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Javthusiast
Banned
Watched episode 1. So good.
FunkMiller
Member
Cant you just resub for a month?
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yea but to watch in 4K it's $19.99/month in the US, and I wasn't satisfied with the service overall. I'd rather just buy the episodes one at a time as I was ready to watch them than resub then cancel again.
balls of snow
Member
Its uncanny how the talking crow is exactly the same as the one in The Longest Journey.
Insane Metal
Member
Watched the first two episodes last night and thought they were pretty good. I'm not into the source material though.
Little Mac
Member
Just finished episode 8. 2 to go. It's good. I'm invested. Some great effects and amazing imagery with some of the scenes. It's very weird but in a good way. Original. Slows down a bit around episode 6 but I hoping there is a pay off to all the character/world building. Morphius actor nails it. The gender swapped Joanna Constantine was great aswell, though Keanu or the tv Constantine would have been cool too. Corinthian actor is good too. Lots of interesting stories that hopefully tie together before the season wraps. So far its a solid 8 for me.
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FunkMiller
Member
I encourage anyone who think the diner episode in this series is disturbing, to go read the graphic novel, or listen to the Audible version.
They tamed it down a hell of a lot here.
They tamed it down a hell of a lot here.
ZywyPL
Banned
Finished watching last episode today, and honestly I have a mixed feelings - the show is great up until Morpheus acquires his tokens, then the other half of the episodes feels like some sort of filler or unfinished S2. Overall the writing is good, acting is good (except Morpheus having tears in his eyes like he's about to cry in half of his dialogues), characters are interesting and believable, CGI is OK for the most part, I especially loved how the Hell was portrayed.
But - I couldn't stand how much infected the show is with LGBT virus, literally every 20min. just had to have a gay romance/sex scene, I literally had to stop watching the show and take a break, if it wasn't for that I'd most likely binge watched the whole show in one sitting. Whoever dumbasses are in charge at Netflix need to realise that for normal people it's simply disgusting, and there's a limit of how much you can swallow, and this show greatly exceeds it within just first two episodes... Seriously, I can't recall anything even remotely comparable.
So either way, if there's gonna be another season I'll watch it as well, if not, I won't be missing anything.
But - I couldn't stand how much infected the show is with LGBT virus, literally every 20min. just had to have a gay romance/sex scene, I literally had to stop watching the show and take a break, if it wasn't for that I'd most likely binge watched the whole show in one sitting. Whoever dumbasses are in charge at Netflix need to realise that for normal people it's simply disgusting, and there's a limit of how much you can swallow, and this show greatly exceeds it within just first two episodes... Seriously, I can't recall anything even remotely comparable.
So either way, if there's gonna be another season I'll watch it as well, if not, I won't be missing anything.
CloudShiner
Member
Feel the same, it was a slog getting through the last few episodes. And that from someone who read these stories thirty years ago and had a set of them in some form ever since.
The gender character changes were excessive, illogical and unnecessary. Almost every male or white original character replaced in either gender, ethnicity, sexual preference or all three. Off the top of my head, Death (and even some of the people who she visits when they die, for God's sake!), Lucifer, Constantine, Lucienne, Desire, Rose Walker, and probably more I'm missing. Not like ALL the main characters or anything. Absurd. And imagine if this was done the other way round. Not a chance. Suppose we're lucky it didn't become Sandwoman.
Oh, and Matthew the raven now afflicted with verbal diarrhoea and a dumb accent so he can give endless exposition in a show where it's totally unnecessary Nice one, Netflix.
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John Marston
GAF's very own treasure goblin
Even though I hate to admit it I count how many boxes "The Message" gets across recent movies & TV shows.
And I hate myself for thinking this way.
-Lesbian couple check
-Drag queen singing for 10 minutes check
-Corinthian gay sex check
-Morpheus Trans Evil useless sub-plot sister check.
None of this improves the narrative in any way.
