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[Jocchan]

Has Nintendo shown any proof that they're willing to spend money on modern hardware? 3DS was the same old Nintendo (and hardware) as per usual.

Check my edit, the giveaway is not power. No way in hell they're dropping buttons for a tablet controller (with no analog stick) when they just added more (coincidentally, one analog stick) to a handheld already equipped with a touch screen.

 

[[Nintex]]

The french rumor makes no sense, if you're going with shader model 4.1 or so you'd need more RAM. Especially since 1080p has been 'confirmed' by IGN so 512 MB is out of the question. Seems to me that they got some nuggets and tried to make sense out of it by adding their own speculation.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Like this.

Raytracing, as a process, basically involves taking each pixel in a scene, bouncing it off every object in the scene and tracing its route back to the light sources in the scene. It gets vastly more computationally intensive each time you add another light, reflective surface, or especially refractive surface (eg water, glass). It also gets very computationally intense when dealing with ambient occlusion shadows and the edges of shadows.

But the upshot is... well, essentially, photorealism. It's heavily used in prerendered computer graphics (eg movies), but rarely used in videogames because... well... it takes a *lot* of time to render frames. Some "realtime preview" functions in rendering suites handle that by drastically reducing the resolution of areas that change while redrawing, but things like changing camera angles will basically force a full-frame redraw.

That's pretty incredible. Will that be realistic anytime in the near future?

 

[From The Dust]

Then should we lock this thread until Nintendo puts out a statement?

Whats wrong with conversation and speculation?

when threads get this long, the stupid comes out. then it's not fun anymore

 

[frankie_baby]

Also no multi touch on a big screen designed to be used with fingers, nah this is bollocks

 

[Jikagi]

Well i get it anyway for Mario and Zelda games alone ._.

Me too, that's what mainly matters. I don't like how the controller seems right now, but I guess we have to first see it.

 

[marc^o^]

Nintendo is in a risky position. Not sure core gamers want to give Nintendo a second chance.

About the technology race, Nintendo may be in a good position though. Better specs than a PS3 would mean multiplatform titles would run best than on current HD consoles.

Microsoft and Sony are not likely to release a slightly enhanced version of their hardware to match Nintendo performances. If they release a new console, they will need to offer a significant leap to justify the upgrade to their installed base.

I could be wrong, but I expect few studios will be able to provide games fully capitalizing on real next gen hardware in decent timeframes. I believe most games in the next few years will still be based on current frameworks, with increased framerates and shaders.

Current HD consoles are low priced, are still selling extremely well, and will continue to get support for years to come. So whether Microsoft and Sony release a new console within 3 years or not, Nintendo will likely get most multiplatform games this time. And they will rely on their eye candy franchises in HD to make their userbase upgrade from the wii.

 

[Mojojo]

porting current xbox 360 titles to the Café should be very easy

I don't see how it would fix the problem of 3rd parties not selling on Nintendo consoles, if their answer is to do Xbox 360 ports....*sigh*

 

[Vagabundo]

The article doesn't say anything about the size or form of the device, really. A 6" screen will have very different forms depending on its aspect ratio.

A screen layered on top of a current wiimote would be around 6" diagonal, I think...I don't have one in front of me, but it works out around 5.9 something inches, based on dimensions off the web. Kind of uncanny if accurate.

That wouldn't jive with a d-pad and buttons though. It would have to be significantly longer.

 

[Door2Dawn]

There is no reason why this thing shouldn't be way more powerful the 360.

 

[wsippel]

It's always been called the Sensor Bar and it makes perfect sense. It'd be incredibly easy and cheap to jam a few IR lights onto anything.

And to play Wii games, you tape that touchscreen controller monstrosity on top of your flatscreen TV? Instead of just using a small, tried and true, dirt cheap regular sensor bar?

 

[gofreak]

The french rumor makes no sense, if you're going with shader model 4.1 or so you'd need more RAM.

Why?

Also no multi touch on a big screen designed to be used with fingers, nah this is bollocks

Again, the article doesn't actually say the thing is 'big'.

