Wildstar75
Member
eastmen said:
And what I am saying is 2GB system ram is not enough. For next gen 4 GB of System RAM should be a minimum requirement, and ideally will need 6GB.
Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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And what I am saying is 2GB system ram is not enough. For next gen 4 GB of System RAM should be a minimum requirement, and ideally will need 6GB.
And your completely crazy if you don't think graphics were the main selling point and people weren't enthralled seeing Madden and Cod and epics demos running on HDTV's. I still remember my friends blown away by just watching Madden for the first time in HD. Their comments weren't I want that for the sweet game, it was I want those cool graphics and crisp image.DeaconKnowledge said:Let's be completely honest here - At the beginning of every generation the games always look like barely souped of versions of the last console's offerings and people still snap them up. Tech enthusiasts are obviously responsible for a good portion of early adoption, however most early sales are driven by gamers who want games.
This was Gun on 360 for perspective. You're not remembering properly if you think that people were buying the 360 en masse because the graphics at launch were blowing XBOX out of the water.
Your argrument seems to me to be that if Microsoft had made the 360 the near equivelent of the Xbox graphically and threw some new games on it it still would of enjoyed the same success in both the short and long term? If so you're crazy.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yes? This gen's consoles were way better than the older ones.Choke on the Magic said:
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
DeaconKnowledge said:Let's be completely honest here - At the beginning of every generation the games always look like barely souped of versions of the last console's offerings and people still snap them up. Tech enthusiasts are obviously responsible for a good portion of early adoption, however most early sales are driven by gamers who want games.
This was Gun on 360 for perspective. You're not remembering properly if you think that people were buying the 360 en masse because the graphics at launch were blowing XBOX out of the water.
To be fair, Gun was an up-port of the Xbox version. If I recall correctly, it's main SKU was the OG Xbox. It was also a multi system game as well.
I would use a 360 exclusive game if you want to go that route of comparison. PGR3 and Kameo looked pretty good at launch. I liked Perfect Dark as well in terms of graphics. I remember Quake 4 looking pretty good too (but that was on PC as well).
Plus the videos that were out of the upcoming games were pretty damn good as well if I remember correctly. I remembered being wowed by the graphics this could do.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Are there not rumors that the Nextbox will be running Windows 8?Orayn said:
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Eh, revisionist history. COD2 and Madden 06 were hardly visual showpieces, and even the better looking launch games (DOA4, PGR3, Kameo) weren't miles beyond Xbox 1. 360's first really impressive looking game imo was Oblivion (about half a year after launch), and it's first real show stopper was Gears of War (about a year after launch).Jonm1010 said:
H_Prestige
Banned
Doesn't that require an Intel or AMD cpu?Beam said:
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Why? Are all the games going to be 64 bit now?Wildstar75 said:
Wildstar75 said:
Why ? What is your reasoning ?
Remember the xbox 360 OS uses 32MB/s of ram. The whole system has 512 megs of ram. You are looking at 4 times the ram for just the cpu / OS as the whole xbox 360 has.
Your then looking at most likely 2GB of ram just for textures and the frame buffer vs once again 512 megs of ram total for the xbox 360
The xbox next or whatever doesn't need 6GB of system ram , its not running windows 7 or even windows 8. There is no need for such a huge amount of ram for this .
Having 2 gigs of system ram and 2 gigs of video ram would give them an 8 times increase in ram over the xbox 360 which compares well to the xbox 360s leap over the xbox which was also an 8 x increase .
For al lwe know they could go for 2 gigs system and 4 gigs vram.
Metalmurphy
Member
Wildstar75 said:
Nonsense. No game even on PC uses 6GB RAM, and that's with the PC OSes taking ALOT more ram then console OSes do. Console games will always require less ram and 6GB is too much.
2GB however might be too low, 4GB is more then enough though.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
ThatCrazyGuy said:
Perfect Dark and Kameo - Hope they show up.
Just for a little perspective here, particularly with Kameo:
SFA on GameCube.
My point? Insisting that these consoles must be behemoths to sell at launch is ludicrous. Launch games have never come close to realizing the potential of a console and they won't start with these next machines.
Vestal
Junior Member
Wildstar75 said:
How is it not enough? a console architecture is totally different from that of a PC. First off you need very little to run the actual OS, since everything in that console hardware wise is set in stone, and the software itself is fine tuned to run the bare minimum necessary to get the results they wnt.
