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[Poltergust]

Some part of me feels that the organisers of events which cater to a specific demographic do so to ensure it is successful i.e that they profit from exploitation of a minority group by offering them something that I don't believe is entirely necessary or required IF we lived in a more inclusive and accepting society.

I'm not against these events, but further segregation isn't the answer or best way forward to working towards full equality and a society where everyone feels valued, accepted and appreciated.

So, what do you propose, then? Should these events just not be held, and therefore not give gay people a way to express themselves without any fear of discrimination?

Incidentally, straight people were in no way excluded from this event, so I don't see how it promotes segregation.

 

[Circle Jerk]

Some part of me feels that the organisers of events which cater to a specific demographic do so to ensure it is successful i.e that they profit from exploitation of a minority group by offering them something that I don't believe is entirely necessary or required IF we lived in a more inclusive and accepting society.

I'm not against these events, but further segregation isn't the answer or best way forward to working towards full equality and a society where everyone feels valued, accepted and appreciated.

How on earth do I have a "startling lack of empathy"? Do I care about LGBT rights? OF COURSE I do. I just feel that separating your group like that reinforces the notion that being gay makes you different, or even not normal or something. It's bullshit. I'm honestly sick and tired of a society that when it doesn't condemn it points and looks at anyone that is slightly different.




You make a good point. I guess I want and expect for things to move faster so anything that stands in the way is imo a problem even if it helps some people at the same time. Different POV's I guess, I agree with your post but I still think that separating your group from the rest doesn't help.

Why is the argument now "gay people are segregating themselves and are therefore to blame for lack of progress in equality"? Like, do you guys not understand how absolutely insane this idea is?

 

[Nekofrog]

"stop isolating/differentiating/standing out/being different" screams of concern trolling to me.

 

[Stumpokapow]

How on earth do I have a "startling lack of empathy"? Do I care about LGBT rights? OF COURSE I do. I just feel that separating your group like that reinforces the notion that being gay makes you different, or even not normal or something. It's bullshit. I'm honestly sick and tired of a society that when it doesn't condemn it points and looks at anyone that is slightly different.

You make a good point. I guess I want and expect for things to move faster so anything that stands in the way is imo a problem even if it helps some people at the same time. Different POV's I guess, I agree with your post but I still think that separating your group from the rest doesn't help.

You're the one separating the group by using "you" language instead of "we" language, thinking that you're not invited or welcome, and trying to dictate how "they" can behave and what reasons "they" might have or not have for a convention.

I mean, literally you have a group saying "We want to be heard", and you're saying "Don't worry, I'm speaking for you, and everything you have to say has been said, you're on my team" and they're saying "Wait, no, there's stuff we want to say and do!" and you're saying "Look, if you keep talking, it's just going to put distance between my team and you". How crazy does that sound? Great, you're not saying "Fuck off, no one wants to hear you". Congratulations. No one is accusing you of that. But that's not the only way you can make someone feel unwelcome.

Organizers: We think there's a lot of value to a convention geared towards gay gamers
You: No there isn't
Them: We think we have some unique stuff to talk about
You: No you don't, you're not that different
Them: We don't feel 100% fully safe elsewhere and we want a safe spot
You: You are 100% fully self elsewhere, how you feel is not relevant to reality
Them: It feels like you're not on our side
You: Of course I am, I'm no homophobe, I only want what's best for you and I'm frustrated that society doesn't have it.
Them: We didn't say you were a homophobe, just that this would be a good start, this one little place, this one little moment
You: It just seems like you're calling attention to yourself

I'm not putting words in your mouth here, these are the things you're saying repeated almost verbatim. You're saying them to an invisible, inaudible voice. And they're invisible and inaudible because you aren't listening.

 

[BeesEight]

Even as heavily modded as Gaf is, this thread is a shining example of why this convention was created in the first place.

In a way, it's a shame the mods are doing such a good job of cleaning it up. The more disgusting posts are proof that there is still discrimination of sexuality in gaming and that the issue is an important one.

While public opinion in the Western world is on the whole shifting in favour of equality and acceptance, the fact of the matter is that we're no where near anything ideal. At the end of the day, some gamers just want to meet up with people that share the same interests and some of us just happen to be gay and would prefer to enjoy our hobby without that offending others or bringing hatred upon ourselves.

