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[B-Dubs]

My main issue with the superdelegate system is that it immediately sets the narrative for who the party's favored candidate is. Wouldn't it be more fair if the superdelegates revealed their vote at the same time their state voted or when all the people's votes had been cast?

In an article from November, I found that 80% of superdelegates had already voiced their support for a candidate. That immediately sends a clear message of who the party heads are backing and really doesn't seem to be necessary seeing as their role is supposedly only to tie break in case of a contested convention.

Super delegates are elected officials and party elders, you'd basically need to be saying that a huge number of people couldn't endorse a candidate if you did that.

 

[Clockwork5]

It's all in the details. Death threats and harassments aren't cool but I don't think there is any reason delegates shouldn't be be slammed with people telling them how to vote. Expecting otherwise is the antithesis of democracy, they are supposed to represent the will of the people.

Well, Hillary is ahead in the pledged delegate count so the will of the people is not in favor of the Bernie supporters at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Actually, there's four - arguably five (IN, PR, MT, and ND, with SD "semi-open"), but I'd only favor him in two (three if counting SD).



Not quite: the closest thing to a defined role for them is to prevent a contested convention from even happening.

If they cast their vote at the same time as the states voted, they could still easily serve that role.

Super delegates are elected officials and party elders, you'd basically need to be saying that a huge number of people couldn't endorse a candidate if you did that.

I can see the argument there, but it still seems to give them more importance than it should. Also it is a bit of an unwritten rule that the president doesn't outright say who he's supporting, so there is some precedent for him not skewing things with his influence too much. But I admit it's a complex issue and I may not have considered all facets.

 

[Matt]

My main issue with the superdelegate system is that it immediately sets the narrative for who the party's favored candidate is. Wouldn't it be more fair if the superdelegates revealed their vote at the same time their state voted or when all the people's votes had been cast?

In an article from November, I found that 80% of superdelegates had already voiced their support for a candidate. That immediately sends a clear message of who the party heads are backing and really doesn't seem to be necessary seeing as their role is supposedly only to tie break in case of a contested convention.



That official is DWS the current head of the democratic party.

There is nothing wrong with the Superdelegates haveing public preferences. Considering who Superdelegates are, not allowing them to state their preference would meaning basically getting rid of endorsements altogether.

And Barack Obama is the head of the Democratic Party.

 

[Volimar]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bernie-sanders-fundraise-down-ballot-democrats-maddow

What the hell Bernie?

 

[eBay Huckster]

If they cast their vote at the same time as the states voted, they could still easily serve that role.

I mean, as things currently stand, they effectively cast their votes on June 15th, after all the states (and territories, and one district) have voted.

 

[FyreWulff]

My main issue with the superdelegate system is that it immediately sets the narrative for who the party's favored candidate is. Wouldn't it be more fair if the superdelegates revealed their vote at the same time their state voted or when all the people's votes had been cast?

In an article from November, I found that 80% of superdelegates had already voiced their support for a candidate. That immediately sends a clear message of who the party heads are backing and really doesn't seem to be necessary seeing as their role is supposedly only to tie break in case of a contested convention..

First Amendment means the Superdelegates can say who they'll support at any time. It'd be near impossible to NOT know who they'd favor.

However, they've also never voted against the pledged delegate winner. Conversely, we've had electors in the electoral college vote against what the people of their state voted for.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

There is nothing wrong with the Superdelegates haveing public preferences. Considering who Superdelegates are, not allowing them to state their preference would meaning basically getting rid of endorsements altogether.

And Barack Obama is the head of the Democratic Party.

Chair of the DNC, sorry

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'm dying at how many times "will of the people" has been invoked in this thread.

 

[davepoobond]

If they cast their vote at the same time as the states voted, they could still easily serve that role.



I can see the argument there, but it still seems to give them more importance than it should. Also it is a bit of an unwritten rule that the president doesn't outright say who he's supporting, so there is some precedent for him not skewing things with his influence too much. But I admit it's a complex issue and I may not have considered all facets.

superdelegates are only 20% of the total delegates.

 

[Matt]

Chair, sorry

She is the chairwoman of the DNC, the Democratic Party doesn't have a chair.

