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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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NoLootBoxDev

NoLootBoxDev

Member


Seth Meyers Omg GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers


Give weapons to the Civilians who I hope will rise against Putler if he tries some funny shit in Belarus.
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I had to ignore the thread, it is too much for me. I mean that about banning the game

But boycotts don't work and right now it is especially fucked up to demand this, because people are angry about that wizard game and feel like it is a same thing, the stupid culture war. Because soy left has to be hyperbolic, they made it seems like there is some genocide of them, where when there is actual genocide, people can't tell the difference.
 
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Kerotan

Kerotan

Member
So not only does it look like Bakhmut will survive the anniversary but it will also make it to march as well. Pleasantly surprised. Wouldn't it be great if Russia attacks petered out over the next 2 months or so and it never falls at all but probably wishful thinking.

Speaking of wishful thinking I'm praying come summer Ukrainian offensive they can take Svatove and Melitopol. Not sure if it's even possible but I don't think my heart could take another year seeing Melitopol, Berdyansk and Kherson oblast occupied by Russia.

The sooner Crimea is cut off the better. Took long it's been a Safe haven for Russia to provide supplies from the south.
 
Cyberpunkd

Cyberpunkd

Member
Raistandantulus said:
I really liked that he took a moment to address that Russia feels unsafe over borders grand strategy that was being peddled and plainly call it bullshit. How that idea gained any traction to begin with is a wonder.
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It’s an excuse, same with “we need to invade you to protect fellow Orthodox Christian’s” that Russia was running with for the last few hundred years.
 
Bitmap Frogs

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Kerotan said:
So not only does it look like Bakhmut will survive the anniversary but it will also make it to march as well. Pleasantly surprised. Wouldn't it be great if Russia attacks petered out over the next 2 months or so and it never falls at all but probably wishful thinking.

Speaking of wishful thinking I'm praying come summer Ukrainian offensive they can take Svatove and Melitopol. Not sure if it's even possible but I don't think my heart could take another year seeing Melitopol, Berdyansk and Kherson oblast occupied by Russia.

The sooner Crimea is cut off the better. Took long it's been a Safe haven for Russia to provide supplies from the south.
Click to expand...

Fortress Bahkmut has outlasted Stalingrad.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Raistandantulus said:
I really liked that he took a moment to address that Russia feels unsafe over borders grand strategy that was being peddled and plainly call it bullshit. How that idea gained any traction to begin with is a wonder.
Click to expand...

Of course it's BS. But it's part of the Russian mentality, and has been so for centuries.
And it's something we have to take into account, when dealing with Russia.
 
CharmingCharlie

CharmingCharlie

Member
M1chl said:
I had to ignore the thread, it is too much for me. I mean that about banning the game

But boycotts don't work and right now it is especially fucked up to demand this, because people are angry about that wizard game and feel like it is a same thing, the stupid culture war. Because soy left has to be hyperbolic, they made it seems like there is some genocide of them, where when there is actual genocide, people can't tell the difference.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is fair to equate the atomic game situation with the harry potter game situation. They are totally different, the Atomic game contains clear examples of Russian propoganda and insults to the people of Ukraine. So there are clear "content" issues with the Atomic Power game and it can be classed as Russian Propoganda. However with the Harry Potter game the situation is different, people are not calling for the game to be banned because of the actual game but because they don't like some of the shit JK Rowling said which in normal common sense reality has bugger and all to do with the damn game.

I personally think Atomic Heart should be banned from sale, not because the developers are Russian but because the game has clear examples of Pro-russian and anti-Ukraine content. It is russian propoganda and I think we should have zero tolerance towards that kind of shit.

As for the situation in Ukraine, right now I don't know what to think of it, My heart hopes that Ukraine prevails but I know the west is not doing enough to help. It seems USA and Europe still do not get it. If Russia is not stopped NOW in Ukraine then they will keep on attacking countries till we see the Russian Horse and cart personal carrier trotting past the damn eiffel tower.
 
