Support NeoGAF

[flkraven]

Wow. It's crazy that MS might be losing Snap in order to get the 8% bump. The funny thing is that I was planning on buying an XB1 over the next 2 months, and the reason I am being pushed to buying one is for Snap/Skype functionality. If they lose that, they lose my sale for the foreseeable future

 

[Sobriquet]

I'm not sure where all of the speculation that they're ditching Snap for this is coming from. The OP only mentions Kinect use.

 

[Krakatoa]

I can't see snap going. Its one of the main talking/selling points of the Xbox one.

What's probably happened is that they have optimized the OS, which has resulted in the OS using less resources, so they are going to give these resource back to devs.

 

[Bgamer90]

I'm not sure where all of the speculation that they're ditching Snap for this is coming from. The OP only mentions Kinect use.

Snapped Video Skype (w/ kinect camera) --> Video Snapping (at least that's how I made the connection).

Again though, we are all just speculating on how (or if) certain things will need to be cut when playing games that don't need kinect motion.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Xbone pre-rumor


Xbone post-rumor


PS4


Wii U


PC

This is probably the most accurate use of DBZ to describe the consoles. Except the PC one. Who the fuck is that?

 

[Finalizer]

I'm not sure where all of the speculation that they're ditching Snap for this is coming from. The OP only mentions Kinect use.

I think it's just assumed to fall under the "video" part mentioned in the tweets. Presumably, snap has to be using some sort of GPU to be displaying video and the like.

This is probably the most accurate use of DBZ to describe the consoles.

WiiU would have to be below Super for that to be accurate. Also, >Anything other than PS3 being Cell

 

[jcm]

Is this actually confirmed? I feel like some of the GAF insiders don't always make it clear when they are predicting as opposed to when they are reporting.

I find it difficult to believe they are releasing the entire reservation this quickly, all in one fell swoop.

 

[Sobriquet]

Snapped Video Skype (w/ kinect camera) --> Video Snapping (at least that's how I made the connection).

Again though, we are all just speculating on how (or if) certain things will need to be cut when playing games that don't need kinect motion.

That's basically what mort is saying, though. If a game doesn't use Kinect motion, then they can use that 8% for powah.

Instead of the box requiring that 8% reserve, even for games like Titanfall that don't use Kinect at all, they will now be able to use those additional, previously unavailable, resources.

 

[ultratruman]

Snapped Video Skype (w/ kinect camera) --> Video Snapping (at least that's how I made the connection).

Again though, we are all just speculating on how (or if) certain things will need to be cut when playing games that don't need kinect motion.

Respawn have already definitively said that Titanfall won't support kinect.

 

[Wildarmsjecht]

This is probably the most accurate use of DBZ to describe the consoles. Except the PC one. Who the fuck is that?

From the last movie that came out:

Dragon Ball Z: Battle of the Gods

That character is Whis.

Movie was...O.K.

Back OT - If this is true, and it helps, then great. Now, however, future titles should not emulate these early titles with variable framerates in the 30s and resolutions in the 720-900p range. I don't expect parity of course, but any bit helps.

 

[BradC00]

Snapped Video Skype (w/ kinect camera) --> Video Snapping (at least that's how I made the connection).

Again though, we are all just speculating on how (or if) certain things will need to be cut when playing games that don't need kinect motion.

you can't snap skype so...

edit: unless you are talking about having video (twitch, tv, whatever) snapped into skype. then you can do that.

 

[Bgamer90]

Respawn have already definitively said that Titanfall won't support kinect.

Yeah I know. I watched the VGX (unfortunately haha).

I was referring to Beast talking about any game that uses the extra 8% in the future (after Titanfall).

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Somebody please put this into layman terms.

EDIT: I'm guessing this means devs get more GPU percentage to work with? So better graphics (than there were originally), even if still not as good as PS4?

How big would the difference be now, theoretically?

Now it'll be what everyone thought it was before they discovered 10% was reserved.

Both console OS's right now are probably reserving a lot more then they currently need in the name of future proofing.

If true I think MS is tossing out its OS roadmap and the unused system reservation in favour of the power boost. They will just optimise what they got.

Which they should do. They should make the best of the hardware they have.

 

[Bgamer90]

you can't snap skype so...

Not yet. Stated that it's coming soon.

 

[Minions]

you can't snap skype so...

True... but...

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/apps/skype-faq#708a8a05302c481cb4cf36524d91eec1

Can I use snap with Skype?

The initial release of Skype for Xbox One does not support snapping Skype to another running application; however, we are working to release this in a future update.

If you’re having a conversation in Skype and want to pin another application to the screen, you can do the following:

Go to the Home screen.
Select the Snap option in the middle of the screen.
Press the A button to choose an app you want to snap.
Once your choice is made, press A again. You should now have Skype running on the left side of the screen, and your desired app running on the right side.
If you want to unsnap the application, simply say “Xbox, unsnap.”