Edit: Ah, you edited.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Chair of the DNC, sorry

for future reference: the DNC chair is only the de facto head of the Democratic Party when a Republican is president

 

[Xe4]

Twenty one states and territories have yet to vote and Sanders very clearly has the momentum

Clinton will still likely win but she is in trouble

I can only hope when/if she wins that she will take into account the feelings of Democratic voters while she is paying back her cronies and all the corporations she is beholden to

I just wanted to say that momentum is one of the most overused in all of politics, and on top of that is a horrible indicator of how states vote when compared to even demographics and voting trends, not to mention actual poling. I really wish pundits would stop using it, because st best, momentum obly exists near the very beginning of a campaign (Iowa, NH, Bevada, etc).

 

[legacyzero]

This is the lowest of the low for Sanders supporters. I can understand reaching out to Super Delegates to ask them to vote for Bernie. That's our responsibility as voters, to interact with our political leaders.

But being assholes to them simply isn't going to help them make the decision. Political Revolution yadda yadda. That all sounds great, but being shitty to the very people the campaign is hoping to shift in their favor isn't going to do anything good.

I totally agree with this:

"Voters know they are being disenfranchised by superdelegate influence and these privileged voters are a reasonable target for frustration. And, let's be honest, if superdelegates aren't prepared to deal with the public, they shouldn't be party officials."

But lets be civil for fuck sake.

 

[Trojita]

Man, I swear people have the worst memory every time an election happens. Supporters during contested primary campaigns go crazy. This isn't a Sander's only problem. Even the candidate that I voted for in 2008 and 2012 and has been my president for the last 8 years had fucked supporters too. Harrasment is gross.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-backers-for-clinton-face-threats/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Cleaver

2008 Presidential election
During the course of the Democratic Presidential Primary, Cleaver endorsed Hillary Rodham Clinton. Cleaver claimed that African American superdelegates who supported Clinton were subjected to harassment, threatened with primary opponents and called “Uncle Tom.” He said they were told, “You’re not black if you’re not supporting Barack Obama. … It's ugly.” On March 30, 2008, he was interviewed on The Sunday Edition on CBC Radio and said he realized he was on the losing team: "Even though I don't expect the Kansas City Chiefs to beat the Indianapolis Colts, I cheer for the Kansas City Chiefs." According to BlackMissouri.com., U.S. Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois asked Cleaver, “If it comes down to the last day and you’re the only superdelegate? … Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?" “I told him I’d think about it," Cleaver explained. Cleaver said during the course of the primary he'd be shocked if Obama wasn't the next President but made it clear he still supported Clinton until she suspended her bid.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I mean, as things currently stand, they effectively cast their votes on June 15th, after all the states (and territories, and one district) have voted.

I said, voiced their support not vote so I do know that. But the majority of the delegate counts seem to be counting them already regardless.

 

[Aaron Strife]

You do realize these people got to be super delegates when they were elected officials right? Each one of the people mentioned had been an elected official. You're misrepresenting the facts.

Not just elected officials, but very high-ranking elected officials too.

Dick Gephardt, former House Majority Leader.

Howard Dean, former chair of DNC and governor of Vermont.

Tom Daschle, former Senate Majority Leader.

Chris Dodd, longtime US Senator and namesake of Dodd-Frank that everyone hates.

This is very similar to saying you have a picture of Hillary hugging a former KKK leader and it's fucking Robert Byrd. Come on, son.

 

[Christopher]

Sanders supporters are embarassing him...

 

[eBay Huckster]

I said, voiced their support not vote so I do know that. But the majority of the delegate counts seem to be counting them already regardless.

I don't know about that second thing - all the major sites seem to have put them into their own little box for front-facing results, like the NYT in particular.

But I don't know how you prevent that first thing without running into... other issues.

 

[Kickz]

Super Delegates are still BULLSHIT tho

 

[Frozenprince]

Man, I swear people have the worst memory every time an election happens. Supporters during contested primary campaigns go crazy. This isn't a Sander's only problem. Even the candidate that I voted for in 2008 and 2012 and has been my president for the last 8 years had fucked supporters too. Harrasment is gross.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-backers-for-clinton-face-threats/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Cleaver

Previous examples just re-enforce the point, I think, this thread should have.

The liberal establishment is just as, if not more, racist than the GOP. At least the GOP will just call you a slur to your face. This is such a deeply instilled sense of purveyed racism that I have no idea how to respond to it anymore.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

for future reference: the DNC chair is only the de facto head of the Democratic Party when a Republican is president

I didn't know that. I'm mostly trying to wrap my head around the process as I'm not an American and some of it is a bit confusing.

 

[Slayven]

Previous examples just re-enforce the point, I think, this thread should have.

