You really can't think of anything? Really? Not one thing?
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San Fran. Hosts GAYMERX, The World's First Gay Video Gamer Convention Last Weekend
- Thread starter lenovox1
- Start date
You really can't think of anything? Really? Not one thing?
ab.aeterno
Member
That there are pages and pages of posts wherein people cannot fathom why this was wanted and dismissing it out of hand is thoroughly depressing. I mean, wondering why you'd want a gay gaming convention calls into question why have a gaming convention in the same breath because the argument is applicable to both, simply on different scales. Why have a gaming convention? Why separate yourself from society at large? The answer is the same: to be with similar, like minded people with whom you have something meaningful in common.
If you don't understand it, ask yourself why you're on this message board and reflect on why that's probably similar.
EDIT: Really, the question is fractal and can be applied to every aspect relating to a subset of people. If you can understand why there are, say, clubs and student unions for ethnic minorities, you can understand this too.
If you don't understand it, ask yourself why you're on this message board and reflect on why that's probably similar.
EDIT: Really, the question is fractal and can be applied to every aspect relating to a subset of people. If you can understand why there are, say, clubs and student unions for ethnic minorities, you can understand this too.
Marty Chinn
Member
No, I understand that. It is certainly more welcoming, but it doesn't eliminate it is what I was getting at if you allow it to be open to anyone.
Ah, that sounds interesting. I've felt that BioWare has received a bit of unnecessary flak for a lot of that and when I was on their forums some of the vitriol they had over the inclusion of any gay character was pretty sad.
On one hand, I haven't been blown away by their handling of the subject matter but on the other I appreciate their attempts at it. I figured that was the reason Dragon Age 2 had their relations set the way they did and I, personally, didn't take any offence to it. But I'm really glad they keep pressing on with it and I hope they continue to improve their writing on that front.
I'm kind of curious but nervous about them handling a transgendered character.
I'm happy I was able to convey my thoughts and feelings on an internet forum well enough that it actually struck a chord with someone
It's definitely much harder to express in words, when it can be so easily misconstrued online. Pretty much why I had to defend against accusations of "white-knighting", because honestly, it's my first reaction to expect it. Which is a sad state of affairs. And I genuinely believe a lot of people just don't see it. The fact that this thread exists is proof enough that, we are a long way off from this holy grail of social equality.
Even though I didn't comment on your first post I do want to say it was really well written and that I enjoyed it too. I don't think you should be worried about accusations of white-knighting.
I wouldn't be asking otherwise. Educate me.
No, I know what your point of view is, and as I've articulated before, it's misguided. It's asking people to act in a way contrary to their nature. Some people feel the need to assert their identity, they can't do this if society doesn't recognize difference. The desire to stand apart is just as intrinsic to human culture as the desire to belong to a group. The solution doesn't come from either extreme of individualism or collectivism, but from creating a environment where both types of people can flourish.
Look I really understand your point of view on this and to an extent I really want to agree with you wholeheartedly. But I can't.
Boundaries have to be pushed, barriers have to be broken, eyes have to be opened, zealots and bigots have to be challenged.
That isn't going to happen in a safe space. That's not going to happen at a gay bar.
I continue to challenge myself and my own fears in this regard. But society HAS to change it MUST become more inclusive.
You've got to keep pushing that agenda.
because it's pretty unlikely that any stupid homo/transphobes are going to pay money to go to a convention that makes it pretty clear what their target audience is
why does a boundary have to be pushed at a gay bar? a gay bar is where my friends and I go when we want to meet people like us, and to relax and be ourselves without worrying if we're gonna get the shit beaten out of us for looking at someone wrong, or get called names just for looking a certain way.
safe spaces are exactly that: spaces where people can feel comfortable being exactly who they are, without fear of repercussion
By not standing out? What?
LGBT gamers just want to have a convention. You're turning this into something it's not. It's not "giving up", it's not a "surrender", it's just some people who want to have fun in an environment that isn't hostile.
For those whose entire life and identity is a struggle, is it too much to give them a chance to relax and have fun now and then?
Do you dedicate every waking moment of your life to advancing social causes? No? Then why can't these gamers do the same?