 

[GavinGT]

you can't snap skype so...

It's something they intended to have in at launch, though. And last we heard it's still coming.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

I'm not sure where all of the speculation that they're ditching Snap for this is coming from. The OP only mentions Kinect use.

Yeah I was just wondering the same thing. How did snap get into this?

 

[B.O.O.M]

This is good news. Curious to see the performance improvement

 

[Snakeyes]

This is probably the most accurate use of DBZ to describe the consoles. Except the PC one. Who the fuck is that?

Whis from the latest movie. He's the strongest character in the series and is a universal-level being, AFAIK. The other characters (consoles) won't catch up to him no matter what.

 

[TheRealTalker]

But the freed up % could of been reserved correct?... As in it currently was in limbo if MS ever wanted to use for the OS

 

[RedEther]

From what I read this sounds good hopefully it happens.

 

[Snakeyes]

WiiU would have to be below Super for that to be accurate. Also, >Anything other than PS3 being Cell

Nah. Wii U (Gohan) is HD (SSJ) but late to the party by an arc or two.

 

[ironcreed]

Every little bit will help. It's better than nothing.

 

[Nocturno999]

Sounds more like "The Potential" card. Not much different from "Power of the Cloud".

 

[SEGAvangelist]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

Remembered this article. Seems like they intended at this time to keep full functionality at least.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Kinect getting ejected out of the airlock. Kinect-less SKU incoming.

Like everyone expected to happen.

 

[chadskin]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

Remembered this article. Seems like they intended at this time to keep full functionality at least.

"Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode," Microsoft technical fellow Andrew Goossen told us.

Cutting the whole 8% video fraction would essentially kill the snap feature*, though.

*If devs choose to.

 

[Bgamer90]

Kinect getting ejected out of the airlock. Kinect-less SKU incoming.

Like everyone expected to happen.

Don't see how this news has any relation to that.

The games that don't use kinect motion control would still come out for the Xbox One regardless. Also, based on this news, games that use kinect voice controls would still have the ability to get the 8%.

 

[GavinGT]

Cutting the whole 8% video fraction would essentially kill the snap feature, though.

But the article explains why that's not the case.

 

[hawk2025]

Don't see how this news has any relation to that.

The games that don't use kinect motion control would still come out for the Xbox One regardless.

Well, but the tradeoffs for devs becomes more complicated -- that is, they are more likely to drop it altogether.

The narrative on the whole reason why Kinect had to be included in all boxes is that all devs can make use of it. But the same logic can be applied for the reserved power. If it will go to waste if not used, devs are more likely to incorporate it. If they can use that instead to get their game running that much better and that much closer to other versions, I imagine that Kinect implementation is the first thing to go.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

But the article explains why that's not the case.

Yup.

"The current reservation provides strong isolation between the title and the system and simplifies game development - strong isolation means that the system workloads, which are variable, won't perturb the performance of the game rendering. In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."

Once you get over the initial surprise that the background system takes up quite so much GPU time in the first place, the notion of being able to give developers access to this resource while not compromising functionality may sound rather like having your cake and eating it, but Microsoft points to particular aspects of the GPU hardware that make this scenario possible.

"In addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes," Goossen pointed out. "The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills 'holes' in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the compute units."

 

[Chobel]

Yup.

The 'holes" depend on the game. Not all games will have the same "holes".

Wait, wait, I'm confused. Is this something that will affect all consoles (like through a patch), or is it something only future Xbox One consoles will have?

All consoles.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Wait, wait, I'm confused. Is this something that will affect all consoles (like through a patch), or is it something only future Xbox One consoles will have?

 

[SwiftDeath]

Wait, wait, I'm confused. Is this something that will affect all consoles (like through a patch), or is it something only future Xbox One consoles will have?

Will affect all XB1's one way or the other if this is true

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Don't see how this news has any relation to that.

The games that don't use kinect motion control would still come out for the Xbox One regardless. Also, based on this news, games that use kinect voice controls would still have the ability to get the 8%.

Just follow the steps.

They first say Kinect is required to be plugged in at all times.
Whoops, people don't like that that so it gets changed and go as far as advertising that fact.

The big games are not using Kinect. Titanfall etc..

Now if this turn out to be true it's even more of a lack of need for Kinect because they are taking away resources dedicated to the Kinect.

People like paying less, they can't lower the price significantly and keep Kinect in the box. It's going to happen no matter how much some of you keep your blinders on.

 

[StoopKid]

Xbone pre-rumor


Xbone post-rumor


PS4


Wii U


PC

Now now we all know Wii u =

 

[Bgamer90]

Well, but the tradeoffs for devs becomes more complicated -- that is, they are more likely to drop it altogether.