The liberal establishment is just as, if not more, racist than the GOP. At least the GOP will just call you a slur to your face. This is such a deeply instilled sense of purveyed racism that I have no idea how to respond to it anymore.

And let the church say amen. Allies been showing their asses the last 18 months

 

[Trojita]

Previous examples just re-enforce the point, I think, this thread should have.

The liberal establishment is just as, if not more, racist than the GOP. At least the GOP will just call you a slur to your face. This is such a deeply instilled sense of purveyed racism that I have no idea how to respond to it anymore.

Wait wut lol.

 

[eBay Huckster]

And let the church say amen. Allies been showing their asses the last 18 months

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of that 2008 harassment was

Spoiler

also

coming from folks lacking melanin.

 

[Trojita]

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if the overwhelming majority of that 2008 harassment was

Spoiler

also

coming from folks lacking melanin.

The article mentions that at least in the case of that harassment that it wasn't. One of the groups harassing people was ColorofChange.

 

[Slayven]

Wait wut lol.

A lot of liberals, not all, but a shocking amount tend to think race issues are "too divisive" for a public agenda.

 

[eBay Huckster]

The article mentions that at least in the case of that harassment that it wasn't. One of the groups harassing people was ColorofChange.

welp, liberals in this

Spoiler

every

country ain't shit

still, little bit better than the other side. at least these people will occasionally be on the right side instead of never

 

[Trojita]

A lot of liberals, not all, but a shocking amount tend to think race issues are "too divisive" for a public agenda.

But worse than the other side? Come on, that's crazy talk.

 

[Slayven]

But worse than the other side? Come on, that's crazy talk.

"Nigger" vs "Sit down in the back and maybe we get to you, maybe"

It all comes from the same place

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I didn't know that. I'm mostly trying to wrap my head around the process as I'm not an American and some of it is a bit confusing.

The DNC chair couldn't be above Obama. It would mean that there's a position above the President of the United States, which can't happen.

 

[Matt]

A lot of liberals, not all, but a shocking amount tend to think race issues are "too divisive" for a public agenda.

Which, interestingly enough, does not describe the Clintons at all.

 

[Frozenprince]

"Nigger" vs "Sit down in the back and maybe we get to you, maybe"

It all comes from the same place

I'v had this conversation with friends 1000x.

It's never overt, obviously. But it's a very, very clear pattern. It's an attempt to point that minorities are inherently "different". They're not black voters they're "low information voters" They just need that one person in power because that person is "best" for them. Their best answer. It's subtle, it's never slurs or shaming, but in the end it's the same thing.

I find the casual racism displayed by many liberals to be a lot worse and more damaging than the overt racism thrown out from GOP shills. At least those idiots can be educated to change. The casual racism that just comes up in conversation about these things is exactly what's fucked this country up so bad.

 

[Trojita]

"Nigger" vs "Sit down in the back and maybe we get to you, maybe"

It all comes from the same place

You think saying a word would be all that was done?

 

[Slayven]

I'v had this conversation with friends 1000x.

It's never overt, obviously. But it's a very, very clear pattern. It's an attempt to point that minorities are inherently "different". They're not black voters they're "low information voters" They just need that one person in power because that person is "best" for them. Their best answer. It's subtle, it's never slurs or shaming, but in the end it's the same thing.

I find the casual racism displayed by many liberals to be a lot worse and more damaging than the overt racism thrown out from GOP shills. At least those idiots can be educated to change. The casual racism that just comes up in conversation about these things is exactly what's fucked this country up so bad.

Yeah they swear they cute with those dog whistles, but folks see through it

 

[excelsiorlef]

Good

We should get rid of superdelegates

Democrats ARE better than Republicans and they shouldn't have a more transparent election process

Gop has several winner takes all states. Dems are all proportional....

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Superdelegates are such absolute bullshit.

I'm glad their phones are ringing off the hooks and their facebook pages are getting slammed but I would hope the vast majority contacting them are keeping it civil.

Edit: I don't blame them for cussing at some of these superdelegates though. For example all Washington superdelegates are for Clinton at the moment despite Sanders crushing Clinton there. And on it goes. This is not democracy. It's a rigged game and the fact that Sanders is doing so incredibly well despite it all shows that change will come. This very thread wouldn't exist if he wasn't a threat. I love it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Superdelegates are such absolute bullshit.

I'm absolutely glad their phones are ringing off the hooks and their facebook pages are getting slammed but I would hope the vast majority contacting them are keeping it civil.

