Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
oh man, i mean you know, i-i-i don't wanna kill no humanz
Also: that gif is perfection.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Samurai Jack Season 5 |OT| But Yeah, Im Thinking Im Back.
- Thread starter Xe4
- Start date
- Status
Also: that gif is perfection.
I've been thinking about the last episode a bit since I've seen it. And I don't think I've ever seen any cartoon do what Jack just did right there.
Jack's departure from his old persona of hero is so tangible in this series depiction. I mean, on a visual levle, stuff like blood that's never been seen before, only replicated by oil, as well as the talk of suicide, and so on, it gives a feeling of departure from the original series. But here in this episode, the thematic definition of hero is turned on it's head in the killing of the Daughters of Aku.
It's the words Jack gives before fighting them in this episode that stay with me. "You have chosen this path.....The decisions that you make and the actions that follow reveal who you really are." They're the same words his father told him after they were ambushed by other samurai who he cut down, not with callousness, but not with remorse either. And the basic notion of self defense gives him a right to do so. Someone is threatening to kill you, you fight back, killing them if necessary. It's reasonable. And, his line of it being their choice to attack him is true as well. Which is the justification Jack uses to make peace with crossing a line he has never crossed before: while he's destroyed thousands and thousands of robots, he's never taken a human life before (technical quibbles about some past episodes aside). And this is important because a significant theme of the original series is that his cause was just. He was fighting a demon whose name literally means "Evil". He's helped and aided many people. He's polite and considerate and thinks well of people even when they probably don't deserve it. He's accepting of differences and seeks peaceful resolution when he can. He was a good person.
So, it's not just that he's trying to justify this on a moral level. He has a mental demon that trying to make him commit suicide, making him focus on all that he lost, and is now torturing him with the idea that he has to kill human beings. This justification isn't just a him trying to find excuses, it's him trying to cling to the shreds of his identity: He's Samurai Jack. He's not Aku. He doesn't create suffering that is unnecessary. And when you get down to it, he did have little choice if he didn't want to die to these deadly fighters.
But while the basic notion of self defense applies, his justification is wrong. I mean, sure, yeah, the Daughters of Aku could have just given up and left. If they hadn't attacked him, he wouldn't need to defend himself. But he says "Their choices have led them here." But this requires you to ignore their past, how they were raised. If the first episode didn't show their training, we might have no reason to doubt that, while they may be human, they're functionally no different from robotic enemies: As far as Jack is concerned, they' just randomly showed up out of nowhere and are trying to kill him without provocation. In that, they're really no different from his typical enemies. The only real difference is that, in being made of flesh and blood, they can't have been programmed to kill him and thus have to make a choice to do so.
Only we, as the audience, know that's untrue. They didn't have a choice. They were born into a fanatical cult where they were raised literally their entire lives to know nothing but hatred and anger and to desire the death of Jack just because their god they've never seen doesn't like him. They've been so divorced from basic human kindness that they look at a deer nuzzling a mate affectionately and are utterly baffled at what it's doing. When their sister dies, they just shrug it off with a "She failed, so she deserves it". Jack gives them a choice to let him be, but I don't think they even have the framework necessary to consider the idea of letting Jack go about his way peacefully. Even their fighting style reflects this and is actually the reason they lost. While they might gang up on him together, they have no sense of teamwork, and as a result, Jack can pick them off one by one since they don't defend each other. But they didn't choose any of this. Jack's just flat out wrong here. Their attack on jack was chosen for them at their birth. And I want emphasize that Jack has no idea of any of this, so it's not like he's being a hypocrite or idiot or anything, but in his scramble to maintain some kind of sense of self, he's making assumptions about the world that are not quite true.
At this point, this series isn't merely a continuation of Samurai Jack, it's a deconstruction of it. Jack started off in an extremely bad place both physically and emotionally, but this marks the series crossing an event horizon where it is simply no longer possible for him to go back to what he used to be. It's not that he was some perfect person before this, but his Samurai upbringing has always been the beacon by he maintained his moral center. And despite how the years have worn Jack down, he's still following that beacon...but it's just straight up wrong here. These girls didn't truly have a choice in not fighting him. Jack justifies this fight as he's justified all his other fights, by seeing it through the lens of his upbringing of the Samurai way....but the way is wrong.
And that's a fascinating direction in which to take the series.
