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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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Damn, who gets 4 days for MLK? Well, the line unit here is, due to a training holiday, but still..
Anyway, interesting discussion on the Na'vi and the messages of Avatar. I've read the "Avatar Sourcebook" or whatever it was and while it doesn't go into exhaustive detail on the Na'vi culture, I've developed my own theroy, which seems in line with the original script quoted above.
I think the Na'vi are SLAVES to Eywa. They seem to lack some critical elements of ambition, modivation, and a need for self-improvement. Their society seems very static and their environment provides a meager subsistence-level amount of resources. Granted, due to the mild climate they seem to be able to live quite well without clothing, real shelter, and food storage, and the bio-network can replace the need for permanent information storage systems, but I find it almost impossible to believe that no Na'vi experience greed, jealousy, or hate to the point where strife isn't more common or that they couldn't be exploited by the RDA. Surely ornamental trinkets, food, or steel/ceramic weaponry would be of use to them.
But of course Eywa stops this type of thinking, making the Na'vi little more than semi-sentient care-takers of the environment. Eywa doesn't want technology to develop, it doesn't want the Na'vi to progress to a point where they can see through Eywa and exploit resources at their own pace. Of course Eywa's method seems stable and much more maintainable than the human way, but it seems like the Na'vi have no choice in the decision process.
Avatar isn't so much "white-guilt" or anti-capitalist, in my opinion, as it is almost a celebratrion of the concepts of the pastoral fantasy and the noble savage. It is anti-urban, and clearly it touches many folks who feel that they have "lost" something for not doing more stuff outside. The Na'vi are savage, but reflect a compassion and strength of character not seen in many of the humans (supplanted by greed, cowardice, etc). We see this same sentiment cast upon Native American tribes; rather than blood-thirsty raiders they become full of quiet dignity, reserved control, and only respond to insults initiated by the crass, arrogant outsider.
I can watch the film and be drawn in, fully caring for Jake and the Na'vi, while at the same time realizing and accepting that where I on Pandora, I'd be riding in a mech gunning the blue bastards down
The drive for unobtanium and the uses it has for a failing humanity would overshadow my respect for Pandora.
Anyway, interesting discussion on the Na'vi and the messages of Avatar. I've read the "Avatar Sourcebook" or whatever it was and while it doesn't go into exhaustive detail on the Na'vi culture, I've developed my own theroy, which seems in line with the original script quoted above.
I think the Na'vi are SLAVES to Eywa. They seem to lack some critical elements of ambition, modivation, and a need for self-improvement. Their society seems very static and their environment provides a meager subsistence-level amount of resources. Granted, due to the mild climate they seem to be able to live quite well without clothing, real shelter, and food storage, and the bio-network can replace the need for permanent information storage systems, but I find it almost impossible to believe that no Na'vi experience greed, jealousy, or hate to the point where strife isn't more common or that they couldn't be exploited by the RDA. Surely ornamental trinkets, food, or steel/ceramic weaponry would be of use to them.
But of course Eywa stops this type of thinking, making the Na'vi little more than semi-sentient care-takers of the environment. Eywa doesn't want technology to develop, it doesn't want the Na'vi to progress to a point where they can see through Eywa and exploit resources at their own pace. Of course Eywa's method seems stable and much more maintainable than the human way, but it seems like the Na'vi have no choice in the decision process.
Avatar isn't so much "white-guilt" or anti-capitalist, in my opinion, as it is almost a celebratrion of the concepts of the pastoral fantasy and the noble savage. It is anti-urban, and clearly it touches many folks who feel that they have "lost" something for not doing more stuff outside. The Na'vi are savage, but reflect a compassion and strength of character not seen in many of the humans (supplanted by greed, cowardice, etc). We see this same sentiment cast upon Native American tribes; rather than blood-thirsty raiders they become full of quiet dignity, reserved control, and only respond to insults initiated by the crass, arrogant outsider.
