Foliorum Viridum
Banned
So over the last 36 hours I've put an ungodly 20 hours in to GTA IV again. It's been three years since I last went through the story on consoles, so it was the perfect time for me to revisit the main chunk of the game on PC, rather than just mess around as I did when I went back to it on consoles.
It seems like GTA IV is a real love/hate game here on GAF. Many people dislike the more serious tone, missing the days of jetpacks and tank rampages, whereas others were put off by the hyperbolic reviews claiming the narrative was "Oscar worthy" etc etc.
Regardless, I've always personally considered it the peak of the series, and in many ways the pinnacle of modern gaming. I didn't intend to lose the last two days of my life to this game all over again, but it pulled me in and I found myself looking at the clock and wondering where the last six hours went. Very few games have that impact on me, and I hope this thread allows me to articulate what I love so much about it, and I encourage you to do the same!
As I've said already, I played the PC version on max settings (yes, even draw distance, Stallion, if 94 is good enough for you
) and my framerate was somewhere between 25 and 40 at all times. I was used to the framerate from consoles so it didn't bother me too much, and the huge visual improvement was well worth the sacrifice. If you can play this game on PC I implore you to do so, because it really is a different beast. All of the pictures in this thread are downsampled to 720p for the sake of making it easy to read, but I played it at 2048x1152 and it was one of the most "immersive" experiences I've had.
Liberty City 2.0
It's impossible to talk about this game without first mentioning the city itself. GTA 3 almost created the cliche of "living, breathing city" but in this game it's almost completely realised for the first time. I've never played a game that feels so dynamic, so unique and so full of character just because of the setting. It's a game where I love to just walk down the street and see what happens. It ranges from common things like a police officer chasing a criminal, to people doing yoga in the park, a phone ringing and somebody answering it and having a whole conversation next to you, etc etc. There must have been thousands and thousands of lines recorded for the NPCs and the way in which they interact with each other and you (I stopped by a woman with a camera on the pier, for example, and she quipped "what, do you want to borrow this to take a picture?") is ridiculous.
Of course, the city being populated with these people alone isn't the only strong aspect, as the design and architecture are both varied and give atmosphere to each area. I'm not familiar with the New York locations that the games are based on, and how much of it is copied exactly, but the way in which a suburb can naturally lead in to an industrial or urban area is exactly how you'd expect a real city to work. There's no magic line that you cross to enter a new territory, the pretty houses slowly start to look less impressive until they're drug shacks, or the bright lights of Times Square fade away as you wander through the back alleys where grafitti and trash are sprawled all over the place.
Because of these elements, I don't agree with the criticisms that it's too small, or not full of content. To me the size feels just right, it takes a good few minutes to go from one side to the other, but it's just enough that it gives the illusion of being a full city without getting tedious or annoying. Likewise, I don't see the need for more interior locations when there's so much happening out on the streets. Going inside means people sitting down or doing boring activities, and I'd much rather stand on the sidewalk and see more random interactions than any of that. The only interiors I've ever used in the game are safe houses and gun shops, both of which are pretty much required. I've no interest in going to bowling alleys or comedy clubs.
Euphoria and core gameplay mechanics
To compliment this environment is a brand new engine and revamped gameplay mechanics that actually make it fun to play. Now, of course, we've all spent hundreds of hours probably in previous GTA games having a blast, but can you honestly say it was a joy to play? Controls were clunky, animation was choppy and anything combat related was an utter headache.
This time around firefights are absolute blast. Although the cover and lock-on functions could be improved, it's still extremely easy to run from one pillar to the next, headshotting anyone who stands in your way. While it's nice to have this control over your character, it's the smaller details that add to it. The ragdoll physics are a constant source of laughs and unique moments, for starters. During one shoot-out I got a beautiful headshot on a guy on a balcony, who fell down to his death below, knocking off another enemy on his way down. It doesn't even have to be as eventful as that, though, as the way the bodies go limp and collapse when you get that perfect headshot, or drag themselves along when you put a clip in their kneecaps are always satisfying.
