Support NeoGAF

[Jesb]

I hope this is the industry moving away from woke. Just make good fucken games.

 

[DussyPestroyer]

That's cool but the game looks kinda generic.

 

[Topher]

That's cool but the game looks kinda generic.

edit: dammit SmokedMeat beat me to it

 

[Kataploom]

It's basically normal people with shark mindset taking the chance left by other companies to capitalize on... Normal stuff... Literally they did nothing different than what's supposed to be done, being normal lol

 

[PhillMeCream]

That's cool but the game looks kinda generic.

Everybody........Let stone this guy

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL

Show they them naked you dirty censors! Why so many clothes, are they woke or what?!? Are those puritains?!? Most of the guys were half naked before... Those guys are a fraud! Come on, show their muscles! Most of the heroes in the 80 and 90's were naked!

 

[Humdinger]

Never heard of this game. I'll have to check it out.

edit: It looks good! I'm in.

 

[Insane Metal]

Yes! More of this please.

 

[adamsapple]

Been a while since one of those "turn your brain off and enjoy" kind of action games, this fills that void pretty nicely.

 

[EDMIX]

That's cool but the game looks kinda generic.

nah, not kinda, this game looks really, really generic lol

It looks like the game we'd use to describe the 360 generation lol

Finally a non-woke game with beautiful characters.

lol yessssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So clear and obvious they had an agenda omg, wtf, bbq (series of tic tok noises)

Been a while since one of those "turn your brain off and enjoy" kind of action games, this fills that void pretty nicely.

lol true, I'm not knocking it, some times that is a nice change of pace.

I just wish folks understood that as many on here love to cherry pick when they wish to see that as a genuine thing or not.

We get that with stuff like Yakuza, Tekken or games like this, but the moment someone brings up Call Of Duty or Assassin's Creed, they try to fucking act like suddenly all games need to be this high brow bullshit, noses in the air like that New Yorker cover lol

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

And this is how certain 'journalists' react to that.

 

[Topher]

And this is how certain 'journalists' react to that.

PC gamer has become a running joke in the game industry

 

[Hrk69]

Okey dokey here we go:

• They never said it sold 1 million. The head of SHIFT Up said they don't have an exact figure, but they know it sold at least 1 million, and that was announced in June 25th, which was 2 months after release, not 3. (https://gamestalk.net/post-192947/)
• Unless your name is Devil May Cry, 1 million is fairly standard for this particular genre. For comparison, it took Bayonetta 3, a series that's been around a lot longer than Stellar Blade and has a bigger following, just as long (potentially longer) to cross 1 million units. So for a brand new game in this genre, by an unproven studio making their first console game, 1 million in two months is really good.
• SHIFT UP announced they're making a PC Port and DLC for Stellar Blade. Doesn't seem like the type a thing a studio would invest money in if their game "flopped".
• A month after Stellar Blade released, SHIFT UP announced that Stellar Blade's sales were exceeding expectations.
• On the off chance you want to bring up Black Myth: Wukong, that game was a special case. Journey to the West is often regarding as the most popular literary work in Asia, and that game was China making a big footfall in the single player console market. It's popularity and sales were immensely boosted by China.

 

[Madflavor]

And this is how certain 'journalists' react to that.

I hope people never let them live this down. Don't care if it's two different reviewers, fuck that site. That's embarrassing.

 

[lmimmfn]

If it is the CEO of Saber, I'll buy the game tomorrow to invest in proper games.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

 

[Gojiira]

Yes now do the same again but where we get to play as a glorious Crisis Battlesuit Pilot, and a entry where we play as a Skitarii Ranger, then a game from the perspective of a Nid… Skies the limit for 40k games…Get to it Saber

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Resetera and their ilk right now:

The responses are predictable on that forum. There are a couple of comments which are in support of the CEO's response; I expect these posters to be met with a swift ban.

 

[Jaybe]

The responses are predictable on that forum. There are a couple of comments which are in support of the CEO's response; I expect these posters to be met with a swift ban.

So dense over there. “Choosing not to be political is being political”… umm no, that would be being apolitical.

 

[M1chl]

He works with Russians, so I would be very careful at such messaging.