The Wiimote is 6" diagonal, as far as I know...so a 6" screen doesn't necessarily imply a 'big' controller.

No multitouch wouldn't be hugely detrimental vs the current wiimote if physical d-pad but trigger is present. In a regular wiimote-ish configuration with two hands your left thumb over a d-pad means your right thumb will be using no more than one other button at a time, usually - one other input at a time.

 

[Akai]

I don't see how it would fix the problem of 3rd parties not selling on Nintendo consoles, if their answer is to do Xbox 360 ports....*sigh*

The "problem" of third parties not selling on Nintendo consoles comes from lack of consumer trust when they shit the pool early on...

If third parties were smart and actually tried to make decent software from the get-go this wouldn't be an issue...

 

[badcrumble]

There is no reason why this thing shouldn't be way more powerful the 360.

If it's more powerful than the PS3, it's also logically got to be more powerful than the 360, so yeah.

 

[Kosma]

I don't see how it would fix the problem of 3rd parties not selling on Nintendo consoles, if their answer is to do Xbox 360 ports....*sigh*

3rd parties will never be a huge part of Nintendo lineup, unless Nintendo stops making games. This has been the case since the n64.

 

[Jarmel]

Also no multi touch on a big screen designed to be used with fingers, nah this is bollocks

Oh wow this is an excellent point. That would mean you couldn't use a joystick(or whatever the touch equivelant is) and hit buttons like X or Y on the screen at the same time.

That list has to be fake. It has to be. This would without any doubt be the worst designed controller of all time.

 

[From The Dust]

just make the tablet part 3.5" to 4" and with standard controls (2 thumbsticks, d-pad, 4 face buttons, etc)

 

[NemesisPrime]

Like this.

Raytracing, as a process, basically involves taking each pixel in a scene, bouncing it off every object in the scene and tracing its route back to the light sources in the scene. It gets vastly more computationally intensive each time you add another light, reflective surface, or especially refractive surface (eg water, glass). It also gets very computationally intense when dealing with ambient occlusion shadows and the edges of shadows.

But the upshot is... well, essentially, photorealism. It's heavily used in prerendered computer graphics (eg movies), but rarely used in videogames because... well... it takes a *lot* of time to render frames. Some "realtime preview" functions in rendering suites handle that by drastically reducing the resolution of areas that change while redrawing, but things like changing camera angles will basically force a full-frame redraw.

TBH photorealism is a moving target in computer graphics. Raytracing certainly isn't the end. You need to apply a shitload of other effects to generate an image that the human brain will interpret as photorealistic and a moving image, like games, it gets even trickier. Some effects can be dumped (shadows for example have minimal effect in some scenes) while others must be boosted (correct lights).

Anyway.. slightly OT here. IMHO next gen console devs should really start focusing on procedural generated stuff instead of pretty pictures. This can really expand games and reduce workload. Hopefully these consoles will have enough power.

 

[King of the Potato People]

The Wii remote is my favourite; not once did I find it a chore to use. Metroid Prime Trilogy + Wii remote = gaming heaven. Nintendo can do whatever they wish with the controller, I’ll probably still enjoy it.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The problem I have with the rumoured specs above is simple:

On the one hand, we have anonymous sources talking about "Nintendo doing it right" and "no gimmicks". On the other, we have a site saying that this thing is basically going to be an Xbox 360+ with a fucking tablet controller.

I don't see how the two stances can co-exist.

Is it at all possible that - just as with early rumours about Tegra for the 3DS - there have been several prototypes floating about, and that some up-to-date sources have the most recent or final kit, while others are still talking about something being mooted last year or earlier?

 

[[Nintex]]

Why?

If we 'assume' Nintendo's RAM is a shared CPU/GPU pool like the Xbox 360, they need more RAM to get any sort of leverage out of their 'extra power'. I could see Nintendo cheap out on the CPU but if they're going this route they'll invest in RAM and the GPU. The lack of RAM has bitten them in the ass so many times that I doubt they'll cut costs on that ever again.

