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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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Bah, I've already seen it four times in the movies and I'll probably see up to eight to ten times by the end of it's run. I'll even buy the deluxe DVD edition whenever it's coming out. I'm not what you could call a part of the 'problem'.
 
Vic said:
Bah, I've already seen it four times in the movies and I'll probably see up to eight to ten times by the end of it's run. I'll even buy the deluxe DVD edition whenever it's coming out. I'm not what you could call a part of the 'problem'.
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...I guess that all depends on your definition of "the problem". :|
 
Yay. ma'issue of Cinefex came in the mail, and holy crap is it awesome. An 80-page article (over half the entire issue) on how they made Avatar, from Cameron's conception on through to final editing. I'm only five pages in, and it's just fantastic. Absolutely worth the price.
 
Spike Spiegel said:
...I guess that all depends on your definition of "the problem". :|
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Nothing's wrong at all with being an Ava'terd :) I must precise that I've rarely been to movies these past years.
 
2cws70w.jpg

Just got the Survival Guide in the mail, it's awesome so far!!
 
GhaleonEB said:
Yay. ma'issue of Cinefex came in the mail, and holy crap is it awesome. An 80-page article (over half the entire issue) on how they made Avatar, from Cameron's conception on through to final editing. I'm only five pages in, and it's just fantastic. Absolutely worth the price.
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Be sure to post any interesting info we didn't already know. That is the only reason I don't want to import it. I've already got two EMPIRE UK mags dedicated to AVATAR and read pretty much everything since its inception, so its hard to find anything new on it that is worth reading.
 
Scullibundo said:
Be sure to post any interesting info we didn't already know. That is the only reason I don't want to import it. I've already got two EMPIRE UK mags dedicated to AVATAR and read pretty much everything since its inception, so its hard to find anything new on it that is worth reading.
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There's also a digital release.
 
American Cinematographer article on Avatar

http://www.theasc.com/magazine_dynamic/January2010/Avatar/page1.php

Interesting read

also:

Because so much of the film’s world is virtual, Fiore was constantly matching interactive lighting with elements that would be comped into the image in post. An example of this is a plasma storm that takes place on Pandora. “What is a plasma storm? No one knows — it’s all inside Jim’s head!” Fiore exclaims with a laugh. “We had to figure out a way to create a fantastic event that no one had ever seen before. In the scene, Scully is in a remote science lab with Dr. Augustine [Sigourney Weaver], and they see the storm happening outside the windows. We had to find a way to create the effect of the storm on their faces.” He turned to the DL.2, a DMX-controlled LCD projector that acts like an automated light source. By utilizing a preset “anomalous” pattern in the DL.2 and projecting the image through Hampshire Frost onto the actor’s faces, Fiore achieved a unique look for the storm’s lighting effects.
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Plasma Storm? Wha?
 
Scullibundo said:
Be sure to post any interesting info we didn't already know. That is the only reason I don't want to import it. I've already got two EMPIRE UK mags dedicated to AVATAR and read pretty much everything since its inception, so its hard to find anything new on it that is worth reading.
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Well, I haven't read all of that material. Aside from the online video features, I haven't seen or read anything on how it was made.

There's a long section about how Robert Legato thought of and tested the virtual camera system on The Aviator. He got frustrated with the effects studio not following his instructions on the crash scene and the long lead times back and forth doing different versions. So he built a virtual setup inspired by a flight sim his kid was playing, and then "filmed" the different takes, edited them together and sent them to the effects house for rendering.

When he heard that Cameron was sending out feelers on Avatar, Legato called up Cameron and pitched the virtual camera system to him. It was at that point that Cameron realized he could drop plans to shoot in rain forests, and just use the virtual camera to capture environments as well as actors.

That was a page or two of the article so far. You might have heard that before, but I hadn't and thought it was pretty cool.
 
I assume that is what we see outside the window when Grace is showing Jake the tree of souls stuff on the monitor. I remember the sky outside the window looking very cool, I can't remember if there was a plasma storm though.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Well, I haven't read all of that material. Aside from the online video features, I haven't seen or read anything on how it was made.

There's a long section about how Robert Legato thought of and tested the virtual camera system on The Aviator. He got frustrated with the effects studio not following his instructions on the crash scene and the long lead times back and forth doing different versions. So he built a virtual setup inspired by a flight sim his kid was playing, and then "filmed" the different takes, edited them together and sent them to the effects house for rendering.

