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Russia Plans To Use Prison Labor For 2018 World Cup

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Chariot

Member
O rly, captain obvious. So you can't see any problem with turning prisons and prison population into a thing that becomes more and more useful the the more you have them instead? I have the same basic problem with USA's prison for profit system. Prisons should be a solution to a societal problem, not means to turn a huge profit.
I don't think that's going to happen.

And the problem of the US prisons are certainly that people can get to work. Im Gegenteil, a common problem is that people are poor, is it not, so giving them an oppurtunity to work and get aome money even while in prison is more useful to get them on the right track again than letting them rot.
 
I don't think that's going to happen.

And the problem of the US prisons are certainly that people can get to work. Im Gegenteil, a common problem is that people are poor, is it not, so giving them an oppurtunity to work and get aome money even while in prison is more useful to get them on the right track again than letting them rot.
I really think these arguments oversimplify the ways in which we can rehabilitate prisoners. There is a lot more to prison life than manual labour (often for less than minimum wage) working for national corporations. They can do things in the community, develop personal projects and education. Yes these things cost money but who does the prison system serve? The people, or Coca Cola et al?
 

chadskin

Member
Did no one else stumble about this sentence?
The service declined to comment on the plan when contacted by the AP on Monday, but deputy director Alexander Rudy told the Kommersant business newspaper that his agency was keen to use prisoners for "tasks that, let's say, wouldn't appeal to the ordinary citizen."
 

Chariot

Member
I really think these arguments oversimplify the ways in which we can rehabilitate prisoners. There is a lot more to prison life than manual labour (often for less than minimum wage) working for national corporations. They can do things in the community, develop personal projects and education. Yes these things cost money but who does the prison system serve? The people, or Coca Cola et al?
Options are nice. Just saying that honest work despite jail could appeal to some people.

Did no one else stumble about this sentence?

That sounds ominous o_O
Eh, few people want to deal with the garbage or do stuff in the sewers. Western Germany had turkish people come to it to do the dirty work the then relatively rich germans didn't want to do. Don't interpret too much into that.
 

Mohonky

Member
In Russias defence, the inmates will probably be paid more and live in better conditions than the workforce in Qatar.
 

Monocle

Member
I wonder how many of those people will turn out to be in prison for made-up crimes like spreading "propaganda" or being gay.

The people who support this are showing a frankly disturbing faith in the Russian government to treat its prisoners fairly. If you know anything at all about their extreme corruption, how political enemies are abused, and how easy it is to become an enemy of the state (sing the wrong song, say the wrong thing), you should have zero confidence that anything good will come of this.

Did no one else stumble about this sentence?
It's OK, criminals don't need human rights. They are bad because they are in prison.
 
People defending this seem completely oblivious of Russia's past (google gulag) and present, at the same time.

On February 26, a criminal case was opened against the band members who had participated in the February 21, 2012 Moscow cathedral performance.[76]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALS92big4TY

On March 3, Maria Alyokhina and Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, two alleged members of Pussy Riot, were arrested by the Russian authorities and accused of hooliganism. Both women at first denied being members of the group and started a hunger strike in protest against being held in jail away from their young children.[77] The defendants were held without bail. On March 16, another woman, Yekaterina Samutsevich, who had earlier been questioned as a witness in the case, was similarly arrested and charged.[72][78]
Defense attorney Nikolai Polozov said that both Tolokonnikova and Samutsevich were also members of the Voina group, and both had previously staged disruptive protests in the Tagansky Court building, where they would be judged. He argued that their two previous attempts to disrupt proceedings would bias the judge, and preclude a fair outcome at that location. "I believe that the judge will certainly remember my clients, and could easily take offense to it, and therefore could not make an objective decision".[79] The three detained members of Pussy Riot were declared political prisoners by the Union of Solidarity with Political Prisoners (SPP).[80] On March 25, Amnesty International named them prisoners of conscience due to "the severity of the response of the Russian authorities".[15]
Speaking at a liturgy in Moscow's Deposition of the Robe Church on March 21, Patriarch Kirill condemned Pussy Riot's actions as blasphemous, saying that the "Devil has laughed at all of us ... We have no future if we allow mockery in front of great shrines, and if some see such mockery as a sort of bravery, an expression of political protest, an acceptable action or a harmless joke."[81] The church's membership varied in its opinions on the case; a petition calling for the women to be forgiven was signed by approximately 5,000 lay members.[29] Patriarch Kirill spoke of "his heart breaking with bitterness" when he heard that some Orthodox Christians sought mercy and forgiveness for the women.[82]
Formal charges against the group were presented on June 4, the indictment running to 2,800 pages.[83] By late June 2012, disquiet over the trio's detention without setting a trial date and concern over what was regarded as excessive and arbitrary treatment,[84] led to the writing of an open letter. It was signed by leading opposition figures, as well as by director Fyodor Bondarchuk, a supporter of Putin, and actors Chulpan Khamatova and Yevgeny Mironov, both of whom had appeared in campaign videos supporting Putin's re-election.[85] Singer Alla Pugachyova appealed on the women's behalf, stating that they should be ordered to perform community service rather than imprisoned.[86] Meanwhile, Nikita Mikhalkov, head of the Russian Cinematographers' Union, stated that he would gladly sign an open letter against them.[87]
On July 4, the defendants were informed that they would have to finish preparing their defense by July 9. They announced a hunger strike in response, saying that two working days was inadequate time to finish preparing their trial defense.[88] On July 21, the court extended their pre-trial detention by a further six months.[89]