Jack's departure from his old persona of hero is so tangible in this series depiction. I mean, on a visual levle, stuff like blood that's never been seen before, only replicated by oil, as well as the talk of suicide, and so on, it gives a feeling of departure from the original series. But here in this episode, the thematic definition of hero is turned on it's head in the killing of the Daughters of Aku.
It's the words Jack gives before fighting them in this episode that stay with me. "You have chosen this path.....The decisions that you make and the actions that follow reveal who you really are." They're the same words his father told him after they were ambushed by other samurai who he cut down, not with callousness, but not with remorse either. And the basic notion of self defense gives him a right to do so. Someone is threatening to kill you, you fight back, killing them if necessary. It's reasonable. And, his line of it being their choice to attack him is true as well. Which is the justification Jack uses to make peace with crossing a line he has never crossed before: while he's destroyed thousands and thousands of robots, he's never taken a human life before (technical quibbles about some past episodes aside). And this is important because a significant theme of the original series is that his cause was just. He was fighting a demon whose name literally means "Evil". He's helped and aided many people. He's polite and considerate and thinks well of people even when they probably don't deserve it. He's accepting of differences and seeks peaceful resolution when he can. He was a good person.
So, it's not just that he's trying to justify this on a moral level. He has a mental demon that trying to make him commit suicide, making him focus on all that he lost, and is now torturing him with the idea that he has to kill human beings. This justification isn't just a him trying to find excuses, it's him trying to cling to the shreds of his identity: He's Samurai Jack. He's not Aku. He doesn't create suffering that is unnecessary. And when you get down to it, he did have little choice if he didn't want to die to these deadly fighters.
But while the basic notion of self defense applies, his justification is wrong. I mean, sure, yeah, the Daughters of Aku could have just given up and left. If they hadn't attacked him, he wouldn't need to defend himself. But he says "Their choices have led them here." But this requires you to ignore their past, how they were raised. If the first episode didn't show their training, we might have no reason to doubt that, while they may be human, they're functionally no different from robotic enemies: As far as Jack is concerned, they' just randomly showed up out of nowhere and are trying to kill him without provocation. In that, they're really no different from his typical enemies. The only real difference is that, in being made of flesh and blood, they can't have been programmed to kill him and thus have to make a choice to do so.
Only we, as the audience, know that's untrue. They didn't have a choice. They were born into a fanatical cult where they were raised literally their entire lives to know nothing but hatred and anger and to desire the death of Jack just because their god they've never seen doesn't like him. They've been so divorced from basic human kindness that they look at a deer nuzzling a mate affectionately and are utterly baffled at what it's doing. When their sister dies, they just shrug it off with a "She failed, so she deserves it". Jack gives them a choice to let him be, but I don't think they even have the framework necessary to consider the idea of letting Jack go about his way peacefully. Even their fighting style reflects this and is actually the reason they lost. While they might gang up on him together, they have no sense of teamwork, and as a result, Jack can pick them off one by one since they don't defend each other. But they didn't choose any of this. Jack's just flat out wrong here. Their attack on jack was chosen for them at their birth. And I want emphasize that Jack has no idea of any of this, so it's not like he's being a hypocrite or idiot or anything, but in his scramble to maintain some kind of sense of self, he's making assumptions about the world that are not quite true.
At this point, this series isn't merely a continuation of Samurai Jack, it's a deconstruction of it. Jack started off in an extremely bad place both physically and emotionally, but this marks the series crossing an event horizon where it is simply no longer possible for him to go back to what he used to be. It's not that he was some perfect person before this, but his Samurai upbringing has always been the beacon by he maintained his moral center. And despite how the years have worn Jack down, he's still following that beacon...but it's just straight up wrong here. These girls didn't truly have a choice in not fighting him. Jack justifies this fight as he's justified all his other fights, by seeing it through the lens of his upbringing of the Samurai way....but the way is wrong.
And that's a fascinating direction in which to take the series.
That look between the wolf and jack "fucking sucks being the good guy in this world huh? Later man"
I took this as they knew he was fucking DANGEROUS af even when winded after witnessing the shit he had just pulled.
I took this as they knew he was fucking DANGEROUS af even when winded after witnessing the shit he had just pulled.
You can even tell from the way he told the speech, the interruption, etc, that this was more for his own sake than theirs.
I wonder if they'll have Jack reflect over the idea that ultimately, many of the robots he's been fighting were people too. Like, maybe you can argue that that's different because they were programmed to kill Jack, but so were the Daughters of Aku.
