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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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Blader5489 said:
I'd rank the Cameron films as:

Avatar > The Abyss (in spite of its godawful ending) > Aliens > Terminator > T2/True Lies/Titanic (I don't like any of them)
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There is no way in this reality that Avatar is better than Terminator 2 or Aliens.
 
Really hard for me to rate avatar.
No one is going to argue about the visuals. I think the Dances with Wolves storyline really is it's weakest point. I really wish they'd gone with something more imaginative while keeping the environmentalist/anti-colonial theme of the movie.

What is probably most regrettable is that the whole approach to 'understanding' the Na'vi was just so cliche hollywood.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
1980.
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OK, the reason I ask is because you said meh to Aliens, describing it as overrated. In my experience, peeps that were born after it's release, tend to like it less than us older folks.

Kinda like how my dad's favorite Bond movies were the Connery ones and I never saw the draw. Goldeneye was my favorite new Bond.

Before GAF goes crazy, I've never seen Casino or Solace.
 
Saw the film yesterday on new years eve. First movie I have ever seen in 3D.

The movie itself was average, aside from the amazing visuals the storyline and characters were so 2 dimensional and everything was cliche. This literally was dancing with wolves with aliens. The problem is that Cameron was more obsessed with the world of Pandora than the story.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Kinda like how my dad's favorite Bond movies were the Connery ones and I never saw the draw.
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I think the problem here isn't an age thing at all.. its just that you just have bad taste in movies.
 
Pakkidis said:
Saw the film yesterday on new years eve. First movie I have ever seen in 3D.

The movie itself was average, aside from the amazing visuals the storyline and characters were so 2 dimensional and everything was cliche. This literally was dancing with wolves with aliens. The problem is that Cameron was more obsessed with the world of Pandora than the story.
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I thought it directly ripped off something else than Dances with Wolves, especially at the end. Lesse, a bomb that is supposed to finally crush the opposition is used against the people who were planning to use it in the first place? The main villain is about to kill the main lead when some chick in blue winds up saving him? Where have I seen that before?

The Simpsons Movie. Cameron, you talentless hack.
 
Dax01 said:
There is no way in this reality that Avatar is better than Terminator 2 or Aliens.
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I think it is... Avatar provides an extremely unique experience compared to previous Cameron movies. It's his most technical groundbreaking film and his most emotive imo. Its message, although blatant, would be obvious no matter how presented, because the message is accurate/true. Cameron takes human nature and our history and renders it right before our eyes with the most immersive technology around. It's a reflection of our behavior/society, an ugly reflection... its un-deniable and it's globally acceptable. It's a calling for unity. I think it's his best.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Going back that far, even with inflation, you can't find a movie that opened with $100m and went up the next week. Which is my point. I'm going to take this reponse to be you conceding that point.

If you can find a movie that, even adjusted for inflation, had $100m opening week an went up the second week, we'll talk. Until then you are just changing the subject away every time I make a simple point. When you have to pivot to ticket numbers sold a couple decades ago and away from box office, which is what we're talking about, the conversation is pretty much over.
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Unfortunately, BOM reserves adjusted figures for its "premium" members, but I'm pretty sure Return of the Jedi did it.
 
Karma Kramer said:
I think it is... Avatar provides an extremely unique experience compared to previous Cameron movies. It's his most technical groundbreaking film and his most emotive imo. Its message, although blatant, would be obvious no matter how presented, because the message is accurate/true. Cameron takes human nature and our history and renders it right before our eyes with the most immersive technology around. It's a reflection of our behavior/society, an ugly reflection... its un-deniable and it's globally acceptable. It's a calling for unity. I think it's his best.
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Well I can't agree with that part. Yes there are parts that hit you, but I can name at least 3other moments in his films more affecting.
 
leavin in a bit to see this on IMAX 3D, this will be my 3rd time! cant wait.. hopefully my parents will like it, they havent been on a movie theater since 2006!
 
Scullibundo said:
Well I can't agree with that part. Yes there are parts that hit you, but I can name at least 3other moments in his films more affecting.
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I think
the destruction of home tree
is his most emotionally powerful scene in any of his films.
 
I saw it again today for the fourth time. I'm still noticing new things - like the detail that Avatars have eyebrows and Na'vi don't. And during the battle at the end, Neytiri has a five fingered handprint on her chest in warpaint. Since Na'vi only have 4 fingers, while Avatars have five, there's only one person who could have put his hand there without losing it. ;)
 
Sharp said:
Unfortunately, BOM reserves adjusted figures for its "premium" members, but I'm pretty sure Return of the Jedi did it.
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Adjusting Return of the Jedi's 23,019,618 opening weekend from 1983 dollars to 2009 dollars (using the calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics) yields 49,134,670.

