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[MrMephistoX]

The NATO thing and Ukraine are linked, but not in the way he claims. He believes that Ukraine belongs to Russia so he was going to do this eventually anyway. The NATO thing just ramped up the plans. He knew that once they were NATO he couldn't take the territory. So he chose to do this to prevent them joining NATO, but not because of the reasons that he initially gave.


He really showed his ass when he laid out the Russian Empire talk.

Yep that’s what I was trying to get at he’s doing logical gymnastics to justify the decision but also recognizes invading a NATO country is a catastrophic idea so better to invade an non NATO country now to prevent it from becoming a NATO country later which he could no longer invade without a strong military response. The pretext of recognizing Russian held territories as a justification for peace keeping is also clever but it fits the logic of Putin needing to find excuses/justifications to rationalize his decisions. If dude was Hitler with designs on the rest of Europe he would have just rolled in without any explanation or rationalization. We could both be wrong and he really is going to accidentally start WWIII by a series of blunders and miscalculations like WWI but right now it doesn’t seem like that’s his goal.

 

[QSD]

No one is saying there is someone better waiting in the wings to run Russia. And if there is, it would be better discovered through free and fair elections versus autocratic dictatorship which Putin has put into place.

I am completely in favour of free and fair elections, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. (EDIT: maybe it's good to add that IMHO a decent metaphor for the russian president's position is basically the iron throne in GOT) In the end Putin is gonna Putin, he doesn't have the GAF size dong so he's gonna have to compensate somehow. If he wants to dream of long lost russian empires and feels the expansion of NATO threatens that dream, or if he's just doing this for purely pragmatic purposes while clothing it in the language of historical inevitability, he's doing it and we're gonna have to deal with it.

 

[bender]

Beating each other with sticks will suffice, I think.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Dream-Knife]

Those are countries joining NATO, not NATO militarily expanding to threaten Russia.

So, your point is that Putin is justified in his actions because a lot of democratic countries voluntarily joined NATO because it granted them security, stability and reinforced their right to self determination?

Are you sat somewhere in Moscow, with your Lenin hat on?

If the Warsaw pact expanded to south America the US would throw a fit. Ukraine is their Mexico.

No, I live in the US. Russia is not communist FYI.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Yep that’s what I was trying to get at he’s doing logical gymnastics to justify the decision but also recognizes invading a NATO country is a catastrophic idea so better to invade an non NATO country now to prevent it from becoming a NATO country later which he could no longer invade without a strong military response. The pretext of recognizing Russian held territories as a justification for peace keeping is also clever but it fits the logic of Putin needing to find excuses/justifications to rationalize his decisions. If dude was Hitler with designs on the rest of Europe he would have just rolled in without any explanation or rationalization. We could both be wrong and he really is going to accidentally start WWIII by a series of blunders and miscalculations like WWI but right now it doesn’t seem like that’s his goal.

The consistent war fantasy in the west for the last 10 years mirrors that of the British-German war fantasy in the 1900s.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

Do Shaktar Donestsk now play in the Russian league?

 

[chromhound]

I feel bad for the people of Ukraine

 

[akimbo009]

NATO and the EU have committed a lot of mistakes too, by ignoring the warnings by political and diplomatic experts over the past two decades. Heck, even Yeltsin was wary of NATO's expansion and made reference to the Two Plus Four Treaty pertaining to Germany’s reunification in 1990. That treaty was signed under the condition that a further expansion of the NATO zone into the East would be excluded. From a Russian perspective, NATO's eastward expansion is an act of aggression so they feel like they are defending themselves. Not to mention that Eastern-Ukraine has a majority of Russian sympathizers among the population.

History is the reason why Putin is feeling strong enough to make this bold move, a severely weakened EU, Eastern-European countries moving away from the West and inching closer to Russia, energy dependency prohibiting a strong response from Western-Europe. History is the reason why Germany is refusing to openly take a strong stance, being almost the only European country to not send any military to the Ukraine. Hence Klitschko's negative response:



NATO's biggest mistake was believing that the cold war had truly ended, by recklessly backing Russia into a corner. The reason why Putin feels like he can pull this off now is because he believes that Europe's response will be quite timid. The sanctions that were imposed since Crimea's annexation have been toothless and didn't hurt Russia all that much.

