Ryan Coogler's 'Sinners' opens to a 100% critic score on Rotten Tomatoes

The second trailer in the OP has so many spoilers I'm surprised they decided to run it.
people who cut trailers generally aren't the same as the people who made the movie, they are studio marketing department that absolutely don't care and will put whatever they think will draw more people to come watch the movie in the trailer; it's a completely formulaic, purely about numbers process and they don't give a shit if they even upset the director by producing a spoiler reel.
There's probably only a handful of directors who can demand they cut their own trailers.
 
I know I'm in the minority. I thought the movie was OK. I guess it was expectations. I wanted a good vampire movie with action and cool characters. I got another Koogler black-drama, racism with a strong lead, but trying to shoehorn the black culture drama to supernatural just didn't work for me when the climax and conclusion was rushed and lame (my opinion). I actually think the first hour was the best part of the movie, up until the great music scene. After the bad guys show up I felt the movie just didn't work.

Yep, I felt the same. It was indeed an OK movie, but all the different flavours at the second half just didn't fit that well. Sometimes the horror parts felt kinda goofy, sometimes the movie took itself too seriously, sometimes the movie felt like a musical (which is cool) and a bit like michael jackson's thriller music video (I bet that was intentional). The movie tried to evoke too many different emotions in the viewer at once.
The music was amazing, though. So all in all, I wasn't bored and somewhat well entertained, but it's not a movie I would watch more than once.
 
It's was pretty good, I didn't like a couple of bits in it though.
The bit where he was singing in the barn and hip hop people and other more recent "artists" were dancing around and even djing 🤦

Took me straight out of the movie

The 1.43:1 aspect ratio didn't do much for the movie either!
 
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It's was pretty good, I didn't like a couple of bits in it though.
The bit where he was singing in the barn and hip hop people and other more recent "artists" were dancing around and even djing 🤦

Took me straight out of the movie
Thought that was the most memorable scene in the film, but I can see how it might break immersion.
 
It's was pretty good, I didn't like a couple of bits in it though.
The bit where he was singing in the barn and hip hop people and other more recent "artists" were dancing around and even djing 🤦

Took me straight out of the movie

The 1.43:1 aspect ratio didn't do much for the movie either!
I liked it, though I can see how it might take some people out of the moment. But the concept is that Sammie's musical talent connects the past, present, and future, so it's a way to show that. For me it also conveys how music, throughout history and across cultures, has always been something that brings people together.
 
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It's was pretty good, I didn't like a couple of bits in it though.
The bit where he was singing in the barn and hip hop people and other more recent "artists" were dancing around and even djing 🤦

Took me straight out of the movie

The 1.43:1 aspect ratio didn't do much for the movie either!
I thought it was the most memorable scene of the movie.

Plus, it was a perfect example of showing and not telling.
 
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I thought it was the most memorable scene of the movie.

Plus, it was a perfect example of showing and not telling.

Agreed, not to mention it was "seemingly" one uncut shot (though they likely hid a cut or two in there, for example the movie Birdman with Michael Keaton presents itself as if the entire film is one uncut shot but there's actually about 15 or so cuts IIRC that they hide; I remember one part where the camera passes an empty hallway that was obvious there was a cut hidden there).

I think it also really highlights how important music is and it showcases those whose souls are truly free even if their physical freedom is sometimes threatened.

Obviously our leads show a passion for music and it brings them all together in celebration and happiness. But even the vampires themselves show a love for music, even showcasing their own impressive talent to try to gain entry to the club, and they all sing and dance together at one point after turning all those who had left the club. While their methods may not have been justifiable, it does show they are being genuine in how connected and free they are in spirit.

On the other hand, while he may be leading a church that utilizes music, Sammie's father shows a narrow view of certain music and its power, choosing to see only a narrow-minded view of it and trying to deny his son that which brings him joy and a sense of freedom.

Sammie makes the right choice at the end and becomes free with his music, and thus gets to witness different eras of music through his lifetime.
 
I know I'm in the minority. I thought the movie was OK. I guess it was expectations. I wanted a good vampire movie with action and cool characters. I got another Koogler black-drama, racism with a strong lead, but trying to shoehorn the black culture drama to supernatural just didn't work for me when the climax and conclusion was rushed and lame (my opinion). I actually think the first hour was the best part of the movie, up until the great music scene. After the bad guys show up I felt the movie just didn't work.

I don't get what you mean by your statement.

When I saw the trailer, I immediately got that they're in the Jim Crow South during the height of the blues era post World War 1.