Does this create some segregation? Perhaps. But at the end of the day everyone is fine with it. Gaymer X can have its drag cosplays and E3 doesn't have to worry about offending those that apparently are appalled by such activities.

 

[lenovox1]

Some part of me feels that the organisers of events which cater to a specific demographic do so to ensure it is successful i.e that they profit from exploitation of a minority group by offering them something that I don't believe is entirely necessary or required IF we lived in a more inclusive and accepting society.

I'm not against these events, but further segregation isn't the answer or best way forward to working towards full equality and a society where everyone feels valued, accepted and appreciated.

In regards to this specific event, you could say the same thing about gay bars.

I don't think the event itself was trying to make some huge civil rights statement in and of itself. It was just a place for gay gamers to come together.

 

[TurnipFritters]

"stop isolating/differentiating/standing out/being different" screams of concern trolling to me.

That's the term I was looking for!

 

[jdforge]

People are different, they recognize this in themselves and in others. It's a natural part of being human. You can't ask people to pretend everyone is the same. Rather, you need to teach them to be accepting and respectful of differences.

Acceptance of difference not the same thing as blindness to difference.

If people who are different from each other continue to pull further apart - how will they ever learn to accept each other?

Segregation breeds indifference.

 

[Stumpokapow]

If people who are different from each other continue to pull further apart - how will they ever learn to accept each other?

Gays accept you. Don't worry.

Edit: Wait, you meant the other way around? Well, sure, it'd be great if people could accept their gay brothers and sisters. But in some alternate reality, people are abusive to them, and people are dismissive of them, and people do wonder why they're talking every time they speak up with anything to do with their identity, and no matter how low a volume they use they're always somehow a deafening roar... and it takes a really perverse sense of justice to look at that alternate reality and blame anyone who wants to have a safe space instead of fighting for them.

But also, this isn't pulling apart. They are saying "Hello world. We're here. If you want to find out what we're about, here's our public face. Come and check it out." They're uniting to make themselves even more open and available. At a regular convention you need to turn down gay alley, but here the fabulous rainbow banner is beaming. All they ask is that you listen, and you love. It's also not pulling apart when the Muslim Students Society makes biryani and gulab jamun for people ("Can't they just eat hamburgers like the rest of us? Do they really need weird food?") at an international fair. It's offering. This is the offer. This is the extended hand. All you need to do is take it.

 

[Poltergust]

I find this comment being expressed a lot and it's interesting to me.

I've been to my fair share of comic conventions from small up to big ones like Comic Con. I've been to my fair share of anime conventions from Fanime to Anime Expo. I've been to a ton of gaming cons from tournaments to GDC, to TGS, and to just about every E3 that has taken place. Not once did it ever occur to me that these events were not gay friendly, or that they were geared toward straight people. I know plenty of gay friends who go to these events too and not once did I ever get the sense that there was some tension going on because of the atmosphere at these events. Everyone was there for either comics, sci-fi, anime, game development, or games. Everyone always seemed to be having a good time.

I'm not saying what you are saying isn't true. I'm just saying from my experience, this is a bit surprising to me and if anything eye opening. I would really like to know what about these shows that make it a non safe or not comfortable environment so I can understand what I've been oblivious to. Not once did it occur to me that sexual orientation was a factor at these types of events.

Well, let me put it this way: do you think that two guys can hold hands at these conventions without getting weird looks or derogatory comments (said quietly or otherwise)?

If the answer is no, then there you go.

I mean, the end of that Ellen video is something that would never happen at any normal convention.

 

[RM8]

Oh man. This wouldn't be an issue for anyone if it'd be a convention for gamers who are allergic to eggs, wear only blue clothes and listen only to Chinese folkmusic. Somehow this particular convention is wrong and shouldn't exist.

 

[Devolution]

If people who are different from each other continue to pull further apart - how will they ever learn to accept each other?

Segregation breeds indifference.

You and others like you need to learn what a "safe space" is and the point of it. It's not segregation.

 

[Traitor]

What's so gay about this convention?

 

[BigDes]

If people who are different from each other continue to pull further apart - how will they ever learn to accept each other?

Segregation breeds indifference.