It's second weekend dropped 25%.
Scullibundo said:
Well I can't agree with that part. Yes there are parts that hit you, but I can name at least 3other moments in his films more affecting.
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For you. I can only name one.
Giolon said:
I saw it again today for the fourth time. I'm still noticing new things - like the detail that Avatars have eyebrows and Na'vi don't. And during the battle at the end, Neytiri has a five fingered handprint on her chest in warpaint. Since Na'vi only have 4 fingers, while Avatars have five, there's only one person who could have put his hand there without losing it. ;)
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Wow. Love that second detail.
 
Giolon said:
I saw it again today for the fourth time. I'm still noticing new things - like the detail that Avatars have eyebrows and Na'vi don't. And during the battle at the end, Neytiri has a five fingered handprint on her chest in warpaint. Since Na'vi only have 4 fingers, while Avatars have five, there's only one person who could have put his hand there without losing it. ;)
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Norm?
 
Giolon said:
I saw it again today for the fourth time. I'm still noticing new things - like the detail that Avatars have eyebrows and Na'vi don't. And during the battle at the end, Neytiri has a five fingered handprint on her chest in warpaint. Since Na'vi only have 4 fingers, while Avatars have five, there's only one person who could have put his hand there without losing it. ;)
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Ohhhh shit, I surely didn't saw that handprinted paint :lol
 
AniHawk said:
Just saw T2 again a month ago. I really like it, but some of the comedy relief and one liners kinda hurt the film. There's none of that stuff in Aliens. Well, none that's distractingly bad anyway (like "I need a vacation").
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What? Aliens is full of retarded one liners.

I'm not gonna say anymore, though. The pedestal people put T2 and Aliens on given their more sober and thoughtful first movies grates on me, but I've had the argument far too many times.
 
Just got back from seeing it, and my god it was so much better than I thought! I hadn't been following any of the hype, and knew nothing of the story. Every trailer I seen in the months leading up to its release really put me off it. Neither my friends nor I wanted to see it. So while everyone was either hungover or at family, I went to see it on my own (which was a first) because I was so bored!

I can't believe how beautiful the film is. I really wish it was a real place! And the message of the film really worked for me, because I left the cinema hating the human race! :lol
Because I went in to see it having low expectations, it has really blown my mind, really enjoyed it a lot.
 
Too hard to rank Cameron's movies, so Im not even going to try. All I know with certainty is that True Lies is my least favorite.
 
maharg said:
What? Aliens is full of retarded one liners.

I'm not gonna say anymore, though. The pedestal people put T2 and Aliens on given their more sober and thoughtful first movies grates on me, but I've had the argument far too many times.
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I'm with you on T2, but Alien is from a different director, so that doesn't fit into the discussion of ranking Cameron's movies. Aliens was also in a different genre and had different objectives than Alien, making direct comparisons difficult.
 
maharg said:
What? Aliens is full of retarded one liners.
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There are lots in Avatar too, but I think it works when the main people who say them are cliche military guys anyway. Terminator 2 had the machine saying "I need a vacation." It doesn't make sense.
 
Giolon said:
I saw it again today for the fourth time. I'm still noticing new things - like the detail that Avatars have eyebrows and Na'vi don't. And during the battle at the end, Neytiri has a five fingered handprint on her chest in warpaint. Since Na'vi only have 4 fingers, while Avatars have five, there's only one person who could have put his hand there without losing it. ;)
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Never noticed this. I saw the warpaint, but did not notice the hand print. Cameron doesn't like to miss any details that's for sure. Nice touch on his/their part.
 
How about theatrical cuts vs director's cut of Cameron's movies?

To be honest I watched the DC of Aliens some months ago and I didn't like it that much. That backstory was interesting...but eh the movie is slowed down too much. I prefer the tighter pacing of the theatrical cut. More is sometimes just...more. I also prefer the theatrical cut of T2. Don't care for Sarah's dream AT ALL, or arnold's smiling scene. I haven't seen the TC of The Abyss in forever, so I can't say much about that, but from what I've read this is the one JC movie in which the DC changes the movie signficantly.

James Cameron is definitely not Ridley Scott. :P "Fortunately" in the case of Avatar you can tell a bunch of stuff has been chopped up, so a DC should almost assuredly be superior.

As for more my JC rankings, this is it for me:

T2 (at this point it may just be the nostalgia, but I doubt it will ever be topped as the best action movie ever for me)
Aliens
AVATAR
Terminator
The Abyss
True Lies
.
.
.
Titanic

edit: HEH at all of JC's movies starting with either A or T...that's kinda weird. :P
 
AniHawk said:
This disturbed the piss outta me when I first saw it. Makes the movie really tame in comparison.
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I know the first time I watched T2 on DVD I was like..."wait...WHAT THE FUCK is this shit!?"
 
jett said:
I know the first time I watched T2 on DVD I was like..."wait...WHAT THE FUCK is this shit!?"
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I didn't even know it was a director's cut. I saw it on VHS when I watched it for the first time.

EDIT: Oh, you're talking about the Kyle Reese stuff. I was talking about the nuclear bomb SARAH ON FIRE AND SKIN BURSTING OFF HER BONES part.
 