When he heard that Cameron was sending out feelers on Avatar, Legato called up Cameron and pitched the virtual camera system to him. It was at that point that Cameron realized he could drop plans to shoot in rain forests, and just use the virtual camera to capture environments as well as actors.

That was a page or two of the article so far. You might have heard that before, but I hadn't and thought it was pretty cool.
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News to me! Cheers.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Yay. ma'issue of Cinefex came in the mail, and holy crap is it awesome. An 80-page article (over half the entire issue) on how they made Avatar, from Cameron's conception on through to final editing. I'm only five pages in, and it's just fantastic. Absolutely worth the price.
Click to expand...

Ugh! I want mine! I hope it arrives soon.
 
Feep said:
The Naa'vi were innocent. The humans were the aggressors. It's pretty simple.
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Maybe I'm just looking for something where there is nothing. It just seems strange that the humans were completely evil.

Maybe it's just a mentality coming from the fact that I just watched Princess Mononoke, a movie that shows a more complex version of good and evil.


Well anyway, I guess that doesn't matter much for this movie. I just wish the struggle had more depth.
 
Oli said:
Maybe I'm just looking for something where there is nothing. It just seems strange that the humans were completely evil.

Maybe it's just a mentality coming from the fact that I just watched Princess Mononoke, a movie that shows a more complex version of good and evil.


Well anyway, I guess that doesn't matter much for this movie. I just wish the struggle had more depth.
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Well not ALL of the humans were evil. Selfridge and Quartich (sp?) were willing to do whatever in order to get to the $$$$ and the mercs were willing to go along with it also because of the $$$$. Sadly that isn't that uncommon from real life.

Jake became very connected with the NA'Vi and felt that he was meant to be there. Don't forget the opening scene of how he was dreaming of flying,etc. I'm sure he just got to the point that he felt like this is where he belongs. Doesn't hurt that he fell in love, but he became one of the People. You could tell when he woke up after the Destruction of Hometree that he didn't care about his human life/body anymore which you could tell throughout the movie as he just kinda gave up when he was not in the Avatar. Or at least I thought so.
 
Oli said:
Maybe I'm just looking for something where there is nothing. It just seems strange that the humans were completely evil.

Maybe it's just a mentality coming from the fact that I just watched Princess Mononoke, a movie that shows a more complex version of good and evil.


Well anyway, I guess that doesn't matter much for this movie. I just wish the struggle had more depth.
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That was my largest complaint about the story. The bad guys were just too evil.

The story would have been given some depth if they could have shown how critical the rock was back on Earth. Like, humans are all fucked without it or something.

Subtlety isn't Cameron's strong suit though.
 
StoOgE said:
That was my largest complaint about the story. The bad guys were just too evil.

The story would have been given some depth if they could have shown how critical the rock was back on Earth. Like, humans are all fucked without it or something.

Subtlety isn't Cameron's strong suit though.
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First time I saw the movie, I thought Selfridge must have had some dialogue cut, because there were a number of shots where you could tell he had misgivings about what was happening. And despite going ahead with the Hometree plan, he gives a couple of opportunities to avoid bloodshed, so it was clear that wasn't his preference. But there's never a scene where his conscience is vented any further, it's all implicit.

I think I remember there being a scene cut where he's fleshed out a bit more, but I'm sure someone who's read the full script can comment better. But it's clear that Cameron places pacing ahead of character depth, since so much character work was cut.
 
GhaleonEB said:
First time I saw the movie, I thought Selfridge must have had some dialogue cut, because there were a number of shots where you could tell he had misgivings about what was happening. And despite going ahead with the Hometree plan, he gives a couple of opportunities to avoid bloodshed, so it was clear that wasn't his preference. But there's never a scene where his conscience is vented any further, it's all implicit.

I think I remember there being a scene cut where he's fleshed out a bit more, but I'm sure someone who's read the full script can comment better.
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Him and Quartich go at it big time before the "war". Q inacts some rule that gives me the ability to take control due to an impending threat basically. Selfridge did not and refused to ok an attack on the Tree of Souls.
 
GhaleonEB said:
First time I saw the movie, I thought Selfridge must have had some dialogue cut, because there were a number of shots where you could tell he had misgivings about what was happening. And despite going ahead with the Hometree plan, he gives a couple of opportunities to avoid bloodshed, so it was clear that wasn't his preference. But there's never a scene where his conscience is vented any further, it's all implicit.