 

[MMaRsu]

Yeah right, seems like a fake account. And it's stupid as fuck for outlets to pick it up.

 

[Ammogeddon]

Resetera and their ilk right now:

They aren’t happy about this are they.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Kotaku starts a witch hunt

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I hope it proves to be a fake account. Last thing SM2 needs is to be caught in the middle of the culture wars. This is why we can’t have nice things.

Wrong ...we need more devs to have the guts to make games like this and speak to the truth of what gamers actually want

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

You hit the nail in the head there.

In addition they made Kratos too soft. He should feel deep regret and shame for what he did in Greece, but still mantaining the spartan composture. The 2018 game did that well, but Ragnarok was a disappointment for me.

Not only was tge writing whack like that but they committed another sin that is really plaguing games today: extreme hand holding! How many times did Atreus and Freya tell Kratos where to go, what to do next, and how to solve this or that puzzle? It was absurd and yes, they did make Kratos too soft in this game ...like no this Kratos doesn't feel right. Even if you're going with this kind of redemption ark you didn't have to turn him into a male Karen..

 

[Jaybe]

CEO is based, basically confirmed it was really him on LinkedIn

 

[Bry0]

He’s not wrong, some games are obnoxious in their heavy handed attempts to put sociopolitical issues in the forefront of their story, and then purposely highlight it in an unnatural way that feels condescending to the player. It feels like being lectured to in a way that disrespects the intelligence of the audience.

It’s not even a bad thing to do necessarily, a developer absolutely has the right to make the game and tell the story they want, if they want to inject a political message into its their choice. The problem imo is that a lot of these people write absolute crap stories that are told sloppily because they are executed poorly and completely fail at expressing their ideas to a demographic that doesn’t already 100% agree.

And as an aside, there is nothing wrong with a cool immersive game. I think ultimately that is what most gamers want. Let me escape, let me live my power fantasy. If you want to get political then do it like an adult and respect your audience instead of producing some undergraduate twitter post tier slop.

Ugh

 

[Kacho]

CEO is based, basically confirmed it was really him on LinkedIn

Someone buy this man a bottle of whiskey.

 

[March Climber]

He works with Russians, so I would be very careful at such messaging.

It’s okay, it turns out that pandering is actually a-okay as long as it’s pandering to me and my team but not you and your team. It’s all sports at the end of the day.

Spoiler

(Still buying the game, just find the double standard funny)

 

[M1chl]

It’s okay, it turns out that pandering is actually a-okay as long as it’s pandering to me and my team but not you and your team. It’s all sports at the end of the day.

Spoiler

(Still buying the game, just find the double standard funny)

Its much less about teams and much more what Kremlin and its pawns aka citizens are doing, but that would be politics, thus not allowed in here

 

[March Climber]

Its much less about teams and much more what Kremlin and its pawns aka citizens are doing, but that would be politics, thus not allowed in here

Don't worry, my post was less about politics and more about how literally anyone will ignore potential problems if they are being pandered to correctly. It makes the anti-pander sentiment a joke.

 

[Draugoth]

Is it because of the Female Inquisitor?

 

[Plague Doctor]

Oh this is glorious. Purple forum members just got whiplash from the sudden 180 in a thread about this. Now this game has magically turned into shit for them.

Sometimes, reality is the best form of comedy.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

Oh this is glorious. Purple forum members just got whiplash from the sudden 180 in a thread about this. Now this game has magically turned into shit for them.

Sometimes, reality is the best form of comedy.

I just had a look at the thread. Some of the posts are insanity.

Some choice quotes over expressing a perfectly valid opinion for a video game

• "Human garbage"
• "I couldn't think of a more deserving person to have actual human fecal matter in their food."

And endless posts where they won't ever purchase or play the game. I find it amusing that such a benign statement "games that made him want to cry with their overblown attempts at messaging or imposing morals on gamers" has caused so much pain.

 

[Embearded]

I hope it proves to be a fake account. Last thing SM2 needs is to be caught in the middle of the culture wars. This is why we can’t have nice things.

Or it will sell even more because its a great game and more people will but it as a reaction to the ResetEra kind of folks.


