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[Rentahamster]

It's also made clear that the Earth is environmentally destroyed and humanity is mining valuable minerals on Pandora because it's stimulating the crashing global economy.

I don't think that was made clear at all because...

The movie could have had a few throwaway lines that indicated humans were desperate and Unobtanium is the only way for them to try and fix their mess.Not just a grab for money.

The movie takes place in 2154, not that far into the future. It's made clear that there's no FTL and it takes 5 years at near-light speed to reach Pandora's star which is either Alpha Centauri or the same distance away as Alpha C.

That wasn't made clear either, as I don't recall them ever mentioning what star system they were going to. Just that it took 5 years.

The sheer desperation of humanity would help bring out people's worse nature, among other things.

I didn't get the impression that humanity is desperate, but whatever.

The way that the movie portrays these things may be more than a little melodramatic and stereotypical, but the basic scenario is not implausible at all.

I still find it to be implausible in the sense that the energy tech required to develop near-light speed space travel would also allow humans to power their machines with non-polluting renewable energy. This would cut out the need for fossil fuels entirely and bring an end to one of the most severe dangers to our environment.

Other sources of pollution like materials manufacturing and garbage disposal would still exist, of course, but again - humans advanced enough for near light speed travel can't develop a cleaner way of producing/mining materials (or even just outsourcing the production and mining to some dead planet or space platform? Besides, zero-g is a good place to produce certain pure crystals that can't be made on earth.) Humans advanced enough for near light travel are not advanced enough for efficient recycling tech? Implausible, I say.

One more thing - okay, these are "Sky People", right? What the hell are sky people doing fighting on the ground? Okay, okay, so the sky people get their asses kicked in the sky as well. Fine. Did the sky people suddenly forget that they're not just sky people, they're fucking SPACE people? To quote another Cameron movie, why don't they "nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure". If not nukes, use the frickin' ion cannon or orbital rail gun. Shit. It's not like Eywa can call upon her biological animals that somehow evolved to survive in a vacuum. They're not the Zerg.

Not only are the humans evil, they're stupid, too.

On an unrelated note, after reading the pandorapedia, I liked how the origins of the RDA were humble, kinda like the origins of another giant tech company - Google. The parallels were intriguing. A company whose motto starts out as "don't be evil" turns evil.

In conclusion - to anyone reading this who will misinterpret my post and reply in a hissy fit like the last guy, please remember that I thought this movie was awesome. I like to nitpick the movies that I like, not just the ones that I hate.

 

[Blackhead]

Her performance was good but nothing special. Don't conflate the outstanding motion capture of her performance (i.e. a technical Oscar), with her actual movements and speech delivery (which is what the acting Oscar is for).

 

[Jokey665]

They're not the Zerg.

OR ARE THEY?

Avatar 2: Jake vs the Mutalisks.

 

[Guardian Bob]

Yeah, I would also love it if Zoe had a nomination. There were some really powerful and emotional scenes, and thats a testament to her as an actress and the technology that was able to get her expressions.

Also, anyone a bit disappointed we don't hear enough of THIS in the soundtrack?

 

[gdt]

Her performance was good but nothing special. Don't conflate the outstanding motion capture of her performance (i.e. a technical Oscar), with her actual movements and speech delivery (which is what the acting Oscar is for).

No one has.

 

[Count Dookkake]

One more thing - okay, these are "Sky People", right? What the hell are sky people doing fighting on the ground? Okay, okay, so the sky people get their asses kicked in the sky as well. Fine. Did the sky people suddenly forget that they're not just sky people, they're fucking SPACE people? To quote another Cameron movie, why don't they "nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure".

Nukes might make it more difficult to mine.

 

[Krev]

Nice thanks, but I want to be able to save it locally.

Try here.

 

[Rentahamster]

Nukes might make it more difficult to mine.

That's why they use the orbital rail gun. The nukes quote was just an example from another movie about fighting aliens that orbital combat is a plausible option.

 

[Veidt]

Yeah, I would also love it if Zoe had a nomination. There were some really powerful and emotional scenes, and thats a testament to her as an actress and the technology that was able to get her expressions.