Initial reports had suggested that the women would serve their sentence in one of three provinces.[115] The decision upon a general-security women's corrective labor colony (the most common type of prison in Russia) in the Republic of Mordovia, approximately 400 kilometers from Moscow, was later confirmed by Tolokonnikova's husband. The women asked authorities to let them serve their sentence at the pre-trial detention facility in Moscow.[116] Their request was denied, and Tolokonnikova and Alyokhina were then dispatched to penal colonies in Mordovia and Perm Oblast, respectively.[117]
The IK-2 and IK-14 penal colonies in Yavas, Zubovo-Polyansky District, Mordovia, are the most common destinations for women prisoners sentenced in Moscow. It is the former location of the Dubravlag labor camp complex of the Gulag system.[118] Tolokonnikova was incarcerated in IK-14, whereas Alyokhina was sent to IK-32 in Perm.[12] The latter is a colony for first-time offenders, which houses a sewing factory, and an experimental vocational program to re-train women prisoners to become digital cartoon animators.[119] Conditions in IK-32 are relatively favorable, and neither prisoners nor human rights monitors have filed complaints about its conditions. Meanwhile, IK-14 has a harder reputation.[120]
In November 2012, Alyokhina requested to be voluntarily placed in solitary confinement, citing "strained relations" with her fellow prisoners.[121] Tolokonnikova also has experienced friction with inmates at IK-14, who have regarded her "at best with contempt, at worst with hostility", according to a report by Aleksey Baranovsky, Coordinator of the Human Rights Center "Russian Verdict".
On September 23, 2013 Tolokonnikova announced that she was staging a hunger strike in protest at alleged human rights violations in the prison. A translation of her letter describing the prison conditions was published in The Guardian.[122] On September 27, 2013, she was placed in the medical ward after not eating for five days.[123]


And this is just a pre-Ukraine war example. Now I wonder how many imprisoned Ukrainians and Crimean tatars will be forced to work too.

Fuck that country and fuck FIFA.
 
We did that in Brazil for the World Cup.

It was a good deal for the prisoners. They received education and qualification, decreased their jail time and they were paid. It wasn't forced.
 

nubbe

Member
We did that in Brazil for the World Cup.

It was a good deal for the prisoners. They received education and qualification, decreased their jail time and they were paid. It wasn't forced.

It is probably good in a system that has checks and balance
But russia?
 

mnannola

Member
If it's a real option for the prisons, I don't have a problem with it. If it is an "option" for them, as in they face repercussions for not signing up, then it's not cool.
 

linsivvi

Member
Are all the for profit prisons salivating at the thought of bringing this to America?

No, because they are way ahead of the game:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/14/928611/-INSOURCING-Identifying-businesses-involved-in-prison-labor-or-supporting-those-who-are

Build world class stadiums with prison labor instead of regular civilians?

What does it matter prison labors are being used to build stadiums or to make clothes or as farmers?

Slave labor is slave labor.
 
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