In general, it's ok if you want to pass a message with your game/movie/book.
If there is a market for what you are selling then why not, go on and make it, everyone will be happy.
The problem with these "progressive" games and messages is that in the end they are not good games because their selling point is their essence is the political message and games need good gameplay first and foremost. That's how you end up with Dustborn and Concord.
You spend money and time on stuff that don't make the game better and you end up with poor gameplay.

 

[BlackTron]

It's basically normal people with shark mindset

 

[Sentenza]

Is it because of the Female Inquisitor?

"In the grim dark of the far future, there's only Ma'am".

Spoiler: BUT

that's supposed to be a Custode, not an Inquisitor, by the way.

 

[Bartski]

"In the grim dark of the far future, there's only Ma'am".

Spoiler: BUT

that's supposed to be a Custode, not an Inquisitor, by the way.

She got balls for the job

 

[Physiognomonics]

yup, we don't ask much, we just want old school gaming back without toxic woke-DEI garbage

I'm glad someone speaking up, and his message needs to amplified and repeated many times over

Pretty much this.

 

[samoilaaa]

be glad they managed to make this game before the changes to the 40k lore were made , the sequel will most likely have a very different tone

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

be glad they managed to make this game before the changes to the 40k lore were made , the sequel will most likely have a very different tone

What changes?

 

[Zathalus]

What changes?

Female Custodes? Or the Votaan, or retcon of the Necrons, or the retcon of the Emperor, or the introduction of the Tau? Really 40k lore changes every time a new codex comes out. Or a major book. Or a video game.

 

[samoilaaa]

What changes?

and its just the beginning

 

[Chuck Berry]

Kotaku caught word...

Why A Space Marine 2 Exec's YouTube Comment Became A Lightning Rod

The CEO of Saber Interactive left a controversial comment on Asmongold's channel

kotaku.com

Saved ya the clicks

A week ago, YouTuber LegendaryDrops posted a video called “Space Marine 2 is a reminder of what we lost,” in which he praised the game for its gruesome combat, beautiful presentation, and celebration of the Warhammer 40K world and lore. He tried to juxtapose it with modern games that are either live service hamster wheels or single-player experiences that feel narratively convoluted and full of bloated gameplay systems.

But he also talked about the game oozing “with so much masculinity that I feel like I’ve been in a desert for the last few years” and how it has “themes nobody wants to go near anymore [like] ‘for courage and honor, for brotherhood, for the emperor.’” LegendaryDrops went on to praise the limited banter among the characters, calling out games that eschew simple good and evil characters and more stoic dialogue.

The video didn’t blow up until a few days later when YouTuber Asmongold posted a nearly hour-long reaction to it, agreeing with most of LegendaryDrops’ points and elaborating on some of them. “The problem is not that [modern games] have complex characters, the problem is that their idea of a complex character is a self-indulgent loser that doesn’t have any charisma,” he said at one point.

There’s a two-step that happens in both assessments of Space Marine 2. Each argument conflates modern gaming trends that many players find exhausting with a more recent and boutique reactionary backlash against games accused of shoehorning progressive values into their narratives. These accusations are made whenever a title dares to showcase diverse characters or tell a story that doesn’t solely revolve around the straight white male that’s traditionally centered in video game box art.

Asmongold bringing up Dustborn, a recent action-adventure indie release about a band traveling across America, is specifically a reference to that. The game and the team behind it became such a target of “anti-woke” reactionaries online that the studio had to put out a statement. Rather than just disagreeing with the values expressed in the game, it became important for some to show that the game had financially failed and was bad because of those values, the same way some are now championing Space Marine 2 not just because it’s a fun or well-designed game, but in part claiming that it’s fun and well designed because it centers young men as the target demographic.

None of this would have particularly surprised anyone if it wasn’t for Saber Interactive’s own CEO appearing to join in the debate. Matt Karch, who co-founded the company in 2001, appeared to leave a comment on Asmongold’s reaction video near the end of last week. “Hey man,” it began. “CEO of Saber here. I love your videos. When we signed the deal to make Space Marine 2, all I wanted was a throwback game. We had the chance to work on something which by its nature was ‘old school.’ I can’t even comprehend many of the current games that we play these days. They are too complex and too much of an investment.”

