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[Rahxephon91]

An amazing game. The level of detail in the game is unparalleled. So much atmosphere. Honestly, games that create an experience are what I like. GTAIV does and the city feels like a place. Now the story is kind of whatever and a lot of the missions kind of sucked, but Gay Tony fixed that. GTAIV isn't my favorite GTA, but it really expanded on what I wanted GTA to do. I always wanted a gameworld that was the correct scale. I never really cared about doing stupid shit in the previous GTAs, thats not why I played them. I played them for the world they took place in so GTAIV was a welcome evolution. I guess I could see why those who wanted to kill shit didn't like it, but I don't care. Gay Tony had awesome missions anyway so Rockstar fixed the mission problem.

 

[rohlfinator]

Agree 100% with the OP. The game had it's problems, but overall it's one of the most impressive and fun experiences of the generation, IMO. RDR was brilliant too. Can't wait to see what they do next.

 

[Papa]

Driving in this game is the best. I don't think I could get into another GTA if Rockstar were to dumb the car handling back down.

There are people who actually enjoyed the driving in this game? How? What?

 

[Plywood]

There are people who actually enjoyed the driving in this game? How? What?

The driving is easily the best part about the game and those screens Kayhan posted, aren't those of the ENB mod? Gorgeous.

 

[dreamfall]

This game got me through a lot of rough shit- I kept revisiting it, replaying it, and just admiring it's ambition. It remains as the most important game for me this generation, and I can understand why many disagree. I used to call it the "Liberty City Nightcap"- stop whatever I was doing every night for nearly two years to spend 20 minutes just walking and driving around the city.

 

[TheVampire]

Mods made it even better

 

[Tylahedras]

I like some parts of it, disliked others, but gameplay rules for me so ultimately I'm on the Debbie Downer side.

 

[Chiggs]

Playing this game on a beefy pc is spectacular; like, "this is the future of gaming" spectacular.

Just a shame the game really isn't that much fun.

 

[Dilly]

Core mechanics like driving, shoot outs and being chased by cops is so much better than the last 3 GTA's could ever deliver.

And yes, the driving is awesome, I hope Rockstar keeps it for the next games.

 

[Gully State]

My guess is that driving in the game was implimented as such due to the low framerate on console. Whatever the case I generally liked the driving though it felt strange at first. My two biggest gripes with GTA4 were the lack of analog runningand the horrible horrible lobby system which singlehandedly killed a potentially good multiplayer.

 

[PuppetMaster]

I love GTA4. Time for this game to get some love again.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Post Gay Tony and Red Dead, I feel like the game systems R* have would be so much better suited to multiple short(er) stories in the worlds they create. I took away many things from playing these games, but as far as a "in a sentence" fix is concerned, making the damn things shorter and more focused, and making up the perceived length by adding more than one story per game, seems like the smart decision here.

We'll see.

I completely agree. I think the next GTA would be great if it took a kinda Pulp Fiction approach. Have an event like the diamond trade or something to base the game on, and flip around it from multiple perspectives.

Imagine if Niko's main story with Roman and the narratives of L+D and BoGT were all in GTA IV and you switched from one to the other over the course of the main game. It would be great. Hell, it would even be good if they didn'tt keep switching perspective and just gave you an option post-game to replay it from the different perspective.

Above all else, I feel Rockstar didn't make enough of the potential of setting stories in Liberty City. I'm not sure if it was sales related or not, but I was really hoping we'd get a few more DLC packs than we did.

 

[Danneee]

Best GTA and one of my favourite games ever. Love that they went with a more realistic style instead of that old goofy style. Everything is just right, story, graphics, physics, gameplay.
We need a new game with this engine (didn't really like RDR, it felt to stiff and riding through the damn desert became a chore fast).

 

[markot]

Mafia 2 gameplay + GTA world and crap = brilliant.

The gunplay in GTA since... well always really, even the 2d ones, has been pretty bad. Instead of trying to 'cram more crap in' they need to get to refining whats there, nail the cars, the on foot, the gunplay, then add whatever the hell you want. It was excusable in GTA3, but there have been 3 main GTA games since then, all suffering the same problems.

And lose the phone and dates.

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

Absolute favourite GTA with Vice City as second. Its an absolute technical marvel, with the insane amount of detail put into the city (seriously, everywhere feels unique, not just copy paste). Loved the story (although it dragged on far too much towards the end), gunfights were great fun, and come on, who wasnt impressed with drunken first person taxi rides home and seeing the city lit up at night in a helicopter And seing as were throwing shots out there, heres some of mine -

(Yes, a burger vendor outside a hospital :lol)

Simply cannot wait for the next game.

