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[weemadarthur]

I'm loving your writeups, Jeff. Your sense of humour is great. And you're putting in a lot of effort.

I watched the episode Deathwalker.
This was a great episode, although the writing continues to be predictable from my viewpoint. Perhaps I have simply read too much. This episode alleges to bring up a moral quandary: can a mass murdering psychopath dictator be redeemed if they later bring sufficient value to life? However, it passes on making a determination on either side, instead relying on the obvious point of: people don't really fundamentally change, and

Spoiler

soylent green

. When you've gone 42 minutes without anyone asking

Spoiler

"What's the secret ingredient?"

, you gotta know it's a real problem, right? This is what I find obvious in the writing.

 

[JeffZero]

I'm loving your writeups, Jeff. Your sense of humour is great. And you're putting in a lot of effort.

I watched the episode Deathwalker.
This was a great episode, although the writing continues to be predictable from my viewpoint. Perhaps I have simply read too much. This episode alleges to bring up a moral quandary: can a mass murdering psychopath dictator be redeemed if they later bring sufficient value to life? However, it passes on making a determination on either side, instead relying on the obvious point of: people don't really fundamentally change, and

Spoiler

soylent green

. When you've gone 42 minutes without anyone asking

Spoiler

"What's the secret ingredient?"

, you gotta know it's a real problem, right? This is what I find obvious in the writing.

Hey, thanks!

I remember that episode, but like most of them, I only remember it to a point. I look forward to having more to say once I get there and I'll try to address what you've said. I can agree, broadly, that reading can diminish the twists on TV, haha. I know I've experienced that in the past.

 

[weemadarthur]

Yeah, you just said it about Parliament of Dreams. The twist really IS a little too obvious. I'm all for not killing the messenger, but like all aphorisms, you're supposed to limit it rationally. It's only a majority! It is not 100%!

 

[Joe Condor]

When you've gone 42 minutes without anyone asking

Spoiler

"What's the secret ingredient?"

, you gotta know it's a real problem, right? This is what I find obvious in the writing.

But Deathwalker does say a few things about the key ingredient. And she mentioned before that she alone knows the sercet of the serum.

 

[Mugsy]

I'm loving your writeups, Jeff. Your sense of humour is great. And you're putting in a lot of effort.

I watched the episode Deathwalker.
This was a great episode, although the writing continues to be predictable from my viewpoint. Perhaps I have simply read too much. This episode alleges to bring up a moral quandary: can a mass murdering psychopath dictator be redeemed if they later bring sufficient value to life? However, it passes on making a determination on either side, instead relying on the obvious point of: people don't really fundamentally change, and

Spoiler

soylent green

. When you've gone 42 minutes without anyone asking

Spoiler

"What's the secret ingredient?"

, you gotta know it's a real problem, right? This is what I find obvious in the writing.

What I like best about the episode is the Vorlons (Episode Spoiler)

Spoiler

intervening to just blow her up. If you watch that sequence you can see Kosh silently enter the room before everything happens

. Also it is the first clue that (Series spoiler)

Spoiler

the Vorlons see the other races as children and look down on them. Whether or not they made the right choice here they clearly have their own agenda and are willing to intervene however they want to get it done.

 

[weemadarthur]

But Deathwalker does say a few things about the key ingredient. And she mentioned before that she alone knows the sercet of the serum.

I don't remember her hinting early on about the key ingredient until she rants at the end. Obviously she uses the secret as a leverage to keep herself alive.

My complaint here is that the scientists did not extrapolate, from her known previous work, what was LIKELY to be in the serum. They should have. Nobody, outside of Deathwalker herself, seems to have tried to work it out. They were too scared of repeating decades of science.

 

[Joe Condor]

I don't remember her hinting early on about the key ingredient until she rants at the end. Obviously she uses the secret as a leverage to keep herself alive.

My complaint here is that the scientists did not extrapolate, from her known previous work, what was LIKELY to be in the serum. They should have. Nobody, outside of Deathwalker herself, seems to have tried to work it out. They were too scared of repeating decades of science.