Sure, Biden can flap his wings as much as he wants, but Putin knows that ultimately natural resources are more important than economy. He's also aware that as long as Germany remains reluctant, there won't be a unified strong response from the EU.



Bucharest Summit Declaration

Europe in general has been pretty lame in most of their responses for a long time. And it has emboldened Putin to some extent, for sure. But threatening to kill 10,000s of people to see your vision out, like Putin is doing, is wholly on him.

And the NATO expansion was never off the table, not agreed too. Beyond that, it's up to independent nations to make whatever treaty or agreement they want. If I was an Eastern European country or former Warsaw Pact nation that had to live under the hardships of the USSR I would also be looking for security to avoid being put back into that sphere.

Sorry, I just don't buy your argument that "if only Poland didn't join NATO then we wouldn't be ok this mess!". It's apologizing for Russia's bad behavior.

If the Warsaw pact expanded to south America the US would throw a fit. Ukraine is their Mexico.

No, I live in the US. Russia is not communist FYI.

Well, that didn't happen so you don't need to make up fiction. Just because a nation borders another doesn't make it "their Mexico". Is China their Canada?

 

[MrMephistoX]

The consistent war fantasy in the west for the last 10 years mirrors that of the British-German war fantasy in the 1900s.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

That’s honestly the only reason I’m a little worried. WWI didn’t need to happen but a series of little blusters and blunders by the major world powers lit the fuse and then no one could contain it.

 

[jason10mm]

What’s your plan to transition GAF to papyrus or stone tablets?

Can't use smoke signals, that cultural appropriation and twitter has already patented it!

 

[Dream-Knife]

Well, that didn't happen so you don't need to make up fiction. Just because a nation borders another doesn't make it "their Mexico". Is China their Canada?

It's an analogy.

Lately? Yes. Russo-Chinese relations are much better now than after the split. If WW3 were to happen as a result of this, China would take Taiwan. That happens and we lost straight up. That's not even taking into consideration the state of their military vs ours, or our social issues vs theirs.

 

[chromhound]

It's an analogy.

Lately? Yes. Russo-Chinese relations are much better now than after the split. If WW3 were to happen as a result of this, China would take Taiwan. That happens and we lost straight up. That's not even taking into consideration the state of their military vs ours, or our social issues vs theirs.

next thing you know China and Russia merge lol

 

[Dream-Knife]

next thing you know China and Russia merge lol

...What?

 

[TheInfamousKira]

...What?

The fabled Chinass. The ultimate Super Power. Enough nuclear stockpile to turn the Earth into a spacefaring vessel while our new overlords ride bears and look for smackerels of hunny or some shit.

But no, seriously, this is wild.

 

[kittoo]

If the Warsaw pact expanded to south America the US would throw a fit. Ukraine is their Mexico.

No, I live in the US. Russia is not communist FYI.

That's what I have been wondering too. To be clear I am not American, Russian or Ukrainian, so my perspective comes from a fairly neutral but maybe less informed place.

Why is it necessary that Ukraine be part of Nato? I get it that Ukraine would like to be in nato so that it feels more secure etc., but what does US get from continuous Nato expansion? It's not like the eastern European countries are military powerhouses which will add much capability, and it's also not like Nato is expanding in any other direction. From unbiased eyes it's pretty obvious Russia would look at this as direct chess moves against them.

To me it looks like US foreign policy is stuck in cold war still- expanding nato to Russian borders and forcing russia in a corner. US should be focusing on and be concerned about China. This pushing Russia will only force Russia towards China more, making everything more difficult in the future. China is the real threat but US is stuck on repeat track of Russia.

I am happy to be educated more on this, but from a neutral perspective it looks like US doesn't know its real enemies and issues (but I guess that's the US story since 1990s).

 

[akimbo009]

It's an analogy.

Lately? Yes. Russo-Chinese relations are much better now than after the split. If WW3 were to happen as a result of this, China would take Taiwan. That happens and we lost straight up. That's not even taking into consideration the state of their military vs ours, or our social issues vs theirs.

It's a bad analogy.

