RUMOR: NX more powerful than PS4, Splatoon/Mario Maker ports in development

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XenodudeX said:
what the shit does 14nm mean
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10⁻⁹ m (nanometer) litography.

Zalman said:
Just two more weeks until the investor meeting... Two... more... weeks...
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Less than that actually. Nintendo's FY 2015 Financial Results Briefing is tentatively scheduled for April 28, 2016 (JST), 09.00 or 10.00 AM JST. This corresponds to Pacific time:

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Poor yields needn't stop them at this rate. Predictions a year or 2 ago was for 16nm/14nm to ramp earlier.

Separate regional launches? Limited stock? I would be hardly surprised. Look at how they handled amiibo in the U.S. Or Wii, their last explosively selling hardware launch. Bring your 3DS and line up.
 
Schnozberry said:
They had ordered 20nm chips and then backed out of the orders long after a lot of equipment had been ordered at their foundries and R&D had taken place. It cost them something like $35 million dollars and they were forced to layoff a significant number of employees. I think it was 7% of their overall workforce if I remember correctly.
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Ohhh wow, now that must've been one shitshow in the office. Yikes.
 
Fourth Storm said:
Poor yields needn't stop them at this rate. Predictions a year or 2 ago was for 16nm/14nm to ramp earlier.

Split launch? Limited stock? I would be hardly surprised. Look at how they handled amiibo in the U.S. Or Wii, their last explosively selling hardware launch. Bring your 3DS and line up.
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Split launch and region limited releases seems all but guaranteed at this point. We've heard of this from multiple venues already.
 
bachikarn said:
What would the main hangup of Nintendo using a 14nm chip? Amount available?
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Thus far, APU's of the size that would be required for a games console have not been mass produced, and we have no idea what yields would be for a wafer containing those chips from Globalfoundries. It is very unlike Nintendo to pursue the bleeding edge of fabrication tech.
 
I see this has gone full WUST and people are already setting expectations that can only end up in disappointment. Don't do that to yourself.
 
XenodudeX said:
what the shit does 14nm mean
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When you hear people refer to things in nanometers with respect to computer technology, they are referring to half the average size between identical nodes in a transistor. Something with a smaller pitch uses newer technology and can have a larger number of transistors in the same size chip. It usually means the device is more efficient and powerful.

If Nintendo is using 14 nm chips, it means Nintendo is being more aggressive than normal and the NX will probably be a beast compared to the competition.
 
Fourth Storm said:
Poor yields needn't stop them at this rate. Predictions a year or 2 ago was for 16nm/14nm to ramp earlier.

Separate regional launches? Limited stock? I would be hardly surprised. Look at how they handled amiibo in the U.S. Or Wii, their last explosively selling hardware launch. Bring your 3DS and line up.
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If yields are poor limited stock wouldn't surprise me. Could be a Wii situation, but instead of being blindsided by demand they could just not have enough to put on shelves.
 
Dark Cloud said:
Ugh why is Nintendo doing this again?! -.-
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He's joking. It basicly means a smaller chip, which produces less heat and is more power efficient, but can also be more powerfull than previous gemerations. The whole chip industry is going to move to this new standard.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm no expert.
 
XenodudeX said:
what the shit does 14nm mean
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I'm not a tech guy, but if i understand it correctly, it's basically the "size" in which a chip can be fabricated. The smaller the chip, the less power it uses, the less heat it generates... also meaning it could be clocked higher as well (due to less heat) etc. Basically "honey-i-shrunk-the-CPU". Obviously, going smaller is always more complicated, but once the technology is there, there are basically only advantages. You could have newer more powerful architectures, that generate less heat and use less power, just because they are on a smaller fabrication process.
 
Plinko said:
I've got to stop reading this thread. My expectations are getting too high and I'm bound to be let down.
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635840477909462739-SMG-20151122-ads-af2-21.jpg
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Skittzo0413 said:
Thanks!

Patents don't always "build up" on top of each other. Typically there can be groups called "Patent Families" which all have a common or similar Specification, where the inventor is targeting a different set of Claims for each one. But not every Patent is part of this kind of family.

There are other cases where the Patents or Applications aren't explicitly related to each other in a "Family" but you can tell that they both came from the same Specification write-up. It's pretty much a way for inventors and Patent Attorneys to save time when they file multiple cases.
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Ah, perfect! Again, thank you! Keep your eyes peeled, especially on the main page. People are always posting up crazy and interesting patents, and you could be an asset!

ZOONAMI said:
That NX will actually make your junk smaller.
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Console shoots cold water confirmed!
 
I really hope it's is more powerful that the ps4 so they can get proper third party support but the main thing for me is getting the online service right.
 
MrBigBoy said:
He's joking. It basicly means a smaller chip, which produces less heat and is more power efficient, but can also be more powerfull than previous gemerations. The whole chip industry is going to move to this new standard.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm no expert.
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That's crazy. I see some saying they may not have enough produced by launch or something like that. Pretty cool if they use it. I wonder if this would be Kimishimas instead of Iwatas if they were to use it.

I've read some more and 10K is making my hype go through the roof with his "hehehe" response.
 
