Support NeoGAF

[BlackLagoon]

If you use one union actor, SAG insists that the whole project be union (film, tv, game, etc.).

Technically, if you want to use union actors you have to sign an agreement that all your projects have to be union, though those who want to typically sidestep this by creating a separate company that signs up with SAG and hires the actors.

Which is part of the reason it is difficult for new faces to break in to Hollywood. You need to be in SAG to get a major role, but you can't be in SAG unless you've got some established roles.

Not true. Non-members can work on a union project for up to 30 days under Taft-Hartley, and are then eligible to join. This is how you can have non-actor celebrities like models or musicians get major roles in films or TV.

That's why union members working on non-union things either go uncredited or use an alias, isn't it? So they can cover their asses.

Yes, it's not "allowed" under the union rules, but since there appears there was no attempt by SAG to go after them actors kept doing it. Though in 2005, the last time there was talk about voice actor striking, SAG did allegedly start sending out letters to various anime dub voice actors warning them that there would be crackdown on non-union work if the strike happened (it didn't.)

Huh, to be honest I was unaware of this. Let me get this straight. A non-union member can work on one union project. After that they can either join the union (and continue doing SAG-AFTRA work), or they can not join (at least for the moment - no idea if they can delay their joining until later) and continue as a non-member doing non-union work? Something like that?

Pretty much.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

What does a voice actor usually get paid anyway? The only non-celeb voice actor I can even think of is David Hayter(snake).

Current floor rate is $825, I believe. Someone check my math. In 2011, I think it was around $30/hour.

 

[Atcha43]

https://techraptor.net/content/sag-aftra-picket-ea-offices-sides-issue-statements

Interesting article on new developments of the strike. Seems like the publishers have agreed on the safety and health issues. Now it's just mainly the residuals that are the problem.

 

[Lime]

Devs need a union as well.

Hopefully this strike sparks something in devs as well.

 

[Syriel]

https://techraptor.net/content/sag-aftra-picket-ea-offices-sides-issue-statements

Interesting article on new developments of the strike. Seems like the publishers have agreed on the safety and health issues. Now it's just mainly the residuals that are the problem.

It has *always* been about the residuals. Actually, it has been about SAG insisting on calling the payments residuals.

The companies agreed to the health and safety stuff up front.

The companies agreed to increased pay. They just insisted on calling it increased pay rather than calling it residuals.

From an article that was linked earlier in this very thread:

The union essentially agreed to that deal – with two slight modifications. It wanted the bump to start on the first session instead of the second – which would amount to an automatic $50 pay increase on top of the 9% pay hike the companies had offered. But that’s not the strike issue. The strike was called because the union wanted to call this bonus a “buyout” of residuals instead of what the companies wanted to call it — “additional compensation.”

The companies, however, refused to call it a residuals buyout, saying that to do so would be “fundamentally unfair” to the hundreds of animators and designers who develop the games but receive no residuals at all – buyout or otherwise. Perhaps of equal concern to the companies is that once they start calling a bonus a residuals buyout, the union may start insisting on actual residuals payments the next time around.

In the lead up to the strike, Scott Witlin, the companies’ chief negotiator, told Deadline that “It would be unfortunate for SAG-AFTRA to take its members out on strike over terminology and not money.”

http://deadline.com/2016/10/sag-aftra-video-games-voice-actors-strike-1201840333/

 

[cj_iwakura]

Hopefully this strike sparks something in devs as well.

I saw some disturbing comments at Tech-Raptor that are calling the VAs selfish for not doing the work programmers do. Kind of sad to see in-fighting like that.

Maybe it serves me right for reading comments.



Did the companies agree to full disclosure of the work VAs would be doing?

 

[george_us]

I saw some disturbing comments at Tech-Raptor that are calling the VAs selfish for not doing the work programmers do. Kind of sad to see in-fighting like that.

Maybe it serves me right for reading comments.



Did the companies agree to full disclosure of the work VAs would be doing?

Attitudes like this are why developers are going to continue to get fucked in the ass for the foreseeable future.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I saw some disturbing comments at Tech-Raptor that are calling the VAs selfish for not doing the work programmers do. Kind of sad to see in-fighting like that.

Maybe it serves me right for reading comments.

Yeah, some of those comments were a mess.

We need SAG to succeed on this fight. And hopefully in the future we can see a push for unionization from developers.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yeah, most internet comments about any strike are a dumpster fire of people not actually understanding what the strike is about even if it's in the fucking article.

