Ryan Coogler's 'Sinners' opens to a 100% critic score on Rotten Tomatoes
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Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Nice. Off to see it later today!
Toons
Member
It's was pretty good, I didn't like a couple of bits in it though.
The bit where he was singing in the barn and hip hop people and other more recent "artists" were dancing around and even djing
Took me straight out of the movie
The 1.43:1 aspect ratio didn't do much for the movie either!
I do believe that's supposed to have a thematic relevance to the film and how music has shaped the cultural of African Americans and there's a singular throughline that connects all of those roots
RedC
Member
It's also the foundation, or backbone if you will, not only of American Music but Modern Music.
Toons
Member
Absolutely. Im glad that's beig highlighted more in media around this... even that last Elvis movie showed him growing up with the black church and discovering his passions there. Its an important part of our history and culture
kpopSuperstar
Member
I think virtually everyone knows that african-american blues and euro folk is the roots of modern music.
There, fixed that for you. Europe has a very rich musical tradition and that was a massive influence on american and modern music as well. We can all share in the credit.
Toons
Member
You'd be surprised at how easily such roots are ignored and then forgotten. I'd wager many modern listeners dont understand the history behind the music they listen to. Its an art thats not nearly respected as it should be
Werewolf Jones
Member
Most people live life ephemerally. It's not specific to modern times.
Toons
Member
"We"?
No one here has done anything. Theres no credit to be shared amongst us, there's no we.
And yes, classical music is great and has contributed to the study of music theory immensely, but id argue classical was not the music of the common American people, that was the music of the europeans and had alreadyevolved and broke commonplace. The sentiment that drives american spirit, from the downtrodden to those who seek the American dream, to this day was not found there, it was too polished and clean for that, and it cordially wasn't being played by those who made the journey here after this country was established and welcomed others into its borders.
What drove what we think of now was originated with the blues, and gospel and the like and it often eschewed the traditional hallmarks of musical notation by means of improvisation and making do with what you had. Theres an important distinction there and this movie highlights that.
Music, more than almost anything, is a living representation of culture that only exists in the moment. So yes, I think "we", as current interpreters of music, was well as cultural descendants of the various groups that forged music as it is today, can share credit.
I disagree. Certain musical trends do lean more heavily on it, for sure.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Daniel Kaluuya was in Skins wtf? I thought it was Black Mirror that made him huge.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Doom85
Member
DKehoe
Member
Nosferatu
Doom85
Member
3liteDragon
Member
Saw it in IMAX 70mm yesterday, solid 9/10 for me. Really enjoyed it, best movie of the year so far. Some of the imagery in this film man, wish Coogler used more of the IMAX format.
chromhound
Member
The movie was pretty good but so many unanswered questions
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
We need a prequel with the SmokeStack bros working for Al Capone in Chicago and the native vampire hunters chasing the main vampire.
someone hire me
someone hire me
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RedC
Member
It didn't need fixing.
It is well-established that Europe has a rich musical tradition that influenced certain aspects of American and modern music. However, European traditions alone cannot account for the distinct development of these musical forms.
American and modern music — particularly genres such as blues, jazz, rock, and hip-hop — are rooted primarily in African American musical traditions. These traditions emerged from the fusion of African rhythmic, melodic, and expressive elements with European musical structures, profoundly shaped by the lived experiences of African Americans under slavery, segregation, and systemic oppression.
This distinction is important, as the transatlantic slave trade also brought Africans to the Caribbean and Latin America; however, the musical traditions that developed in those regions evolved differently and did not give rise to the same genres or forms of musical expression that African Americans in the United States created — traditions that became foundational to American and modern music.
European folk and African American music both contributed to modern music, but in different domains. European traditions provided the melodic/harmonic framework (major/minor scales, ballad forms, and instrumental types) that underpins Western art and country/folk musicbritannica.comeif.co.uk. In contrast, African American traditions supplied the rhythmic, expressive core of jazz, blues, rock, and contemporary pop. As the Smithsonian curator writes, Black Americans brought "syncopated, swung, remixed, rocked, and rapped music" that became the lingua franca of American musicmusic.si.edu. In other words, African American music introduced call-and-response, blue notes, strong backbeats and improvisation, which now define genres worldwide.
- European folk influences: emphasis on diatonic scales/modes (as in classical music)britannica.com; narrative ballads and folk dances carried to the Americaseif.co.uk; contributed heavily to country and early folk-rock.