Also, anyone a bit disappointed we don't hear enough of THIS in the soundtrack?

I agree. My favourite track on the OST aswell.

 

[Giolon]

That wasn't made clear either, as I don't recall them ever mentioning what star system they were going to. Just that it took 5 years.

I don't think it was in the movie, but I saw a video about Pandora narrated by Sigourney Weaver stating that it was in the Alpha Centauri system, 4.4 light years away from earth.

 

[border]

Don't conflate the outstanding motion capture of her performance (i.e. a technical Oscar), with her actual movements and speech delivery (which is what the acting Oscar is for).

The parts where she is yelling and crying tend to sound sort of corny and fake to me. Saldanna's performance is serviceable at best.....I'm not sure why people seem to think it will stand out against other live action stuff.

Doesn't matter, even if she gets nominated she will lose to Helen Mirren (Old Fogie Sympathy Vote) or to Sandra Bullock (Erin Brockovich 2009).

 

[mrkgoo]

That's why they use the orbital rail gun. The nukes quote was just an example from another movie about fighting aliens that orbital combat is a plausible option.

I admit the setting could have been more defined, but I think it was wry deliberate to just give you the barest backstory so they can just showcase pandora. The more detail you add in a movie sometimes you just create many more holes.

Sky people just because they came from the sky. Arguably, the navi make much better sky people

 

[Combine]

That's why they use the orbital rail gun. The nukes quote was just an example from another movie about fighting aliens that orbital combat is a plausible option.

It's been noted several times. The RDA has no legal access to Nuclear weapons or any other form of WMD, and using them would probably bring about immense backlash. I'm sure the

Spoiler

massacre at the Hometree

would have brought backlash on its own, though no doubt no media of it was ever sent back to Earth.

Also, the ISV's are not armed vehicles. They're designed to travel from point A to point B and that's all. I think some people are getting this universe confused with Cameron's Aliens universe.

RDA is not Weyland-Yutani in terms of its scope (not yet anyways). There are no "Colonial Marines" with ships like the Sulaco which had weapons capabilities.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

I look at it entirely differently. Can Cameron possibly ever match the intensity and obsession required to make the first? What can it deliver that will be different than the first and make it stand on its own? Really, really hard to say. I'd almost rather he leave it at this.

I think he can make a sequel better. Let's be honest, there's plenty of room for improvement. Don't get me wrong, I loved Avatar. I've already seen it twice and intend to see at least once more in theaters, but it could still be improved upon as far as story goes and character attachment. Although I felt emotion from a lot of the movie, I never felt any emotion for any of the deaths. Also, the only two sequels (3 if you count Rambo 2) he's made were better than the original. History is on his side as far as that's concerned. Also, he seems to have intended a sequel from the get go. That was part of his sales pitch to Fox. He also has the technology already set up, so he can better focus his energy on making the movie as good as it can be rather than on technical aspects.

Agreed; I don't want a sequel if it's just to make money; I want a sequel if Cameron thinks that he has another story to tell and more of the world to show to us in an engaging way. And I have no doubt that the intensity required from him to get this made must be draining; I hope he doesn't rush his decision.

I agree. I don't want a sequel if it's just studios wanting to cash in on it. Too may great franchises have been ruined because of it. I can say this though. If Cameron is on board for a sequel, that would be a lot better than another director taking over. I don't think that would happen in the next 5 years or so, so I would say there's a safe bet if there is a sequel, he'll be directing it.

 

[BigGreenMat]

So I just got back from a 3d showing... and I was blown away. I was skeptical cameron could pull it off, but that was the most visually engrossing and charming world I have seen. I am definitely seeing it again and really hope for a sequel. I want to go back to pandora!!

 

[Guardian Bob]

So I just got back from a 3d showing... and I was blown away. I was skeptical cameron could pull it off, but that was the most visually engrossing and charming world I have seen. I am definitely seeing it again and really hope for a sequel. I want to go back to pandora!!

Welcome to the club.

 

[StuBurns]

Try here.

Worked a charm, thank you Sir.