I haven't seen it yet so maybe I'll somewhat get what you're saying once I see it but... From my understanding, it wasn't supposed to be a straight up vampire or horror movie.

But like you said, expectations.

I'm going to go into it sans that.

Edit: oh and it's "Coogler".
 
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As a vampire film, I didn't really care for it. As a journey of a young black musician who had a crazy night, it was pretty good. I'll post more thoughts in the morning.
 
I don't get what you mean by your statement.

When I saw the trailer, I immediately got that they're in the Jim Crow South during the height of the blues era post World War 1.

I haven't seen it yet so maybe I'll somewhat get what you're saying once I see it but... From my understanding, it wasn't supposed to be a straight up vampire or horror movie.

But like you said, expectations.

I'm going to go into it sans that.

Edit: oh and it's "Coogler".
Going by the trailer in the OP, the movie paints a picture of a creepy thriller movie combined with action scenes with blood loving vampires. Fire, guns, tommy gun blasting etc... I think Jordan even flicks a hand grenade pin.

As a vampire film, I didn't really care for it. As a journey of a young black musician who had a crazy night, it was pretty good. I'll post more thoughts in the morning.
I'll give it a watch when it comes toe streaming. But how close is the trailer to the movie? Seems like it supposed to progress into a vampire surviving movie. But is the actual movie way different?
 
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Is this another black panther situation, where everyone says its the second coming, and deserves Oscars for everything, even though it's just an average film
 
Going by the trailer in the OP, the movie paints a picture of a creepy thriller movie combined with action scenes with blood loving vampires. Fire, guns, tommy gun blasting etc... I think Jordan even flicks a hand grenade pin.


I'll give it a watch when it comes toe streaming. But how close is the trailer to the movie? Seems like it supposed to progress into a vampire surviving movie. But is the actual movie way different?
The trailer is 'misleading' in a few points, like they show one of the very last scenes in the film just to jazz it up with some action but that scene is basically an after thought.

I'll spoiler this stuff since there isn't a specific discussion thread. But I'll try to be vague as to not spoil too much. ok I spoil a fair amount actually

As a horror vampire film, it adds very little. There is a nice twist on the vampires motives but its severely under baked and under explored. The film tries TOO MUCH and ends up hamstringing itself. How the vamps operate, the speed at which they turn, their "brotherly love" appeal, the singular influence of the master vamp, has he totally dominated his vassals, made them slaves or puppets, crushed them into a Borg-like collective, totally consumed them a la The Thing? Or is he "the future", like I am Legend, and petty singular humans with their disagreements and strive are the archaic past? Does he represent "white culture" that only accepts you, and WILL accept you, if you but drop your own culture and join in? Having him be irish is a confusing choice because from 1930s America the difference between Irish and black is but a hairs gap (though growing at that point).

Musically I thought the irish songs CRUSHED the folksy blues stuff, especially that overly long 'black music through time' mash-up. Other than twerking girl I liked that scene and grokked it, but the songs sung inside the Juke were not done nearly as well as the irish stuff outside, IMHO. But I'm a sucker for that stuff, was almost hoping we'd get some modern irish bands to show up. So if they had focused more on Preacher Boy, his power of music, the connection with master vamp (MV) drawing him in, more specifics on what that power can do, why MV wants it, his sorrow and loneliness, and a better understanding of the consequences of wielding such power (versus it just being explained to us several times, the worst "show don't tell" violation in the film). Obviously his gift leads a married woman to stray, 2 in fact, something that is oddly glossed over in the film that half the women in it are street trash.

The twins aspect I think is what really leads this film astray. It was unnecessary, overly complicated, had no real pay-off, led to some confusion when neither had their characteristic hat, and quite frankly you could have has ONE 'Smokestack" who fathered a child who died, that drove him into the arms of a white hussy he knew from childhood, then he fled from both and I think they could have trimmed 20 minutes from the first act and set up a more dynamic relationship triangle for the second act. The "Seven Samurai" recruitment stuff was a lot of fun, just the dynamic of the two sides of the main street was worth the price of admission, but it ate into the MV development or focus on Preacher Boy as the actual catalyst in the film. Stephen King would have NAILED this script, and had as superfluous and silly a closer.

The Klan felt very tacked on. I bet this film was initially sans vamps, but that stuff was added in to make it more marketable. The Klan laying siege to the Juke makes a LOT more sense versus them showing up in broad daylight, wearing no hoods, and planning on slaughtering......who exactly at 7 in the morning? So the Klan gets relegated to a trivial threat for the one bit of major gun action in the film, a nice trailer bait and switch. The 'payoff' of stack dying and seeing his baby, was touching but he didn't need any of that to get there.