- African American influences: introduced syncopation, blues scale, gospel harmonies, and rhythmic innovation; gave birth to blues, jazz, R&B, rock, funk, soul, hip-hop and modern dance music, which dominate global popular cultureloc.govmusic.si.edu.
All evidence points to African American music having a broader foundational impact on modern popular genres. There is virtually no rock, soul or hip-hop without African American roots. By contrast, European folk roots are strongest in niche or regional genres (folk/country) rather than the global pop mainstream. In summary, while European folk traditions added melodic and harmonic context, African American musical innovation has been more foundational overall in shaping modern rock, pop, hip-hop, EDM and other major stylesmusic.si.edutimeline.carnegiehall.orgbritannica.com.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I have to agree. You wouldn't have Elvis if it wasn't for those early songs he used from black artists and his upbringing in black churches and around black artists. You wouldn't have the Beatles if not for Muddy Waters and the Blues and Little Richard and Chuck Berry. To say African Americans didn't HUGELY impact American music is to downplay the songs, song writers, innovation and new styles of music and dance that came from sorrow, poverty, terror and ambition.
See, that poster promises the movie I WANTED to see, but not quite what he delivered.
I was hoping for more grindhouse/blacksploitation influences. I liked what I got, but it was steak bearnaise and I was expecting a medium rare seared tomahawk.
I agree, but those same roots needed to flourish and they wouldn't without the fertile ground provided by lots of other musical cultures. Hell Dee dee Chandler was himself of mixed race and it allowed him to play both sides of New Orleans culture and fuse it all together in making the drum kit, so you can't really place one influence higher than another. If anything, it was the need for smaller and smaller groups to replicate a "big sound" that collapsed the instruments into packages that individuals could play and thus influence individually, versus the need for perfect synchronization in an orchestra.
If African sounds were paramount for the success of american music, then you would expect that Africa itself, being the wellspring, would be a leader as well. But that isn't the case. Music relies on so many influences for success that you can't pull out one aspect like "rhythm" and put it over harmony. Plus the main reason why that music is so widespread is because American ANYTHING dominates the world (for now). I bet if we have this conversation 100 years ago or 100 years from now it would be totally different, as the attribution of "influence" relies heavily on what the observer values and what narrative they want to push.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
From Dusk Till Dawn meets Crossroads.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
After a while I have stopped giving a shit what certain critics have rated movies. I'm sure some movies I love they have given shit score to, others I hate they love. But this looks good.
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Pimpollo818
Member
I haven't isolated myself enough to think it about it too deeply, but does anyone have any thoughts as to the origins of the vampire that starts the whole thing? He mentions he's allured to Sammy's music b/c he wants to be reuinited with his ancestors. I didn't pick up any clues on who these people could be. I crave an extended cut where we spend more time with him. He has great charisma and warranted more screen time, get to know his backstory. Loved the movie.
Roufianos
Member
Literally one of the best scenes in the whole film.
DKehoe
Member
I think there's intentionally a lot of mystery to him, which probably works best. My assumption is that he fled Ireland long ago, made his way to the U.S., and has been drifting from place to place ever since. It seems the Choctaw had tracked him down and were in pursuit at the point we first see him.
Vampires are immortal, which comes with obvious advantages, but it's also mentioned that their souls remain trapped within their bodies. That's why Annie insists on being killed rather than turned, she wants to be reunited with the daughter she lost. But Sammie's gift brings the past to you. It seems he wanted Sammie to help him reconnect with his past without having to give up his vampiric life.
Doom85
Member
He'd be a solid choice, but I wonder also if Guillermo del Toro would be up for it if he was offered. He directed Blade 2, and after its solid box office performance, he was offered to do either Blade 3 or a film based on the Hellboy comics as that had been a project del Toro had wanted for a while due to him loving the Hellboy comics. As we know, he picked Hellboy, but I assumed he enjoyed making Blade 2, it's just Hellboy was his higher priority passion, so it's possible he'd be up for directing a new Blade film if offered.
I think Remmick or whatever his name is was a musical prodigy just like Preacher Boy, but he was claimed by the Devil back in the 1800's or so. This would explain his fondness for irish jigs and well choreographed dance sequences. So he represents one path for Preacher Boy.