You need to explain how this convention is an example of segregation

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It might be a good idea to add a reading comprehension section to Gaf applications.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

The straight people be allowed to attend thing is really going over people's heads.

 

[Shosai]

Oh man. This wouldn't be an issue for anyone if it'd be a convention for gamers who are allergic to eggs, wear only blue clothes and listen only to Chinese folkmusic. Somehow this particular convention is wrong and shouldn't exist.

I assume the head-scratching reaction would be the same. How does one's allergies, taste in clothes, music, and sexual partners relate to video games?

The creation of this convention implies that traditional game conventions are in some ways exclusionary to gays, something which many people genuinely don't or can't perceive.

 

[Atrophis]

I for one am SICKENED and SHOCKED and A LITTLE BIT CROSS that Star Wars conventions don't cater to us Star Trek fans. Whats that all about eh??

 

[jdforge]

In regards to this specific event, you could say the same thing about gay bars.

I don't think the event itself was trying to make some huge civil rights statement in and of itself. It was just a place for gay gamers to come together.

Yeah I agree with your sentiment - but challenge yourself to look at the big picture and ask the tough questions.

Minority groups should never lose sight of the day that they are an integral, welcomed and equal part of society.

 

[RomanceDawn]

i really dont know why its always juniors, give us a bad name

I don't want to be lumped in with that. I legitimately assumed gaming conventions were safe zones for all, so I questioned the need for a specific gay gaming convention. While I do acknowledge the anonymity of playing online games with people just brings out the worst in them, I have almost never experienced anything like that at the many conventions I've been to. I can only assume actually standing next to a person will keep your mouth and actions in check for the most part.

The only time I've seen some really awful racial, homophobic or sexist slurs thrown out were during gaming tournaments and I don't necessarily look at this and something like a convention as one in the same. But after reading a bunch of posts, yeah my personal experience is obviously not the norm so I understand why things like this are necessary.

 

[Haly]

If people who are different from each other continue to pull further apart - how will they ever learn to accept each other?

Segregation breeds indifference.

They're not segregating. They're saying: "If you come here, please respect the culture and attitudes of the other attendees". This is the opposite of indifference. Your opinions on the LGBT sect of the gaming community are being challenge by merely considering the existence of this convention.

This thread and discussion is proof of that.

Indifference is: "Why are you making such a fuss about it? Just move on."

 

[Corto]

Do people think that a gay marriage proposal like the one that the video documented would take place on another gaming conference? At E3, PAX, Gamescom,TGS? And before some argue that that has nothing to do with gaming, it most certainly has. They both are video games enthusiasts, they had a prominent voice actress sing one of the most famous soundtracks of a video game, with its lyrics customized to their proposal. That shows how committed they are to this hobby of ours, to the point they will link it to one of the most important moments of their lives.

 

[BigDes]

I assume the head-scratching reaction would be the same. How does one's allergies, taste in clothes, music, and sexual partners relate to video games?

The obvious rebuttal is why do they have to have anything to do with video games?

 

[NinjamicWZ]

I thought there was already one of these. Wasn't WBC protesting it last year?

 

[kittens]

If people who are different from each other continue to pull further apart - how will they ever learn to accept each other?

Segregation breeds indifference.

That are many diverse types of people, and that's never going to change. We shouldn't ignore difference. We should acknowledge and honor our differences and work to cooperate across them, but that doesn't mean people of certain identities shouldn't have spaces of their own. The reasons for having identity-specific events / conferences has been discussed extensively here. I'm not gonna bother repeating the arguments.

 

[Flatline]

British TV shows do explicitly explore race, class, and sexuality, not just treat it as though it is a blind and invisible element of society.

Agreed, when they do mention race they do it for a good reason not because the character happens to be black creating an awful stereotype.

Well besides the fact that homosexuality is an orientation, not a third sex (??) obviously they give a fuck about their orientation. I'm sure they'd rather your approach that open hatred, obviously, but why can't they be who they are instead of having to render their orientation invisible?

I didn't say that they should be invisible. That's the Russian approach that I abhor. They should be as open as they like, just don't separate themselves from the rest of us.