There was a scene where the doctor says he did an analysis of the serum and that it's too complex to develop without her input.

 

[Mugsy]

I don't remember her hinting early on about the key ingredient until she rants at the end. Obviously she uses the secret as a leverage to keep herself alive.

My complaint here is that the scientists did not extrapolate, from her known previous work, what was LIKELY to be in the serum. They should have. Nobody, outside of Deathwalker herself, seems to have tried to work it out. They were too scared of repeating decades of science.

So there is some outside information from JMS that might relate to Deathwalker and her science, I will spoiler it all since it involves one of the major threats for the whole series.

Spoiler

JMS remarked that the Minbari faction that kept her safe is a very "survival of the fittest" type of faction, and so share a lot in common with the Shadows. So much that it is possible that the shadows may give them some help with their scientific work. Also JMS said this could explain how a rogue Minbari had a poison capable of harming a Vorlon during the pilot movie. I don't have the quote in front of me but I believe the main point was to explaining the poison rather than Deathwalker. But Deathwalker's serum would cause the type of war the Shadows want and it would explain why the Vorlons would intervene.

 

[JeffZero]

I just want to mention that I love Mugsy's avatar so damn much.

 

[weemadarthur]

There was a scene where the doctor says he did an analysis of the serum and that it's too complex to develop without her input.

He said they needed her input to avoid repeating decades of work and maybe not get it right...he was really just whining about the workload.

Anyway, it doesn't explain his inability to think about the entirety of her body of work, and figure out likely ingredients. Knowing where to start would be a giant leap if trying to repeat already completed scientific discovery, and they technically knew where to look.

Mugsy, I'll have to wait to read your spoilers until I've watched the whole thing.

 

[4Tran]

I know the image is huge but what can I say? He leaves a big impact. Not for his acting, not for his downfall scene, but for his glasses. This Narn is wearing glasses what is even real anymore.

I loved how Babylon 5 would mix in real world mundane things with the fantastical. There's another episode in the first season where you just have a short scene where Garibaldi and Delenn are watching Looney Tunes. He's laughing his face off while she's perplexedly pecking away at her popcorn. Or another scene where the characters are chatting about baseball; not some fancy space version of baseball, just regular baseball. Things like this give Babylon 5 a more grounded feel and lends its universe a greater sense of authenticity.

There's also the festival of rebirth. It's a beautiful scene as Delenn -- still completely shrouded in her Season 1 layers of mystery -- implores the main players to cast off and be reborn. I can think of few S1 scenes which feel more poignant in retrospect and seem to achieve less at the time. Taken at face value, it's just some Minbari lore-building and a bunch of non-Minbari nodding and smiling and eating the fruit they're given.

Except Londo, who refuses to eat the fruit.

Damn it Londo, you're drunk, go home.

The A plot of Parliament of Dreams is sort of forgettable even though it does say quite a bit about G'Kar. He's weird in ways that belie who he usually projects himself as. I think that this is also the first episode where the viewer finds out that he's into human women.

The B plot is fantastic though. The culture part is great in all sorts of ways.

Spoiler

Originally, I just thought that Londo not eating the fruit was just because he was a bit prissy, but it's obvious that there were hidden meanings at play.

 

[Mugsy]

I just want to mention that I love Mugsy's avatar so damn much.

Thanks, here is the full image it is taken from. There is a version without the text at the bottom but I couldn't find it.

Mugsy, I'll have to wait to read your spoilers until I've watched the whole thing.

Non-spoiler version - It is possible, but never openly stated, that Deathwalker had help in making the serum from some "friends". You can probably read the spoilers I wrote after Season 3 or 4.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Goddamn is Londo my favorite character on the show.

Although, if they were real people, Lenier would be far the most likable and the character I would want to hang with the most.

 

[Sarek]

Goddamn is Londo my favorite character on the show.

Although, if they were real people, Lenier would be far the most likable and the character I would want to hang with the most.

