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[kicker]

PC Gamer hosted an 80-minute discussion between some veteran RPG devs; they went over some interesting things about modern design and the future of big-budget RPGs. Worth a listen if you care about this stuff

Podcast Links
- Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aH...=0CAIQuIEEahgKEwi4wse5zL_-AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQsQY
- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pc-gamer-chat-log/id1675128013
- Spotify:

In this bonus episode, we talk to five veteran RPG designers at the 2023 Game Developers Conference in San Francisco. Joining us are:

• Mike Laidlaw (Jade Empire, Mass Effect, the Dragon Age series)
• Paweł Sasko: (The Witcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077)
• Strix Beltran (Hiddden Path's upcoming D&D RPG, State of Decay 2)
• Lis Moberly: (Obsidian's upcoming Avowed, Cursed to Golf, Singularity)
• Josh Sawyer: (Pillars of Eternity, Fallout: New Vegas, Pentiment)

Throughout an 80 minute conversation we talk about whether what players expect from RPGs today, how their personal experiences playing RPGs have informed the games they make, writing characters that really resonate with players, tabletop games and more. Mike Laidlaw describes how the Dragon Age writers' room operated, while Paweł Sasko talks about designing the Bloody Baron quest for The Witcher 3 and the enormous challenges of Cyberpunk 2077's first-person mode.

 

[Fess]

Oh this was great, loved it

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

Whatever happened to David Gaider?

 

[Perrott]

Whatever happened to David Gaider?

I think he had some disputes with BioWare producer Mark Darrah and weirdos from Twitter/Era tried to cancel him (?

 

[Rush2112]

where the hell is todd howard. does this mean starfield will suck.

 

[balls of snow]

Will listen in. Thanks.

 

[StereoVsn]

Read the bit about PoE. Sawyer is blaming the customers for wanting traditional D&D/Infinity Engine type gameplay when that's what they pitched in Kickstarter.

PoE issues were around blandness, from walls of text to itemization to overly aggressive nerfing of fun features on characters for an SP game. At least, IMO.

Also, of course Todd Howard won't show up on this podcast. Bethesda games have no design challenges, they just work!

 

[kicker]

The CDPR guy just seems so excited compared to the others. It almost seems to reflect the difference in energy between veteran studio teams and relatively younger ones. Fun to listen to.

where the hell is todd howard

Todd Howard won't show up on this podcast

It didn't really feel like this was a general open house thing, nor was this strictly lead designers nor studio heads. Why would Todd, specifically, be here? Felt like they looked at the GDC lineup and asked a few people who would be around to speak for a bit.

Sure, I'd have loved to see Sven, Todd, and some others there, but since those two have huge projects releasing in a few months it's kinda understandable they don't have time for events like these

 

[Fess]

The CDPR guy just seems so excited compared to the others. It almost seems to reflect the difference in energy between veteran studio teams and relatively younger ones. Fun to listen to.



It didn't really feel like this was a general open house thing, nor was this strictly lead designers nor studio heads. Why would Todd, specifically, be here? Felt like they looked at the GDC lineup and asked a few people who would be around to speak for a bit.

Sure, I'd have loved to see Sven, Todd, and some others there, but since those two have huge projects releasing in a few months it's kinda understandable they don't have time for events like these

CDPR guy made me want to replay Cyberpunk. Should be fun with the path tracing in place. He highlighted the struggles well when it comes to not using camera cuts, never really thought about how tricky that must be. And I absolutely loved the immersion in certain scenes from the first person perspective so I’m glad they never listened to the complaints and swapped back to third person. (I was one of those complaining and saying I wouldn’t play it because of the first person view. Didn’t know better. Sorry CDPR!)

 

[StereoVsn]

CDPR guy made me want to replay Cyberpunk. Should be fun with the path tracing in place. He highlighted the struggles well when it comes to not using camera cuts, never really thought about how tricky that must be. And I absolutely loved the immersion in certain scenes from the first person perspective so I’m glad they never listened to the complaints and swapped back to third person. (I was one of those complaining and saying I wouldn’t play it because of the first person view. Didn’t know better. Sorry CDPR!)

Personally I would have taken 3rd person if they could have spent the time instead on making Night City more interactive and less soulless.

I just don't feel like payoff is there. City design is amazing, but it's mostly pointless.

 

[cormack12]

Sweet, I love this kind of stuff. Podcast for tomorrow sorted.