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M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
CharmingCharlie said:
I don't think it is fair to equate the atomic game situation with the harry potter game situation. They are totally different, the Atomic game contains clear examples of Russian propoganda and insults to the people of Ukraine. So there are clear "content" issues with the Atomic Power game and it can be classed as Russian Propoganda. However with the Harry Potter game the situation is different, people are not calling for the game to be banned because of the actual game but because they don't like some of the shit JK Rowling said which in normal common sense reality has bugger and all to do with the damn game.

I personally think Atomic Power should be banned from sale, not because the developers are Russian but because the game has clear examples of Pro-russian and anti-Ukraine content. It is russian propoganda and I think we should have zero tolerance towards that kind of shit.

As for the situation in Ukraine, right now I don't know what to think of it, My heart hopes that Ukraine prevails but I know the west is not doing enough to help. It seems USA and Europe still do not get it. If Russia is not stopped NOW in Ukraine then they will keep on attacking countries till we see the Russian Horse and cart personal carrier trotting past the damn eiffel tower.
Click to expand...
I probably said it wrong, I don't think that's in any shape or form comparable. I just think that in minds of gamers™ it sounds the same. I fully agree with you.

I also love the general "Marxism MARXISM" panic and then when Marx is literally on screen, it is all good.

Boycott is also more for a "consumer boycott" rather than some company ban. I am playing the game and this game isn't critique like Bioshock was, it is more like a celebration of great might of USSR.

Besides fuck, in few opening minutes, there are scene which shows you the area and there is one thing which stood up for me. There was some statue "which celebrate USSR win on Germans", the fuck you won, first you were with them and then west help you massively, to beat them. A lot of this could be stealth propaganda for average western consumer, which is why it is dangerous.

This conflict really shows what kind of damage USSR/ did not only Regionally, but world-wide.
 
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RAÏSanÏa

RAÏSanÏa

Member
winjer said:
Of course it's BS. But it's part of the Russian mentality, and has been so for centuries.
And it's something we have to take into account, when dealing with Russia.
Click to expand...
and contextualized, as insight into a source of misinformation used by leadership beaten into the Russian mentality of those that are barely given information about plumbing. Like cyberpunkd suggested, it can be considered with Russian Orthodox Symphonia. Perun's video explains how those unsafe feelings with geographical considerations aren't part of the current grand strategy with evidence showing decisions are being made above that psychology. It's a means for Russian leaders to exploit their own people and distract.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Raistandantulus said:
and contextualized, as insight into a source of misinformation used by leadership beaten into the Russian mentality of those that are barely given information about plumbing. Like cyberpunkd suggested, it can be considered with Russian Orthodox Symphonia. Perun's video explains how those unsafe feelings with geographical considerations aren't part of the current grand strategy with evidence showing decisions are being made above that psychology. It's a means for Russian leaders to exploit their own people and distract.
Click to expand...

You talk like someone who just found out this big Russian lie.
But a lot of people already knew it from centuries of history.
 
RAÏSanÏa

RAÏSanÏa

Member
winjer said:
You talk like someone who just found out this big Russian lie.
But a lot of people already knew it from centuries of history.
Click to expand...
Someone quoted that unsafe thing like it was strategy and defended it in the thread recently. It was going around and may be a reason Perun addressed it specifically. Although, he didn't name anyone in particular. I only saw it here.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Raistandantulus said:
Someone quoted that unsafe thing like it was strategy and defended it in the thread recently. It was going around and may be a reason Perun addressed it specifically. Although, he didn't name anyone in particular. I only saw it here.
Click to expand...

But it is a strategy for Russia and it's something we have to account for when dealing with them. We can't ignore this, despite being obviously a lie to justify their many invasions.
One of the things that Putin said in his latest speech is that "Russia is fighting for it's ancestral lands". Again, this is the kind of strategy that Russia uses to justify it's many invasions of neighboring countries.
But for anyone with some rationale, they will understand that this justification is the kind of thing that is constantly repeated in war crimes tribunal, because many dictators use this as an excuse for their wars.

