their rituals to rescue Sigourney, that was awesome!I could go on and on but the point is: the realization of a fictional world , the CG, (way beyond anything ever achieved), the story and the action came together as a cinematic experience that certainly won't be topped for me and my friends for a while. In fact wie all had the feeling that a new era has begun, it was that much of an impact.
Scullibundo said:
I'm not sure of your point? That I should go back and read the original draft to get vital information they decided to leave out of the film?
It's like that dude said in the 70 minute Phantom Menance review, if it's not in the film itself, I don't really care.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
legend166 said:
I was just giving you the info you wanted. Telling you what it said in the script - giving you the reason for their pillaging.
You're saying he didn't explain what it was for because he felt the exploitation of resources through force for any reason is wrong.?Scullibundo said:
Then why did he write and direct a movie showing it being done loud and clear?
Reading the line that I assume is from the scriptment you posted doesn't express exploitation of resources through force. Everything else in the film does...
Anyways, I doubt it is something I'll care about. Haven't watched it yet.
legend166 said:
The humans motivation is made clear, it's greed. Explaining the exact details of what unobtainium is used for has no bearing on the motivation of the humans in this story. They don't care what it's used for, they only care that they can sell it for a lot.
Karma Kramer
Banned
My hype is out of control at the moment! 12 Hours!
legend166 said:
Explaining what unobtainium does wouldn't make them any less "cartoonish". What makes them "cartoonish" is their simple motivation, explaining the trivial details of unobtainium would not change the fact that the villains are only motivated by greed. You're blaming the wrong element of the storytelling for your problem with the film.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
I want to see the movie again. The only film I did that for was Dark Knight
Eh, I remember caper films White collar TV show, Leverage TV show, tons of other things intelligently explaining why something is important. I find in interesting to learn the important of things within the world personally.Spire said:
And I remember crazed cartoon villains want more and more of stuff and never having an intelligent reason for it.
I can see his point that it has no reason explained and that it'd take a few seconds to do so. And I think saying he's wrong or it doesn't matter at all is pointless argument on your side. You're trying to be right instead of it being your opinion vs his opinion. It's like you can't have a nitpick stand.
I remember nitpicks in the Star Wars thread. Some were valid. And they were lengthy arguments. I left the thread eventually. Guess they had valid points to debate, but it was annoying.
I feel like it's been made lengthy on your part. Feel like it's needless debate on your part.
Mr. Pointy
Member
I thought Avatar was pretty good. I went into it expecting Pocahontas with blue furries, and I was thoroughly impressed that it was more than that. And it's gorgeous - a true technical marvel.
However, I will quantify that this movie was certainly The Abyss to whatever Cameron does next, which will be his Terminator 2.
I'm tempted to see it again. If only for the last hour.
However, I will quantify that this movie was certainly The Abyss to whatever Cameron does next, which will be his Terminator 2.
I'm tempted to see it again. If only for the last hour.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Quaritch excels at all sports, but he will always lose in pool.
Definitely one of the top 3 James Cameron villains.
Because he always has more balls than anyone else.
Definitely one of the top 3 James Cameron villains.
J. M. Romeo
Banned
I'll be watching this with the girlfriend tonight. I have absolutely zero expectations from the movie and the plot seems generic as fuck from the only trailer that I've seen. Also, I have a big dislike for CG heavy flicks, prefering usually the old school stuff and pure cinema trickery.
But then again, it's James fucking Cameron. And that man has yet to dissapoint me in a single movie of his. In fact, a few of them are on my top of mind list of favourite films. So I'll walk in with an open mind. Worst case scenario, I see my first 3D film evar!
EDIT:
No shit, really? That's messed up. I live in Spain and we get it in time (despite having shitty movie culture here too).
In fact, don't talk smack about Italia's movie culture! You fuckers gave us Bud Spencer and Terence Hill!
But then again, it's James fucking Cameron. And that man has yet to dissapoint me in a single movie of his. In fact, a few of them are on my top of mind list of favourite films. So I'll walk in with an open mind. Worst case scenario, I see my first 3D film evar!
EDIT:
Mdk7 said:
No shit, really? That's messed up. I live in Spain and we get it in time (despite having shitty movie culture here too).
In fact, don't talk smack about Italia's movie culture! You fuckers gave us Bud Spencer and Terence Hill!
And The Godfather, mostly!
I actually had tickets fo last nights "exclusive preview", but the theater ran into some technical difficulties. First time they're showing a 3D flick, so I guess its understandable. Tonight's the night, 3 hours to go!
Also, is it bad if I got corner seats? I've heard that the centre of the theater is the best point for 3D films?
Also, is it bad if I got corner seats? I've heard that the centre of the theater is the best point for 3D films?
Finished watching it about five hours ago. A few hours from home, soi i'm typing this out on my phone. Thoughts are pretty scattered from lack of sleep.