Whose social issues? I don't know what this post means. But this isn't command and conquer - not going to randomly unite into some megapower with unified view of the world (hint: other than being opposed to the "west" they have little if nothing in common).

 

[akimbo009]

That's what I have been wondering too. To be clear I am not American, Russian or Ukrainian, so my perspective comes from a fairly neutral but maybe less informed place.

Why is it necessary that Ukraine be part of Nato? I get it that Ukraine would like to be in nato so that it feels more secure etc., but what does US get from continuous Nato expansion? It's not like the eastern European countries are military powerhouses which will add much capability, and it's also not like Nato is expanding in any other direction. From unbiased eyes it's pretty obvious Russia would look at this as direct chess moves against them.

To me it looks like US foreign policy is stuck in cold war still- expanding nato to Russian borders and forcing russia in a corner. US should be focusing on and be concerned about China. This pushing Russia will only force Russia towards China more, making everything more difficult in the future. China is the real threat but US is stuck on repeat track of Russia.

I am happy to be educated more on this, but from a neutral perspective it looks like US doesn't know its real enemies and issues (but I guess that's the US story since 1990s).

Where are you from to be so "neutral"? This issue effects the world.

Anyway, Ukraine itself wants to join NATO. It's a willing decision that has general support from their population - and increasingly so since 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine and continues to kill their people.

US has pivoted to the Pacific. See Quad, Japan/Australia alliances, selling nuclear subs to Australia, etc. This issue with Ukraine is a distraction that the US doesn't want to solely lead so it can maintain it's presence in the Pacific mostly intact to continue it's first island chain strategy to contain China.

And China invading Taiwan is a bigger issue, but also not imminent and outside of China's current military capabilities (but will be able in the next 5-10 years). But this isn't on topic.

 

[strange headache]

And the NATO expansion was never off the table, not agreed too.

Not true:

To understand Russia’s claims of betrayal, it is necessary to review the reassurances then US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO’s secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels.

If I was an Eastern European country or former Warsaw Pact nation that had to live under the hardships of the USSR I would also be looking for security to avoid being put back into that sphere.

The thing is though, that a majority of East-Ukrainians did not want to join NATO.

This deep divide between the West and East of Ukraine is one of the reasons why the Russian invasion into Donbas is even possible in the first place.

Sorry, I just don't buy your argument that "if only Poland didn't join NATO then we wouldn't be ok this mess!". It's apologizing for Russia's bad behavior.

Who is talking about Poland? But now that you mention it, Russia is still pissed about the NATO missile system :

In August 2008, Poland and the United States signed a preliminary deal to place part of the missile defence shield in Poland that would be linked to air-defence radar in the Czech Republic.

NATO eastward expansion has been a point of contention for a long time now, that is a fact. Remember how threatened Americans felt about Cuba? From their perspective, this is pretty much the same issue. Whether you agree with Russia's rhetoric or not isn't important. What matters is that it seems to be working among their allies.

You and me may not agree with this, but from the perspective of military power balance, Russia probably feels just as threatened by us, as we are feeling threatened by them. The partially hysterical anti-Russia sentiment propagated by the US government has probably not helped to alleviate the issue either.

 

[Dream-Knife]

That's what I have been wondering too. To be clear I am not American, Russian or Ukrainian, so my perspective comes from a fairly neutral but maybe less informed place.

Why is it necessary that Ukraine be part of Nato? I get it that Ukraine would like to be in nato so that it feels more secure etc., but what does US get from continuous Nato expansion? It's not like the eastern European countries are military powerhouses which will add much capability, and it's also not like Nato is expanding in any other direction. From unbiased eyes it's pretty obvious Russia would look at this as direct chess moves against them.

To me it looks like US foreign policy is stuck in cold war still- expanding nato to Russian borders and forcing russia in a corner. US should be focusing on and be concerned about China. This pushing Russia will only force Russia towards China more, making everything more difficult in the future. China is the real threat but US is stuck on repeat track of Russia.

I am happy to be educated more on this, but from a neutral perspective it looks like US doesn't know its real enemies and issues (but I guess that's the US story since 1990s).

Yep, we're still stuck in the cold war mentality. Meanwhile China an actual threat, and we're not doing anything about that.
Look at what their tiktok algorithm promotes vs ours. The war is already going on.