I can watch the film and be drawn in, fully caring for Jake and the Na'vi, while at the same time realizing and accepting that where I on Pandora, I'd be riding in a mech gunning the blue bastards down
The drive for unobtanium and the uses it has for a failing humanity would overshadow my respect for Pandora.The Vatican says Avatar is stupid:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100112/ap_en_mo/eu_vatican_avatar
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100112/ap_en_mo/eu_vatican_avatar
jason10mm said:Damn, who gets 4 days for MLK? Well, the line unit here is, due to a training holiday, but still..
Anyway, interesting discussion on the Na'vi and the messages of Avatar. I've read the "Avatar Sourcebook" or whatever it was and while it doesn't go into exhaustive detail on the Na'vi culture, I've developed my own theroy, which seems in line with the original script quoted above.
I think the Na'vi are SLAVES to Eywa. They seem to lack some critical elements of ambition, modivation, and a need for self-improvement. Their society seems very static and their environment provides a meager subsistence-level amount of resources. Granted, due to the mild climate they seem to be able to live quite well without clothing, real shelter, and food storage, and the bio-network can replace the need for permanent information storage systems, but I find it almost impossible to believe that no Na'vi experience greed, jealousy, or hate to the point where strife isn't more common or that they couldn't be exploited by the RDA. Surely ornamental trinkets, food, or steel/ceramic weaponry would be of use to them.
But of course Eywa stops this type of thinking, making the Na'vi little more than semi-sentient care-takers of the environment. Eywa doesn't want technology to develop, it doesn't want the Na'vi to progress to a point where they can see through Eywa and exploit resources at their own pace. Of course Eywa's method seems stable and much more maintainable than the human way, but it seems like the Na'vi have no choice in the decision process.
Avatar isn't so much "white-guilt" or anti-capitalist, in my opinion, as it is almost a celebratrion of the concepts of the pastoral fantasy and the noble savage. It is anti-urban, and clearly it touches many folks who feel that they have "lost" something for not doing more stuff outside. The Na'vi are savage, but reflect a compassion and strength of character not seen in many of the humans (supplanted by greed, cowardice, etc). We see this same sentiment cast upon Native American tribes; rather than blood-thirsty raiders they become full of quiet dignity, reserved control, and only respond to insults initiated by the crass, arrogant outsider.
I can watch the film and be drawn in, fully caring for Jake and the Na'vi, while at the same time realizing and accepting that where I on Pandora, I'd be riding in a mech gunning the blue bastards down
We didn't delve deep enough to know what the Na'vi are capable of. Personally I thought I saw greed, jealousy, & hate gainst Jake. Rumor from the encyclopedia is they had conflicts with other Na'vi. Further, there is not that much interaction outside of a particular tribe, just like with humans.
I think it is human nature to not hurt your family/friends s the Na'vi weren't acting unusual in that regard. What is unusual is the interaction they have with their world. I wouldn't call that slavery. I think they understand the balance they have to keep to make sure the planet stays around.
I also don't think the Na'vi are anymore savage than the mercs who are out to kill them/manifest destiny just for a mineral deposit which is what Cameron is getting at. He obviously is not against technology or even against war/violence, but he appears to be against it's use to hurt others and the environment for commercial gain. I don't have a problem with that message even if I was whacky enough to disagree with it.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Shouldn't we wait to get Monday's totals first?
Jibril said:Paraphrasing
I don't see any line which can remotely be paraphrased to suggest that there is any intention to say the movie is stupid or even dumb. The article clearly expresses that the story is somewhat "bland" which is to say it is unoriginal, but where does it express that it is dumb or stupid?
The marketplace expands for the holiday weekends. There will be room for Eli'sduckroll said:
far too small
On that note, in addition to Avatar's domestic box office being revised up $2m, the international take was revised up over $8m yesterday as well. It was a $200m weekend, world-wide, $150m overseas, $50m domestic.
It's already put $220m between it and the previous #2 movie WW.
adjectives
Dabookerman
Member
Jibril said:
Since when did people care what they say lol.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Enosh said:
It's not white guilt. What about it is white guilt? Humans from another planet landed on a planet that had a more primative race on it. They wanted a great resource for energy and $$$ reasons.
The white guy that eventually fought with them didn't do it because he was white. He didn't do it because the Na'vi were dumb and too stupid to fight back (due to their nativeness).