 

[Rentahamster]

It's been noted several times. The RDA has no legal access to Nuclear weapons or any other form of WMD, and using them would probably bring about immense backlash. I'm sure the

Spoiler

massacre at the Hometree

would have brought backlash on its own, though no doubt no media of it was ever sent back to Earth.

Also, the ISV's are not armed vehicles. They're designed to travel from point A to point B and that's all. I think some people are getting this universe confused with Cameron's Aliens universe.

RDA is not Weyland-Yutani in terms of its scope (not yet anyways). There are no "Colonial Marines" with ships like the Sulaco which had weapons capabilities.

They can't use nukes or ion cannons? (if an ion cannon is classified as a WMD. A rail gun probably wouldn't be). They don't need to. Just fire regular missiles from space. You mean to tell me they don't have the resources or knowhow to duct tape a missile platform to one of the orbiting ships?

 

[Jamesfrom818]

They can't use nukes or ion cannons? (if an ion cannon is classified as a WMD. A rail gun probably wouldn't be). They don't need to. Just fire regular missiles from space. You mean to tell me they don't have the resources or knowhow to duct tape a missile platform to one of the orbiting ships?

I think legality rather than capability is the issue.

 

[Jonm1010]

One more thing - okay, these are "Sky People", right? What the hell are sky people doing fighting on the ground? Okay, okay, so the sky people get their asses kicked in the sky as well. Fine. Did the sky people suddenly forget that they're not just sky people, they're fucking SPACE people? To quote another Cameron movie, why don't they "nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure". If not nukes, use the frickin' ion cannon or orbital rail gun. Shit. It's not like Eywa can call upon her biological animals that somehow evolved to survive in a vacuum. They're not the Zerg.

Not only are the humans evil, they're stupid, too.

Didnt someone say the corporation wasnt allowed to have WMDs? Wouldnt that eliminate their ability to "nuke" them from orbit?

You also get the distinct impression from Ribisi's character that their decision to engage militarilly is not something that is probably accepted back home and that maybe the stockholders would turn a blind eye, but that had the citizenry been alerted it could mean their demise, hence, why they were looking for a diplomatic solution and why he was hesitant to do it.

I distinctly got the impression that engaging the natives with force is not something morally acceptable on Earth and is one of the reasons why I think its pretty clear Cameron isnt actually broadbrushing all of humanity by proxy of the corporation.

 

[Jonm1010]

They can't use nukes or ion cannons? (if an ion cannon is classified as a WMD. A rail gun probably wouldn't be). They don't need to. Just fire regular missiles from space. You mean to tell me they don't have the resources or knowhow to duct tape a missile platform to one of the orbiting ships?

And if they have missiles that rely on tracking and are trying to shoot into a place that disrupts their tracking what good would that do? Na'Vi hide out in untrackable area, soldiers have to come back eventually, you take them out guerrilla style. Plus you also get the distinct impression the corporation and the colonel are operating in a cloud of hubris and think that eliminating them is a piece of cake.

But again, its a movie. The Na'vi would have been better off going IED style and using Jake to rig some explosives he could steal to guerilla fight them, but then the movie wouldnt be as fun. And these hypotheticals are kinda pointless. films are about conveying a set of emotions and telling a story, not being the most accurate to real life.

 

[elrechazado]

I don't think that was made clear at all because...



That wasn't made clear either, as I don't recall them ever mentioning what star system they were going to. Just that it took 5 years.

I didn't get the impression that humanity is desperate, but whatever.


I still find it to be implausible in the sense that the energy tech required to develop near-light speed space travel would also allow humans to power their machines with non-polluting renewable energy. This would cut out the need for fossil fuels entirely and bring an end to one of the most severe dangers to our environment.

Other sources of pollution like materials manufacturing and garbage disposal would still exist, of course, but again - humans advanced enough for near light speed travel can't develop a cleaner way of producing/mining materials (or even just outsourcing the production and mining to some dead planet or space platform? Besides, zero-g is a good place to produce certain pure crystals that can't be made on earth.) Humans advanced enough for near light travel are not advanced enough for efficient recycling tech? Implausible, I say.