And this doesn't consider how chopped up and erratic the whole vamp seige stuff was. Where did those poor sharecroppers get those three banjos? They attacked 80 people in the parking lot and no one inside noticed? It jumps from "don't let them in" to "come and get it motherfuckers" and some sort of crude ambush? The garlic scene was cool but at least 2 of them looked like they were palming the clove, and medicine woman seemed SO SURE of her lore but then a silver(?) disc to the side of MV and all his vassals feel it, so why wouldn't killing him alone potentially free the others? It's so casually decided that the just hours old changed are truly dead, truly evil, truly beyond recovery and thus can be summarily killed with no remorse.


Anyway, I'm probably being harsher than I intend. It is a well done film and flows pretty well. Hailee Steinfeld is SMOKING, as is the singer lady. The allure of 20's/30's era dress is on full display. Though a wool suit complete with vest and tie....in the South, even in October.....yikes.
 
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The trailer is 'misleading' in a few points, like they show one of the very last scenes in the film just to jazz it up with some action but that scene is basically an after thought.

I'll spoiler this stuff since there isn't a specific discussion thread. But I'll try to be vague as to not spoil too much. ok I spoil a fair amount actually

As a horror vampire film, it adds very little. There is a nice twist on the vampires motives but its severely under baked and under explored. The film tries TOO MUCH and ends up hamstringing itself. How the vamps operate, the speed at which they turn, their "brotherly love" appeal, the singular influence of the master vamp, has he totally dominated his vassals, made them slaves or puppets, crushed them into a Borg-like collective, totally consumed them a la The Thing? Or is he "the future", like I am Legend, and petty singular humans with their disagreements and strive are the archaic past? Does he represent "white culture" that only accepts you, and WILL accept you, if you but drop your own culture and join in? Having him be irish is a confusing choice because from 1930s America the difference between Irish and black is but a hairs gap (though growing at that point).

Musically I thought the irish songs CRUSHED the folksy blues stuff, especially that overly long 'black music through time' mash-up. Other than twerking girl I liked that scene and grokked it, but the songs sung inside the Juke were not done nearly as well as the irish stuff outside, IMHO. But I'm a sucker for that stuff, was almost hoping we'd get some modern irish bands to show up. So if they had focused more on Preacher Boy, his power of music, the connection with master vamp (MV) drawing him in, more specifics on what that power can do, why MV wants it, his sorrow and loneliness, and a better understanding of the consequences of wielding such power (versus it just being explained to us several times, the worst "show don't tell" violation in the film). Obviously his gift leads a married woman to stray, 2 in fact, something that is oddly glossed over in the film that half the women in it are street trash.

The twins aspect I think is what really leads this film astray. It was unnecessary, overly complicated, had no real pay-off, led to some confusion when neither had their characteristic hat, and quite frankly you could have has ONE 'Smokestack" who fathered a child who died, that drove him into the arms of a white hussy he knew from childhood, then he fled from both and I think they could have trimmed 20 minutes from the first act and set up a more dynamic relationship triangle for the second act. The "Seven Samurai" recruitment stuff was a lot of fun, just the dynamic of the two sides of the main street was worth the price of admission, but it ate into the MV development or focus on Preacher Boy as the actual catalyst in the film. Stephen King would have NAILED this script, and had as superfluous and silly a closer.

The Klan felt very tacked on. I bet this film was initially sans vamps, but that stuff was added in to make it more marketable. The Klan laying siege to the Juke makes a LOT more sense versus them showing up in broad daylight, wearing no hoods, and planning on slaughtering......who exactly at 7 in the morning? So the Klan gets relegated to a trivial threat for the one bit of major gun action in the film, a nice trailer bait and switch. The 'payoff' of stack dying and seeing his baby, was touching but he didn't need any of that to get there.

And this doesn't consider how chopped up and erratic the whole vamp seige stuff was. Where did those poor sharecroppers get those three banjos? They attacked 80 people in the parking lot and no one inside noticed? It jumps from "don't let them in" to "come and get it motherfuckers" and some sort of crude ambush? The garlic scene was cool but at least 2 of them looked like they were palming the clove, and medicine woman seemed SO SURE of her lore but then a silver(?) disc to the side of MV and all his vassals feel it, so why wouldn't killing him alone potentially free the others? It's so casually decided that the just hours old changed are truly dead, truly evil, truly beyond recovery and thus can be summarily killed with no remorse.