In one word... awesome. Story was predictable but the ride was so fulfilling. CG was great. At times it was obvious CG, at times it loooked real, at times you could think the characters were wearing makeup or there were some serious animatronics at work. All of the shots i nitpicked in the other thread looked fine in the film. What sold it were the facial animations, along with the voice talent. No matter how obviously CG they were, they were never jarring because of how excellent they conveyed emotion. This was particularly true when shit hits the fan and Jake
At that point i was so sold on Pandora and protecting the Na'vi that it felt like it was my loss as well. It's rare that i connect to a movie like that.
It was the first time i exerienced Real3D. It's usage in Avatar was complimentary, but not revolutionary. It added organic depth to the scenes and the vast majority of times there weren't things coming directly at you, nor did you often feel like there were a number of separate planes. It was handled much more masterfully than the Shrek and Pirhana 3D trailers although in fairness a trailer is meant to grab your attention.
"Unobtanium"? i groaned at that, especially since it came up in a conversation with a friend a week prior.
There are so many scenes that were great but the one thatsticks out in my memory is towards the end, after
A fitting nod to Terminator 2.
i'm nitpicking here, but when Jake gets
said fire didnt behave as i expected it to. Also, am i missing something or was Jake seriously naive to think that
That was the worst twist in the movie as i remember.
Luckily, i was among one of the best audiences ever. There were a couple dozen people in the audience, but no one said a word during the film. Not a single word. i expected a chuckle when Jake taunted the monster with "C'mon, bitch!" or whatever, but nothing. Maybe they were bored stiff, but i loved it. i'm glad my date cancelled because my eyes were glue on the screen.
i really wasn't that sold on the movie from the second trailer, and went in expecting a good action movie with great effects. i wasn't expecting to be drawn to the characters and its world so much. i'll definitely be watching this again in Real3D, and probably early next year at IMAX.
In one word... awesome. Story was predictable but the ride was so fulfilling. CG was great. At times it was obvious CG, at times it loooked real, at times you could think the characters were wearing makeup or there were some serious animatronics at work. All of the shots i nitpicked in the other thread looked fine in the film. What sold it were the facial animations, along with the voice talent. No matter how obviously CG they were, they were never jarring because of how excellent they conveyed emotion. This was particularly true when shit hits the fan and Jake
confesses that he basically had been betraying them. Key'tiri's cries nearly brought me to tears myself. Same with the scenes later on where her mom is crying over the loss of their holy tree.
It was the first time i exerienced Real3D. It's usage in Avatar was complimentary, but not revolutionary. It added organic depth to the scenes and the vast majority of times there weren't things coming directly at you, nor did you often feel like there were a number of separate planes. It was handled much more masterfully than the Shrek and Pirhana 3D trailers although in fairness a trailer is meant to grab your attention.
"Unobtanium"? i groaned at that, especially since it came up in a conversation with a friend a week prior.
There are so many scenes that were great but the one thatsticks out in my memory is towards the end, after
Quaritch's airship crashes, and he's standing in front of the burning wreckage.
i'm nitpicking here, but when Jake gets
lost on Pandora and wields the fire stick
Quaritch wouldn't view his logs?
Luckily, i was among one of the best audiences ever. There were a couple dozen people in the audience, but no one said a word during the film. Not a single word. i expected a chuckle when Jake taunted the monster with "C'mon, bitch!" or whatever, but nothing. Maybe they were bored stiff, but i loved it. i'm glad my date cancelled because my eyes were glue on the screen.
i really wasn't that sold on the movie from the second trailer, and went in expecting a good action movie with great effects. i wasn't expecting to be drawn to the characters and its world so much. i'll definitely be watching this again in Real3D, and probably early next year at IMAX.
aoi tsuki said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium
It's a term engineers have used since the fifties. It's completely appropriate for scenes in the movie.
Expect the rating to drop some more.
Cameron seems to have spent more time developing the tech than he did developing the characters. You just didn't give a shit about anyone.
Visually stunning though.
One little blooper I noticed....
Cameron seems to have spent more time developing the tech than he did developing the characters. You just didn't give a shit about anyone.
Visually stunning though.
One little blooper I noticed....
Why at the end, were the nerd (from dodgeball) and his avatar BOTH together at the same time?
J. M. Romeo
Banned
Mdk7 said:
Heh. I feel you. But it's up to us, the young and enthusiastic, to change that! Become good filmmakers and change the course of destiny!
Hari Seldon
Gold Member
I need Gaf's advice. Should I see this at a regular theater that says it is in 3D, or should I see it in Imax 3D? I dunno what would be best for this type of movie.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Spire said:
I haven't seen the film yet, so I'm not sure how I'll feel about this, but this is the kind of thing that could potentially bother me too. I don't need the entire history of Unobtaium, but a little context of why we are after it would help. And I mean more than just "It's worth X amount of money".
As others have hinted at, it does make a difference if we're simply mining the stuff to make fancy jewelry vs. it's the only material in the universe that can power our hyperdrives.
That said, until I see it in the context of the film, I'm obviously not going to make a stink out of it. It's just the kind of plot point that might annoy me though.
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