For me B5 was as much about Londo and the fate of the Centauri as it was about Sheridan and the humans. B5 probably did alien races overall better than any other show. None of the major races at felt like comic book caricatures like Star Trek for example.

I really need to rewatch this show. Only seen it fully once as a kid back when it aired...

 

[water_wendi]

im a fan of sci-fi but ive never paid attention to Babylon 5 because of a certain episode. Friend of mine wouldnt shut up about the show and kept going on about how amazing it was so we tune in to the episode airing that night and it was the one with a dude thats the reincarnation of King Arthur. Shut it off not long after that scene and never looked back.

Right now getting ready to give the show a shot and am ready to dive into The Gathering.

 

[BlackLagoon]

im a fan of sci-fi but ive never paid attention to Babylon 5 because of a certain episode. Friend of mine wouldnt shut up about the show and kept going on about how amazing it was so we tune in to the episode airing that night and it was the one with a dude thats the reincarnation of King Arthur. Shut it off not long after that scene and never looked back.

I like that episode, but it's also one that relies heavily on the backstory built up previously to hit home.

Right now getting ready to give the show a shot and am ready to dive into The Gathering.

As others have mentioned previously in the thread, you have to be prepared that you won't meet perfection right out of the gate. There is plenty of good stuff in the first season, but also a quite a bit that... isn't. But if you stick with it, you're in for one hell of a ride.

 

[JeffZero]

I loved how Babylon 5 would mix in real world mundane things with the fantastical. There's another episode in the first season where you just have a short scene where Garibaldi and Delenn are watching Looney Tunes. He's laughing his face off while she's perplexedly pecking away at her popcorn. Or another scene where the characters are chatting about baseball; not some fancy space version of baseball, just regular baseball. Things like this give Babylon 5 a more grounded feel and lends its universe a greater sense of authenticity.

Yeah, I love this stuff, too. Cartoons aren't my thing, admittedly, but the whole draw of the scene still works for me. I feel like Delenn. It's great.

The B plot is fantastic though. The culture part is great in all sorts of ways.

Spoiler

Originally, I just thought that Londo not eating the fruit was just because he was a bit prissy, but it's obvious that there were hidden meanings at play.

The detail in this show is nuts. Even at the beginning.

Thanks, here is the full image it is taken from. There is a version without the text at the bottom but I couldn't find it.

Great Maker, it's glorious.

im a fan of sci-fi but ive never paid attention to Babylon 5 because of a certain episode. Friend of mine wouldnt shut up about the show and kept going on about how amazing it was so we tune in to the episode airing that night and it was the one with a dude thats the reincarnation of King Arthur. Shut it off not long after that scene and never looked back.

Right now getting ready to give the show a shot and am ready to dive into The Gathering.

Here's the thing with Babylon 5. Even in its third season, it has some duds. And some conceptual black holes, like the gig you just mentioned. (The third season as a whole, however, is great. And the fourth, for my money, is that much better.) But the real rough stuff -- plenty of it's early on. It's a show that awards patience like no other and I'm not sure I'd have listened to people telling me so if I didn't already have experience with it as a child. "This show gets better, stick with it" is never exactly a glowing-sounding statement when our time is valuable and there's plenty of media out there that hits it out of the park from the first moment.

So the preceding paragraph probably isn't inspiring much confidence. But there's a reason your friend wouldn't shut up. There's a reason so many people popped in and said "aww, love this show" when I threw up the topic last week. The reason is that overall Babylon 5 is fantastic. The first season rewards rewatches so damn much, even though it's also pretty rough for big stretches and has some bizarre beats. The show has a clear, present, all-encompassing novel-like outline and unlike most cases JMS actually manages to stick with it and deliver what was promised. If you're a fan of a well-told, character-pivotal, expansive plot line created for television with minimal sacrifices, you're in for a treat once you get through the bleh.