 

[Kanashimi]

Some additional links that share some useful info:

http://www.voperformancematters.com/
http://www.gameactorsforall.com/

Some articles on the subject:

http://gameraven.com/editorials/voice-actor-strike-game-industry-ugly-labor-habits

Neil Kaplan's fanpage had him picketing live, he has a few clips of Phil Lamarr and others giving speeches are people rally together: https://www.facebook.com/Neil-Kaplan-Voice-Actor-92511143541/?fref=ts

SAGAFTRA also posted videos on their Facebook from the EA picket line: https://www.facebook.com/SAGAFTRA/

DO NOT QUOTE ME HERE, but based on the video I was able to spot a few names that looked familiar to me such as Kaiji Tang, Taliesin Jaffe, Steve Blum, Phil Lamarr, Neil Kaplan, Kimlinh Tran, Sean Chiplock, Crispin Freeman, Joe Ochman, Robbie Daymond, Ellyn Stern, Stephanie Sheh, and Matt Yang King. I am not outing them, I'm happy they're picketing for something they believe in. I skimmed and there was some other guesses, but with all the sunglasses/hats it made it difficult (along with whoever kept the sun in the frame so the back lighting was apparent -shakes fist-).

As for the 25% of all actors things, various articles confirm this number comes specifically from the lawyers representing the game companies NOT from SAGAFTRA or anyone in the VO space. It's hard to say where this number came from or if there's any proof to it (or if it's being thrown around to make it seem like it doesn't matter). Until there's a source or study on this, I'd take this statement with a grain of salt.

Honestly, game devs in some form should have some sort of union. I hope the best for everyone.

 

[Jest Chillin]

I think it's burying the less a bit to say it's about what name they use for the extra pay. Technically it is but it seems more like the term residuals is SAG positioning for future leverage and also giving other areas of development an angle to make demands and the companies absolutely don't want that.

They don't want VA's OR Devs getting deserved residual pay.

 

[Koppai]

Some big names are involved. I wonder if game companies are just gonna go with no names.

Nintendo has seem to gone this route in most cases.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Hopefully this strike sparks something in devs as well.

Never gonna happen.

 

[Zubz]

Never gonna happen.

They seem too hard headed to do anything but also lash against the VA's.

 

[Springfoot]

.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Just read about this. Personally I hope they succeed in getting residuals solely so devs in the industry can see it's possible and realize how ludicrous it is for the VAs to get residuals relative to the amount of work involved in making a game and get unionized themselves.

So, you hope that the strike is succesfull to show how stupid you think the strike is?

The health and safety stuff where they were having to do sessions that were damaging their vocal cords definitely needed to be addressed, but it seems like it has and still wasn't enough to end the strike.

Well, yeah, it won't end the strike, because that's not how strikes work. You don't cave just because half your demands are met. To suggest that they should just stop at the first compromise is foolish at least and vindictive at most.

Never in gaming history has a VA been the reason for a game's success.

That's both irrelevant and ignoring the fact that games are employing voice actors more than ever before.

I'm pretty sure publishers are also well aware that those SAG VAs aren't the ones generating sales and doubt they'll cave on residuals.

Publishers don't care either way. All they care about is what they have to pay for.

 

[Springfoot]

.

 

[DR2K]

So weird that developers and game creators don't have the ability to unionize. I hope they come to a compromise. I feel like asking for residuals is pushing it.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Not really since that's not quite what I wrote. I hope it succeeds to serve as a catalyst to motivate the developers,who actually determine whether or not a game is good and have a real impact on sales, to unionize and unfuck the industry's poor working conditions.

This really isn't about devs vs. voice actors.

 

[Springfoot]

.

 

[CircleOfFire]

The proposed bonus system would allow actors to receive additional payments for every 2 million copies or downloads sold — or unique subscribers for online-only games — with a cap at 8 million.

or unique subscribers for online-only games

unique subscribers

Ooof, that sounds like the stuff of nightmares for a lot of games. Will F2P games have to pay based on users running the games?

Plus like other professionals who have worked in the games industry, I shake my head at developers/artists and everyone else not able to get a deal like this.

 

[Springfoot]

.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Movies are a whole different beast. Denzel Washington and Robert Downey Jr. among others will get me to watch movies I may have otherwise skipped, but even throwing them in a videogame wouldn't come close to being a deciding factor for whether or not I'd purchase a given game.

But SAG minimum contracts are pretty much irrelevant to big Hollywood starts, they can demand significantly better terms on their own. It's the less known actors who benefit from SAG negotiated residuals in movies and TV, all the way down to the ones that are completely replaceable like the guy playing "Cop #2" or "Man in Waiting Room". This is a principle thing for SAG - that all (union) actors, regardless of fame, retain a stake in their performances, and deserve additional compensation if a performance is used beyond a certain number of times.