 

[Papercuts]

I've never been that vocal about GTAIV on gaf but I'm in the camp that couldn't stand it. I liked it a lot for the first third of the narrative, but it took a hell of a dive after the apartment burning. The main thing that got to me was the complete lack of being inventive with the missions. Shootouts, chases, repeat. I used to love replaying the old GTAs and setting up blockades with cars ahead of time, and just doing whatever I could to speed up missions and outsmart the game. GTAIV was not a fan of this and every attempt I made got removed by the load of the mission, my replay turned out to be the exact same game which really gets under my skin even today. I also hated the bullshit with the chases that were clearly scripted so even if you managed to outsmart the game with a good path, you quickly meet an INVINCIBLE SPEEDING FORCE that launches you out of the way until a random point where you witness some Cinematic Moment™ and can safely either take the person out, or they safely got to an area where you have another shootout.

Storywise, I don't mind if they make it serious, but the way they handled it didn't work. Stuff like the diamond arc gets abruptly ended over the radio, the girlfriend being undercover or whatever has her vanish from the game completely after that, and there was just so much about the way Nico acted that was so contradictory I couldn't take it seriously what so ever. I did love RDR because I felt the story worked so much better in the western environment and like John a lot more as a character, but even that had some similar pacing faults with the Mexico section. I do agree with the above that smaller arcs with multiple characters would be a great thing for R* to try.

So for me, IV was a complete misfire. I've 100%'d every 3D GTA game until IV, I just can't stand how much they stripped away. I'll give them another shot, but I certainly hope they atleast add back some of the sandbox game into the missions again.

 

[cilonen]

Did the episodes ever make money for R* in the end? Their eventual multi platform appearance suggests R* were trying to claw back cash as soon as they legally could.

Just wondering if they'll try that experiment again or whether they'll stick to a more monolithic experience in future

 

[WJD]

Gets way too much shit on here.

Ballad of Gay Tony is one of my favourite games this gen.

 

[Rewrite]

I still haven't finished it because I got annoyed by friends calling on the cellphone every single time. I'd accept to attend to one event, and just as I'm about to go and pick them up, I get another call from another friend asking if I wanna go hang out with them. ugh. Whenever I'd decline I would get bad rep from them. I left off

Spoiler

where you rob the bank

. I'm not even sure if that's near the middle or still in the beginning, but I will eventually go back and finish it. I will say however that the city does feel lively and the presentation of the city itself is just mind blowing to me. It just sucks you in...it's crazy.

One of the best parts about the game was

Spoiler

when they burn Roman's house

. I said to myself, "holy shit".

 

[Lagspike_exe]

It's a great game, but after you play the Episodes, it becomes a master piece.

 

[Ratrat]

How long is this game anyway?

 

[Trent Strong]

To bad about the camera.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

How long is this game anyway?

20-25 hours for the main story, 8-12 for each of the Episodes, probably.

 

[bj00rn_]

Great read.

Yeah, I was briefly confused by the horizontal restrictions at first, until I shortly after realized that the vertical depth and dynamic properties of the game was magnitudes greater. I guess "the lack of jetpacks" makes some of gaming demographic to dislike it, but to me that's only a good thing, and it's easily one of my favorite games "this generation".

 

[Ratrat]

20-25 hours for the main story, 8-12 for each of the Episodes, probably.

Cool, I guess its around the same as RDR so I'll be able to finish it. Glad to hear that the episodes are meaty

 

[thepotatoman]

So after reading this topic I think it seems like either you care about being immersed and impressed and like GTA4, or you like fun and entertainment and like GTA:SA.

I understand and find enjoyement in both types of games but the type of character Rockstar made Niko out to be clashed so hard with both the cutscenes and the gameplay totally and completely ruined any immersion that game had, and without that immersion GTA4 doesn't really have anything left. I remember having like 10s of thousands of dollars in the bank and like 3 apartment buildings and seeing niko still begging for money was the moment i turned off the game and I haven't touched it since.

It was the first game I bought and played for my ps3 because i loved the PS2 GTAs so much and the only coverage I really saw from the game before playing it were the high review scores so I don't think I was setting myself up for hating it.

 

[Seanspeed]

Granted, I haven't played either The Lost and the Damned or The Ballad of Gay Tony, but I cant bring myself to pay for them when I was so deeply disappointed with the main game.

The game is an amazing acheivement, I'll give it that, and what it does, it usually does very well. But it wasn't fun. All my complaints seem to come back to that one main complaint.