 

[offshore]

I don't see how it would fix the problem of 3rd parties not selling on Nintendo consoles, if their answer is to do Xbox 360 ports....*sigh*

But this is the thing. If the experience is significantly better on the Nintendo console than on 360 and PS3, it could work; people buy 360 versions over PS3 versions for a reason.

But then is having a console full of multiplat ports that run better really your big selling point?

There's something we're missing here. The port thing is probably additive.

 

[Sadist]

I'll just go with the EDGE rumours thanks

 

[Barrett2]

Yeah I think people are getting too hung up on the "tablet" idea. The controller could still look very normal, with normal buttons, a reasonable size, and still have a 4" wide screen on it.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Then should we lock this thread until Nintendo puts out a statement?

Whats wrong with conversation and speculation?

Conversation and speculation is not the same as getting irate and negative about something that no one has information about.

 

[gofreak]

And to play Wii games, you tape that touchscreen controller monstrosity on top of your flatscreen TV? Instead of just using a small, tried and true, dirt cheap regular sensor bar?

No there'd be an ir camera on the TV tracking the controller.

That wouldn't jive with a d-pad and buttons though. It would have to be significantly longer.

Depends what 'other buttons' there are or are not. Plus there is plenty of real estate between the d-pad and other buttons on the current wiimote that could be used for touch input, in a two-handed configuration anyway. If there's no 'A' button but just touch screen real estate under the d-pad, then the a button could be replaced by a configurable touch input.

If we 'assume' Nintendo's RAM is a shared CPU/GPU pool like the Xbox 360, they need more RAM to get any sort of leverage out of their 'extra power'. I could see Nintendo cheap out on the CPU but if they're going this route they'll invest in RAM and the GPU. The lack of RAM has bitten them in the ass so many times that I doubt they'll cut costs on that ever again.

There's no hard and fast rule though. It's not like you can't use SM4.x level instructions just because you don't have a certain amount of RAM, there's no fundamental incompatibility there. It also says 'at least 512MB' so who knows...

 

[grkazan12]

Yeah I think Nintex got it right. I mean some of their information sounds alright I guess , but the 512 MB is really weird in 2011. I mean can you even find 512 MB today and I don't think it would save that much more money instead of going with today's standards which are in the GB.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Has Nintendo shown any proof that they're willing to spend money on modern hardware? 3DS was the same old Nintendo (and hardware) as per usual.

Yes, 3DS is the same old Nintendo because it doesn't use a jiggahertz CPU that can play Battlefield 3 on "high" Let us ignore that it uses a 3D screen and a bunch of other features a handheld game system hasn't had before.

Hardcore will judge Nintendo purely by whether they put a CPU/GPU in a box that can play the latest PC games, and assume that Nintendo doesn't spend any money on R&D. I can guarantee you the 3DS was not cheap to R&D, just as the Wii was not cheap to devise with what was likely hellacious amounts of human biometric testing.

Personally, if modern PC graphics are the most important thing to ya, I would brace for massive disappointment when whatever this thing is gets revealed. It is obviously impossible that it'll not be some form of hardware upgrade over the Wii. I fully expect hardcore to deem it "mediocre, cheap, and lazy" when they see that it's also not what is considered state of the art.

On the other hand, it'll probably be affordable, and have a bunch of other features that people ignore while they're busy crying over the lack of DX11 support.

I think the main reason why these supposed leaks have generated so much controversy and premature excitement is that it shows what really matters to a large segment of gamers: just graphics. Rumor comes out that Nintendo is releasing game console superior to PS3 graphix, and the gaming world explodes.

 

[Jikagi]

I'll just go with the EDGE rumours thanks

What were the EDGE rumors? I'm not up to date with all these rumors.

 

[big_z]

So that you know, this rumor is bullshit.

fixed.

stupid nintendo rumors start up every year before E3. this year seems extra stupid.