So your stance is:
- You can organize a convention about LGBT rights. You're not that different you know you just prefer people of the same sex. Big fucking deal.
- You can organize a convention about gaming that doesn't have the word gay in the title. You're not that different you know you just prefer people of the same sex. Big fucking deal.
- But if you organize a convention that combines aspects of both? NO. You're not that different you know you just prefer people of the same sex. Big fucking deal.

And even worse, the options seem to be:
- Do the kinds of convensions I think you should do
- Shut up and go away

There's no third option that says "Offer your own point and exist the way you want to exist and plan the type of event you think would bring value to your audience and would make the world a better place."

Do you think the promoters of this even are reaching out across the internet and taunting you about your identity? Do you think they are asking for your attention? I ask because your response seems to be that this is a bad thing because it is people calling undue attention to themselves based on their identity. They don't want your attention. They are peacefully existing. And you seem to be projecting it very personally by using the word you, as if they organized this as a one-on-one conversation with you. I think you'd find that they don't agree with your premises, and they do think they "are that different".

Do you think they need to impress you, or that they need to "deserve" this? They can't just do this. They have to pass your requirements for who gets to do this, who rises to the level of being "different enough"?

Dude, you've completely missed my point. I'm not some intellectually dishonest conservative asshole that tries to hide his hate by suggesting that gays should "do what they do but not flaunt it in our faces". My pov is just inclusive, I think that by separating themselves from the rest they're actually hurting the progress our society must make to get rid of discrimination. Also:

- You can organize a convention about gaming that doesn't have the word gay in the title. You're not that different you know you just prefer people of the same sex. Big fucking deal.

I never said or implied that. That implies that I want the gay community to hide, my problem is that by separating themselves from the rest even for the most meaningless events like gaming conventions they're reinforcing the belief that they're different.

 

[Poltergust]

What's so gay about this convention?

Strictly speaking, it's not. It's simply an event where gay people can gather and enjoy themselves with no worries. It's more like a video game convention that caters to gay people.

Of course, I don't know all the details of what went on in there since I've never went. Can other Gaffers who went give some impressions? It seemed like it was an great experience.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Well, let me put it this way: do you think that two guys can hold hands at these conventions without getting weird looks or derogatory comments (said quietly or otherwise)?

If the answer is no, then there you go.

I mean, the end of that Ellen video is something that would never happen at any normal convention.

I've certainly seen it at anime and comic conventions. I honestly haven't really paid attention who is holding hands or not at a gaming con though.

But if anyone can go to the convention, having a convention with that theme doesn't stop people from giving weird looks or thinking derogatory comments either.

 

[Meicyn]

What did they discuss on their panels? If there's one thing I can congratulate EA its over their inclusivity on this topic.

EA mostly discussed the importance of putting homosexuals into games, and also touched on the games that have this stuff in them, such as The Sims. Bioware's panels focused a bit on that as well, but also the evolution of their incorporating LGBT characters into their games by taking small, incremental steps. They talked about how it started with Juhani in KOTOR and how they built things from that. The goal really, is that they're doing their best to try to be as inclusive as possible.

David Gaider was on scene to discuss writing all these various characters and some of the ideas they've had. As an example, the choice to have (almost) all characters available for a love interest for your main character in Dragon Age 2 was motivated by the desire for inclusiveness.

It was interesting to note how a transgender person at the last panel brought up that they've been represented pretty shittily so far in Bioware's products, and Gaider actually flat-out apologized for it and that Bioware plans to do better going forward. A lot of folks speak quite negatively of Bioware and EA, but quite frankly, people tend to forget that the people behind the corporate face are gamers like the rest of us, and it was really neat sitting on the panels and listening to these individuals' thoughts on LGBT inclusion in gaming.

 

[badcrumble]

"stop isolating/differentiating/standing out/being different" screams of concern trolling to me.

Pretty much.

 

[Devolution]

I've certainly seen it at anime and comic conventions. I honestly haven't really paid attention who is holding hands or not at a gaming con though.

But if anyone can go to the convention, having a convention with that theme doesn't stop people from giving weird looks or thinking derogatory comments either.

Generally the people who would treat a safe space like shit are afraid to go. It works wonders.

 

[lenovox1]

Yeah I agree with your sentiment - but challenge yourself to look at the big picture and ask the tough questions.