These new physics also greatly improve the driving. A common complaint is that the more realistic driving isn't fun, but I honestly can't fathom why someone would feel like this. It's not as if you can't do crazy shit - I've done more big jumps and skidded around more corners than in any of the past GTA games - and it makes the driving feel a lot more rewarding. In a chase it's great to nail the feathering of the brakes perfectly, or weave through traffic on the busy bridges with your back end starting to fight back against the way in which you're steering. I'd go so far as to say that the driving mechanics are better in this game than a lot of racing games I've played over the years.
My favourite thing about driving in this game is the way in which damage impacts your car. Hit a pole dead on? A huge dent appears exactly where you hit it, indicating how much force was behind the impact. Get crushed up against a wall? Your wheel arches crush and jam the wheels, practically leaving your car useless. It's not a simple case of driving around until you see fire like it was in past GTA games, because your car can be wrecked in so many other ways without a single puff of smoke leaving the engine.
Finally, the wanted mechanic makes the cops a force that I actually do try to outsmart. Whereas it was previously a dash to the pay n spray or the nearest "get out of jail free" power-up which I've forgotten the name of, in this game you are shown the force after you and the lengths you'll have to outwit them to escape. Whether this leads to a quick sprint out of the circle, or a mad dash around every back alley you can find, it makes the police seem like a much more natural threat that doesn't have a cystal ball and will follow you to the ends of the Earth. The spawning of the officers also seems pretty damn fair - they'll pop up near you, but if you're good you can avoid their path and continue on your escape.
Missions
I feel that Rockstar did a really good job of creating exciting and unique missions, which were both action and character focused, whilst also eliminating many, but not all, of the frustrating elements that used to plague the franchise.
My biggest annoyance with the previous games used to occur in chase sequences, when the random nature of any open world game could lead to instant failure. To some degree this is very good in an open world game, don't get me wrong, and I don't want complete linearity in the franchise, however I feel the windows for catching up with the cars is greatly increased in this game which allows the adrenaline to continue to flow, rather than forcing you to redo a chase where you know each turn in advance and it becomes dull. Admittedly, sometimes you can actually see the AI slow down on the radar, so it's not quite perfected, but I didn't see "You let x get away" in the entire game and for that I'm thankful.
Also, because of the improved gunplay mechanics, they really went all-out with the action orientated missions. Three Leaf Clover is the closest thing I'll ever get to being next to Robert De Niro in Heat, and some of the later missions that require you to infiltrate a building and work your way through are incredibly tense. AI support is few and far between in the game overall, but when you are fighting alongside an ally they're more often than not a great help, rather than hinderance. The fight in the oil refinery with Packie for the diamonds is the perfect example of this as we both ran through the structure shooting everyone we saw. It felt like actual teamwork, rather than me trying to cover him to make sure he doesn't make me fail.
Now, admittedly, GTA IV does have one pretty big annoyance and that's the lack of checkpoints, This is, of course, fixed in the Episodes, however that doesn't take away the annoyance of being ten minutes in to a mission, walking through a door, having a bloke with a shotgun whom was impossible to see before walking through fill your full of lead, and have to do it all over again. The new dialogue they recorded for repeat attempts was nice, as was the instant retry option via the cell phone, but overall it was clearly not the best way to handle it and I'm glad they realised that for the DLC.
Tone and narrative
Confession time: I really disliked San Andreas. I appreciated the scope of the game, but I didn't enjoy it. There are many reasons for this, which I won't go in to as I don't want to turn this into an anti-SA thread, but the main one was the ridiculous level of situations. Jetpacks, Area 51, etc etc. Vice City (and The Ballad of Gay Tony, later on) were just campy enough for me, but SA went too far.
This is part of the reason why I love that GTA IV went back to basics. Yes, characters like Brucie keep the humour and light heartedness, and of course the writing is as tongue-in-cheek and satirical as ever, but overall the game has a grounded and realistic tone that appeals to me. Afterall, after crafting such a realistic city and engine, it seems silly not to take advantage of that and make a real crime epic.