So what's the race issue that you see?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Saw this tidbit on (of all things) an ESPN NFL column:
Will there be a larger backlash movement starting soon?
Count Dookkake
Member
Sounds like that dude should be taking crazy pills if he doesn't see a difference between US military and mercenary forces.
What a douche.
Interesting how the rest of the audience could applaud, despite being near a base in a conservative city...
What a douche.
Interesting how the rest of the audience could applaud, despite being near a base in a conservative city...
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
He was obviously sitting in a theater full of libruls, or maybe even illegal immigrants.Count Dookkake said:
XiaNaphryz said:
Fortunately it's too late and has little to do with the international market even if the US dried up to nothing.
I still don't get the controversy since it's not the military being fought.
I also don't get why Americans would stand behind troops that do whatever is necessary just because they are American troops. The easiest way for the mercs not to die would be to not attack the Na'vi in the first place. Once they crossed that line, was Jake supposed to pull a no kill rule for people trying to kill him?
krypt0nian
Banned
White guilt?!?
You know how you post LOL but you don't literally laugh out loud?
Well I did just shake my head so SMH.
You know how you post LOL but you don't literally laugh out loud?
Well I did just shake my head so SMH.
Instigator
Banned
XiaNaphryz said:
Technically, it's more like cheering the slaughter of Blackwater mercenaries.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Jibril said:But those are Mercenaries. I guess Mercenaries and US soldiers are synonymous to the dude.
Some of it is actually mentioned earlier in the same article, right before the quote I posted:ShOcKwAvE said:
Count Dookkake
Member
JAKE FUCKING SAYS THEY ARE MERCENARIES IN THE FIRST 5 FUCKING MINUTES OF THE MOVIE.
Sorry for the shouting, guys. It is not directed at you.
Sorry for the shouting, guys. It is not directed at you.
Isn't this directly addressed in the movie itself though? When Jake first lands on Pandora, he specifically says that back at home these people were soldiers fighting for countries and ideals, but out here they're just another hired gun. He also specifically mentions the mindset of "once a marine always a marine" regarding himself in particular.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Pffft, that time's for getting the last condiments for your food and snacks obviously!Count Dookkake said:
What does it matter from a plot standpoint. Let's say the mercs are really the Marines who decide to force people off their land and blow up they sacred lands. Is Jake supposed to not doing anything because they are operating as military?
I would have a hard time believing that since by the final battle he was far more Na'vi than human.
I would have a hard time believing that since by the final battle he was far more Na'vi than human.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Count Dookkake said:
Not only that but Quaritch re-enforces that point when he is giving Jake the post-weightlifting speech. He makes it clear that he was former military but now, presumably a Colonel without a war to fight, he became the head of Private Security for RDA.
Count Dookkake
Member
icarus-daedelus said:
Kinda sorta, except it is 'real.'
I get your point though.
Now some of those gus know how it feels to be German/Japanese/Russian/Vietnamese/Middle Eastern in a war movie :lol
I thought that it was odd when the French girl behind us started laughing when gunships were crashed and door gunners eaten by Nikran, but I have no sympathy for the false outrage people have over this movie. ZOMG humans die! ZOMG mostly American ex-militaries AREN´T the bestestest guys ever! White guilt! Noble savage stereotype!
And smh, Vatican, smh. I expected more of you and the spider queen ruling you.
I thought that it was odd when the French girl behind us started laughing when gunships were crashed and door gunners eaten by Nikran, but I have no sympathy for the false outrage people have over this movie. ZOMG humans die! ZOMG mostly American ex-militaries AREN´T the bestestest guys ever! White guilt! Noble savage stereotype!
And smh, Vatican, smh. I expected more of you and the spider queen ruling you.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
XiaNaphryz said:
WTF is wrong with seeing American soliders blown up first of all? But more importantly they weren't even American military soliders. :lol
CassidyIzABeast
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091117&sportCat=nfl
haters gonna hate. Same author btw
What I find amusing in all this is how the film goes out of its way to establish this. You've got the military side dismissing it as religious gobbledygook, and the scientists saying, well no actually it's biology. And the movie goes on to demonstrate that. It's decidedly not religious.icarus-daedelus said:
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