As for The Gathering, ah... well, I highly recommend you watch the version that's up on DailyMotion. It's split into two parts because of runtime. It's an extensive 1998 edit from the creators made for re-airing on TNT. It's still not stellar by any stretch but it's eminently more watchable and far tighter and more focused. It's a stronger intro.

 

[4Tran]

im a fan of sci-fi but ive never paid attention to Babylon 5 because of a certain episode. Friend of mine wouldnt shut up about the show and kept going on about how amazing it was so we tune in to the episode airing that night and it was the one with a dude thats the reincarnation of King Arthur. Shut it off not long after that scene and never looked back.

Right now getting ready to give the show a shot and am ready to dive into The Gathering.

Babylon 5 is a really hard show to get into by just watching a random episode. There are standalone episodes, but they tend to be a lot weaker than the story arc ones, and they're sometimes quite bad. The are only a few really good ones like Passing Through Gethsemane and it'd be really hard to find it at random.

The arc episodes are often really good, but they require a bit of context to get the most out of them. Some of them, like Parliament of Dreams, seem like relatively mundane standalone episodes and their arc significance isn't revealed until you rewatch the show. Also it's highly suggested that any new viewer should not watch the opening credits of subsequent seasons. They tend to spoil what happened in the previous season, and some of these spoilers are super big ones. You don't really have to watch the Gathering though; it was full of ideas that the producers decided to scrap before making the show proper.

Here's the thing with Babylon 5. Even in its third season, it has some duds. And some conceptual black holes, like the gig you just mentioned. (The third season as a whole, however, is great. And the fourth, for my money, is that much better.) But the real rough stuff -- plenty of it's early on. It's a show that awards patience like no other and I'm not sure I'd have listened to people telling me so if I didn't already have experience with it as a child. "This show gets better, stick with it" is never exactly a glowing-sounding statement when our time is valuable and there's plenty of media out there that hits it out of the park from the first moment.

The stretch from mid-Season 2 to the end of Season 4 is one of the most stellar in television, but it should be noted that the very worst episode in the whole show is sandwiched between some really excellent ones. For those keeping score, check out Grey 17 is Missing and see what came before and after it. I think that this is the one that JMS himself is most embarrassed about.

 

[BlackLagoon]

As for The Gathering, ah... well, I highly recommend you watch the version that's up on DailyMotion. It's split into two parts because of runtime. It's an extensive 1998 edit from the creators made for re-airing on TNT. It's still not stellar by any stretch but it's eminently more watchable and far tighter and more focused. It's a stronger intro.

Wait, the original version is available somewhere outside bootlegs? I thought jms had burnt all the copies. The special edition is admittedly quite superior, still I do have some nostalgia for the Stewart Copeland score.

 

[JeffZero]

Wait, the original version is available somewhere outside bootlegs? I thought jms had burnt all the copies. The special edition is admittedly quite superior, still I do have some nostalgia for the Stewart Copeland score.

Oh, uhh... maybe I'm mistaken on the particulars here but I've heard the 1998 re-edit is the rarer of the two because it lacks a home video release of any kind. Maybe I'm wrong; I'm asking my friend because she's a walking B5 dictionary. Also, I could swear I watched the original cut back in 2009/10 because

Spoiler

I think I remember a scene(s) which seed Takashima being a sleeper agent.

The special edition got rid of that stuff for obvious reasons.

I'll post more on the subject when I hear back from her.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Oh, uhh... maybe I'm mistaken on the particulars here but I've heard the 1998 re-edit is the rarer of the two because it lacks a home video release of any kind. Maybe I'm wrong; I'm asking my friend because she's a walking B5 dictionary. Also, I could swear I watched the original cut back in 2009/10 because

Spoiler

I think I remember a scene(s) which seed Takashima being a sleeper agent.

The special edition got rid of that stuff for obvious reasons.

My early 2000s R1 DVD has the special edition. I think the original might have shown up on a UK DVD release, but jms was not happy about it.

 

[water_wendi]

Just finished up The Gathering. Overall it was standard fare sci-fi. The low budget wasnt as off putting as the acting but its a pilot so things arent usually to speed right off the bat. i figure ill be watching an episode a day and ill chime in with any thoughts as a first time viewer.