One more thing - okay, these are "Sky People", right? What the hell are sky people doing fighting on the ground? Okay, okay, so the sky people get their asses kicked in the sky as well. Fine. Did the sky people suddenly forget that they're not just sky people, they're fucking SPACE people? To quote another Cameron movie, why don't they "nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure". If not nukes, use the frickin' ion cannon or orbital rail gun. Shit. It's not like Eywa can call upon her biological animals that somehow evolved to survive in a vacuum. They're not the Zerg.

Not only are the humans evil, they're stupid, too.

On an unrelated note, after reading the pandorapedia, I liked how the origins of the RDA were humble, kinda like the origins of another giant tech company - Google. The parallels were intriguing. A company whose motto starts out as "don't be evil" turns evil.

In conclusion - to anyone reading this who will misinterpret my post and reply in a hissy fit like the last guy, please remember that I thought this movie was awesome. I like to nitpick the movies that I like, not just the ones that I hate.

Orbital bombardment is apparently anathema to people with giant ships that orbit planets in the future. You always have to go down and fight hand to hand...for some reason.

To the people saying they don't have nukes, orbital bombardment with kinetic weapons is just as amazing.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

http://cgi.ebay.com/JAMES-CAMERONS-AVATAR-CAST-SIGNED-POSTER-SEEN-ON-TMZ_W0QQitemZ220530126339QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item33589eae03

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

we called it

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

What the fuck are people talking about nukes for? How the fuck are they supposed to mine the site of resources after nuking it? Radiation isn't exactly friendly to minerals one wants to harvest.

 

[Count Dookkake]

What the fuck are people talking about nukes for? How the fuck are they supposed to mine the site of resources after nuking it? Radiation isn't exactly friendly to minerals one wants to harvest.

I know, right?

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?

 

[Rentahamster]

I think legality rather than capability is the issue.

So blowing away hometree from the air is okay, but shooting it from space isn't?

Didnt someone say the corporation wasnt allowed to have WMDs? Wouldnt that eliminate their ability to "nuke" them from orbit?

Yes, can't use nukes, but that was just so I could quote Aliens. Fire missiles from space, or drop an asteroid on them.

You also get the distinct impression from Ribisi's character that their decision to engage militarilly is not something that is probably accepted back home and that maybe the stockholders would turn a blind eye, but that had the citizenry been alerted it could mean their demise, hence, why they were looking for a diplomatic solution and why he was hesitant to do it.

If destroying the natives was such a problem, he wouldn't have done it. Oh no, I gave the order for genocide and maybe I feel bad now! Lemme just have this melancholy frowny face for the rest of the movie. Pleeeease.

I distinctly got the impression that engaging the natives with force is not something morally acceptable on Earth and is one of the reasons why I think its pretty clear Cameron isnt actually broadbrushing all of humanity by proxy of the corporation.

So the RDA is moral enough to abide by a WMD non-proliferation agreement, but genocide isn't beneath them? Hard to swallow. An entity willing to commit genocide would probably smuggle in some nukes if it wanted to.

 

[Guardian Bob]

http://cgi.ebay.com/JAMES-CAMERONS-AVATAR-CAST-SIGNED-POSTER-SEEN-ON-TMZ_W0QQitemZ220530126339QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item33589eae03

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

we called it

:lol Because real fans sell something they went through that much to get.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

http://cgi.ebay.com/JAMES-CAMERONS-AVATAR-CAST-SIGNED-POSTER-SEEN-ON-TMZ_W0QQitemZ220530126339QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item33589eae03

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

we called it

:lol

Cameron just killed his sale by not signing it. What good is a meat pie made entirely of pastrie and missing the meat?

 

[elrechazado]

What the fuck are people talking about nukes for? How the fuck are they supposed to mine the site of resources after nuking it? Radiation isn't exactly friendly to minerals one wants to harvest.

Nobody's saying only nukes. Again, kinetic weapons from orbit. Read up on it.

Anyway, they can't breathe on pandora, presumably the mining will be done by a lot of machines, and the humans involved will be in suits. They don't have lead technology to work in radioactive environments? They can make full robotic body suits but can't deal with radiation while mining a planet with a toxic (to humans) atmosphere?