I'm gonna have to go with:

Avatar
Terminator 2
Aliens
Titanic
Terminator
Abyss Special Edition
True Lies


Now...Avatar may drop below Terminator 2 for me, but there is just something about this film for me. I will wait till it's been out a bit longer to make my mind up there, but I just do not see the list changing honestly. The good thing about James Cameron is your list no matter the order is in no way a fail. You cannot go wrong with his movies in any form. He just really hit all the right chords for me on Avatar.
 
I would take all of the Extended Cameron flicks over the regular ones

Abyss obviously as the theatrical was basically an incomplete version of the movie. And the T2 and Aliens special editions, I dont feel like they take anything away whatsoever, and the additions are mostly pretty welcome. When I sit down to watch either of them, theres no question as to which cut Im going to watch.
 
jett said:
How about theatrical cuts vs director's cut of Cameron's movies?

To be honest I watched the DC of Aliens some months ago and I didn't like it that much. That backstory was interesting...but eh the movie is slowed down too much. I prefer the tighter pacing of the theatrical cut. More is sometimes just...more. I also prefer the theatrical cut of T2. Don't care for the Sarah's dream AT ALL, or arnold's smiling scene. I haven't seen the TC of The Abyss in forever, so I can't say much about that, but from what I've read this is the one JC movie in which the DC changes the movie signficantly.

James Cameron is definitely not Ridley Scott. :P "Fortunately" in the case of Avatar you can tell a bunch of stuff has been chopped up, so a DC should almost assuredly be superior.

As for more my JC rankings, this is it for me:

T2 (at this point it may just be the nostalgia, but I doubt it will ever be topped as the best action movie ever for me)
Aliens
AVATAR
Terminator
The Abyss
True Lies
.
.
.
Titanic

edit: HEH at all of JC's movies starting with either A or T...that's kinda weird. :P
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I can't agree with you on any of that. And here. we. go:

Aliens DC: It is definitely not just more. The backstory of Ripley losing her biological daughter makes her attachment to Newt (who has lost her mother) all the more meaningful.

Her relationship with Hicks as developed in the DC is brilliant. Not your typical pairing, but one of mutual respect. It is through this respect that he is actually able to enter into the surrogate family unit of Ripley and Newt. The DC scene of their farewell and exchanging of first names before Ripley's descent into hell is one of my favourite scenes in any of Cameron's films.

You also have a lot more build up to the action. You don't see an Alien till maybe 70 minutes in. There is this awful feeling of dread as they explore the lost colony. Also, a lot of the imagery which was cut out of the theatrical version is very evocative of the first film - the ship existing as a life of its own whilst everybody else is asleep being among other things.

Once the action starts, the scene with the turrets running out of ammo from an unseen enemy edging closer and closer adds A LOT more tension. Very scary stuff. Shame it was cut.

As for Terminator 2:

I loved the Kyle dream sequence. It really showed how deep of a hole Sarah was in and it was a nice continuation of that love from the first film. Great to see him exactly as he had died.

The scene where they remove the chip from the T800 is great. First because the explanation in theatrical cut for how it might learn is very broad, and secondly because it shows Sarah's rightfully placed mistrust of the Terminator still exists.

The smiling scene is absolutely worth it. Not only is it funny, but it makes the moment where the T800 picks up his minigun and smiles (and John commenting about both the gun and the smile: 'It's definitely you', all the more awesome.

Also you get the T1000 glitching at the end which was just undeniably cool.

As for THE ABYSS, I don't need to explain that. The theatrical cut and DC are 2 completely different movies.
 
Scullibundo said:
I loved the Kyle dream sequence. It really showed how deep of a hole Sarah was in and it was a nice continuation of that love from the first film. Great to see him exactly as he had died.
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A cut of any movie featuring Biehn > a cut without him.

Heres something Ive often wondered, being a Biehn fan. Since T2 is in so many ways T1 Redux, why not just go the whole way and cast Biehn as the T-1000? Dont get me wrong, Robert Patrick was great, but there could have been an awesome shit-in-your-pants-tension scene if Sarah thought she was running away from the Terminator (Arnie) and TOWARDS a somehow resurrected Kyle Reese.

Somnia said:
OT: But is the Abyss on blu-ray yet?
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I dont think ANY of Cameron's movies are aside from T2, and even that still hasnt gotten a decent release.
 
Solo said:
A cut of any movie featuring Biehn > a cut without him.

Heres something Ive often wondered, being a Biehn fan. Since T2 is in so many ways T1 Redux, why not just go the whole way and cast Biehn as the T-1000? Dont get me wrong, Robert Patrick was great, but there could have been an awesome shit-in-your-pants-tension scene if Sarah thought she was running away from the Terminator (Arnie) and TOWARDS a somehow resurrected Kyle Reese.



I dont think ANY of Cameron's movies are aside from T2, and even that still hasnt gotten a decent release.
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Because it wouldn't have made any sense.
 
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