 

[Fess]

Personally I would have taken 3rd person if they could have spent the time instead on making Night City more interactive and less soulless.

I just don't feel like payoff is there. City design is amazing, but it's mostly pointless.

Adding believable ”life” is probably the most difficult part of game development, add interactivity and there aren’t many (or any?) devs who can do it.
Rockstar can do life but they have cuts in convos and interactivity is low. Bethesda have interactivity and somewhat living worlds but use camera cuts for conversations. FROM have a more or less dead world and static NPCs and interactivity is low except for crashing obstacles.
What CDPR should’ve focused on imo is making the life paths have bigger differences.

 

[StereoVsn]

Adding believable ”life” is probably the most difficult part of game development, add interactivity and there aren’t many (or any?) devs who can do it.
Rockstar can do life but they have cuts in convos and interactivity is low. Bethesda have interactivity and somewhat living worlds but use camera cuts for conversations. FROM have a more or less dead world and static NPCs and interactivity is low except for crashing obstacles.
What CDPR should’ve focused on imo is making the life paths have bigger differences.

I would be fine with camera cuts. Bethesda approach, but not as "deep" would be great for Cyberpunk, IMO.

And yes, life paths should have done much more but still, from metro to street vendors to basic NPCs, it's so lifeless.

I really wish CDPR didn't just dump their engine for next Cyberpunk, but instead built in current for a sequel.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I liked Tyranny and Pillars of Eternity but there's no big market for that kind of thing in this day and age.
Which is why Baldur's Gate 3 is what it is.

 

[Fess]

but still, from metro to street vendors to basic NPCs, it's so lifeless.

Yeah I agree. They’ve improved it from launch but there is still so much to do. Would be cool to have working shops and people having daily routines etc. Not sure how easy it is to do with that amount of people though. Bethesda have much less people so then they can give them a home and a workplace, for CDPR to do the same they would need to keep track of thousands of people.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yeah I agree. They’ve improved it from launch but there is still so much to do. Would be cool to have working shops and people having daily routines etc. Not sure how easy it is to do with that amount of people though. Bethesda have much less people so then they can give them a home and a workplace, for CDPR to do the same they would need to keep track of thousands of people.

Yeah, they could have had some tiers to NPCs o to speak. You could have had the current quest/jobs NPCs but also next tier down more interactive ones and then lowest (most) would be current "zombies".

This is where generative AI could help a lot I think in the future. Imagine what GPT-5 or -6 model could do with random NPC texts. There are some mods/work being done to show that.

 

[StereoVsn]

I liked Tyranny and Pillars of Eternity but there's no big market for that kind of thing in this day and age.
Which is why Baldur's Gate 3 is what it is.

BG3 looks awful lot like Divinity OS2 plus D&D. Not saying it's a bad thing either, but different devs.

 

[Fess]

Yeah, they could have had some tiers to NPCs o to speak. You could have had the current quest/jobs NPCs but also next tier down more interactive ones and then lowest (most) would be current "zombies".

This is where generative AI could help a lot I think in the future. Imagine what GPT-5 or -6 model could do with random NPC texts. There are some mods/work being done to show that.

Yeah there is probably tricks to do it. Maybe they can have a working train system where the ”zombies” can go or some huge office building the player can’t enter. The current way of just having people walk back and fourth on a walk path isn’t satisfying even if they can stop to sit down and eat and stand in a queue etc. If you follow an NPC the illusion of ”life” break apart fast.

 

[daveonezero]

Read the bit about PoE. Sawyer is blaming the customers for wanting traditional D&D/Infinity Engine type gameplay when that's what they pitched in Kickstarter.

PoE issues were around blandness, from walls of text to itemization to overly aggressive nerfing of fun features on characters for an SP game. At least, IMO.

Also, of course Todd Howard won't show up on this podcast. Bethesda games have no design challenges, they just work!

Yeah I read that too.

I don't understand that statement at all. Listening to it now. I honestly was never into the older infinity engine games. I'm drawn to PoE and PoE2. And enjoyed my time with them. When I get a setup I'll probably play them again.

edit Oh gosh this is them just trying to explain that they can "change people" through video games. One chick literally says "hack someones pyscology"

And then they are justifying it by saying they got changed by games back in the day. And my comment on that is they changed you because they didn't have an objective and just tried to make the best form of entertainment they could. Not pushing an agenda.