I think I remember there being a scene cut where he's fleshed out a bit more, but I'm sure someone who's read the full script can comment better.
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There were certainly some hints at it and when he gave the final order you could tell he agonized over it a bit. You may be right that the original cut had a more fleshed out version of him.

Hopefully they will make him less of a caricature in the extended cut.

I have no problem with the military guys being so gung ho about the fight. That's normal because they would have to demonize the enemy in their heads to get to a point of being able to kill them.
 
Somnia said:
Him and Quartich go at it big time before the "war". Q inacts some rule that gives me the ability to take control due to an impending threat basically. Selfridge did not and refused to ok an attack on the Tree of Souls.
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Yeah, that's the scene I read about though I didn't know the specifics. It would have added a lot to his character, I think. It also explains the look he gives as Quaritch and company are taking off.
 
Just saw this with my mom today (second time for me and my dad) and she says it's one of the best movies she's ever seen! The 3D didn't make her sick to her stomach either, which usually happens with 3D.
 
Watching those interviews and 'the making of' featurettes makes JC comes off as such a bad ass. He sounds intelligent enough to write a complicated script if he wanted to. Maybe he's smart enough to know that a simple story is all you need to make the 2nd highest grossing movie thus far!
 
y2dvd said:
Watching those interviews and 'the making of' featurettes makes JC comes off as such a bad ass. He sounds intelligent enough to write a complicated script if he wanted to. Maybe he's smart enough to know that a simple story is all you need to make the 2nd highest grossing movie thus far!
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Sometimes complicated narratives really get in the way of pursuing other, equally complicated things.

I hope Inception has both!
 
So apparently FX ran a 30 minute special tonight called "AVATAR: Creating The World of Pandora"...I missed it, but it is playing again at 6PM CST on FMC (Fox Movie Channel I believe). Just thought I'd give people a heads up if they are interested.

Also (don't think anyone posted it) Avatar also took home six Critics Choice Awards last night: best action movie, cinematography, art direction, editing, visual effects, and sound.
 
Tomorrow night is the Golden Globes. Who thinks Avatar will take some awards?

Hard to say really. The Hurt Locker was really good, but it kinda felt aimless in its mid section and it just didnt come across to me as the "amazing" movie everyone said it was. Inglorious Bastards might have a shot. Who knows.
 
The only thing of the golden globes that really interests me will be Scorsese getting the DeMille award. Scorsese was allowed to present it to Spielberg last year with one of the best montages ever and I hope Spielberg has been allowed to return the favour.
 
Scullibundo said:
The only thing of the golden globes that really interests me will be Scorsese getting the DeMille award. Scorsese was allowed to present it to Spielberg last year with one of the best montages ever and I hope Spielberg has been allowed to return the favour.
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I hope you're right. That is something I would be very interested in seeing.
 
Is there a "Create your Avatar character" site?

Kind of like those create your simpson's/southpark/wii character.

Because I saw a screenshot of something like the other day but I couldn't find the site.
 
Somnia said:
So apparently FX ran a 30 minute special tonight called "AVATAR: Creating The World of Pandora"...I missed it, but it is playing again at 6PM CST on FMC (Fox Movie Channel I believe). Just thought I'd give people a heads up if they are interested.
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Crap, missed the FX special. Set the DVR for the FMC broadcast, but I don't have that network in HD :\
 
Somnia said:
So apparently FX ran a 30 minute special tonight called "AVATAR: Creating The World of Pandora"...I missed it, but it is playing again at 6PM CST on FMC (Fox Movie Channel I believe). Just thought I'd give people a heads up if they are interested.
Click to expand...

Is it the Youtube thing that was posted a few pages back? This? Has the same title.
 
I have a Second Life ad for a "free Avatar" - colored blue. :lol

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/b...ekend-teen-girls-turn-out-for-3-lovely-bones/

Avatar Saturday estimate is $17.5m, up 68% from Friday, down 18% (!!!!) from last Saturday. Weekend is still estimated at $40m, which assumes a 30% Sunday drop. Which might be light considering Monday is a holiday. The Saturday-Sunday drop was only 26% last week.