 

[hoos30]

What streaming service in the US currently carries B5? I've been looking for it for years.

 

[weemadarthur]

What streaming service in the US currently carries B5? I've been looking for it for years.

Go90, owned by Verizon, it has some other crap like Veronica Mars and Almost Human as well. Free but limited imo. It doesn't seem to have much ability to fast forward/backpedal, and switching the stream off is odd on mobile.

 

[jb1234]

That's a bad place to stop IMO! Maybe my opinion will change this time (it's been nearly a decade since my original rewatch, after all) but Season 4 was the bee's knees to me back then and it's on my short list of best TV seasons. jb, I'll buy you 10,000 coolness points and um find a way to localize more Trails games if you please rewatch B5 with me and muscle through to the end.

On that note, I'll be doing my "parliamentary" write-up soon!

Man, that's such a tempting offer, haha. It is odd I stopped where I did because I was enjoying season 4 a lot. Not sure what happened...

 

[weemadarthur]

Man, that's such a tempting offer, haha. It is odd I stopped where I did because I was enjoying season 4 a lot. Not sure what happened...

You might as well join, there's already like 3 of us.

 

[jb1234]

You might as well join, there's already like 3 of us.

Yeah but I'm behind!

(I'd skip The Gathering though because it sucks.)

 

[weemadarthur]

Yeah but I'm behind!

(I'd skip The Gathering though because it sucks.)

You're exactly on pace with wendi.

 

[Man God]

I love B5 now. I didn't as a kid despite being huge into sci fi and fantasy. Why? Every time I tuned into the show I got one of the shitty standalone garbage episodes. Plus it kept bouncing around timeslots...and I think its most consistent one was a bit past my bedtime Sunday night after a DS9 repeat.

Then when TNT got it I'm all ready to totally commit to it. Watch the one movie narrated by older Londo, found it okay. Tried watching the other stuff, including the spinoffs, and just noped out.

Watched it 12 years later on Netflix, really dug it. Got to season five again and lost steam halfway through.

Finally finished all of season five the summer 2013 while playing a lot of Animal Crossing New Leaf. Had a friend who had the whole thing on DVD.

 

[Shoeless]

This is making me want to pull out my DVDs and start marathoning the whole series.

 

[4Tran]

I'd join in on the watch as well, but I'm committed to super long books at the moment so I'm not going to have the time.

 

[JeffZero]

Oh hey, lots of replies since last I checked. I'm on a time crunch 'til later tonight but I'll post my write-up for "Mind War" and read all the banter here before bed!

 

[eot]

Marcus is bloody annoying, and I don't much care for Delenn either.

Londo and G'Kar make the show worth watching though.

edit: oh Lenier is annoying as hell too.

 

[water_wendi]

Five minutes into the first episode and everything has improved greatly over the pilot.. acting, directing, sets, writing, music.

edit:

Finished. Much better. Lots of good world building here that happens naturally though the course of the story. Since im just starting the series i dont know if theres much from The Gathering that comes into play later but reflecting on things im guessing it would have been better just to jump right into S1.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I skipped The Gathering and jumped right into S1E1. Didn't seem to negatively impact my enjoyment of the show.

 

[Sinatar]

There is only one plot point from the pilot that has any bearing on the show and they cover that in flashbacks when necessary.

 

[water_wendi]

There is only one plot point from the pilot that has any bearing on the show and they cover that in flashbacks when necessary.

im guessing it has to do with that torture scene between whatshername and Narn dude. Either that or those bagless leaf blower guns make a comeback.

Just finished E02. Good episode. Felt a little rushed at the end. ive always got the feeling that Babylon 5 differs from something like Star Trek in that B5 doesnt feature a lot of "futurism" for lack of a better word. B5 seemed to be more about clash of cultures instead of the thought experiment of how imagined technology would impact life. Is it my imagination or did Soul Hunter guy come across like a Deranged Space Kevorkian?

edit:
Also the new doctor is the best actor on the show.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I skipped The Gathering and jumped right into S1E1. Didn't seem to negatively impact my enjoyment of the show.