Understanding Russia's strategy and discourse, does not mean one has to agree with it, quite the contrary. But it means one can predict their moves.
When Putin, more than a decade ago, started to say, openly, with western leaders, that Ukraine was not a real country, it should have raised more red flags. Unfortunately, most of the western leaders ignored it.
 
H

Hypereides

Member
Reading key points from Putin's latest speach is surreal. Partially, somewhat summarises into something in the order of:

"No, its not us who are corrupt. Its the west!"

"No, its not us who warmongering. Its the west!"

"No, its not us who are power hungry. Its the west!"

"No, its not us who are ramping up authoritarianism. Its Ukraine!"

They must delibrately be turning a blind eye to their own internal issues and current state of affairs. I guess this is what it looks like when you start sniffing too many lines of your own propaganda.

M1chl said:
I probably said it wrong, I don't think that's in any shape or form comparable. I just think that in minds of gamers™ it sounds the same. I fully agree with you.

I also love the general "Marxism MARXISM" panic and then when Marx is literally on screen, it is all good.

Boycott is also more for a "consumer boycott" rather than some company ban. I am playing the game and this game isn't critique like Bioshock was, it is more like a celebration of great might of USSR.

Besides fuck, in few opening minutes, there are scene which shows you the area and there is one thing which stood up for me. There was some statue "which celebrate USSR win on Germans", the fuck you won, first you were with them and then west help you massively, to beat them. A lot of this could be stealth propaganda for average western consumer, which is why it is dangerous.

This conflict really shows what kind of damage USSR/ did not only Regionally, but world-wide.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna sound like a hypocrite, since I normally sway far away from political topics related to gaming, but I agree that its pointing towards a bad precedent. It really seems like some people have got it way too cozy in current times to ignore the kind of suffering and horrors people experienced under USSR rule.

The last thing Russia deserves right now is a positive image. Especially, a "celebration" of the former USSR. Putin does not shy away from how he percieves the fall of the USSR and iron curtain as one of the most "tragic" geopolitical events in history.
 
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M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Hypereides said:
Reading key points from Putin's latest speach is surreal. Partially, somewhat summarises into something in the order of:

"No, its not us who are corrupt. Its the west!"

"No, its not us who warmongering. Its the west!"

"No, its not us who are power hungry. Its the west!"

"No, its not use who are ramping up authoritaranism. Its Ukraine!"

They must delibrately be turning a blind eye to their own internal issues and current state of affairs. I guess this is what it looks like when you start sniffing too many lines of their own propaganda.


I'm gonna sound like a hypocrite, since I normally sway far away from political topics related to gaming, but I agree that its pointing towards a bad precedent. It really seems like some people have got it way too cozy in current times to ignore the kind of suffering and horrors people experienced under USSR rule.

The last thing Russia deserves right now is a positive image. Especially, a "celebration" of the former USSR. Putin does not shy away from how he percieves the fall of the USSR and iron curtain as one of the most "tragic" geopolitical events in history.
Click to expand...
Hard to sway away from politics, when game is about USSR, thus inherently political. Good take : )
 
RAÏSanÏa

RAÏSanÏa

Member
winjer said:
But it is a strategy for Russia and it's something we have to account for when dealing with them. We can't ignore this, despite being obviously a lie to justify their many invasions.
One of the things that Putin said in his latest speech is that "Russia is fighting for it's ancestral lands". Again, this is the kind of strategy that Russia uses to justify it's many invasions of neighboring countries.
But for anyone with some rationale, they will understand that this justification is the kind of thing that is constantly repeated in war crimes tribunal, because many dictators use this as an excuse for their wars.

Understanding Russia's strategy and discourse, does not mean one has to agree with it, quite the contrary. But it means one can predict their moves.
When Putin, more than a decade ago, started to say, openly, with western leaders, that Ukraine was not a real country, it should have raised more red flags. Unfortunately, most of the western leaders ignored it.
Click to expand...
But not the grand strategy, which Perun suggests is under the Primakov Doctrine.