It's a bad analogy.

Whose social issues? I don't know what this post means. But this isn't command and conquer - not going to randomly unite into some megapower with unified view of the world (hint: other than being opposed to the "west" they have little if nothing in common).

Not really. A military alliance encroaching on your country would be considered hostile by literally anyone.

China doesn't have the deep division in their society like we do. We are very very weak socially right now. We can't socially or economically fight a third-generation war against a superpower now. Especially when one of those superpowers makes almost everything you need. The recent purge of the military (reminiscent of what Stalin did) by both administrations certainly doesn't help, and America's youth is in the worst shape in our history (physically and mentally).

If this goes to a full scale war, the west will lose.

 

[Ionian]

The governments of the world have been literally telling us that it was going to happen for weeks now.

I read that Ukraine holds a good chunk of some specific natural ressrouces, looking at the ranks in europe
I am no expert, just saw that in the web, please correct if needed, thanks

If only this new thing, called the 'Internet' was popular.

I long for that day so people can make up their own minds.



You're welcome.

 

[Nobody_Important]

If only this new thing, called the 'Internet' was popular.

I long for that day so people can make up their own minds.



You're welcome.

Did you quote me by accident? Because I'm kind of confused as to what I said has to do with what you just said?

 

[Meicyn]

If this goes to a full scale war, the west will lose.

lmao

 

[akimbo009]

Yep, we're still stuck in the cold war mentality. Meanwhile China an actual threat, and we're not doing anything about that.
Look at what their tiktok algorithm promotes vs ours. The war is already going on.

Not really. A military alliance encroaching on your country would be considered hostile by literally anyone.

China doesn't have the deep division in their society like we do. We are very very weak socially right now. We can't socially or economically fight a third-generation war against a superpower now. Especially when one of those superpowers makes almost everything you need. The recent purge of the military (reminiscent of what Stalin did) by both administrations certainly doesn't help, and America's youth is in the worst shape in our history (physically and mentally).

If this goes to a full scale war, the west will lose.

What fevered dream is this? Almost want to copypasta "they just shot themselves in a foot" meme since you're such an expert on military and China culture.

 

[Taxexemption]

Yep, we're still stuck in the cold war mentality. Meanwhile China an actual threat, and we're not doing anything about that.
Look at what their tiktok algorithm promotes vs ours. The war is already going on.

Not really. A military alliance encroaching on your country would be considered hostile by literally anyone.

China doesn't have the deep division in their society like we do. We are very very weak socially right now. We can't socially or economically fight a third-generation war against a superpower now. Especially when one of those superpowers makes almost everything you need. The recent purge of the military (reminiscent of what Stalin did) by both administrations certainly doesn't help, and America's youth is in the worst shape in our history (physically and mentally).

If this goes to a full scale war, the west will lose.

If it goes to full scale war everyone will lose. I'm against war, because I don't think it's possible to do it in a moral manner, and that anything that is gained is overshadowed by the costs. This would be the first major war in this era, with potential for deployment of both cyber and nuclear weapons, and where the nations involved do not have self sufficient economies. We don't know how long the war would last, and even if we somehow magically had a quick victory, do we want to be occupying Russia for the next 20 years? How did that workout with Afghanistan?

I think if nuclear and the most devastating cyber weapons that are available are not used, the US still has a pretty good chance of winning. I just don't think its worth it, and its not clear to me that the most devastating weapons would not be used.

 

[Meicyn]

If it goes to full scale war everyone will lose. I'm against war, because I don't think it's possible to do it in a moral manner, and that anything that is gained is overshadowed by the costs. This would be the first major war in this era, with potential for deployment of both cyber and nuclear weapons, and where the nations involved do not have self sufficient economies. We don't know how long the war would last, and even if we somehow magically had a quick victory, do we want to be occupying Russia for the next 20 years? How did that workout with Afghanistan?

I think if nuclear and the most devastating cyber weapons that are available are not used, the US still has a pretty good chance of winning. I just don't think its worth it, and its not clear to me that the most devastating weapons would not be used.

There would never be an occupation of Russia. Dead Hand makes it impossible.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

If we look back through the smoldering ruins and this turns out to have been the prelude to WW3...well, it's been an honor, ladies and gents.