The Gathering was more released for people who already love the show than being any kind of real introduction, because it isn't. You'd only miss the S1 remarks on Steven having operated on a

Spoiler

Vorlon

being a big deal, but that's it.

 

[BlackLagoon]

There is only one plot point from the pilot that has any bearing on the show and they cover that in flashbacks when necessary.

Well, there is the introduction of

Spoiler

Lyta

, which becomes more important later. Having a scene that establishes the existence of dust is also a nice little detail.

Also I really like the special edition's expanded scene of Sinclair finding his Battle of the Line medal. As I recall, it sets up the Sinclair's survivors guilt and missing memory better than the early episodes of the series.

 

[eot]

im guessing it has to do with that torture scene between whatshername and Narn dude. Either that or those bagless leaf blower guns make a comeback.

Just finished E02. Good episode. Felt a little rushed at the end. ive always got the feeling that Babylon 5 differs from something like Star Trek in that B5 doesnt feature a lot of "futurism" for lack of a better word. B5 seemed to be more about clash of cultures instead of the thought experiment of how imagined technology would impact life. Is it my imagination or did Soul Hunter guy come across like a Deranged Space Kevorkian?

I think that's a fair assessment, it doesn't have technobabble in the way that Star Trek does.

edit:
Also the new doctor is the best actor on the show.

Londo and G'Kar are played by the best actors, the latter especially. I think you'll agree once you've finished the show

 

[4Tran]

Just finished E02. Good episode. Felt a little rushed at the end. ive always got the feeling that Babylon 5 differs from something like Star Trek in that B5 doesnt feature a lot of "futurism" for lack of a better word. B5 seemed to be more about clash of cultures instead of the thought experiment of how imagined technology would impact life.

Good observation. Babylon 5 operates under two fundamental ideas. The first is that humans are humans, and we're only going to change so much. We talked about sports teams and politics and religion a thousand years ago, so we're probably going to talk about them a thousand years in the future. The second idea is that aliens aren't necessarily humans, no matter how much they look like us. These differences are usually cultural, but they can also be psychological or physiological. And they can be a very big deal.

Babylon 5 isn't really that interested in talking directly about technology, but you can see it in action. For example, all of the main races are at different levels of technological development; you can see it most clearly by looking at how they handle artificial gravity. Humans can only generate it using rotation, and that's why you see Babylon 5's different sections rotate.

 

[JeffZero]

It comes as no great shock that best episode of the first small stretch of Babylon 5 features the introduction of one Alfred Bester. That's not a pun -- it's pure logic.

There's something iconic about the man from the first. There's a popular internet "board" game called Mafia; sometimes it's called Werewolf. Bester is the best kind of maybe-scum. He keeps audiences on-edge. He's smarmy, he's elitist, he's scornful. But there's an element of delicate politeness and the suggestion of humanity cradled beneath the 1984-clad surface. He's intriguing.

And he's joined by one Ms. Kelsey, an arrogant Psi Cop sidekick played by the talented Felicity Waterman. Unfortunately for Ms. Kelsey, her role here is episodic. She'll be vaporized by hour's end, but Bester? Well, I could write a book about Bester. Or three.

Pictured above: the theatrical poster for the 2017 feature film reboot of the timeless Straczynski classic, "Brave Ironheart".

But let's talk plot. First and foremost, "Mind War" is a Talia Winters episode. A man named Jason Ironheart, her former instructor and -- we eventually learn through Sinclair's perspective -- also her former lover, is stowing away aboard the station so that he can finish "becoming." Becoming what, you ask? That's the million dollar, million year question. In a nutshell: the Corps commits dark, seedy practices in the name of human advancement, and Ironheart volunteered, in the hopes of successfully creating that oh-so-rare, legendary holographic of testaments: a telekinetic. Instead, Ironheart has begun to rapidly evolve, if you will, into something else. Something beyond humanity, a shade of the future. Bester and Kelsey violate Talia's mind (all within the parameters of the Corps, of course) in order to gauge that she hasn't had contact with the man. Sinclair abhors this, and Ivanova fires off snark.