My single biggest criticism is that there seemed to be soooo much attention to the little details in the world that a lot of the focus on making a great 'game' was forgotten. Going into the internet cafe and browsing through some funny websites was fun for about 5 minutes. Then I started to wonder why I'm even doing this in a sandbox game, rather than being out in the world doing missions and creating chaos and having fun. Or sitting there watching TV in my living room. I mean, WTF? They obviously a lot of effort into these details, and they're definitely nice touches, but at what cost did they come?

Another big criticism is that after San Andreas, coming back to Liberty City was a bit of a letdown in terms of having an enjoyable environment to be in. The city was believeable and immersive, sure, but I wasn't happy to be trapped in the city(one that I've been to in previous games at that) like I was.

I also think the car handling was terrible and it really made just getting around the city a bit of a chore. I found myself using cabs more often than not just to fast travel, and thats REALLY not how I like to play my open-world games. I'd much rather have gotten to point B by foot or by car or by bike, but I couldn't get over how bad the driving physics were. It wasn't even because it was more realistic, because it wasn't. Realistic would have been great. But almost every damn car in the game understeered to such a ridiculous degree that it became a permanent annoyance. I play racing sims and when my car is understeering, its a problem, because its NOT a fun characteristic to have. I can deal with extreme oversteery cars, especially in games like this, because while it might not be realistic, it can still be fun.

I mean, all in all, it wasn't a bad game, necessarily, it just wasn't all that fun and it was disappointing. I think Red Dead Redemption had the same problem of maybe focusing a little bit too much on small details and not enough on pure fun, but at least that game's setting was refreshing and it was fun to get around. I think a game like Just Cause 2 really nails more of the 'San Andreas' vibe that I, and I think a lot of other people, would have preferred from GTAIV.

So after reading this topic I think it seems like either you care about being immersed and impressed and like GTA4, or you like fun and entertainment and like GTA:SA.

I think its possible to find a good balance between the two, though, and GTAIV didn't acheive that at all.

 

[rezuth]

The game is just okay and nothing more, the physics are horrible, the story is awful and lastly the gameplay is just an endless repetition of "go here, kill this person" or "drive this car all this way".
That said the game can at times look great and it certainly is one detailed gameworld.

 

[spidye]

The game is just okay and nothing more, the physics are horrible, the story is awful and lastly the gameplay is just an endless repetition of "go here, kill this person" or "drive this car all this way".
That said the game can at times look great and it certainly is one detailed gameworld.

this.
most boring missions ever in a gta game.
edit: just read seanspeed's thoughts. cannot agree more. just cause2 is a better gta game than gta4

 

[1-D_FTW]

So after reading this topic I think it seems like either you care about being immersed and impressed and like GTA4, or you like fun and entertainment and like GTA:SA.

That's really kind of arrogant because if opinions = facts, you're wrong.

GTA:SA was a freaking chore. Leave that non-sense jrpg leveling to jrpgs. Fun is having a great driving system, great physics, great cop system & creating havoc. That's fun. GTA IV is spectacular fun if you have an imagination. Grinding is the antidote to fun for me.

EDIT: As for the missions, they've sucked in all games. I call this series Grand Theft Errand Boy for a reason. At least GTA IV gussed it up with an interesting story to reward you for them.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I think its possible to find a good balance between the two, though, and GTAIV didn't acheive that at all.

I feel The Ballad of Gay Tony achieves it. I know you said you don't want to buy the Episodes, but if you can find it cheap I suggest you do. The missions are a lot more crazy, but not to the extent of flying around on a jetpack etc.

As somebody who really didn't like San Andreas I was worried it would go too far, but they managed to get the mix of realism and silly stuff just right.

 

[Seanspeed]

GTA IV is spectacular fun if you have an imagination.

GTA:San Andreas was spectacular fun even if you dont, though. The game just threw so much crap you could play around with(planes, tanks, monster trucks, jetpacks, NASCAR stockers, etc), you most definitely did not need any sort of imagination whatsoever to have fun and cause chaos. It just came so naturally.

And you're really exaggerating the 'grinding' of San Andreas. You didn't really need to do any of that if you didn't want to. Though I do agree it was a bit annoying to have to eat every once in a while.

I feel The Ballad of Gay Tony achieves it. I know you said you don't want to buy the Episodes, but if you can find it cheap I suggest you do.

Thats what I've heard, even from people who were disappointed with the main game. I'd definitely think about picking it up if I found it cheap enough.

 

[Seanspeed]

Sorry for the double post....

 

[Dead Man]

One of the most polarising games this gen. I have been a huge fan of GTA since the original top down games, way back when, and I was massively hyped for GTAIV, it's what made me buy a current gen console.