Lol they've never overruled the pop vote before but I'll tell ya harassing them is a good way to make them consider it if Sanders pulls of a miracle and ties Clinton or something.

 

[Raistlin]

Yes stalking and harassing people is the way to swing their vote.

Seriously.


Super Delegates are human. Even if they could potentially be swayed to Sanders, harassing them may well have the opposite effect. It's human nature to react emotionally when you've been slighted.

So yeah ... potentially alienating Super Delegates in this manner is obviously not the answer. If anything it will hurt Sanders.

 

[Frozenprince]

Superdelegates are such absolute bullshit.

I'm absolutely glad their phones are ringing off the hooks and their facebook pages are getting slammed but I would hope the vast majority contacting them are keeping it civil.

When is it going to get through peoples heads that THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT ELECTION.

This is two private organizations having votes to determine who will represent them at the executive level. That's it. It doesn't need to be a truly democratic process.

 

[Slayven]

Why should super delegates go for Bernie?

Will of the people? Hillary leads in raw votes, inculding the GOP

State wins? Hillary has won more states

Delegate count? Hillary is winning there

Support for the Democratic party? Hillary is raising money and campaigning for the downticket, while sanders said "he will look into it"

Why should they upend the apple cart and go for sanders?

 

[FyreWulff]

Superdelegates are such absolute bullshit.

I'm absolutely glad their phones are ringing off the hooks and their facebook pages are getting slammed but I would hope the vast majority contacting them are keeping it civil.

You're free to run for election as president without a party. If you want the party's support and money, you're gonna play by the private party's rules.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Why should they upend the apple cart and go for sanders?

the main argument is now "general election polls, without any context applied and still 200 days out, show sanders winning against trump by a wider margin"

even though it ignores the fact that GOP attacks are baked into clinton's numbers and not into sanders'

 

[Frozenprince]

Why should super delegates go for Bernie?

Will of the people? Hillary leads in raw votes, inculding the GOP

State wins? Hillary has won more states

Delegate count? Hillary is winning there

Support for the Democratic party? Hillary is raising money and campaigning for the downticket, while sanders said "he will look into it"

Why should they upend the apple cart and go for sanders?

Because he lost a month ago and his supporters are fucking desperate.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Superdelegates are such absolute bullshit.

I'm absolutely glad their phones are ringing off the hooks and their facebook pages are getting slammed but I would hope the vast majority contacting them are keeping it civil.

Edit: I don't blame them for cussing at some of these superdelegates though. For example all Washington superdelegates are for Clinton at the moment despite Sanders crushing Clinton there. And on it goes. This is not democracy.

Why should super delegates go for Bernie?

Will of the people? Hillary leads in raw votes, inculding the GOP

State wins? Hillary has won more states

Delegate count? Hillary is winning there

Support for the Democratic party? Hillary is raising money and campaigning for the downticket, while sanders said "he will look into it"

Why should they upend the apple cart and go for sanders?

Putting these together because the second answers why it's silly to be harassing the superdelegates at all.

 

[norm9]

Why should super delegates go for Bernie?

Will of the people? Hillary leads in raw votes, inculding the GOP

State wins? Hillary has won more states

Delegate count? Hillary is winning there

Support for the Democratic party? Hillary is raising money and campaigning for the downticket, while sanders said "he will look into it"

Why should they upend the apple cart and go for sanders?

Why won't you let Sanders look out for you?

 

[legacyzero]

Man, I swear people have the worst memory every time an election happens. Supporters during contested primary campaigns go crazy. This isn't a Sander's only problem. Even the candidate that I voted for in 2008 and 2012 and has been my president for the last 8 years had fucked supporters too. Harrasment is gross.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-backers-for-clinton-face-threats/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Cleaver

Yep. Hillary is COMPLETELY infallable in her supporters eyes. The whole "Bernie Bro" thing just makes me laugh.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Yep. Hillary is COMPLETELY infallable in her supporters eyes.

...he says, directly responding to a story about a black Clinton superdelegate being harassed by Obama supporters in 2008.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Yep. Hillary is COMPLETELY infallable in her supporters eyes. The whole "Bernie Bro" thing just makes me laugh.

That's a hell of a blanket statement to make. I'm a Clinton supporter and I'll admit to her making some glaring mistakes in the past.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yep. Hillary is COMPLETELY infallable in her supporters eyes. The whole "Bernie Bro" thing just makes me laugh.

Maybe try reading articles before commenting next time...