Anyways, a $40m three-day weekend puts Avatar tracking $19.3m ahead of TDK at the same point in its run. So if Avatar suddenly dropped down to TDK numbers and had an identical run from here on out, it would end up with over $550m. TDK made $16.4m its fifth weekend.

Titanic's domestic record is absolutely going down, big time.
 
Don't know if this is old, but I hadn't seen it yet: CG Society article on the making of Avatar. It has some nice technical information on the rendering process at WETA Digital, if you're into that sort of thing.

Some choice facts: there were over 60,000 bugs in some of the shots, the trees/plants were grown using a stochastic process, tons of rendering tidbits.
 
GhaleonEB said:
First time I saw the movie, I thought Selfridge must have had some dialogue cut, because there were a number of shots where you could tell he had misgivings about what was happening. And despite going ahead with the Hometree plan, he gives a couple of opportunities to avoid bloodshed, so it was clear that wasn't his preference. But there's never a scene where his conscience is vented any further, it's all implicit.
Click to expand...

I certainly think people have seriously overstated how "evil" Selfridge and even Quarich are.

Selfridge is actually the character that most changes his stance during the movie. He is definitely pitched as a Burke-like character at the start, but he clearly grows a conscience later in the film. He gives Jake a last chance at diplomacy after Grace confronts him about killing children, even if the ships are already on ruoute. He also looks just as shocked looking at the Hometree falling on the monitors as the scientists. Even in the end he is let go. I see him as a kind of misguided fool character rather than evil. It's a commentary on how companies tends to get dis joined from real life. He really thinks its just a tree. Happens all the time.

Quarich also never directly target Navis, I think this is important. During the Hometree attack he never shoots directly at the tribe, he uses gas. He only uses fire when the smoke is insufficient, and even then he targets only the tree not the people shooting him. He could probably have killed all of them during that attack, but he leaves once his mission is done. In my opinion he is more of a pragmatist, he wants to get his mission done with the least hassle possible. During the second attack he again targets a geographical site. There is a logic to how Quarich acts. He does not kill think twice about killing someone, but he never goes out of his way to do it. The only exception is Jake, that he sees as the cause of the missions failure.
 
How come no one seems to have a problem with the villian in District 9? How is he any deeper than Quaritch? Quaritch at least has some reason to hate everthing on Pandora since it's how his face got fucked up. But the main villian in D9...the military dude...he just seems to enjoy hurting/killing the prawns for no apparent reason.
 
Saw this last night.

Stunning. In every sense of the word. Never have I seen a movie what literally every frame I was wondering to myself "How the fuck did they do this?".

The one liners were horrible though, especially from scarred military dude and pilot chick. Though I can let them slide.

Stunning.
 
ArachosiA 78 said:
How come no one seems to have a problem with the villian in District 9? How is he any deeper than Quaritch? Quaritch at least has some reason to hate everthing on Pandora since it's how his face got fucked up. But the main villian in D9...the military dude...he just seems to enjoy hurting/killing the prawns for no apparent reason.
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You know, this is very true.
 
west said:
I certainly think people have seriously overstated how "evil" Selfridge and even Quarich are.

Selfridge is actually the character that most changes his stance during the movie. He is definitely pitched as a Burke-like character at the start, but he clearly grows a conscience later in the film. He gives Jake a last chance at diplomacy after Grace confronts him about killing children, even if the ships are already on ruoute. He also looks just as shocked looking at the Hometree falling on the monitors as the scientists. Even in the end he is let go. I see him as a kind of misguided fool character rather than evil. It's a commentary on how companies tends to get dis joined from real life. He really thinks its just a tree. Happens all the time.

Quarich also never directly target Navis, I think this is important. During the Hometree attack he never shoots directly at the tribe, he uses gas. He only uses fire when the smoke is insufficient, and even then he targets only the tree not the people shooting him. He could probably have killed all of them during that attack, but he leaves once his mission is done. In my opinion he is more of a pragmatist, he wants to get his mission done with the least hassle possible. During the second attack he again targets a geographical site. There is a logic to how Quarich acts. He does not kill think twice about killing someone, but he never goes out of his way to do it. The only exception is Jake, that he sees as the cause of the missions failure.
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Yeah, I definitely agree with this post, especially after seeing the film multiple times. Perhaps the extended cut will place more detail into it, but Selfridge clearly starts to doubt his decisions. It's unfortunate that his speaking role ends halfway through the film.
 
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