The narrative on the whole reason why Kinect had to be included in all boxes is that all devs can make use of it. But the same logic can be applied for the reserved power. If it will go to waste if not used, devs are more likely to incorporate it. If they can use that instead to get their game running that much better and that much closer to other versions, I imagine that Kinect implementation is the first thing to go.

Again though, the 8% is based on kinect video. Voice is still there and has to be for the UI.

It seems like games that use kinect voice functions would still be able to receive that extra power.

 

[chadskin]

But the article explains why that's not the case.

Yup.

How do you maintain "full system functionality" when there's supposedly only a 2% voice reservation left? Serious question.

 

[DR3AM]

Major Nelson " Looks like I’ve got a a busy morning coming up tomorrow "

 

[Sobriquet]

Major Nelson " Looks like I’ve got a a busy morning coming up tomorrow "

He's probably referring to tomorrow morning's game announcement.

 

[hawk2025]

Again though, the 8% is based on kinect video. Voice is still there and has to be for the UI.

It seems like games that use kinect voice functions would still be able to receive that extra power.

Right, but voice functions are a tiny sliver of what Kinect can supposedly do. I'm naturally talking about the more involved applications that are not a glorified microphone.

Major Nelson " Looks like I’ve got a a busy morning coming up tomorrow "

There will be a game announcement tomorrow.

 

[Jack Scofield]

All consoles.

Will affect all XB1's one way or the other if this is true

That's what I was thinking, but then I saw a number of posts from people complaining about this causing a fragmentation within Xbox One owners. I don't see how this would cause fragmentation if it affects everyone equally.

 

[Sobriquet]

That's what I was thinking, but then I saw a number of posts from people complaining about this causing a fragmentation within Xbox One owners. I don't see how this would cause fragmentation if it affects everyone equally.

Nah, those posts about fragmentation were referring to releasing an updated Xbone with more powerful internals, which obviously can't happen.

 

[Dire]

Wait, wait, I'm confused. Is this something that will affect all consoles (like through a patch), or is it something only future Xbox One consoles will have?

It will be something all consoles will have, but it sounds like something that only titles that specifically utilize will be able to take advantage of. My interpretation of the offered details would translate in [kind of] layman to: By default the XBone will take 10% of the GPU and automatically handle the system:game rendering balance. If a developer choose to they can manually balance the system:game rendering balance resulting in an up to 8% performance gain at times when the system side is idle.

What I don't understand is why the XBone can't dynamically rebalance the 8% as needed anyhow meaning 0 developer work needed to get some secret sauce as well as retroactive application to earlier titles.

 

[SwiftDeath]

That's what I was thinking, but then I saw a number of posts from people complaining about this causing a fragmentation within Xbox One owners. I don't see how this would cause fragmentation if it affects everyone equally.

A couple members suggested that seeing how weak XB1's GPU is with or without the reservations being lifted, MS should release a new revision of the Xbox One with a stronger GPU and thus everyone responded with the standard notion that such a move would fragment Xbox One development. It was a little off topic tbh

What I don't understand is why the XBone can't dynamically rebalance the 8% as needed anyhow meaning 0 developer work needed to get some secret sauce as well as retroactive application to earlier titles.

As the eurogamer article and the fact of 3 OS's would suggest, it sounds like there are strong software partitions between the power allocations for whatever reason and that the rebalancing you're suggesting likely requires a major overhaul on how the 3 OS's work with each other among other things

 

[Dire]

And minuscule little correction. This wouldn't provide up to an 8% boost in performance. It would actually result in an almost 9%. Right now developers have access to 90% of the GPU. Giving access to a raw 8% more there would be a gain of 8/90 or an 8.89% gain.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Maybe announce that titanfall beta

 

[ultratruman]

Major Nelson " Looks like I’ve got a a busy morning coming up tomorrow "

Doubt it's related to this, Nelson has been very determined to not give potentially controversial Xbox One news oxygen since the system launched. That stuff just harshes his mellow, man.

 

[Sobriquet]

And minuscule little correction. This wouldn't provide up to an 8% boost in performance. It would actually result in an almost 9%. Right now developers have access to 90% of the GPU. Giving access to a raw 8% more there would be a gain of 8/90 or an 8.89% gain.

It's not 8% of 90%, it's an additional 8%.

 

[chadskin]

And minuscule little correction. This wouldn't provide up to an 8% boost in performance. It would actually result in an almost 9%. Right now developers have access to 90% of the GPU. Giving access to a raw 8% more there would be a gain of 8/90 or an 8.89% gain.

From the Eurogamer article:

Just some clarification here - does the release of Kinect and app reservation add to the overall 1.31TF of GPU compute power in Xbox One? The answer there is no - that 1.31TF is the theoretical limit of the GPU before reservations.

So, developers get access to 8% of the reserved 10%, or 98% of the GPU performance.