"Lady, you are the problem."

Eventually, Ironheart comes into contact with Talia, who favors him once she learns the truth. This is good development for her character, and it showcases Andrea Thompson's range. And while Ironheart inadvertently quarantines a whole section of the station via a #winning combination of shouting and visual effects, Talia will plead to Sinclair to heed her and help her friend.

The result: a dead Kelsey, a blistered, blustering, nevertheless ball-playing Bester, and a Jason Ironheart who has moved beyond this mortal form and into the unknown. Of note: Sinclair tells Garibaldi he'd rather not speak with the Senator about this, because eff that noise. Friction is forming with Earth.

There's also a B-plot, but it's probably just hogwash, right?

Wrong. This is in fact a crucial, fun B-plot, in which Catherine Sakai wins a deal to go scope out Sigma 957 because EDI says there's Element Zero or whatever and G'Kar tries to dissuade her by saying "don't go there." Sakai's no slouch. She's seen the first several episodes and she's read the early fan theories on Telnet. She thinks G'Kar's being an opportunistic scoundrel so she's go there anyway. All's well until...

...an alien remnant illustrated by award-winning auteur Tetsuya Nomura throws her vehemently off course whilst waltzing about like they own the place. She spends the next few scenes flustered at how right G'Kar was until a couple of Narn ships show up led by a guy who's like "heh, G'Kar was right" and she's escorted back to safety.

The final scene is pitch-perfect. Catherine confronts G'Kar over why he helped, for which he reiterates an earlier-stated, series-encompassing quote:

"No one here is exactly what he appears."

It's the best moment in the show's brief history up to this point, and as the pair discuss what in blazes those Sigma 957 "Walkers" could be, Babylon 5 closes its first completely standout hour.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Great write-up! Bester is indeed awesome and Walter Koenig did a fantastic job playing him. So unlikable and so charming at the same time.

 

[JeffZero]

The stretch from mid-Season 2 to the end of Season 4 is one of the most stellar in television, but it should be noted that the very worst episode in the whole show is sandwiched between some really excellent ones. For those keeping score, check out Grey 17 is Missing and see what came before and after it. I think that this is the one that JMS himself is most embarrassed about.

"Grey 17 is Missing" is so dire. I'm not looking forward to that one. You're right, though. It's sandwiched between so much greatness, what the heck.

Watched it 12 years later on Netflix, really dug it. Got to season five again and lost steam halfway through.

Finally finished all of season five the summer 2013 while playing a lot of Animal Crossing New Leaf. Had a friend who had the whole thing on DVD.

Losing steam in Season 5 is kind of common. Heck, my friend blitzed through 1-4 and then stopped on 5. But it's really not as bad as it sounds. 1-4 wrap so much that hopping into an early, unsteady, less confident 5 can be off-putting to anyone. I know people who rewatch the show every few years but only bother with 1-4 + 5x22.

There's a lot to like in -- to borrow some BSG marketing vernacular -- "Season 5.5", though. I look forward to re-evaluating it now that I consciously remember the overall funk but the strong string of episodes in the back half.

This is making me want to pull out my DVDs and start marathoning the whole series.

Marcus is bloody annoying, and I don't much care for Delenn either.

Londo and G'Kar make the show worth watching though.

edit: oh Lenier is annoying as hell too.

Aww, I like all four of those characters!

Five minutes into the first episode and everything has improved greatly over the pilot.. acting, directing, sets, writing, music.

edit:

Finished. Much better. Lots of good world building here that happens naturally though the course of the story. Since im just starting the series i dont know if theres much from The Gathering that comes into play later but reflecting on things im guessing it would have been better just to jump right into S1.