Anyway, I'm probably being harsher than I intend. It is a well done film and flows pretty well. Hailee Steinfeld is SMOKING, as is the singer lady. The allure of 20's/30's era dress is on full display. Though a wool suit complete with vest and tie....in the South, even in October.....yikes.
All fair complaints and I concur with them, but they didn't really impact my enjoyment much. The movie succeeds on great vibes with the setting, characters, music, and creativity.
 
All fair complaints and I concur with them, but they didn't really impact my enjoyment much. The movie succeeds on great vibes with the setting, characters, music, and creativity.
You cant deny that you thought the film would boil down to a "devil came down to georgia" banjo/guitar showoff though, right?

I was secretly hoping for a full on rock opera. Get Alice Cooper in there as Satan.
 
You cant deny that you thought the film would boil down to a "devil came down to georgia" banjo/guitar showoff though, right?

I was secretly hoping for a full on rock opera. Get Alice Cooper in there as Satan.
Yep, I wanted it, and still not sure why it didn't happen.
 
It was good but not like AMAZING. Final act felt a bit weak and had a few whack moments.

8/10

Much better than I was expecting, took like 20 minutes before I started to feel the movie was good.
 
Story reminds me of Bobby Johnson.

Yeh I definitely got that vibe watching it. Sammie's musical ability with the blues tapping into/attracting the supernatural really feels like it's playing with that myth. And maybe it's just that they're blues musicians form the same area in a similar era but Sammie's costume also felt like it was influenced by him.

image.png

250px-Robert_Johnson.png
 
Yeh I definitely got that vibe watching it. Sammie's musical ability with the blues tapping into/attracting the supernatural really feels like it's playing with that myth. And maybe it's just that they're blues musicians form the same area in a similar era but Sammie's costume also felt like it was influenced by him.

image.png

250px-Robert_Johnson.png
This is what all makes it more harrowing.

He was a part of this,
 
I thought it had less to do with Bobby Johnson in particular and more to do with the blues being known as the devil's music during this time.
Yeah, it's all inspiration from that cultural motif.

Always found it earie and fascinating at the same time. Fun rabbit hole to go down.
 
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So I dug a bit into the "haint" referenced in the film.


What I find FASCINATING is the "haint blue" color used to ward off the evil spirit....and then now we have a "blue roof can't be hit by orbital DEW (direct energy weapon)" consipracy theory. ANOTHER example of white folk appropriating black culture :P

I kinda wished they had leaned more into the hoodoo protective magic instead of the "invite me in" stuff. Especially since stack gets turned and he is co-owner of the Juke, shouldn't he be able to invite the others? Public spaces are usually exempt from this protective effect in most films anyway, versus your HOME, not a place you literally bought hours before. Again, quibbles but I'm particular in my vampire lore because I feel like a lot of writers don't play them out well given their power set and weaknesses. There is a lot of creativity you can weave in but it so often devolves into a wrestling match or some super-obvious attack the vamp walks right into. For example, one of my ABSOLUTE fav vamp scenes is from the 80's Fright Night, where the cross has no effect until (spoilers :P the wielder has ACTUAL FAITH, and only then does the cross have power. Awesome stuff. Or Peter Watts ancient vamps from Blindsight that can't visually process right angles (which rarely existed in nature when they evolved) and it triggers seizures. Cool extensions of lore.
 
I don't get what you mean by your statement.

When I saw the trailer, I immediately got that they're in the Jim Crow South during the height of the blues era post World War 1.

I haven't seen it yet so maybe I'll somewhat get what you're saying once I see it but... From my understanding, it wasn't supposed to be a straight up vampire or horror movie.

But like you said, expectations.

I'm going to go into it sans that.

Edit: oh and it's "Coogler".

It would be weird to make a movie set in Mississippi in 1932 with black characters and NOT having racism be a part of the plot.

The movie was fantastic. You should definitely see it.
 
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Or Peter Watts ancient vamps from Blindsight that can't visually process right angles (which rarely existed in nature when they evolved) and it triggers seizures. Cool extensions of lore.
Someone else has read Blindsight?!
 
It would be weird to make a movie set in 1932 with black characters and NOT having racism be a part of the plot.
Especially in Mississippi.

Out of all the southern states in the Deep South during that era, Mississippi was the worst.