And like, it wouldn't even be a huge leap of logic for the series, the violence in the first four seasons relied on robots and oil being equivalent analogues to humans and blood, which is why it doesn't seem like the series jumped into edge when Jack starts fighting and killing humans. Not to mention, we've already had stuff like The Tale of X9.
And like, it wouldn't even be a huge leap of logic for the series, the violence in the first four seasons relied on robots and oil being equivalent analogues to humans and blood, which is why it doesn't seem like the series jumped into edge when Jack starts fighting and killing humans. Not to mention, we've already had stuff like The Tale of X9.
I think they realised how solid he was and were being cautious.
That was less deconstruction and more just dramatic irony. We the audience know something Jack doesn't.
Yeah that was stunning. The show is living up to its legacy and then some.
Man I am loving this show, I never expected it to be this good!
Hoping it's getting some good viewership, really want more mature Western animations to take off.
Depending on if Ashi survived the fall or not, we might see Jack have to come to better terms he killed brainwashed children. I am enjoying his delusional moments with himself so it could create the strongest tipping off point for him.
Hoping it's getting some good viewership, really want more mature Western animations to take off.
Depending on if Ashi survived the fall or not, we might see Jack have to come to better terms he killed brainwashed children. I am enjoying his delusional moments with himself so it could create the strongest tipping off point for him.
Tizoc
Member
You had your chance girl, but jack aint having any more of your shit
Admiral Woofington
Member
Even if he came to terms with it, ultimately the argument is that he did it for self defense and that as humans they had the choice to leave at any point in that battle.
What surprises me is that considering all of the teachers he had as a kid, all from different cultures, that none of them ever showed him the death of a human being.
I'm hoping the Scotsman appears soon and gives Jack friendly banter shit about losing the sword though.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Some of the cultures could have arguably been more lax on the idea of taking a human life and he just happened to witness it as a child.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I might be the only person not really digging the new season as much as everybody :/
For me, it ultimately comes down to not enjoying the continuous narrative instead of episode-by-episode make up of the original Samurai Jack. I enjoy Jack's direction, but I'm not digging the daughter's of Aku as primary antagonists. I think it's because they anchor SJ to a very specific tone, and one thing I loved about the original run was how much the tone varied from episode to episode: going from brooding serious battles in the snow to funny high energy antics in future cities.
Also, I just don't like them. The moment Aki gets named you can see her entire character arc laid out which isn't bad in an episode by episode show, but in a continuous narrative seeing the road of the next few episodes dulls the experience of her growth for me.
Luckily the style in this is still A+ and probably better. I can't think of anything in the original that had as much symbolic weight or creativity as all the crazy stuff they did with the blood and the wolf. It's nice to know even if the stuff coming up is dull, it'll at least look rad as hell.
For me, it ultimately comes down to not enjoying the continuous narrative instead of episode-by-episode make up of the original Samurai Jack. I enjoy Jack's direction, but I'm not digging the daughter's of Aku as primary antagonists. I think it's because they anchor SJ to a very specific tone, and one thing I loved about the original run was how much the tone varied from episode to episode: going from brooding serious battles in the snow to funny high energy antics in future cities.
Also, I just don't like them. The moment Aki gets named you can see her entire character arc laid out which isn't bad in an episode by episode show, but in a continuous narrative seeing the road of the next few episodes dulls the experience of her growth for me.
Luckily the style in this is still A+ and probably better. I can't think of anything in the original that had as much symbolic weight or creativity as all the crazy stuff they did with the blood and the wolf. It's nice to know even if the stuff coming up is dull, it'll at least look rad as hell.
The Tale of X9 is great because of that one look Jack gives at the end. A look of, "What did I just do?"
It's appropriate that episode was one of the last before the original show ended.
I doubt the daughter's of Aku are the primary antagonist considering Jack most likely killed all of them but Ashi. There are still 7 more episodes of the season and the next episode looks like one of the "one off" random episodes we got in earlier seasons.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I'm assuming you haven't seen the newest episode?
Jack killed most of the Daughters of Aku, if not all of them, so they've basically already been wiped out. Maybe one of them survived or something, but the Daughters of Aku are already dead and if one did survive it'd likely be as a character ala the Scottsman rather than the main antagonistic force. Which is good since if this is the final season then we're obviously gearing for the final Jack vs Aku battle. There's been other villains being set-up as well in my opinion.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I'm actually bringing this up from the newest episode. "Primary antagonist" was probably the wrong word to use here in retrospect? Mostly I'm mostly annoyed that the early predictions of
"Jack saves/raises/whatever Aki"
The Scottsman
I'm pretty sure that Ashi's stuff is gonna be finished in the next few episodes. I'd be really surprised if she stuck around as more than a character who maybe reappears at the end.