Minority groups should never lose sight of the day that they are an integral, welcomed and equal part of society.

You know, even if convention like PAX or ComicCON or E3 totally and completely served of all types of people with all types of backgrounds, it's impossible to satisfy everyone's needs and wants over a three day weekend. These niche things help to fill gaping holes.

 

[TheHollowNight]

Listening to RebelFM and people like yourself are pretty much the only genuine straight people who get the issue in my life. And I have to admit it's also so heartening to read. It doesn't physically make me misty eyed, but it's one of those sentiments that can instantly tell you something about the person talking. It's much appreciated.

All of my friends, they don't get it. I've known them since 5 or 6, and we're a big fraternity and I came out, and I love them all but they actually don't get it at all. I genuinely don't think there's one straight person I know in real life who actually gets it.

So yeah it's refreshing and amazing you even bother to give a shit. It's not white knighting for me.

I'm happy I was able to convey my thoughts and feelings on an internet forum well enough that it actually struck a chord with someone
It's definitely much harder to express in words, when it can be so easily misconstrued online. Pretty much why I had to defend against accusations of "white-knighting", because honestly, it's my first reaction to expect it. Which is a sad state of affairs. And I genuinely believe a lot of people just don't see it. The fact that this thread exists is proof enough that, we are a long way off from this holy grail of social equality.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Minority groups should never lose sight of the day that they are an integral, welcomed and equal part of society.

Just think, gay marriage would be a reality in America if only people stopped going to drag nights and forgetting they were a part of a larger culture.

The reality is, the peace and security they get from an event where they can be themselves and talk about their identity is what empowers them to re-enter the public sphere and work doubly to fight for their rights. It's the safety net so that when they go out there and ask their representative to vote for gay marriage and the guy standing a few feet away yells "go home ya fucking queer freak, god finds your sodomy disgusting" they have people that they know they can go talk to. It's the shield that protects them and the sword that gives them strength. And it's the discussions that refine their ideas and their messaging. It's what gives them the capacity to turn to that guy and say "I am a human being and I deserve dignity. I hope you find happiness in your life, and all I'm looking for is happiness in mine." It's the room where they can be sure that they can work on building their argument and understanding themselves instead of being blindsided by their opponents.

You are aware that most of the minority groups that are full time advocacy groups do more on their own behalf than your gracious offer for them to some day be fully welcomed if only they would spend more time fighting for it instead of whatever they do in the no-straights club.

 

[qko]

Is it trans-friendly? I have some friends who are trans and have expressed that a lot of cisgendered gay and lesbians discriminate pretty badly. I've wondered if gay gamers are more open and if these issues are less of an issue with the huge cosplay scene being very open to the trans community.

 

[Haly]

Dude, you've completely missed my point. I'm not some intellectually dishonest conservative asshole that tries to hide his hate by suggesting that gays should "do what they do but not flaunt it in our faces".

That you felt the need to point this out so specifically is telling of how unaware you are of what you're saying.

I'm going to blow your mind for a moment here: You don't need to be an asshole, conservative, or whatever to be discriminatory. Discrimination can be as simple and insidious as not taking the time to listen to yourself. In that sense, you are not that different from the "intellectually dishonest conservative asshole".

People are telling you what you sound like.

You're saying: "No, you're wrong."

Have you thought about maybe why they're saying this in the first place? Have you heard this dialogue elsewhere, maybe between activists and the "intellectually dishonest conservative assholes" you alluded to? Have you considered, even for a second, that you might be wrong?

 

[RomanceDawn]

Well, let me put it this way: do you think that two guys can hold hands at these conventions without getting weird looks or derogatory comments (said quietly or otherwise)?

If the answer is no, then there you go.

I mean, the end of that Ellen video is something that would never happen at any normal convention.

Marty Chinn and I obviously run in the same circles. I bet I crossed paths with him many times. His thoughts though are exactly how I feel. I never got a sense that there was any issue.

So to answer your question, Poletrgust, yes! Just at comicon a few weeks ago I saw so many same sex couples walking down the street all costumed up holding hands or all hugged up. It certainly wasn't the first time either, especially at Anime expo. I see people pass by and just carry out their business. I'm sure some people would say something regardless of where they are but no one certainly expressed it to their face or made a scene out of it.