As for the "one love" message, I'm guessing that is largely a lure, not supposed to be a literal "we are all one, equal, and we love it" utopia. I think the vassals he creates are more like drugged ravers than fully conscious, competent, and willing participants. Only his death frees some to then live a life on their own instead of in his thrall. I'm assuming the Choktaw rooted out a little harem/commune he had going somewhere. Hard to say how often or how violently he feeds when not in recruitment mode. As seen on screen the vamps are closer to World War Z zombies in the high R0 rate they spread, you'd think they would dominate the world quite quickly, so I'm guessing Remick was just plussing up his army to take Preacher Boy but doesn't routinely run around converting entire villages.
I agree, he'd be a good pick, but Del Toros project completion rate is even lower than Henry Cavills, so pick a guy who can actually deliver a finished film, not just troll for pre-production money
Doom85
Member
I agree, he'd be a good pick, but Del Toros project completion rate is even lower than Henry Cavills, so pick a guy who can actually deliver a finished film, not just troll for pre-production money
Hey, hey, hey, you can cool it with that pessimistic attitude, mister! Del Toro is a man with a vision he must carefully construct, and sometimes that takes years, or, apparently, decades, BUT REST ASSURED, his film adaptations of At the Mountains of Madness, DC Comics' Deadman, Dr. Strange, Halo, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, the manga Monster, and the fifty other projects he was attached to and then we heard nothing about afterwards, surely they're all coming any day now!
Right?
RedC
Member
Puscifer
Member
I'm dating an architect and he's gotten me appreciating things that came before me in a way I've never done before. I can't look a Spanish revival or Brutalist architecture the same anymore when you know the history of it, it adds so much to a building it's crazy.
Anywho, saw it in IMAX with a buddy today and I loved the final fight scenes slow opening vs imaxs regular instant ratio shift. Best use of slowly opening the frame since everything, everywhere all at once or Dune 2, I can't decide so they're just going into the same pile lol
Edit: the post credits epilogue was beautiful, even after all that I felt like it was my favorite part. There's something about violent movies ending with a rejection of what happened or acknowledgement and peace of mind like Pulp Fiction that I've always appreciated.
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Rocky Road to Dublin will always make me think of that scene now.
Jaybe
Member
Saw it on cheap Tuesday night and thought it was okay. Feel a bit gaslight by these critic reviews and other forums calling this a masterpiece.
Positives
Old drunk piano player was a fun character
2 great musical sequences, plus some other good songs mixed in
It was a good start up to when they moved on from the grocery store
Some of the cinematography
Some good humorous lines
Negatives
Twins angle made for some badly shot conversation and scenes focusing on just one of the characters
Time from grocery scene to first vampire was boring, only the guitar in the car scene was good in that time period. Saw people check the time during this. They seemed bored too.
The 3 epilogue scenes didn't add much, 2nd one was fine to know where main characters wound up, but it went too long. Klan shoot up seemed like a satirical parody of a goofy revenge film, good shots to use in the trailer I guess
Script as far as dialogue goes was rather poor
3/5
Positives
Old drunk piano player was a fun character
2 great musical sequences, plus some other good songs mixed in
It was a good start up to when they moved on from the grocery store
Some of the cinematography
Some good humorous lines
Negatives
Twins angle made for some badly shot conversation and scenes focusing on just one of the characters
Time from grocery scene to first vampire was boring, only the guitar in the car scene was good in that time period. Saw people check the time during this. They seemed bored too.
The 3 epilogue scenes didn't add much, 2nd one was fine to know where main characters wound up, but it went too long. Klan shoot up seemed like a satirical parody of a goofy revenge film, good shots to use in the trailer I guess
Script as far as dialogue goes was rather poor
3/5
scoobidoo112
Member
I've had the soundtrack on loop for the last few days during work. So delicious.
If they put it back in IMAX again after Thunderbolts's exclusive 2 weeks, I'll probably see it a third time.
If they put it back in IMAX again after Thunderbolts's exclusive 2 weeks, I'll probably see it a third time.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I hate to say this but I'm gonna wait for streaming. Especially as it's heavy on dialogue and my hearing isn't the best.
Doom85
Member
Well, at least you've got something to look forward to. Hope you enjoy it when you can, and stay spoiler free.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I'm not saying this isnt the greatest thing since sliced bread because I haven't watched it. I'm waiting for streaming but the trend of every movie being the best started with the Star Wars Prequels and never let up.
I wouldn't say it's the "greatest thing ever" but it's a really good movie that makes use of the cinema set up. The sound mixing on this was top notch and I'd feel a lot of the vibes would be lost without the booming bass and surround sound. Especially during that one scene already mentioned above with the timeline of music being mixed around you.