This convention has, evidenced by this thread, challenged the worldviews of many people. So, even without meaning to, their group activity has "pushed their agenda" just a little further. Is that not enough for you? Do they need to do more? Where do you get off on saying this?
Devolution
Member
They are challenged. Constantly. Sometimes the minority wants a fucking break from dealing with bullshit though. That's why some people join groups or clans with their particular identity or play consistently in a specific group. So they don't have to play a game and hear "faggot." So they can win a game or talk over mic without being called a "fat stupid ugly cunt." Sometimes people want a safe fucking space.
freenudemacusers
Member
I don't see how this hasn't pushed boundaries; a lot of posters here on this pretty tolerant forum (by internet standards) seem to have gotten a real bug up their ass over the mere existence of this convention. It's not like this this being done in secret.
A general purpose convention has panels and events that appeal to a wide audience. A specialized convention can focus more on specific issues and interests relevant to a more focused audience.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You mention a gay bar as an example of an exclusive place that sets back cultural and political acceptance for gays. You are aware that a gay bar was the location that started the modern American gay rights movement, when straight police conducted a raid on the bar? You get the cosmic irony, right? Without gay bars, it's quite possible the movement never would have caught fire, that the fight never would have been public?
Devolution
Member
Says who, you? No.
Sorry, is this from personal experience or are you just pulling socio-cultural pseudo-philosophy out of your ass?
Marty Chinn
Member
Like I said, from my experience, I tend to find that geeks band together in common interests and do it for the love of that interest regardless of sexual orientation. Hanging out with people who are gay or bi at these places always seemed like everyone was having a good time and not once was feeling uncomfortable, left out, or being degraded because everyone was there for the love of the craft. So the fact that people feel otherwise is eye opening to me. Sexual orientation is just something that has never stood out as an issue at these places. I guess I'll have to ask some of my friends if they've ever felt the need to hide, hold back, or just felt worried about who they were at these events and I feel bad for not having seen it before. Geeks already have a stigma against them so maybe it always seemed like they would be more understanding and welcoming.
freenudemacusers
Member
How is a yearly convention clinging to a safe space? Again, this isn't done in private, there are no secret gay handshakes to get in. I really have no idea where you are coming from with this.
i don't even
somebody doesn't see it....
Although I haven't yet seen an argumentative GAF thread over some controversy concerning red haired gamers.
Sorry for being vague, I was asking for examples.
EDIT:
This was what I meant, thanks!
Aeriscloud
Banned
What is this...?
Why not just read about what they actually talked about on the convention
Sure it would be lovely if pax or gdc had panels focusing on the roles of gay characters in video games, but it's rather unlikely and probably not what most companies would chose to focus on in a mainstream convention
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
That's why this crowd-funded largely anti-corporate and bottom-up event that's explicitly and implicitly critical of the industry as an industry and how capital doesn't make space for minorities is superfluous at best and a bad thing at worse... while the capital-driven vendor-driven large-corporation top-down gaming conventions ran for profit are an essential conduit to gay rights.
i agree with this on some level, but on the other hand:
it's nice to have support (in general) when reality can be such a fucking depressing thing to wade through
it's cool to have a convention that caters to the lbgt crowd, and i'm sure a lot of people met and had a fun time, and want to experience that kind of closeness with a community again, so even if some CEO is like "haha yeah we got the gaymers!", i think the positive experiences of a gayming community outweigh the POSSIBLE negativeness of a greedy ceo somewhere
also i'm totally rambling idk
Devolution
Member
The idea that people can possibly cling to a safe space is pretty funny. Real life isn't one. People have jobs, hobbies, and interactions with all kinds of people. A safe space is just an enclave where you can find like minded individuals or those with a similar identity and escape some ignorance for a bit.
Most minority resistance or civil rights agendas are because of these places not in spite of them. Jesus.
Most minority resistance or civil rights agendas are because of these places not in spite of them. Jesus.
Do you think gay people don't attend E3, PAX or other video games conferences? They do. This conference just cater to them more directly with focused themed panels and a social anxiety-free environment.
Marty Chinn
Member
They have this at GDC.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
You say you're not getting personal, but you're telling people who suffer heaps of abuse when they aren't rendered invisible that their strategy of having a happy innocent space for a few days where they can have a good time and talk to like-minded individuals is a failure, and only through consistent, heart-breaking fighting will they ever get a full seat at the table (a fight that you're telling them to do with your full support, but not volunteering to actually help with). And like a parent to a child, they need to put up with tough times so they can become stronger people?