I hope not, I havent told enough people my pronouns yet. I've so much to teach.

 

[Ionian]

Did you quote me by accident? Because I'm kind of confused as to what I said has to do with what you just said?

Yes, sorry about that.

As for what I linked, click it. Learn.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

This is a clusterfuck. Russia is clearly wrong in doing this, but let's not pretend that the west has no part in it. If I was Russia and I had my enemy right at my doors, I would also deploy troops to the border. This is not as simple as "US good, Russia bad" (even though I think Russia's government is straight up trash). NATO wants to back Russia into a corner, and it's bitting them in the ass. Try petting a scared dog in a corner, and you'll see what happens.

Should Donetsk and Luhansk be independent? Now that's the question that will show the double standards around the world.

Obviously the problem is there is only so much that can be done about a country with enough nuclear weapons to glass large portions of the planet. I think we probably shouldn’t pretend to be foreign policy experts. All I will say is that I hope China doesn’t take this as a green light to roll over Taiwan.

China won't invade Taiwan any time soon. And the China-Taiwan dispute is a very very sensitive one where an invasion would be a loss for both.

 

[FunkMiller]

If this goes to a full scale war, the west will lose.

Please tell me you're kidding. You know that Russia is basically held together with spit and bailing wire, don't you? The economy is barely the size of fucking Italy's. There has been years of neglect in its infrastructure, including the military complex.

Why have so many people fallen for Putin's bullshit?

And what's with all you fuckers saying Putin's got a point, because Ukraine dares to want to voluntarily join NATO, which it has a perfect right to do as a democratic nation, looking out for its own welfare?

Have we been inundated with Russian cyber dudes, spreading the Kremlin line? Because it sure as hell feels like it from this thread

 

[Rentahamster]

America might have been on stronger footing if we hadn't been pulling a Soviet Union in Afghanistan and Iraq for the past 20 years.

 

[Rentahamster]

Please tell me you're kidding. You know that Russia is basically held together with spit and bailing wire, don't you? The economy is barely the size of fucking Italy's. There has been years of neglect in its infrastructure, including the military complex.

Why have so many people fallen for Putin's bullshit?

Russia's military sucks, but does that really matter if we're dealing with a nuclear capable nation? In a manner of speaking, everyone loses in a nuclear war. I doubt it'll ever come to that, but the possibility is on the table.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Please tell me you're kidding. You know that Russia is basically held together with spit and bailing wire, don't you? The economy is barely the size of fucking Italy's. There has been years of neglect in its infrastructure, including the military complex.

Why have so many people fallen for Putin's bullshit?

And what's with all you fuckers saying Putin's got a point, because Ukraine dares to want to voluntarily join NATO, which it has a perfect right to do as a democratic nation, looking out for its own welfare?

Have we been inundated with Russian cyber dudes, spreading the Kremlin line? Because it sure as hell feels like it from this thread

Know I’m over simplifying here but WWI is the scenario to worry about not Putin deciding he wants to spend his twilight years playing Napoleon or Hitler.

 

[FunkMiller]

Russia's military sucks, but does that really matter if we're dealing with a nuclear capable nation? In a manner of speaking, everyone loses in a nuclear war. I doubt it'll ever come to that, but the possibility is on the table.

The nuclear element isn't really even worth discussing. Mutually assured destruction is not what the Kremlin wants any more than the west. This will stay based in conventional weapons. Too many people with too much money floating around for it to escalate that much. Even if Putin is that mad to try to take it that far, those around him aren't. And I'm not so sure Russia's nuclear force is that well maintained anyway.

 

[Ionian]

removed whilst laughing

 

[akimbo009]

The nuclear element isn't really even worth discussing. Mutually assured destruction is not what the Kremlin wants any more than the west. This will stay based in conventional weapons. Too many people with too much money floating around for it to escalate that much. Even if Putin is that mad to try to take it that far, those around him aren't. And I'm not so sure Russia's nuclear force is that well maintained anyway.

It only takes a couple. But your point is correct - not sure why folks jump to nukes. Frankly, there are plenty of conventional weapons Russia has, and the US, that could cause similar death tolls if they wanted (and if you look at how Russia has used their artillery to shell cities, they basically have).