"Epic" is a two way street in regards to this game, though. It's undoubtedly ambitious, however in a quest to be "epic" it's also a couple of hours too long. The first act starts strongly - Niko and Roman are both sympathetic characters who you want to see succeed, and Niko's mysterious past is an interesting story arc. The way in which they are struggling to merely survive and are constantly thrown in with these scumbags of the city allows you to get behind them completely. However, as the narrative goes on all of this is lost - once Roman's life is literally burnt to the ground and we move on to new areas, Niko gets tangled up with the mob and it starts to feel a bit aimless. That's not to say it's not entertaining, as the characters and missions are strong enough that you're always having fun, however in the third act when the focus returns to Roman and Niko's struggles it's hard to care any more. By this point Niko is literally a mercenary, killing anyone that he's instructed to without question pretty much, and Roman has been pushed to the sidelines. Stretched is the only word I can think of that applies here, and although the game would be a lot shorter and lack some great missions, I can't help but feel overall it would be better if a lot of the mafia content was cut.
The ending, however, is really strong if you choose "money" over "revenge" as I did this time (merely for variety, as I wanted to see how it differs). Roman's death is genuinely touching, with Niko's regret and anger highlighting how good of a voice actor he has, and the final showdown beneath the Statue of Liberty is incredibly bittersweet. I can't remember the small details of how the other scenario played out on my first playthrough, but the fact I can't remember tells me it didn't leave as much of an impact as this.
Thankfully, my main issue with the slow middle section is once again fixed in the Episodes, as they are much shorter and focused.
I'm not sure how many people will actually read this, but it's 3:30am here so I should stop regardless. :lol There are a million more points I could make, but I think you get the idea.
I do feel that nearly all of the weaknesses in GTA IV are resolved in the Episodes, which I will start re-playing tomorrow, so I'll probably update this thread with my views on them in a day or two, also.
TL;DR: The core game, The Lost and the Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony makes GTA IV one of the greatest gaming experiences ever made. If not the best.
It seems like GTA IV is a real love/hate game here on GAF. Many people dislike the more serious tone, missing the days of jetpacks and tank rampages, whereas others were put off by the hyperbolic reviews claiming the narrative was "Oscar worthy" etc etc.
Regardless, I've always personally considered it the peak of the series, and in many ways the pinnacle of modern gaming. I didn't intend to lose the last two days of my life to this game all over again, but it pulled me in and I found myself looking at the clock and wondering where the last six hours went. Very few games have that impact on me, and I hope this thread allows me to articulate what I love so much about it, and I encourage you to do the same!
As I've said already, I played the PC version on max settings (yes, even draw distance, Stallion, if 94 is good enough for you
) and my framerate was somewhere between 25 and 40 at all times. I was used to the framerate from consoles so it didn't bother me too much, and the huge visual improvement was well worth the sacrifice. If you can play this game on PC I implore you to do so, because it really is a different beast. All of the pictures in this thread are downsampled to 720p for the sake of making it easy to read, but I played it at 2048x1152 and it was one of the most "immersive" experiences I've had.Liberty City 2.0
It's impossible to talk about this game without first mentioning the city itself. GTA 3 almost created the cliche of "living, breathing city" but in this game it's almost completely realised for the first time. I've never played a game that feels so dynamic, so unique and so full of character just because of the setting. It's a game where I love to just walk down the street and see what happens. It ranges from common things like a police officer chasing a criminal, to people doing yoga in the park, a phone ringing and somebody answering it and having a whole conversation next to you, etc etc. There must have been thousands and thousands of lines recorded for the NPCs and the way in which they interact with each other and you (I stopped by a woman with a camera on the pier, for example, and she quipped "what, do you want to borrow this to take a picture?") is ridiculous.