I hesitate to concur that it's best to hop straight into "Midnight", but I am just as hesitant (if not moreso) to disagree with people who recommend that route. It's a far stronger piece of fiction. Season 1 is pretty darn uneven, but "Midnight on the Firing Line" hooks people so much more than the pilot.

Good observation. Babylon 5 operates under two fundamental ideas. The first is that humans are humans, and we're only going to change so much. We talked about sports teams and politics and religion a thousand years ago, so we're probably going to talk about them a thousand years in the future. The second idea is that aliens aren't necessarily humans, no matter how much they look like us. These differences are usually cultural, but they can also be psychological or physiological. And they can be a very big deal.

This (and your second paragraph) is an awesome observation. I hope you stick around through the journey, 4Tran!

 

[4Tran]

It comes as no great shock that best episode of the first small stretch of Babylon 5 features the introduction of one Alfred Bester. That's not a pun -- it's pure logic.

There's something iconic about the man from the first. There's a popular internet "board" game called Mafia; sometimes it's called Werewolf. Bester is the best kind of maybe-scum. He keeps audiences on-edge. He's smarmy, he's elitist, he's scornful. But there's an element of delicate politeness and the suggestion of humanity cradled beneath the 1984-clad surface. He's intriguing.

It should be noted that Bester is named after the science fiction writer Alfred Bester. The real Alfred Bester is known for writing "The Demolished Man", a novel about a detective with telepathic powers.

...an alien remnant illustrated by award-winning auteur Tetsuya Nomura throws her vehemently off course whilst waltzing about like they own the place. She spends the next few scenes flustered at how right G'Kar was until a couple of Narn ships show up led by a guy who's like "heh, G'Kar was right" and she's escorted back to safety.

The final scene is pitch-perfect. Catherine confronts G'Kar over why he helped, for which he reiterates an earlier-stated, series-encompassing quote:

"No one here is exactly what he appears."

It's the best moment in the show's brief history up to this point, and as the pair discuss what in blazes those Sigma 957 "Walkers" could be, Babylon 5 closes its first completely standout hour.

This is perhaps the first indication that G'Kar isn't just a villain, and it's noteworthy that he's the one who gets to deliver the "No one here is exactly what he appears" line.

The A plot for "Mind War" introduces Psi Corps, Bester, and telepaths in general, but I think that the B plot is actually more important of the two. It tells us for all that humans and the other races have accomplished, what's out there can be more wondrous and more deadly than anything that we can imagine. And that we really are still just ants as far as the universe is concerned.

 

[Sad Affleck]

I never thought of G'Kar as a villain to be honest. Londo was always the villain for me.

 

[4Tran]

I never thought of G'Kar as a villain to be honest. Londo was always the villain for me.

It really depends on how you watched the show. When it first aired, G'Kar gave every indication of being a villainous bully, and it's not until episode 6 that he does anything sympathetic. If you watched Babylon 5 as it first aired, the first impressions stick, and you only see it as an attempt to make a more complex villain. If you binge watch the show, these original impressions have less time to sink in, and G'Kar will look quite different.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

It really depends on how you watched the show. When it first aired, G'Kar gave every indication of being a villainous bully, and it's not until episode 6 that he does anything sympathetic. If you watched Babylon 5 as it first aired, the first impressions stick, and you only see it as an attempt to make a more complex villain. If you binge watch the show, these original impressions have less time to sink in, and G'Kar will look quite different.

His actual design changed a lot too. After season 1 he looks much more civilized.

 

[JeffZero]

It should be noted that Bester is named after the science fiction writer Alfred Bester. The real Alfred Bester is known for writing "The Demolished Man", a novel about a detective with telepathic powers.

I forgot about this somehow.

This show inspires me to write great science fiction. It also terrifies me for similar reasons.

 

[Man God]

I've never really liked that line from G'kar. It's too...nail on the head.

Would have been better if he just hit on her because he loves dem humans. It's a moot point anyways as he's

Spoiler

full on a good guy pretty early into the series.