Fourth Storm said:
Poor yields needn't stop them at this rate. Predictions a year or 2 ago was for 16nm/14nm to ramp earlier.

Separate regional launches? Limited stock? I would be hardly surprised. Look at how they handled amiibo in the U.S. Or Wii, their last explosively selling hardware launch. Bring your 3DS and line up.
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I don't really understand how this all works but if 14nm gives them more power and better energy efficiency, it would seem dumb to not get it if it is about to ramp up significantly next year. Either delay the system (which I don't think is really an option) or do a limited release this year, and then release a lot more next year when yeilds get better.
 
Laevateinn said:
When you hear people refer to things in nanometers with respect to computer technology, they are referring to half the average size between identical nodes in a transistor. Something with a smaller pitch uses newer technology and can have a larger number of transistors in the same size chip. It usually means the device is more efficient and powerful.

If Nintendo is using 14 nm chips, it means Nintendo is being more aggressive than normal and the NX will probably be a beast compared to the competition.
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Ehhh that is extremely hard to believe. That sounds like they're trying to compete with the PS5, not the PS4
 
bachikarn said:
I don't really understand how this all works but if 14nm gives them more power and better energy efficiency, it would seem dumb to not get it if it is about to ramp up significantly next year. Either delay the system (which I don't think is really an option) or do a limited release this year, and then release a lot more next year when yeilds get better.
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It makes sense if all you care about is performance/watt. The big issue is price. Although node shrinks in the past have almost always brought with them a reduction in price, this jump from 28nm to 16nm/14nm has come with increased costs. Basically, even though you get more processors per wafer, there is something like a threefold rise in R&D costs and also additional layers/steps in the manufacturing process, which adds complexity and affects yields.

The question is if Nintendo "OK'd" 14nm finFET for the SoC a year or more back. And although the cost issue above is a major concern, could AMD's dire straights have boosted Nintendo's bargaining power?
 
Laevateinn said:
When you hear people refer to things in nanometers with respect to computer technology, they are referring to half the average size between identical nodes in a transistor. Something with a smaller pitch uses newer technology and can have a larger number of transistors in the same size chip. It usually means the device is more efficient and powerful.

If Nintendo is using 14 nm chips, it means Nintendo is being more aggressive than normal and the NX will probably be a beast compared to the competition.
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Not necessarily. It could be a smaller, more silent, less wattage, similarly powerful, or even a less powerful box
 
Eradicate said:
Ah, perfect! Again, thank you! Keep your eyes peeled, especially on the main page. People are always posting up crazy and interesting patents, and you could be an asset!
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Ha, thanks, I'll chime in when I can! Actually the SCD patent discussion is what compelled me to sign up to Gaf, since I realized I could definitely clarify a lot of what was going on.

bachikarn said:
I don't really understand how this all works but if 14nm gives them more power and better energy efficiency, it would seem dumb to not get it if it is about to ramp up significantly next year. Either delay the system (which I don't think is really an option) or do a limited release this year, and then release a lot more next year when yeilds get better.
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From my understanding, the main reason one would choose NOT to pursue 14nm at this point in time is because the yields are lower than were expected, meaning less chips are surviving the fabrication process, meaning the chips which do survive become that much more expensive.

Nintendo's philosophy has almost always been about using proven technology at generally lower prices to offer a lower priced product. While they definitely could have had a philosophical shift after the Wii U debacle, I would be pretty shocked if they went for a brand new technology which is showing relatively high failure rates and relatively high costs.

This is all assuming the NX comes this year, which, I sure hope is true. Otherwise Gaf will probably self destruct by next Spring.
 
I see absolutely no way Nintendo goes with 14nm chips. None.
 
How would 14nm affect the x86 rumor from earlier? If it was x86 I figured it would have been puma+ with GCN 1.2. Zen will be 14nm but there's no way that would be ready for this holiday, plus it would be significantly more powerful than XBO/PS4, which also doesn't jive with LCGeek's CPU performance info.

Could AMD make an APU with a 28nm CPU (puma+), and 14nm GPU (Polaris)? My assumption would be no, but wondering what some of the computer engineers in here have to say about that. I would think 14nm Polaris would sort of confirm a 14nm A72 soc, barring going with Zen after all.
 
double0cinco said:
How would 14nm affect the x86 rumor from earlier? If it was x86 I figured it would have been puma+ with GCN 1.2. Zen will be 14nm but there's no way that would be ready for this holiday, plus it would be significantly more powerful than XBO/PS4, which also doesn't jive with LCGeek's CPU performance info.

Could AMD make an APU with a 28nm CPU (puma+), and 14nm GPU (Polaris)? My assumption would be no, but wondering what some of the computer engineers in here have to say about that. I would think 14nm Polaris would sort of confirm a 14nm A72 soc, barring going with Zen after all.
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Yeah, Zen is supposedly 40% increase in IPC over excavator? That doesn't sound like LCGeek's description at all. How strong are these x86 rumors again? I'm going with Puma+ at the moment for sheer cost and easy ports (no technical excuses at least). If it is not ARM, we need to perhaps rethink all these predictions about a shared library.
 
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