It wasn’t until Monday, September 16, when a Space Marine 2 news account on Twitter recirculated that comment that more people became aware of it. Those in the comment section instantly flocked to it, flooding it with upvotes and positive responses fluctuating between things like “you are doing god’s work” and “I‘m glad we got games failing hard that have pronouns in them, like who tf plays these DEI games?”

A lot of people probably just thought, “Yeah, Space Marine 2 rules, I miss couch co-op and not grinding battle passes.” But for a contingent of the anti-woke gaming backlash, it vindicated the idea that at least one of the scourges of modern gaming is “overblown attempts at messaging or imposing morals on gamers.” All of this might have been easy to shrug off it not for a highly motivated and ongoing harassment campaign against story consultants who, earlier this year, became the boogiemen responsible for every person of color and pride flag that showed up in a major game.

A lot of people probably just thought, “Yeah, Space Marine 2 rules, I miss couch co-op and not grinding battle passes.” But for a contingent of the anti-woke gaming backlash, it vindicated the idea that at least one of the scourges of modern gaming is “overblown attempts at messaging or imposing morals on gamers.” All of this might have been easy to shrug off it not for a highly motivated and ongoing harassment campaign against story consultants who, earlier this year, became the boogiemen responsible for every person of color and pride flag that showed up in a major game.

The YouTube account behind the comment had no uploaded videos and was only created in May of this year. The bio read “CEO of Saber Interactive. Generic male of sorts - lover of loud guitars, violent games, fast cars and all sorts of whisky.” When asked to confirm if the comment really belonged to Karch, a spokesperson for Saber Interactive declined. “Saber is not commenting on this matter,” they told Kotaku in an email.

So far, 2024 has been full of breakout action games that have eschewed some of the excesses associated with open-world RPGs and grindy multiplayer games in favor of more streamlined and “old-school” feeling designs, and some (though not all) have been dragged into a culture war that seems to not so secretly be about entirely different things. Stellar Blade was a sci-fi Souls-lite that became mired in controversy around sexy costume censorship. Black Myth: Wukong was a fantasy action game in the mold of Ninja Gaiden that became a breeding ground for fake conspiracies around nonexistent attempts to get the game canceled. And now Space Marine 2, a straightforward shooter campaign with crunchy combat and dazzling set pieces, has become the latest Rorschach test for what ails modern blockbuster gaming.

There’s extra irony in a Warhammer 40K game becoming that crucible, given its openly fascist world-building and the fact that the owners of it have had to repeatedly remind the more toxic corners of its fanbase that “Warhammer is for everyone.” To the degree that Space Marine 2 doesn’t “impose” morals on the player, it’s only because the politics of its universe are so obviously bleak and abhorrent that regular people know to treat them as grim dark fantasy rather than a hero’s journey parable for 21st century virtue ethics.

There’s another hit game that’s recently bucked modern blockbuster gaming trends, and it’s Astro Bot. There are no daily quests, crafting systems, or XP grind in that either, just a crisp and highly refined mashup of Super Mario Odyssey and Crash Bandicoot collectathon platforming. Weirdly, no one seems to be obsessed with whether the cute little robot at the center of the game is a paragon of masculinity or secretly a vehicle for transmitting woke propaganda.

 

[Zathalus]

and its just the beginning

What’s wrong with a female Custodes? Nothing in the lore prevents a girl from becoming a Custodes. They’re not Space Marines.

 

[Kokoloko85]

This reverse psychology is working for sales lol. Wu Kong developer knew exactly what they were doing too

 

[BigBeauford]

Imagine thinking a shitpaper rag like Kotaku will get a company like Sabre to prostrate themselves to make that audience happy.

 

[Punished Miku]

Kotaku caught word...

Why A Space Marine 2 Exec's YouTube Comment Became A Lightning Rod

The CEO of Saber Interactive left a controversial comment on Asmongold's channel

kotaku.com

Saved ya the clicks

With Kotaku promoting the game like this, it might really blow up in sales even more.

 

[samoilaaa]

What’s wrong with a female Custodes? Nothing in the lore prevents a girl from becoming a Custodes. They’re not Space Marines.

give it time , you will see female space marines

 

[Lethal01]

I would like the game if the story was good though