Anyway - Russia would very quickly lose in direct confrontation with the US let alone the whole of NATO.

 

[Taxexemption]

It only takes a couple. But your point is correct - not sure why folks jump to nukes. Frankly, there are plenty of conventional weapons Russia has, and the US, that could cause similar death tolls if they wanted (and if you look at how Russia has used their artillery to shell cities, they basically have).

Anyway - Russia would very quickly lose in direct confrontation with the US let alone the whole of NATO.

People jump to Nukes cause what are you going to do when you are losing? Also cyber attacks should be in the same category. If you poison a cities water supply through hacking it's water treatment plants, or cause various automated systems to run haywire you could kill large numbers of people sight unseen.

At the end of a war is a loser. You want to tell Putin "Yeah you lose your country and we are going to put you on trial for war crimes, and we'll probably change all of the social dynamics in your country and ruin everything you like about your country." and not expect them to have a meltdown and do something like use nukes?

 

[Ionian]

Ireland 'Shannon' airport was used for attacks as a launching point after 9/11.

Believe it's wrong? look it up. It's horribly true. Still used to this day. That place that was used with sending off the youth to die, was a lauching point from starvation, Very popular as a point hitting Iraq, Was a point to hit the region, I was a child when it happened.

russia ireland - Google Search

Totally normal, totally fine.

 

[akimbo009]

People jump to Nukes cause what are you going to do when you are losing? Also cyber attacks should be in the same category. If you poison a cities water supply through hacking it's water treatment plants, or cause various automated systems to run haywire you could kill large numbers of people sight unseen.

At the end of a war is a loser. You want to tell Putin "Yeah you lose your country and we are going to put you on trial for war crimes, and we'll probably change all of the social dynamics in your country and ruin everything you like about your country." and not expect them to have a meltdown and do something like use nukes?

War isn't always zero sun. And no, that's not how a losing end game would look like, since Putin isn't the only one pushing buttons... And it'd be mutual destruction for everyone else. So no, it's a bad calculus and pretty much means nuclear powers fighting would avoid using it since both sides lose. Nuking civilian populations as a last gasp move really does nothing.

 

[FunkMiller]

People jump to Nukes cause what are you going to do when you are losing? Also cyber attacks should be in the same category. If you poison a cities water supply through hacking it's water treatment plants, or cause various automated systems to run haywire you could kill large numbers of people sight unseen.

My friend, no other form of warfare comes even close to nuclear in terms of its destructive capability.

And Russia won’t go nuclear. Putin will be defenestrated long before that happens. He’s a bully sitting atop a pile of extremely rich kleptocrats and oligarchs, who will have him removed the fucking second his rule threatens their bottom line. Right now they coddle and appease him, because it suits them to. But if he really does go batshit enough to look like he’s going to press the red button, it’ll be a bullet in the head, and a more compliant replacement found.

 

[SiteSeer]

If we look back through the smoldering ruins and this turns out to have been the prelude to WW3...well, it's been an honor, ladies and gents.

drama queen lol

 

[Ionian]

War isn't always zero sun. And no, that's not how a losing end game would look like, since Putin isn't the only one pushing buttons... And it'd be mutual destruction for everyone else. So no, it's a bad calculus and pretty much means nuclear powers fighting would avoid using it since both sides lose. Nuking civilian populations as a last gasp move really does nothing.

A scumbag move but sure had the Japanese surrender. Nuked innocents. Not once but twice.

Innocent people wiped out. capitals turned to ash.

America, fuck yeah! Some people live in that stupidity and celebrate the fact they invaded, fucked up countries and left leaving ruins. Now Biden says he won't intervene. How's Afghanistan going right now? Oh the exact same since before before invasion and later withdrew troops? Yep that's how it is right now. And America armed the Taliban against Russia. They said WTF and turned against them once the US pulled out.

Watch this happen again in real time. America armed them against Russia and said lol nope and left.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Please tell me you're kidding. You know that Russia is basically held together with spit and bailing wire, don't you? The economy is barely the size of fucking Italy's. There has been years of neglect in its infrastructure, including the military complex.

Why have so many people fallen for Putin's bullshit?