 

[Jonm1010]

What the fuck are people talking about nukes for? How the fuck are they supposed to mine the site of resources after nuking it? Radiation isn't exactly friendly to minerals one wants to harvest.

Apparently its fun to deal in hypotheticals that can just as easily be countered with more hypotheticals but make you feel smart if you ignore those counter hypotheticals.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Nobody's saying only nukes. Again, kinetic weapons from orbit. Read up on it.

Anyway, they can't breathe on pandora, presumably the mining will be done by a lot of machines, and the humans involved will be in suits. They don't have lead technology to work in radioactive environments? They can make full robotic body suits but can't deal with radiation while mining a planet with a toxic (to humans) atmosphere?

I'm not talking about the site becoming difficult to excavate within, I'm saying that the mineral itself would be compromised by the radiation.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

So blowing away hometree from the air is okay, but shooting it from space isn't?

You're only thinking about Pandora. Those ships have to return to Earth. I very much doubt that Earth's government(s) would like it if companies had fleets of ships capable of bombarding a planet from orbit.

Nobody's saying only nukes. Again, kinetic weapons from orbit. Read up on it.

And turn the unobtainium that they want into a fine dust that blows away in a breeze?

 

[StuBurns]

http://cgi.ebay.com/JAMES-CAMERONS-AVATAR-CAST-SIGNED-POSTER-SEEN-ON-TMZ_W0QQitemZ220530126339QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item33589eae03

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

we called it

Cameron redeemed. He saw the cock bag, knew of the bullshit, called it, and shut the shit down. Awesome.

 

[Rentahamster]

What the fuck are people talking about nukes for? How the fuck are they supposed to mine the site of resources after nuking it? Radiation isn't exactly friendly to minerals one wants to harvest.

I know, right?

Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?

Nukes reference was just so i could quote Aliens. They could use conventional weapons from orbit as well.

And if they have missiles that rely on tracking and are trying to shoot into a place that disrupts their tracking what good would that do?

Don't need tracking to carpet bomb.

Plus you also get the distinct impression the corporation and the colonel are operating in a cloud of hubris and think that eliminating them is a piece of cake.

Shooting from space would be an even bigger piece of cake. You make a good point, though. The colonel dude being arrogant and twisted enough to forgo easier methods of attack in favor of a more hands on approach so he can see his enemies killed before his eyes. That's food for thought.

 

[Jonm1010]

So blowing away hometree from the air is okay, but shooting it from space isn't?


Yes, can't use nukes, but that was just so I could quote Aliens. Fire missiles from space, or drop an asteroid on them.


If destroying the natives was such a problem, he wouldn't have done it. Oh no, I gave the order for genocide and maybe I feel bad now! Lemme just have this melancholy frowny face for the rest of the movie. Pleeeease.


So the RDA is moral enough to abide by a WMD non-proliferation agreement, but genocide isn't beneath them? Hard to swallow. An entity willing to commit genocide would probably smuggle in some nukes if it wanted to.

This hypothetical game is utterly retarded. Is this what nerds do for fun or something? Well if in my hypothetical they think like this, and they secretly stole this and could get away with it, and my hypothetical tells me this characters imaginary personality is really like this, why didnt they do this? Really? I mean your really doing this?

 

[elrechazado]

This hypothetical game is utterly retarded. Is this what nerds do for fun or something? Well if in my hypothetical they think like this, and they secretly stole this, and my hypothetical tells me this characters imaginary personality is really like this, why didnt they do this? Really? I mean your really doing this?

Discussing avatar on the neogaf OT forum isn't nerdy, but pointing out some logic issues with the movies is. I really need to take notes so I know what's cool.

 

[Jonm1010]

Discussing avatar on the neogaf OT forum isn't nerdy, but pointing out some logic issues with the movies is. I really need to take notes so I know what's cool.

Let me rephrase, is this what CERTAIN nerds find fun.

 

[border]

Even if they nuked the natives, people on Earth wouldn't find out about it for 6 years. I kinda wonder if anyone would even care at that point. How PR and news might work when information travels so slowly is an interesting topic for a more cerebral science fiction film or book.