I would say we will end up with 4GB unified GDDR5 ram. That will be more than enough to last 5-7 years.
Look at what Sony and MS have been able to do with less than 25% of that.
AbsoluteZero
Banned
sleepykyo said:
I thought that Halo 4 was announced for the 360...or was that just a massive assumption on everyone's part?
MesserWolf
Member
Although it is believable 2GB of RAM for a machine coming out in 1 year that has to last for at least 4-5 years running games @ 1080p is low.
3gb (doesn't have to be dual channel I guess) - 4 gb would be a million times better
3gb (doesn't have to be dual channel I guess) - 4 gb would be a million times better
DeaconKnowledge said:
http://www.gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/news/images/53192-1.jpg
Perfect Dark and Kameo - Hope they show up.
Just for a little perspective here, particularly with Kameo:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IVWzocG0d...44/s1600/Star-Fox-Adventures-Fox-Confused.jpg
SFA on GameCube.
My point? Insisting that these consoles must be behemoths to sell at launch is ludicrous. Launch games have never come close to realizing the potential of a console and they won't start with these next machines.
The point is not at launch but years into its life. Tablets and phones seem to double in spec every 18 months or so. What happens 3 or 4 years into the console cycle when tablets and phones have better graphics ?
We are 7 years in this gen and phones are just now catching up , however last gen we had very expensive consoles launch
DeaconKnowledge
Member
eastmen said:
The point wasn't that at all. You didn't read the beginning of this conversation.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
DeaconKnowledge said:
Perfect Dark and Kameo - Hope they show up.
Just for a little perspective here, particularly with Kameo:
SFA on GameCube.
My point? Insisting that these consoles must be behemoths to sell at launch is ludicrous. Launch games have never come close to realizing the potential of a console and they won't start with these next machines.
thats bollocks.
Just the fact that these games where hd was enough to sell them to anyone who had an hd tv.
Last gen games look like ass on most flatscreens.
Megadragon15
Member
Soul Calibur on Sega Dreamcast begs to differ. It was also, unfortunately, one of the best looking Dreamcast games even when they discontinued it two years later.DeaconKnowledge said:
lunchwithyuzo said:
Go put Madden on ps2 into a flat screen and look at it. Now go put Madden 06 into a hdtv on 360 and tell me there was no difference. Or better yet PGR or Kameo.
Graphics were and are a large part of the buzz that surrounds a consoles release. People purchases also werent solely on what was released at launch. The promise of much better games in 6 months to a year were just as big of sellers. And that buzz created is what pushes consumers into thinking an item i must have. Wii managed to break the mold and use it gimmick to create buzz but thats not repeatable IMO this coming gen. Kinect is alread out and so is move, so the next iterations arent going to carry the same wow factor and buzz all by themselves. They will need more to do it.
lemon__fresh
Member
eastmen said:
Ummmmm, why is that?
sleepykyo said:
Under this theoretical scenario I've been arguing where Microsoft barely upgrades their graphics(which again I think is not going to happen, Microsoft WILL make a noticeable leap in graphics and sell their system largely on it). Yeah, why not. Whats the sense in Epic abandoning such a large install base when their game would only need a few minor downgrades to be sold on a system that has such a huge install base?
Halo 4 is coming to 360, but it's obviously going to work on the Next Xbox as well (why wouldn't there be backwards compatibility?).
Regarding graphics, the jump from the Xbox --> Xbox 360 was massive and it really isn't surprising developer didn't get anywhere near to max potential on Day 1 (I remember playing Dead or Alive...). The next Xbox's graphics will already look great, because the jump won't be as big imo.
Regarding graphics, the jump from the Xbox --> Xbox 360 was massive and it really isn't surprising developer didn't get anywhere near to max potential on Day 1 (I remember playing Dead or Alive...). The next Xbox's graphics will already look great, because the jump won't be as big imo.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Jonm1010 said:
How can you say that Wii broke the mold and succeeded, but any subsequent next gen consoles that do a similar thing will fail? Why would this happen?
deathkiller
Member
Soul Calibur was released 9 months after the Dreamcast Japanese launch.Megadragon15 said:
I could see them doing this with halo4 being designed for 360 but featuring next gen add ons like real time reflections, high quality shadows and AA/AF. I can't see someone actually designing a next gen game and downgrading it to run on 360. I'm hoping next gen level design and gameplay won't allow it.Jonm1010 said:
dragonelite
Member
Ubermatik said:
Why not 6 cores?