 

[RockmanWhore]

I don't like the idea of the touch screen.on the pad It could be nice to manage your inventory in a RPG or a shooter, but it would destroy the immersion to switch from one screen to the other. It seems like a huge waste of battery to me. And we're talking about Nintendo here, so the screen would probably be super cheap.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Unless it can compete with what Microsoft and Sony have planned for next gen then count me out, no way I'm paying 200-300$ for 5 year old technology just because Nintendo wants to follow their own business model.

 

[Sidewinder]

If it's more powerful than the PS3, it's also logically got to be more powerful than the 360, so yeah.

That's a given, but he thinks it will be way more powerful than PS360. I guess we can all agree, that if they don't reiterate their control innovation à la Wii, equally or more powerful than PS360 just won't cut it. PS4/Xbox720 will probably come out in 2013 and make Wii2 look outdated by a huge margin.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Yeah I think people are getting too hung up on the "tablet" idea. The controller could still look very normal, with normal buttons, a reasonable size, and still have a 4" wide screen on it.

People are getting worked up about the "rumor" which states that the controller will have a 6" touch screen. It also says nothing about standard face buttons or analog sticks.

 

[Barrett2]

With the amount of R&D money they've spent the last few years, I would suspect this thing has at least one wacky, surprising part of it we aren't contemplating. Why would they need to spend a billion dollars on R&D just to produce an HD capable machine?

 

[Azelover]

This is BS.

 

[H_Prestige]

Screw you guys, this sounds amazing. Very glad to see them using a regular controller again.

 

[wsippel]

No there'd be an ir camera on the TV tracking the controller.

The rumored controller wouldn't be able to emulate a Wiimote, so that isn't an option. Also, if there's an IR camera sitting on your TV anyway, that's where you'd also put the IR diodes for BC - not in the controller.

 

[WillyFive]

I liked the Nintendo On.

 

[Interfectum]

I don't like the idea of the touch screen.on the pad It could be nice to manage your inventory in a RPG or a shooter, but it would destroy the immersion to switch from one screen to the other. It seems like a huge waste of battery to me. And we're talking about Nintendo here, so the screen would probably be super cheap.

Yeah. There should never, ever be a reason for me to take my eyes off the screen. Why the hell would anyone want to look down at their controller for anything? That seems so counter-intuitive.

 

[KAL2006]

But this is the thing. If the experience is significantly better on the Nintendo console than on 360 and PS3, it could work; people buy 360 versions over PS3 versions for a reason.

But then is having a console full of multiplat ports that run better really your big selling point?

There's something we're missing here. The port thing is probably additive.

I don't think any one will be switching from 360, people are tied to the console due to their Live accounts, they won't leave their freindslist, digital games, acheivements and etc. As for having better looking multiplatform games, that is most definitely happening, basically all multiplatform games would look as good as high end PC versions, but however that isn't Nintendo's trump card, that is a bonus, their trump card is what it always has been, Nintendo games, a next gen Mario, Metroid and etc will blow our minds. Nintendo are probably doing are smart move in releasing their next console way earlier than PS4/720. However once PS4/720 drop their Wii 2's graphics won't be the graphics monster as it was originally, but that doesn't matter as PS4/720 won't come out anytime soon.

EDIT: I expect MS and Sony to do damage control and say they think they don't need to release their next consoles, that they would rather do a significant leap from this gen and say "when we come out with our next console it will destroy Wii 2 graphics", basically kind of like how Sony was talking and saying wait for PS2 when DC was out.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Screw you guys, this sounds amazing. Very glad to see them using a regular controller again.

Huh?

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Hey guys, I hope I can get your attention on this.

The french website 01.net has posted perhaps what is the most complete story so far on the successor of the Wii. Link to the story (in french).