 

[Rentahamster]

Is this what nerds do for fun or something?

Yes. What are you doing posting on a videogames message board, anyway?

 

[Count Dookkake]

This hypothetical game is utterly retarded. Is this what nerds do for fun or something? Well if in my hypothetical they think like this, and they secretly stole this, and my hypothetical tells me this characters imaginary personality is really like this, why didnt they do this? Really? I mean your really doing this?

I am now picturing the climactic time battle at the end of Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCpJBzB17g0

 

[Rentahamster]

Even if they nuked the natives, people on Earth wouldn't find out about it for 6 years. I kinda wonder if anyone would even care at that point. How PR and news might work when information travels so slowly is an interesting topic for a more cerebral science fiction film or book.

Yeah, I was curious as to why there weren't any reporters or government inspectors on site.

Also, as to what kind of communications tech the humans had access to. If they're still only stuck with EM communication, their radio signals will only reach earth about 8 months before the ship does.

 

[StuBurns]

Even if they nuked the natives, people on Earth wouldn't find out about it for 6 years. I kinda wonder if anyone would even care at that point. How PR and news might work when information travels so slowly is an interesting topic for a more cerebral science fiction film or book.

Although it's not in the film, the scriptment implies they have communication methods that are superluminal. They can send messages back to change what and who is on the ships leaving earth.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I wonder what the communication powers of the Pandoran trees are.

Could be like Card's ansible. Could give the Navi quite an advantage.

 

[elrechazado]

Let me rephrase, is this what CERTAIN nerds find fun.

aww, nice try, but you tried to play the nerd card and ended up with the unintentional self ownage.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I wonder what the communication powers of the Pandoran trees are.

Could be like Card's ansible. Could give the Navi quite an advantage.

Yep. Didn't Grace say the connection between the roots was instant when they were observing them? Though they were right next to each other.

Here's a question, are the Na'vi just going to live and hang out at the tree of souls? Where are they going to hammock now?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

aww, nice try, but you tried to play the nerd card and ended up with the unintentional self ownage.

Nerds come in all shapes and sizes. You can criticize a nerd that wont stop nitpicking a movie hypothetically while being a video game nerd at the same time.

 

[Jonm1010]

Heres the issue with all of your hypotheticals. They are based on assumptions, not anything tangible or real. Because it is a fantasy world concocted in the head of the creator. Therefore any hypothetical you come up with has as much weight as anything I have to counter it as long as its in the realm of the rules the creator laid out. And given how little the creator laid out, theres a lot of room for assumption.

You say they can nuke them? I say that the earth federation has advanced regulations on nukes and orbital missles and the corporation have no access to them. you say they can smuggle them. I say the government has advanced detection capabilities and that they would find the smuggled weapons and the corporation wouldnt risk it. now you could go back and forth and come up with some other assumption filled hypothetical to counter mine.

Your answer is no more right than mine. But its an excercise in futility. They're all just built on assumption backed hypotheticals.

 

[Dead]

Yep. Didn't Grace say the connection between the roots was instant when they were observing them? Though they were right next to each other.

Here's a question, are the Na'vi just going to live and hang out at the tree of souls? Where are they going to hammock now?

Maybe the sequel will be partly about finding a new suitable home for the clan (or they will have already found one by the time it starts)

Would be cool to see the entire RDA compound retrofitted for use by the Science team and Avatars

 

[StuBurns]

Nerds come in all shapes and sizes. You can criticize a nerd that wont stop nitpicking a movie hypothetically while being a video game nerd at the same time.

Ultimately, no one on GAF should be throwing 'nerd' around as anything derogatory. Some people like to endlessly debate the minute detail of fictional works such as Avatar, if they enjoy it, awesome.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Here's a question, are the Na'vi just going to live and hang out at the tree of souls? Where are they going to hammock now?

They will 'build' a new one, while testing the hospitality and patience of nearby tribes. I don't think the sequel will show them to be as harmonious between tribes.




Also, I imagine RDA is very interested in the tech applications of the trees.