But damn was I disappointed. Terrible interruptions to the flow of the game, horrible mission structure you could not interact with at all. Car physics that were like driving in treacle. No customisation options. No fun. It has great physics, they basically saved the game for me, along with the MP.

I think from now on, I'll be staying with R*SD for my day 1 buys, Midnight Club LA and RDR were brilliant.

Edit: Forgot to say, great OP, even if I don't agree with your conclusions, that is a wonderful post.

 

[CecilRousso]

I keep my copy of the game for PS3 just to be able to drive around the city, but I can´t really like the game because of the story and missions. I have tried 3-4 times now to summarize in words how I feel about those aspects of the game, but I can´t. They were just...........so bad. So bad.

One of the funniest thing with the game was following Tim Schafer's twitter while he was trying to beat the final mission. https://twitter.com/TimOfLegend/status/25382247046

Cred to OP for an impressive text about the game. I can´t agree with the missions, but yes, the game has some real good qualites that few other games has in terms of creating a believable game world.

 

[Jay Sosa]

GTA IV is spectacular fun if you have an imagination.

Huh?

What has to do the same shit over and over again (kill everyone and do it EXACTLY the way we want you to do it!) to do with imagination?

What has getting annoyed by your stupid friends every 3 seconds to do with imagination?

What has as shitty OST to do with imagination?

What has not getting rewarded for finding the hidden packages to do with imagination?

What has having a shitload of money and not be able to spend it to do with imagination?

What has the lack of bycycles and planes to do with imagination?


And besides the OST most of this isn't even an opinion but a fact.

I think you meant that you were only imagining that it's not a horrible sequel to GTA: SA, when it's maybe one of the worst follow ups to a great game ever (even Alundra 2 wasn't THAT dissapointing)

 

[1-D_FTW]

Huh?

What has to do the same shit over and over again (kill everyone and do it EXACTLY the way we want you to do it!) to do with imagination?

What has getting annoyed by your stupid friends every 3 seconds to do with imagination?

What has as shitty OST to do with imagination?

What has not getting rewarded for finding the hidden packages to do with imagination?

What has having a shitload of money and not be able to spend it to do with imagination?

What has the lack of bycycles and planes to do with imagination?


And besides the OST most of this isn't even an opinion but a fact.

I think you meant that you were only imagining that it's not a horrible sequel to GTA: SA, when it's maybe one of the worst follow ups to a great game ever (even Alundra 2 wasn't THAT dissapointing)

It means the story/mission structures in these games have always sucked. But if you want mindless destruction and a deviant-simulator, it's great fun. The physics, driving, great detail of world, and cop structure (all of which are vastly superior to the previous games) means I can easily play for a couple hours without accomplishing a single thing and have lots of fun (and more than a couple LOL moments). It's a fantastic sandbox for just being bad. The gameplay aspects are the things I care about. Now if people found the missions interesting in previous games, that's fine. But IMO they're horrible. So I care about the core elements of the sandbox. The core elements are vastly superior IMO.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

The driving is easily the best part about the game

yep, the best online arcade racer around - the next game needs cockpit views and wheel support.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Huh?

What has to do the same shit over and over again (kill everyone and do it EXACTLY the way we want you to do it!) to do with imagination?

What has getting annoyed by your stupid friends every 3 seconds to do with imagination?

What has as shitty OST to do with imagination?

What has not getting rewarded for finding the hidden packages to do with imagination?

What has having a shitload of money and not be able to spend it to do with imagination?

What has the lack of bycycles and planes to do with imagination?


And besides the OST most of this isn't even an opinion but a fact.

I agree with him. I couldn't have spent 100 hours in the game if there was nothing to do. Pick a random car, drive to a random place and there will be SOMETHING to do. Guaranteed. Whether it's a bit of geometry that you can use as a ramp/stunt tool, or a cool place to go on a rampage and create a defensive stronghold against the cops, etc etc. Or you could call Brucie and have a street race, go on a random date with a stranger, hop in a police car and find criminals, do an assassination mission...

I don't see the lack of planes and bikes as a big issue. Helicopters are still in the game which can lead to some great moments (what can you do in a plane that you can't in a helicopter, other than go slightly faster in the air?) and motorbikes are as fun as ever. You can do more on a motor powered bike than a pedal one easily.

Phone calls can be turned off using sleep mode. Are contacts calling you during the story missions annoying? Yes, but you just have to hit no and they go away quickly. Once you're done with missions there's no need to have your phone turned on at all.

And I see the pigeons as absolute filler and a hangover from the packages from the PS2 gen games. If it wasn't for those tedious things I absolutely would've gone for 100% - I wish they weren't there at all. Having no reward for that is a good thing in my eyes as it doesn't mean you feel compelled to search for them. Of course if that's your thing then it is a bit lame they don't reward you, I agree.