They have a very reliable source that previously told them about the specs of the Sony NGP.
Here are the bullet points. Most of them have already been reported by other sites, but here goes :

• the console is codenamed "Project Café"
• will be introduced at E3 2011
• architecture is very similar to the Xbox 360; the Café is a bit more powerful than the 360
• porting current xbox 360 titles to the Café should be very easy
• should be retro-compatible with GameCube and Wii games, and support all Wii peripherals
• Specs : CPU is custom IBM PowerPC with three cores, GPU should be an ATI from the R700 family, with a shader unit at version 4.1. Ram should be at least 512 Mb.
• the controller is a touch tablet, with moderate graphic output (appears to be sub-HD, so nothing comparable to an Ipad, for example.)
• controller specs : 6-inch screen, single touch (so no multitouch, it seems), front camera, acts as a wii sensor bar, has a d-pad, two bumpers, two triggers, possibly more.
• should be released in June of 2012 (for Japan ?), and holiday season (in the West ?)
• there is another big surprise they can't talk about just yet

I can do a full translation if you guys want, tell me what you think.

Hmmm....... I'm not sure what to say to all of this. I guess I'll have to see it to believe it like Wii. And surely it's more powerful then that.

 

[gofreak]

The rumored controller wouldn't be able to emulate a Wiimote, so that isn't an option.

As far as I can tell it would. The Wii API for pointing exposes a xy coordinate for where the wiimote is pointing. An external observer of a beacon-laden controller could do the same (along with other sensors inside the controller too, perhaps).

That it's producing this result in a different way wouldn't break compatibility. The games don't care how this data is arrived at.

 

[Dabanton]

Nintendo biggest mistake imo would be to try and step back into the graphics arena with Sony and MS that way leads a beating. The Wii's biggest success was to differentiate itself from those two.

 

[Jocchan]

fixed.

stupid nintendo rumors start up every year before E3. this year seems extra stupid.

Seriously, the more I read it the less likely it looks.
Only 512 MB of (I guess total) RAM with an R700? Still PowerPC *could* make sense for BC, but it doesn't seem very likely.
A 6 inch tablet is ridiculous, and so would be dropping physical buttons and analog stick(s) for a SINGLE TOUCH touchscreen. Because, you know, you only press one button at a time!
And don't get me started on the "sensor bar on the pad thing": the distance between the two groups of light needs to be the same as the Wii, and the sensor bar is quite large. I'm also pretty sure Iwata once said they did experiment with a camera on top of the TV and IR LEDs on each controller, and they had some issues... which are probably the reason why Move is using a large glowing ball: you're much more likely to have sources of IR light in the environment around you than next to your TV.
It makes no sense.

 

[BGBW]

Screw you guys, this sounds amazing. Very glad to see them using a regular controller again.

Great. Now my classic controller has disappeared because you have denied its existence. It's just like Mt. Kagero.

 

[1-D_FTW]

They need to go 360/PS3 power level in order to secure ports, and keep the developer budgets within reasonable limits.

Doing anything crazy hardware vise is just plain stupid. Especially since Nintendo could produce the machine at an extremely low cost and launch at 250 if they wanted to.

Except the other rumors are stating this is Nintendo's attempt to woo back the hardcore crowd. This is going to woo who?

PC gamers who already play at 1080P and high AA/AF?

360/PS3 gamers who've built up a huge friend's list for online gaming and aren't going to relocate easily?

If all they're going to do is match 360, nobody has any motivation to buy this thing (aside from the normal supporters who buy solely for Nintendo exclusives).

Making it more powerful doesn't have to raise jack. For instance, you could port over Battlefield 3 and have it running at 1080P/60fps/AA/AF vs sub 720/30fps. This wouldn't make it a single cent more expensive than the 360/PS3 version to develop, but would be an extremely compelling upgrade for the hardcore gamer who usually plays third parties on PS3/360.

 

[Akibastman]

This thing can have touch screens, power gloves, or even mind-controlled helmets, if Nintendo announce new Smash Bros, Mario Kart et Zelda on it, I will buy this thing.

shutupandtakemymoney.gif

 

[From The Dust]

The Wii remote is my favourite; not once did I find it a chore to use. Metroid Prime Trilogy + Wii remote = gaming heaven. Nintendo can do whatever they wish with the controller, I’ll probably still enjoy it.

Nintendo knows how to make comfortable controllers. as funky as the GCN was, the controller just melts in your hands

damn it last post