Fortunately it wasn't completely ignored. The international training Ukraine got and put into service as a basis after Crimea, in moving them away from Soviet doctrine, really helped them defend themselves, integrate properly all the systems being given, even remove corruption. Now Ukraine's giving us lessons.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Raistandantulus said:
But not the grand strategy, which Perun suggests is under the Primakov Doctrine.
Click to expand...

The strategy of Russia claiming some existential threat to itself comes way before the Primakov Doctrine in the 1990's. Centuries of claiming that they have to invade some other country to protect themselves.

Raistandantulus said:
Fortunately it wasn't completely ignored. The international training Ukraine got and put into service as a basis after Crimea, in moving them away from Soviet doctrine, really helped them defend themselves, integrate properly all the systems being given, even remove corruption. Now Ukraine's giving us lessons.
Click to expand...

Even before the Crimean invasion in 2014, Putin was already claiming Ukraine was not a real country. A tactic also used by Hitler, to justify invading Poland and Checoslováquia.
Only after the Crimean invasion did some world leaders start to open their eyes to what Russia really wanted. But even then, some countries still tagged along with Putin.
That's why there were several disagreements with the USA and Germany over the Nordstream II, for example.
 
RAÏSanÏa

RAÏSanÏa

Member
winjer said:
The strategy of Russia claiming some existential threat to itself comes way before the Primakov Doctrine in the 1990's. Centuries of claiming that they have to invade some other country to protect themselves.



Even before the Crimean invasion in 2014, Putin was already claiming Ukraine was not a real country. A tactic also used by Hitler, to justify invading Poland and Checoslováquia.
Only after the Crimean invasion did some world leaders start to open their eyes to what Russia really wanted. But even then, some countries still tagged along with Putin.
That's why there were several disagreements with the USA and Germany over the Nordstream II, for example.
Click to expand...
But knowing the grand strategy is about fighting the "unipolar power of the US" rather than passes in Asia makes a difference in trying to make sense of what's going on. When getting into psychology/anthropology for strategy it starts to get a bit esoteric and could go as far as getting into the migrations of Man and lose resolution.

Biden showing up in Ukraine was amazing in regard of Perun saying the US is benefiting and reminded me of a post I made last year.
Raistandantulus said:
It's the chance for the USA to rightfully claim with grace the mantle Mistress of the World.
Click to expand...
With that gesture they certainly have.
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Raistandantulus said:
But knowing the grand strategy is about fighting the "unipolar power of the US" rather than passes in Asia makes a difference in trying to make sense of what's going on. When getting into psychology/anthropology for strategy it starts to get a bit esoteric and could go as far as getting into the migrations of Man and lose resolution.
Click to expand...

Russia has been using these excuses, way before the Cold War. It's almost a millennia of invading other countries, or kingdoms.
The only European empire that never truly decolonized was Russia.
 
T

TwinB242

Member
Its seeming more and more likely that China is in fact going to provide Russia with lethal weaponry to use against Ukraine. And don't expect the same response in sanctions against them. Given how much shit is made in China sanctions against them would absolutely destroy the American economy and cause support for Ukraine to plummet.

And I bet China is aware of this which is why the idea of arm sales to Russia is becoming more appealing. Win win for both countries while everyone else gets fucked.

Bad situation all around.
 
S

sinnergy

Member
TwinB242 said:
Its seeming more and more likely that China is in fact going to provide Russia with lethal weaponry to use against Ukraine. And don't expect the same response in sanctions against them. Given how much shit is made in China sanctions against them would absolutely destroy the American economy and cause support for Ukraine to plummet.

And I bet China is aware of this which is why the idea of arm sales to Russia is becoming more appealing. Win win for both countries while everyone else gets fucked.

Bad situation all around.
Click to expand...
I like to see those Chinese weapons on the battle field, they are probably also turds 🤣😆
 
RJMacready73

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
TwinB242 said:
Its seeming more and more likely that China is in fact going to provide Russia with lethal weaponry to use against Ukraine. And don't expect the same response in sanctions against them. Given how much shit is made in China sanctions against them would absolutely destroy the American economy and cause support for Ukraine to plummet.

And I bet China is aware of this which is why the idea of arm sales to Russia is becoming more appealing. Win win for both countries while everyone else gets fucked.