So, no, none of those things are facts at all really.

 

[Jay Sosa]

It means the story/mission structures in these games have always sucked. But if you want mindless destruction and a deviant-simulator, it's great fun. The physics, driving, great detail of world, and cop structure (all of which are vastly superior to the previous games) means I can easily play for a couple hours without accomplishing a single thing and have lots of fun (and more than a couple LOL moments). It's a fantastic sandbox for just being bad. The gameplay aspects are the things I care about. Now if people found the missions interesting in previous games, that's fine. But IMO they're horrible. So I care about the core elements of the sandbox. The core elements are vastly superior IMO.

I see what you're getting at but that makes it even more infuriating that even with all these improvements they somehow managed to fuck this up.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

There hasn't been a narrative experience this gen that's even come close to driving to Niko's apartment and then to the taxi stand.

That alone makes GTAIV one of my favorite games. Add to that the incredible world detail, the most subtly edited cutscenes ever in gaming, and the most friend-friendly multiplayer I've played and it's pretty easy to appreciate.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I agree with him. I couldn't have spent 100 hours in the game if there was nothing to do. Pick a random car, drive to a random place and there will be SOMETHING to do. Guaranteed. Whether it's a bit of geometry that you can use as a ramp/stunt tool, or a cool place to go on a rampage and create a defensive stronghold against the cops, etc etc. Or you could call Brucie and have a street race, go on a random date with a stranger, hop in a police car and find criminals, do an assassination mission...

I don't see the lack of planes and bikes as a big issue. Helicopters are still in the game which can lead to some great moments (what can you do in a plane that you can't in a helicopter, other than go slightly faster in the air?) and motorbikes are as fun as ever. You can do more on a motor powered bike than a pedal one easily.

Phone calls can be turned off using sleep mode. Are contacts calling you during the story missions annoying? Yes, but you just have to hit no and they go away quickly. Once you're done with missions there's no need to have your phone turned on at all.

And I see the pigeons as absolute filler and a hangover from the packages from the PS2 gen games. If it wasn't for those tedious things I absolutely would've gone for 100% - I wish they weren't there at all. Having no reward for that is a good thing in my eyes as it doesn't mean you feel compelled to search for them. Of course if that's your thing then it is a bit lame they don't reward you, I agree.

So, no, none of those things are facts at all really.

I don't know what the consensus is on Brucie, but I love that roided up Meathead. My favorite character in the game.

 

[Huggy]

Plays like crap because of the 3rd person camera which auto-corrects when you don't want it to and too little when it needs to.

They fixed almost all of that in RDR though (except this time you have auto-aiming even when it's set to expert. What the hell?).

 

[PetriP-TNT]

I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this game. I didn't finish it when it came out (didn't have time to play anything) but replayed it couple of months ago and it was incredible. Most "living" city in a game ever, I even loved just driving around and watching people do things.

And the phone calls aren't even a problem, I was actually suprised how seldom they were on my replaythrough.

There are people who actually enjoyed the driving in this game? How? What?

It actually takes time to learn how to drive properly in this game. I understand that not everyone is a fan of learning to do stuff but after you do it's even more amazing than in the previous games

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Might have to install GTA IV and get on it.

Rockstar absolutely smashed it.

 

[Jakoavain]

Oh dear, I really love this game. I still remember booting this up on release day and feeling the atmosphere of the game. I really liked the opening sequence where you drive around the town to Roman's "house".

The amount of content in this game was astounding. I loved just cruising around and finding random missions or just wreaking havoc on the streets.

Definitely a game that'll be one of the milestones of this gen.

 

[Dead Man]

It actually takes time to learn how to drive properly in this game. I understand that not everyone is a fan of learning to do stuff but after you do it's even more amazing than in the previous games

LOL, I could drive just fine in this game, it just wasn't fun to me. :lol

 

[Zeliard]

I wasn't as down on GTAIV as some others but I thought the two episodes were far, far more engaging than the insipid and self-contradictory Niko Bellic story. I played them through on PC and enjoyed them quite a bit. The characterization, particularly, was far superior.

And the driving felt fantastic in the games. How people wanted Saints Row's loose, box-on-wheels shit is beyond me.

 

[Requeim]

Probably the most overrated game of this generation

It's easily the most boring open-world game i have ever played

edit: also, it doesn't have half the soul of games like Vice City or Saints Row 2

 

[Kayhan]

The driving was a perfect level of realism for a non-racng sim game.

I hope they more or less keep it for the next game.

But I really miss the bikes from San Andreas....