While I was never so sheltered and oblivious to assume there was never any prejudice towards people like them I always thought more than anywhere else, conventions like these let them be them.

 

[Syf]

They should be as open as they like, just don't separate themselves from the rest of us.

When we can be open about our relationships in public without fear of catcalls and disgusted looks, there won't be any need for events like this. Society as a whole is still very far away from that reality. You can't blame us for wanting to hold events in which there is no fear of holding our partner's hand.

 

[jdforge]

I for one am SICKENED and SHOCKED and A LITTLE BIT CROSS that Star Wars conventions don't cater to us Star Trek fans. Whats that all about eh??

I know. Wait until they start having Star Wars Conventions for gay people. You should Kickstarter that idea...God forbid that a gay person or couple could attend a regular Star Wars Convention, right?

 

[Poltergust]

I've certainly seen it at anime and comic conventions. I honestly haven't really paid attention who is holding hands or not at a gaming con though.

But if anyone can go to the convention, having a convention with that theme doesn't stop people from giving weird looks or thinking derogatory comments either.

Sucks to be them, then. I don't see why anyone would waste money to spend time around the people they hate.

Also, while you may not have cared about this sort of thing (and good on you!), you unfortunately can't account for the hundreds or thousands of other attendees. Can you confidently say that not a single one of those people won't exhibit any sort of discriminatory behavior?

 

[Devolution]

Marty Chinn and I obviously run in the same circles. I bet I crossed paths with him many times. His thoughts though are exactly how I feel. I never got a sense that there was any issue.

So to answer your question, Poletrgust, yes! Just at comicon a few weeks ago I saw so many same sex couples walking down the street all costumed up holding hands or all hugged up. It certainly wasn't the first time either, especially at Anime expo.

While I was never so sheltered and oblivious to assume there was never any prejudice towards people like them I always thought more than anywhere else, conventions like these let them be them.

This tends to happen. "I didn't see it therefore I don't know what you're talking about." Minorities always have to go above and beyond to prove this stuff.

 

[Meicyn]

Is it trans-friendly? I have some friends who are trans and have expressed that a lot of cisgendered gay and lesbians discriminate pretty badly. I've wondered if gay gamers are more open and if these issues are less of an issue with the huge cosplay scene being very open to the trans community.

As someone who was there, I can verify that it was extremely trans-friendly. No one was fighting. No one argued. The hotel that hosted the event actually flat out stated that it was the most trouble-free convention they've ever hosted.

I cannot vouch for anything that happens in the future, of course. But the atmosphere was nothing but friendly there. Transgender, furries, folks that are hardcore into yaoi... it was a huge variety of people on scene, and everyone got along.

 

[coughlanio]

How can you NOT understand why gay gamers would want a video game convention tailored to their preferences? Video game conventions have an overwhelming amount of straight male focused entertainment: booth babes, boobs, more boobs, talking about babes and boobs. This gives the gay gamers a chance to talk about the things they want to talk about in a safe environment: Batman's pecs, Batman's package, what Superman is packing, who tops: Flash or Robin, things like that. I think this is a great idea, and doesn't in anyway take away the importance of any other gaming related conference.

You know gay women love boobs right? I mean, they LOVE them...

Also, my male gay housemate loves boobs, possibly even more than I do. He finds them hilarious..and it seems that's a trend within the scene.

 

[Flatline]

You're the one separating the group by using "you" language instead of "we" language, thinking that you're not invited or welcome, and trying to dictate how "they" can behave and what reasons "they" might have or not have for a convention.

I mean, literally you have a group saying "We want to be heard", and you're saying "Don't worry, I'm speaking for you, and everything you have to say has been said, you're on my team" and they're saying "Wait, no, there's stuff we want to say and do!" and you're saying "Look, if you keep talking, it's just going to put distance between my team and you". How crazy does that sound? Great, you're not saying "Fuck off, no one wants to hear you". Congratulations. No one is accusing you of that. But that's not the only way you can make someone feel unwelcome.