Of course, the city being populated with these people alone isn't the only strong aspect, as the design and architecture are both varied and give atmosphere to each area. I'm not familiar with the New York locations that the games are based on, and how much of it is copied exactly, but the way in which a suburb can naturally lead in to an industrial or urban area is exactly how you'd expect a real city to work. There's no magic line that you cross to enter a new territory, the pretty houses slowly start to look less impressive until they're drug shacks, or the bright lights of Times Square fade away as you wander through the back alleys where grafitti and trash are sprawled all over the place.
Because of these elements, I don't agree with the criticisms that it's too small, or not full of content. To me the size feels just right, it takes a good few minutes to go from one side to the other, but it's just enough that it gives the illusion of being a full city without getting tedious or annoying. Likewise, I don't see the need for more interior locations when there's so much happening out on the streets. Going inside means people sitting down or doing boring activities, and I'd much rather stand on the sidewalk and see more random interactions than any of that. The only interiors I've ever used in the game are safe houses and gun shops, both of which are pretty much required. I've no interest in going to bowling alleys or comedy clubs.
Euphoria and core gameplay mechanics
To compliment this environment is a brand new engine and revamped gameplay mechanics that actually make it fun to play. Now, of course, we've all spent hundreds of hours probably in previous GTA games having a blast, but can you honestly say it was a joy to play? Controls were clunky, animation was choppy and anything combat related was an utter headache.
This time around firefights are absolute blast. Although the cover and lock-on functions could be improved, it's still extremely easy to run from one pillar to the next, headshotting anyone who stands in your way. While it's nice to have this control over your character, it's the smaller details that add to it. The ragdoll physics are a constant source of laughs and unique moments, for starters. During one shoot-out I got a beautiful headshot on a guy on a balcony, who fell down to his death below, knocking off another enemy on his way down. It doesn't even have to be as eventful as that, though, as the way the bodies go limp and collapse when you get that perfect headshot, or drag themselves along when you put a clip in their kneecaps are always satisfying.
These new physics also greatly improve the driving. A common complaint is that the more realistic driving isn't fun, but I honestly can't fathom why someone would feel like this. It's not as if you can't do crazy shit - I've done more big jumps and skidded around more corners than in any of the past GTA games - and it makes the driving feel a lot more rewarding. In a chase it's great to nail the feathering of the brakes perfectly, or weave through traffic on the busy bridges with your back end starting to fight back against the way in which you're steering. I'd go so far as to say that the driving mechanics are better in this game than a lot of racing games I've played over the years.
My favourite thing about driving in this game is the way in which damage impacts your car. Hit a pole dead on? A huge dent appears exactly where you hit it, indicating how much force was behind the impact. Get crushed up against a wall? Your wheel arches crush and jam the wheels, practically leaving your car useless. It's not a simple case of driving around until you see fire like it was in past GTA games, because your car can be wrecked in so many other ways without a single puff of smoke leaving the engine.
Finally, the wanted mechanic makes the cops a force that I actually do try to outsmart. Whereas it was previously a dash to the pay n spray or the nearest "get out of jail free" power-up which I've forgotten the name of, in this game you are shown the force after you and the lengths you'll have to outwit them to escape. Whether this leads to a quick sprint out of the circle, or a mad dash around every back alley you can find, it makes the police seem like a much more natural threat that doesn't have a cystal ball and will follow you to the ends of the Earth. The spawning of the officers also seems pretty damn fair - they'll pop up near you, but if you're good you can avoid their path and continue on your escape.
Missions
I feel that Rockstar did a really good job of creating exciting and unique missions, which were both action and character focused, whilst also eliminating many, but not all, of the frustrating elements that used to plague the franchise.
My biggest annoyance with the previous games used to occur in chase sequences, when the random nature of any open world game could lead to instant failure. To some degree this is very good in an open world game, don't get me wrong, and I don't want complete linearity in the franchise, however I feel the windows for catching up with the cars is greatly increased in this game which allows the adrenaline to continue to flow, rather than forcing you to redo a chase where you know each turn in advance and it becomes dull. Admittedly, sometimes you can actually see the AI slow down on the radar, so it's not quite perfected, but I didn't see "You let x get away" in the entire game and for that I'm thankful.