Bad situation all around.
Click to expand...
I'd love to sanction the shit out of China, oh noes we no longer can get cheap plastic shite or tech, how about we then spend that money elsewhere whilst setting up factories in countries not run by cunts ruling over a zombie populace.. I hate the fact that as a westerner we do deals with countries like China.. but capitalism... Needs to fucking die tbh, how about we leave all those cunts to themselves and their shitty own products and the west simply trades with one another... One can dream of a not so interconnected world...
 
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Tams

Tams

Gold Member
RJMacready73 said:
I'd love to sanction the shit out of China, oh noes we no longer can get cheap plastic shite or tech, how about we then spend that money elsewhere whilst setting up factories in countries not run by cunts ruling over a zombie populace.. I hate the fact that as a westerner we do deals with countries like China.. but capitalism... Needs to fucking die tbh, how about we leave all those cunts to themselves and their shitty own products and the west simply trades with one another... One can dream of a not so interconnected world...
Click to expand...
Not out of morality, patriotism, or even necessity, companies have been moving out of China for quite a few years now because the cost of labour there has increased quite a bit, and the bullshit they have to deal with (including rampant IP theft) has started to make it poor value for money.

And China have been shit scared of this. Most of what has kept companies there is that China has a moderate level of technical ability, that has been vastly built up. Other countries and regions, like SE Asia and India don't have as ready access to these mid levels of technology. Nor do they have the speed of access to resources. The Chinese government has also been heavily subsidising transport of manufactured goods, so as to make them more price competitive. But even still, companies are moving out and domestic Chinese companies can't replace all of them.

I am concerned that feeding the Russian war machine may help revitalise the Chinese economy, but the CCP will have to decide if that would be worth the costs. I do hope that the 'free democratic world' has its governments start to crackdown on companies that trade in China if they do supply Russia though. I don't expect an overnight exit, but at the very least immediate cessation of any further investment in China and the ditching of any contracts in negotiation, no matter how far advanced.
 
RJMacready73

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Tams said:
Not out of morality, patriotism, or even necessity, companies have been moving out of China for quite a few years now because the cost of labour there has increased quite a bit, and the bullshit they have to deal with (including rampant IP theft) has started to make it poor value for money.

And China have been shit scared of this. Most of what has kept companies there is that China has a moderate level of technical ability, that has been vastly built up. Other countries and regions, like SE Asia and India don't have as ready access to these mid levels of technology. Nor do they have the speed of access to resources. The Chinese government has also been heavily subsidising transport of manufactured goods, so as to make them more price competitive. But even still, companies are moving out and domestic Chinese companies can't replace all of them.

I am concerned that feeding the Russian war machine may help revitalise the Chinese economy, but the CCP will have to decide if that would be worth the costs. I do hope that the 'free democratic world' has its governments start to crackdown on companies that trade in China if they do supply Russia though. I don't expect an overnight exit, but at the very least immediate cessation of any further investment in China and the ditching of any contracts in negotiation, no matter how far advanced.
Click to expand...
I think the Chinese feeding into the Russian war machine is wishful thinking on Putin's part and typical western Scaremongering, it makes zero sense to sell to Russia and incur secondary sanctions that would eliminate any costs from sales, hell they'd even dwarf the sales and for what? To gain some political leverage with another dictator whose time is running out? It's a lose lose move for the Chinese, as for the Russians, what are they gonna do with these weapons? Oh so China is selling you long range missiles and armour, tell you what Ukraine here's EVERYTHING! NATO would have carteblanch to just give Ukraine whatever regardless of these stupid Russians redflags, can't be buying long range missiles from China and expect the west to not supply better to Ukraine?

Speaking of longer range missiles I see some chatter about deep strikes with potentially longer range missiles from the Ukrainians, has there been any verifications of this? I didn't think they'd want to be breaking out those bad boys before they have the tanks in place to make the big push, no point wasting them now or giving the Russians a chance to move their depots again, you want to be hitting all those ammo and command posts a few weeks before you roll in with all those lovely western tanks
 
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