Organizers: We think there's a lot of value to a convention geared towards gay gamers
You: No there isn't
Them: We think we have some unique stuff to talk about
You: No you don't, you're not that different
Them: We don't feel 100% fully safe elsewhere and we want a safe spot
You: You are 100% fully self elsewhere, how you feel is not relevant to reality
Them: It feels like you're not on our side
You: Of course I am, I'm no homophobe, I only want what's best for you and I'm frustrated that society doesn't have it.
Them: We didn't say you were a homophobe, just that this would be a good start, this one little place, this one little moment
You: It just seems like you're calling attention to yourself

I'm not putting words in your mouth here, these are the things you're saying repeated almost verbatim. You're saying them to an invisible, inaudible voice. And they're invisible and inaudible because you aren't listening.

I'm sure there's a word for it that escapes me so I'll give an example. I'm using the "you" and "your" like an ad saying something like "make your company more efficient". When I'm talking about your group I mean a general group. You keep trying to paint me as some kind of asshole that wants gays to hide by taking my posts out of context.

That you felt the need to point this out so specifically is telling of how unaware you are of what you're saying.

I'm going to blow your mind for a second here: You don't need to be an asshole, conservative, or whatever to be discriminatory. Discrimination can be as simple and insidious as not taking the time to listen to yourself. In that sense, you are not that different from the intellectually dishonest conservative asshole.

People are telling you what you sound like.

You're saying: "No, you're wrong."

Have you thought about maybe why they're saying this in the first place? Have you considered, even for a second, that you might be wrong?

No, I'm pointing it out because that's exactly what Stumpokapow keeps implying. You just can't see my point of view, it's that simple, maybe it's my fault for not articulating it better though.

 

[Stumpokapow]

IBut if anyone can go to the convention, having a convention with that theme doesn't stop people from giving weird looks or thinking derogatory comments either.

Come on, really? You don't understand why the audience, straight and gay, of a gay gaming convention might be self-selected to be a more welcoming environment for gays than a general audience?

My pov is just inclusive, I think that by separating themselves from the rest they're actually hurting the progress our society must make to get rid of discrimination.

I responded to your point the way any LBGT person would respond to your point. Is it possible you're missing their point and not vice-versa? Are you sure you have a better sense of how society will be free from discrimination than the victims of it?

You don't think there are any conversations that can happen here that can't happen in a more mixed company? You don't think there's any voices you'd hear here that don't have a place elsewhere? You really think that this is the same as any other gaming convention just with gay people hiding from everyone?

Listen. Don't tell. Don't lecture. Don't teach. Just listen. Listen to the voices that are telling you they want to be heard. Right now you're talking over them and saying "I am listening, you just aren't saying anything".

 

[TurnipFritters]

Is it trans-friendly? I have some friends who are trans and have expressed that a lot of cisgendered gay and lesbians discriminate pretty badly. I've wondered if gay gamers are more open and if these issues are less of an issue with the huge cosplay scene being very open to the trans community.

It's labeled as LGBT-oriented, but I realize that often times that doesn't mean a whole lot for people under the T banner.

Edit: Beaten.

 

[Sai-kun]

Some part of me feels that the organisers of events which cater to a specific demographic do so to ensure it is successful i.e that they profit from exploitation of a minority group by offering them something that I don't believe is entirely necessary or required IF we lived in a more inclusive and accepting society.

I'm not against these events, but further segregation isn't the answer or best way forward to working towards full equality and a society where everyone feels valued, accepted and appreciated.

this isn't segregation

this is a special event and creation of a safe space where there might not normally be one

safe spaces for minority groups are absolutely necessary until we reach a point where discrimination and and exclusion because of who we are doesn't exist anymore

also it's not segregation because literally anyone is welcome to go, but the focus is on creating a fun and again, safe, space for lbgt gamers

 

[Shosai]

The obvious rebuttal is why do they have to have anything to do with video games?

It's assumed that the themes and topics of a video game convention would be in some ways video game related. What could take place at this convention that couldn't take place at standard game convention? Genuine question

 

[Emitan]

You know gay women love boobs right? I mean, they LOVE them...

Also, my male gay housemate loves boobs, possibly even more than I do. He finds them hilarious..and it seems that's a trend within the scene.

Many straight men love boobs and still complain about that kind of thing! No reason lesbians can't.

 

[Devolution]

A place where you're less likely to hear pejoratives, sexism and focuses on a different subset of people who happen to exist is obviously the worst place ever.