Should make it a bit more future proof and for me as a pc gamer a bit better for future chips containing more then 4 cores.
Wildstar75
Member
Why is 2GB not enough?
Two reasons.
1) This is supposed to stay relevant for 6-10 years. Portable tech are getting significant upgrades every few years. Those things will be able to stream your game to your Big TV.
2) For many generations, it was all about the Graphics. I still think they can get better...but it didnt make a difference this generation. The big success early on was the Wii, with a new way to play, that made games more accessible. Nintendo threw it all away with lousy game lineups and insufficient 3rd party tools. I believe that the next big thing in games, is not graphics and not motion sensing, but AI. Like motion control, it can make games more accessible. But unlike motion control, advanced ai can appeal to hardcore crowd too. And game changing AI, will needs a lot of memory for the Models unless its all farmed out to the cloud. The kinds of things I am talking about need at least 2GB of memory on their own to offer anything remotely interesting.
Two reasons.
1) This is supposed to stay relevant for 6-10 years. Portable tech are getting significant upgrades every few years. Those things will be able to stream your game to your Big TV.
2) For many generations, it was all about the Graphics. I still think they can get better...but it didnt make a difference this generation. The big success early on was the Wii, with a new way to play, that made games more accessible. Nintendo threw it all away with lousy game lineups and insufficient 3rd party tools. I believe that the next big thing in games, is not graphics and not motion sensing, but AI. Like motion control, it can make games more accessible. But unlike motion control, advanced ai can appeal to hardcore crowd too. And game changing AI, will needs a lot of memory for the Models unless its all farmed out to the cloud. The kinds of things I am talking about need at least 2GB of memory on their own to offer anything remotely interesting.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
In all likelihood, the CPU is going to be latency limited rather than bandwidth limited.lemon__fresh said:
H_Prestige
Banned
Portable devices use shit RAM and they have no VRAM. No next gen console is going to be overtaken by a bloody phone.
eso76
Member
lunchwithyuzo said:
kameo and pgr3 were miles beyond xbox
Specs sound very good to me.
2gb sound fishy, but i am sure the techeads at loop (or was it infinity ?) know what they're doing.
Then again, hadn't it been for Cliffy, the 360 would have launched with 256MB, so maybe they don't know what they're doing.
Maybe it can be expanded ? ;O
DeaconKnowledge said:
Well let me clarify, it succeeded in the short term but its model wasnt enough to sustain software sales and long term viability. Nintendo even admits this with its abnonment of the wii. 3rd parties abandoned it in favor of more powerful consoles. Weak graphics and a gimmick are a nice plan for short term gains and long term failure if we are looking at the Wii. O even the kinect(what is selling more right now, upgrades to Madden, Cod, elder scrolls or kinect games?) And before you say Wii is still selling, yes, but if WiiU is gimped in comparison to the other 2 do you really think it will somehow miraculosly attract more third parties? Or do you think it will attract less and less with time and slowly become obsolete much quicker?
Now if all three colluded and made new consoles that barely jump graphically. XBOX would probably do fine. However I think the buzz around the new consoles would be weak and I think it would not see the same sort of early console sales as this generation.
dragonelite
Member
eso76 said:
Not sure i think i should watch what bf3 uses for System ram i know for ultra it uses 1.3 gig of vram one of the devs said on twitter.
So 2 gig of system ram plus 3 gig of vram 1.5gig on each card.
The RAM on the 360 is also shared aside from the 10MB embedded DRAM for the GPU.
That means the sound playing, file unpacking, temporary number crunching, texture loading, dashboard background running, and other things processing all occur in 512MB.
In other words, you can't look at the specs like you were looking at a PC. PC elitists would look at this and say, "Oh, that's enough RAM to run Windows XP/7," when the Xbox 360 runs a lot of games that look as good as games running on a low-budget gamer's PC.
That means the sound playing, file unpacking, temporary number crunching, texture loading, dashboard background running, and other things processing all occur in 512MB.
In other words, you can't look at the specs like you were looking at a PC. PC elitists would look at this and say, "Oh, that's enough RAM to run Windows XP/7," when the Xbox 360 runs a lot of games that look as good as games running on a low-budget gamer's PC.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
claviertekky said:
The original xbox had 64mb, 8 times less than the 360. The time between the releases was what, 5 years? Now at 7 years (minimum), you're okay with 4 times?
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