And what's with all you fuckers saying Putin's got a point, because Ukraine dares to want to voluntarily join NATO, which it has a perfect right to do as a democratic nation, looking out for its own welfare?

Have we been inundated with Russian cyber dudes, spreading the Kremlin line? Because it sure as hell feels like it from this thread

I was referencing China, which will get involved in a world war.

Either way, I don't think an army of blue hairs would win a war that involves ground troops.

 

[Ionian]

drama queen lol

I believe that was sarcasm. Sorry for your loss of humor.

 

[Meicyn]

My friend, no other form of warfare comes even close to nuclear in terms of its destructive capability.

And Russia won’t go nuclear. Putin will be defenestrated long before that happens. He’s a bully sitting atop a pile of extremely rich kleptocrats and oligarchs, who will have him removed the fucking second his rule threatens their bottom line. Right now they coddle and appease him, because it suits them to. But if he really does go batshit enough to look like he’s going to press the red button, it’ll be a bullet in the head, and a more compliant replacement found.

The klingon high council is already grumbling behind the scenes. They too, fear the expansion of the federation so close to the empire’s borders, but they know this is a fool’s errand. Sowing instability into the Crimean star system has only made federation membership more attractive to two other star systems also neighboring the empire. Council members have grown fat off of federation exports and now those comforts may go away.

 

[FunkMiller]

The klingon high council is already grumbling behind the scenes. They too, fear the expansion of the federation so close to the empire’s borders, but they know this is a fool’s errand. Sowing instability into the Crimean star system has only made federation membership more attractive to two other star systems also neighboring the empire. Council members have grown fat off of federation exports and now those comforts may go away.

Putin's mad desire to reform the Soviet Union (how he must despise Gorbachev) is set at direct odds against the continued desire of those around him to line their fat fucking pockets with more and more cash. I'm sure they'd also like Russia's soft power to be exponentially increased on the world stage again... but not at the expense of their villas on the Black Sea.

And you're right. However this pans out, the desire to join the safety of NATO for neighbouring countries only goes up. Putin's irrationality will be his undoing.

 

[Ionian]

I was referencing China, which will get involved in a world war.

Either way, I don't think an army of blue hairs would win a war that involves ground troops.

China ain't gonna do shit apart from look to take islands. Too busy killing their own people.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I was referencing China, which will get involved in a world war.

Either way, I don't think an army of blue hairs would win a war that involves ground troops.

There will never be a war between west and east. Despite China and Russia being partners, they are business partners, no more no less. China is mostly a country focused on business partnerships, and war is not viewed as a way to achieve growth. You can see this through the One Belt One Road initiative, through their trading with countries under sanctions, etc. They don't give a fuck, current China just cares about $$$$. I simply don't see them siding with Russia on any type of conflict that doesn't threaten their immediate economy.

The only possible conflict for China might be Taiwan but, once again, they won't directly invade anything. It will be a slow process, worked from the inside.

 

[akimbo009]

A scumbag move but sure had the Japanese surrender. Nuked innocents. Not once but twice.

Innocent people wiped out. capitals turned to ash.

America, fuck yeah! Some people live in that stupidity and celebrate the fact they invaded, fucked up countries and left leaving ruins. Now Biden says he won't intervene. How's Afghanistan going right now? Oh the exact same since before before invasion and later withdrew troops? Yep that's how it is right now. And America armed the Taliban against Russia. They said WTF and turned against them once the US pulled out.

Watch this happen again in real time. America armed them against Russia and said lol nope and left.

What are you on about? I seem to notice that it's Russia doing the invading here. What's America got to do with that?

 

[Tschumi]

Putin is cracked, his got a lot of change out of playing chicken in places the West doesn't care about, but fucking with Europe? They thought war was behind them, then they're watching a strongman at the head of a country with flawed economics trying to set his personality cult in stone by sacrificing a people similarly as developed and 'contemporary' as Germans?

I hope this somehow proves to be his downfall, but it basically depends on how much of a beat down the West is willing to lay on him.

Let's just avoid mentioning that Trump took Putin at his word ahead of his own intelligence community, tried to use Putin's methods to stay in power, and gave Putin a free pass to screw with the governments of other nations... fucking leatherbound gimp...