  • During Jim Crow era, Mississippi was one of the most violently repressive states.
  • Lynching capital: From 1882–1968, Mississippi had the most recorded lynchings of any state (over 650).
    White Citizens' Councils: After the Brown v. Board decision in 1954, Mississippi became the headquarters for these upper-class segregationist groups who fought desegregation with legal and economic pressure (not just violence).
    Emmett Till was murdered in Mississippi in 1955 — his case became a flashpoint for the civil rights movement.
 
So I dug a bit into the "haint" referenced in the film.


What I find FASCINATING is the "haint blue" color used to ward off the evil spirit....and then now we have a "blue roof can't be hit by orbital DEW (direct energy weapon)" consipracy theory. ANOTHER example of white folk appropriating black culture :P

I kinda wished they had leaned more into the hoodoo protective magic instead of the "invite me in" stuff. Especially since stack gets turned and he is co-owner of the Juke, shouldn't he be able to invite the others? Public spaces are usually exempt from this protective effect in most films anyway, versus your HOME, not a place you literally bought hours before. Again, quibbles but I'm particular in my vampire lore because I feel like a lot of writers don't play them out well given their power set and weaknesses. There is a lot of creativity you can weave in but it so often devolves into a wrestling match or some super-obvious attack the vamp walks right into. For example, one of my ABSOLUTE fav vamp scenes is from the 80's Fright Night, where the cross has no effect until (spoilers :P the wielder has ACTUAL FAITH, and only then does the cross have power. Awesome stuff. Or Peter Watts ancient vamps from Blindsight that can't visually process right angles (which rarely existed in nature when they evolved) and it triggers seizures. Cool extensions of lore.
 
I've had plenty of time to reflect on the movie, and I really appreciated the religious cult aspect of the vampires. I couldn't help but think about the Manson Family and Jim Jones' People's Temple as possible influences.

The Manson Family outwardly operated under the guise of hippie ideals—peace, love, and freedom—but beneath that surface, they were white supremacist, psychotic killers intent on inciting a race war. In that sense, Sinners feels like an inversion of that dynamic.

By contrast, Jim Jones and the People's Temple were remarkably inclusive, diverse, and progressive for their time, placing a strong emphasis on racial equality. This focus greatly enhanced their appeal, particularly among African American communities. Their use of joyful, celebratory music—blending gospel, soul, pop, and folk—further strengthened the sense of unity and drew more people in.

I sense major influences from this history in the portrayal of the vampires in Sinners, particularly in how they operated and how appealing they would have been in a colorblind, multicultural society set against the backdrop of the Jim Crow-era Deep South.

I think that's something some viewers may be missing: why the setting and the theme of racism were so integral to the story. [/Spoiler]
 
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I slept on the hype for this and after seeing it rather spontaneously tonight, I suspect that a lot of people will be disappointed. It is however a movie that people will keep talking about for quite a while I think. It has the potential to become somewhat of a cult classic.
 
I slept on the hype for this and after seeing it rather spontaneously tonight, I suspect that a lot of people will be disappointed. It is however a movie that people will keep talking about for quite a while I think. It has the potential to become somewhat of a cult classic.
I think the movie will be too successful to be a cult classic.

It's expected to cross over 100 million total domestically this weekend.
 
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Movie looks very interesting and I've heard great things about the songs. But I have a bit of a hard time sometimes with horror that is too genre-bending. Like horror comedies that dilute the horror elements.
For me it also conveys how music, throughout history and across cultures, has always been something that brings people together.
Like Wagner.
 
That 2nd weekend hold shows you the power of word of mouth. Marvel, especially of late, lives for 1 weekend and then WOM kills it off. We'll see next weekend how it deals with Thunderbolts. I think Sinners has more date night appeal though and might surprise.
 
Warner Bros execs are so wowed, they're stopping by LA multiplexes throughout the weekend to observe the jawdropping audience reactions from filled auditoriums for the phenomenon that is Sinners, that movie now at a massive $45M second weekend, -6%, a magnificent hold for a R-rated horror movie up there with Heart Eyes (+19%) and Get Out (-15%). As we told you in the previous update, this is due to the broadening audience for the movie beyond its horror and male demos. There's a sense out there that the box office is finally on a roll. The trick is, major studios, not having us lapse back into famine. Warners/Legendary's A Minecraft Movie is also higher with a fourth hearty weekend of $22M in 4th place (a result that's on par with the fourth weekend of Rogue One: A Star Wars Story — just to give you some perspective on the continuing power of the feature take of the Mojang game).
 
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Watched it twice in IMAX now

genuinely great movie.

Most unique horror film I've seen in years

Fantastic score

Amazing cast

MBJ should be nominated for best performance

All around fucking loved it

Great to see it's a huge success
 
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