You don't see why people might take it personally? You are speaking for them and telling them they're wrong.
I hated when my father in law "helped me move" by standing by because he "had a bad back" and mostly just telling me I wasn't carrying things properly or in the right order.
You've obviously not hateful, no one is accusing you of it. I know you're not. You don't hate gay people. You are speaking candidly about how you want a better world for them. But you don't see how your position is personal?
Is GDC an event open to the public?
Now imagine a GDC solely comprised of similar themed panels. What would be the target audience, mainly?
Marty Chinn
Member
Yes.
I would go so far as to argue that Neogaf is such a "safe place", and that it is exceedingly ironic that one can be critical of "safe places" while still posting fervently on Neogaf.
Devolution
Member
It is up to a point for sure thanks to the moderation. It's also ironic that anyone posting on this kind of message board wouldn't understand the point of a more narrowly focused Con considering I dunno THE COMMUNITY SECTIONS.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm not arguing against that. I was just disputing the notion that it doesn't happen at GDC.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
And that's good. No one who is in favour of this is saying that there shouldn't be LBGT-themed discussions in mixed company, only that a) barriers exist to them, still, b) a convention only has so many slots so it's never going to be the case that all the conversations people want to have can happen except at a conference dedicated to the subject, c) the audiences for such an event and reactions to such an event are different in mixed company than at at place done this way.
Yes, I know, you were responding to someone who got a pedantic detail wrong in expressing a broadly true theme. Thanks for the correction.
I'm expressing my POV without insults, snide remarks or digs at other forum members. I can't say the same for all those taking part in the discussion. So on that basis I'm out. Figuratively speaking
charlequin
Banned
People have mentioned quite a few examples earlier in the thread: a game-cosplay drag competition, showcases of art games focused on LGBT gamers' life experiences, panels with in-depth discussions of gay themes in game writing (without the need to lay down groundwork or speak to a general audience), etc.
SymbolicGamer
Banned
What's wrong with his post?
If one community can have a gamer convention, why can't others? I know the "gangsta gaming convention" isn't that much of a stretch. There was a Hip Hop Gaming League, hosted by Snoop Dogg awhile back. And PC gamers have BlizzCon and QuakeCon
There should be more themed gaming conventions.
Imagine the cosplay at a Furry Gamer Convention.
I guess you never played Mass Effect 3!.
Devolution
Member
You certainly told him by citing one game.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I rather not
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I'm expressing my POV without insults, snide remarks or digs at other forum members. I can't say the same for all those taking part in the discussion. So on that basis I'm out. Figuratively speaking
You are saying things that are personally hurtful to people and dismissive of them (Yes! I know! You aren't hateful! You don't hate gay people! You want the best for them! You're not discriminating!), and when they cry out in pain "You are hurting me", you are telling them "Dude, don't get all personal with me, I'm just having a conversation. Let's agree to disagree." If your first reaction when someone says "Ow, that hurt" is "I didn't do anything" instead of "What did I do?", I don't know what to say.
No one has insulted you or dug at you. I just reviewed every post that quoted you. As a moderator, I can tell you that people who insult other people get banned. Often and quickly, and regardless of the content of their message. Plenty of people are upset with you because you are hurting them or because they are hurt that you don't even realize that you're hurting people. People are spending lots of time talking to you.
kitchenmotors
Banned
So on that basis I'm out. Figuratively speaking
I don't think anyone would assume otherwise.
SymbolicGamer
Banned
It's okay. Everyones furry for Krystal
CamHostage
Member
Well, it IS open to anyone. They don't have bouncers wielding humectation/tumescence monitors to ensure only those who pass the make-out gate and are proven gay actually get in...
What about furries who aren't furry for her?
Yup, I definitely feel NeoGAF is a safe place. It's actually the first place that I admitted to anyone that I was gay. Even if once in a while there are some jerks who say mean things, I still get to see everyone telling them how wrong they are. Even though people can say "It's the internet", and that's why I feel more comfortable with my sexuality online, I've never been on a website more accepting than GAF.
You're all fabulous.