Also, because of the improved gunplay mechanics, they really went all-out with the action orientated missions. Three Leaf Clover is the closest thing I'll ever get to being next to Robert De Niro in Heat, and some of the later missions that require you to infiltrate a building and work your way through are incredibly tense. AI support is few and far between in the game overall, but when you are fighting alongside an ally they're more often than not a great help, rather than hinderance. The fight in the oil refinery with Packie for the diamonds is the perfect example of this as we both ran through the structure shooting everyone we saw. It felt like actual teamwork, rather than me trying to cover him to make sure he doesn't make me fail.
Now, admittedly, GTA IV does have one pretty big annoyance and that's the lack of checkpoints, This is, of course, fixed in the Episodes, however that doesn't take away the annoyance of being ten minutes in to a mission, walking through a door, having a bloke with a shotgun whom was impossible to see before walking through fill your full of lead, and have to do it all over again. The new dialogue they recorded for repeat attempts was nice, as was the instant retry option via the cell phone, but overall it was clearly not the best way to handle it and I'm glad they realised that for the DLC.
Tone and narrative
Confession time: I really disliked San Andreas. I appreciated the scope of the game, but I didn't enjoy it. There are many reasons for this, which I won't go in to as I don't want to turn this into an anti-SA thread, but the main one was the ridiculous level of situations. Jetpacks, Area 51, etc etc. Vice City (and The Ballad of Gay Tony, later on) were just campy enough for me, but SA went too far.
This is part of the reason why I love that GTA IV went back to basics. Yes, characters like Brucie keep the humour and light heartedness, and of course the writing is as tongue-in-cheek and satirical as ever, but overall the game has a grounded and realistic tone that appeals to me. Afterall, after crafting such a realistic city and engine, it seems silly not to take advantage of that and make a real crime epic.
"Epic" is a two way street in regards to this game, though. It's undoubtedly ambitious, however in a quest to be "epic" it's also a couple of hours too long. The first act starts strongly - Niko and Roman are both sympathetic characters who you want to see succeed, and Niko's mysterious past is an interesting story arc. The way in which they are struggling to merely survive and are constantly thrown in with these scumbags of the city allows you to get behind them completely. However, as the narrative goes on all of this is lost - once Roman's life is literally burnt to the ground and we move on to new areas, Niko gets tangled up with the mob and it starts to feel a bit aimless. That's not to say it's not entertaining, as the characters and missions are strong enough that you're always having fun, however in the third act when the focus returns to Roman and Niko's struggles it's hard to care any more. By this point Niko is literally a mercenary, killing anyone that he's instructed to without question pretty much, and Roman has been pushed to the sidelines. Stretched is the only word I can think of that applies here, and although the game would be a lot shorter and lack some great missions, I can't help but feel overall it would be better if a lot of the mafia content was cut.
The ending, however, is really strong if you choose "money" over "revenge" as I did this time (merely for variety, as I wanted to see how it differs). Roman's death is genuinely touching, with Niko's regret and anger highlighting how good of a voice actor he has, and the final showdown beneath the Statue of Liberty is incredibly bittersweet. I can't remember the small details of how the other scenario played out on my first playthrough, but the fact I can't remember tells me it didn't leave as much of an impact as this.
Thankfully, my main issue with the slow middle section is once again fixed in the Episodes, as they are much shorter and focused.
I'm not sure how many people will actually read this, but it's 3:30am here so I should stop regardless. :lol There are a million more points I could make, but I think you get the idea.
I do feel that nearly all of the weaknesses in GTA IV are resolved in the Episodes, which I will start re-playing tomorrow, so I'll probably update this thread with my views on them in a day or two, also.
TL;DR: The core game, The Lost and the Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony makes GTA IV one of the greatest gaming experiences ever made. If not the best.