Also, the next episode is about
, so I'm pretty sure the tone's gonna vary a lot, heh.
Also, the next episode is about
being inside a giant monster's stomach with goofy stomach things
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I am pretty sure Ashi is going to be around the whole season into the end. She's been in every episode so far, they went out of their way to set up a backstory for her, I'm feeling more and more confident this is going to be a Mad Max style thing where Jack's not the main character, Ashi is.
But eh, I could be wrong. As example I was sure next episode was going to be drab seriousness as jack saves Ashi while simultaneously trying not to be killed by her. Reading that spoiler though, I scratched my head going "How???"
My feeling is that Ashi's main purpose is to push Jack into character development and getting better, and then she'll leave. And then Jack's gonna go try and get the sword back, and that's what the middle third of the season's gonna be about.
also toonami has previews of every episode
also toonami has previews of every episode
User 73706
Banned
Next episode spoilers / speculation
Well, he did get knocked out this past episode. Maybe he survives the fall but gets knocked out from it and a monster swallows him whole while he's unconscious.
Can't empathize with you there, Flowers. Sequential storytelling > Episodic storytelling 99.99% of the time
tkscz
Member
Just caught the newest episode and fucking called it (not on GAF but on my tumblr).
That said I really like the way they handled Jack dealing with that issue.
Well, we all seen where that ended up.
I knew Jack just gave up because he killed a human rather than that stab being too much for him. He's had way worse injuries and blew them off.
His father didn't just kill any assigns who were after him. He gave them a chance, told them they would die if they chose to fight, and killed them when they did. He showed he was willing to give mercy and only killed when they left him with no other choice. Jack gave the DoA that same chance and they (hilariously) would tell him to shut up while he gave them that chance.
Acrylic7
Member
whats the best way of finding this remixed intro theme?... also it should easily be the new intro theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vZi_rVbds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vZi_rVbds
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I think that Jack is scared that he'll become the Horseman, because he sees the Horseman as an embodiment of his failures against Aku, and his continued existence as an aimless wanderer, an envoy of death.
I think that over the course of this season, he'll come to embrace the Horseman. Jack won't go to the past; Jack will defeat Aku in this time, and he'll do it by making peace with his new destiny, amassing an army, and storming the fuggin gates. He'll probably die in the end, but the tales of his journeys will contribute to a legend and legacy greater than Aku's.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Eh, that seems like it'd be a twist for the sake of having a twist.
There's nothing wrong with the initial goal of the series actually being the goal of the series, I don't really get why so many stories end up half-assing it just because they want a twist. Jack's gotta defeat Aku and win, any other ending would be kinda dumb! And I'm sure Genndy knows that.
Prof. Bathtub
Member
The comic series already gave this ending. The issue is that both ways of ending it could be seen as obvious, though I do like the simplicity of Jack accomplishing his goal. I guess we'll see how it wraps up soon enough.
Total serialization doesn't fit a show that was designed as a vehicle for stylistic experimentation.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I like the simplicity of the idea that he liberates this future from his evil
then travels back in time, liberates the past from his evil and creates an alternate timeline of good. And he is honored and remembered in all of them.
then travels back in time, liberates the past from his evil and creates an alternate timeline of good. And he is honored and remembered in all of them.
Yeah I'm pretty sure they're going to set up the idea that whatever time portal Jack finds will split the timeline, so he has to defeat both Past and Future Aku to truly save the world.
that'd also resolve the weird bit of time travel logic where nearly everyone Jack knows would end up being erased from existence by travelling back in time
that'd also resolve the weird bit of time travel logic where nearly everyone Jack knows would end up being erased from existence by travelling back in time
Time to pick an an ocarina and learn the song of the time from the princess.
But each episode has had stylistic experimentation.
FF Seraphim
Member
Holy shit I need a wall paper of Jack and the Wolf covered in blood as they are entering the cave. God damn this episode hit on every level.
Speedydonut
Member
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I'd lose it
I'd lose it
I'm not sure who that is supposed to be.
The black samurai dude, from the earlier episodes.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It'd have to be his kid, or an older, wiser version
But I approve
But I approve
I'd lose it
I'm screaming. xD
TeamLeftMatch
Member
I'd lose it
Best twist? Best twist.
Although not to nitpick but wouldn't Da Samurai be old by that point.
- Status