Ooof, that sounds like the stuff of nightmares for a lot of games. Will F2P games have to pay based on users running the games?

Most F2P games probably aren't using union actors. And I would assume by "subscribers", they mean paid subscribers.

 

[Springfoot]

.

 

[Kanashimi]

Jennifer Hale's interview on radio about the strike: https://soundcloud.com/bleacherreportradio/jennifer-hale-on-the-voice-actors-strike

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Was doing more reading, and it looks like the residuals are only $800 at the 2, 4, 6, and 8 million sales marks (with 8 being the cap)? Lol, that's nothing for the sizable studios they're mainly going after, at least for linear single player titles. If those residuals extend to every single voice actor on a project (1 SAG VA makes the whole thing a SAG affair?), then I can see why a big open world game like GTA or Witcher 3 (or just about any non-FPS AAA title now as the whole industry goes open world) would have an issue with that since it would start to add up for all the miscellaneous voice work.

You're really going to try to say that secondary payments on a AAA game that sells 2 million copies is going to be an issue for these companies?

 

[Lime]

Jennifer Hale's interview on radio about the strike: https://soundcloud.com/bleacherreportradio/jennifer-hale-on-the-voice-actors-strike

God bless her heart and soul

 

[binarymelon]

Pretty good discussion in the Easy Allies podcast this week.

https://youtu.be/pmWk3Q6a_64

Discussion starts at 52:36 (according to show notes, haven't verified that's when it actually starts).

Edit: Brandon Jones wife is a member of the union so they get a bit of a first hand perspective.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

God bless her heart and soul

"I'm not giving them a bonus, that comes out of my bonus"

That quote and the lawyer that told Tara Strong that VAs are useless..... it infuriates me.

This is so transparently about elitism and "you're not a real job" that it sickens me.

 

[Kanashimi]

A one hour talk with Crispin Freeman about the strike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__oKJxJwagA

 

[Kanashimi]

Todd Haberkorn talks about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNBVbzql6vE&feature=youtu.be and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bN49sXFNi8

A few of the video game companies launched this site in reply: http://sagaftravideogames.com/

SAGAFTRA is not happy:

SAG-AFTRA has issued a statement in response to the website, calling on the companies involved to take down the "counterfeit" site.

The union states that it has "issued a demand to the public relations representative and negotiations attorney for the 11 video game corporations the union is striking. The demand directs the PR rep to immediately cease infringing the union’s trademark and desist in its promotion of a deceptive website that masquerades as a SAG-AFTRA communications platform".

"Citing the potential for confusion generated around the game companies’ use of SAG-AFTRA trademarks on this website and the absurdity of attempting such disingenuous tactics, union counsel issued a demand ordering the take down of the counterfeit website".

I mean... why and the fuck would you make a site with another company's name is in it? ._.

 

[MageBoySA]

Todd Haberkorn talks about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNBVbzql6vE&feature=youtu.be and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bN49sXFNi8

A few of the video game companies launched this site in reply: http://sagaftravideogames.com/

SAGAFTRA is not happy:



I mean... why and the fuck would you make a site with another company's name is in it? ._.

Honestly, SAG-AFTRA's response to the site makes them look like they are trying to hide something from their members. That site is pretty clearly from a lawyer representing their opponents, and since they can't legally contact union members personally to put their statement out, something like that is the only way they could do it. In old Hollywood it would have been a newspaper article. The site seems pretty reasonable for a response, and since I have no idea what the actual truth is (somewhere in the middle) SAG's response makes me wonder a bit.

Though I will admit I may have a slightly anti-SAG bias, after a friend got threatened by SAG when a non union director was talking to her and someone reported her. (She didn't even think about taking the job before she was reported. She was terrified of losing her membership.)

 

[Kanashimi]

Honestly, SAG-AFTRA's response to the site makes them look like they are trying to hide something from their members... -snip-

I'm not against the video game companies having a site to put out their point, but in this case I imagine SAG-AFTRA does have a point. I mean, they did use their name in the URL and there might be confusion (because people are dumb). I mean, there's already so much confusion from fans who think voice actors don't give two shits about devs.

I mean, there's a bunch of different stories coming from the woodwork. In that Crispin Freeman talk I posted earlier, he stated hearing one of the higher-ups saying we can't give you bonuses, then we'd have to give everyone else bonuses. But they should and Crispin argues that point to. There are people who are still in the game business that remember getting bonuses.

I'll keep my personal opinions of SAG-AFTRA out of this, but I can understand why people would have issues with them.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Any news on this?

I was on the website, but the latest they have is November 22nd.