I still enjoyed the series as a whole.
And Gwendoline Christie was delicious in her role.
FunkMiller
Member
You know what, so not worth the hassle 
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balls of snow
Member
Finished 4 ep. Hope in Hell and the first ep was the best so far. That was a riveting journey to hell and the battle was so well done. The main villain of the season is also way more interesting than slit eyes after the 4th ep.
With Lucifer, the gender change was justified since netflix probably dont want people to compare with the goat Tom Ellis version.
With Johanna Constantin, that was straight ( i mean gay) pandering.
With Lucifer, the gender change was justified since netflix probably dont want people to compare with the goat Tom Ellis version.
With Johanna Constantin, that was straight ( i mean gay) pandering.
Haeleos
Member
You can share this opinion without being a bigot. There's no need to call LGBT a virus or an infection. It being disgusting is your problem, not Netflix's, so they don't need to realize anything. There's a limit to how much YOU individually can swallow and you are not the voice of "normal people" nor do you get to decide what is and isn't 'normal', like it even mattered. Please stop sidetracking objective conversations about the show with your personal narrative and attaching it to a strawman.
Little Mac
Member
Finished it. Thought it was pretty awesome all the way up to the Diner episode ... then it just stumbled and crawled. The last few episodes were such a bore. Corinthians fate was very anticlimactic. The season should have ended when he reclaimed his tools (which were never seen or heard about again for the rest of the season?)
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Javthusiast
Banned
Jesus fucking christ.
Javthusiast
Banned
You realize all of this representation was there in the original comic in the late 80s, early 90s?
LaughingStock
Member
What they did to Lucien was so unnecessary. The show already had enough race-swapped characters.
CloudShiner
Member
Indeed, probably 70-80% of the characters at a guess. Why change established source material in this way and to that extent if not for political reasons? Anyway, it looked ridiculous to anyone who had read any of the comics.
Regardless of that, tempo of the show was all wrong, acting was poor (Christie and Dance excepted) and yeah, 'Lucienne' was awful and carried practically zero weight and believability as the librarian of Dream's Kingdom.
If Netflix really think they can spin this out to four or five seasons to cover the main volumes, then I can't wait to see how they try to handle the more complex and interweaving narratives of the later comics. Seeing how much they struggled with this one, they have no chance without gutting the original stories. Viewers will lose either way.
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ShadowNate
Member
I agree that the season felt uneven and divided. First half was great, and the first couple of episodes (and the diner one) were really good. Second half was kind of meh with quite anticlimactic resolutions and oddly quite a few pointless characters thrown in. Even the stakes did not feel as high as the characters kept stressing they were. It was... odd.
But I haven't read the source material, even though I've been told it's great. Maybe sometime in the future.
But I haven't read the source material, even though I've been told it's great. Maybe sometime in the future.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
If you have Amazon Prime you can check Comixology and Audible - it's occasionally free on both for Prime users. That's how I read the comic, then listened to the novel Gaiman re-wrote for it a while back (via Audible).
Apparently aside from all of the added gay sex and what not it's supposed to be pretty close to the novel.
John Bilbo
Member
I remember the comics being bogged down by the amount of dialogue. It was refreshing to see all that text being played out in this show by real live actors. Still the amount of dialogue seemed excessive at times. They could have found a way to convey the same message another way -- maybe via expressions or actions.
As for the choice of actors and actresses in this show... I don't know man, it is all just so weird. Many of the evil characters remained true to their comic origins and many of the more sympathetic characters were changed in skin colour and sex.
I don't know why they did the choices they made. It would be interesting to hear their explanations though.
As for the choice of actors and actresses in this show... I don't know man, it is all just so weird. Many of the evil characters remained true to their comic origins and many of the more sympathetic characters were changed in skin colour and sex.
I don't know why they did the choices they made. It would be interesting to hear their explanations though.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I read the first Absolute last year and it quickly and easily became my favourite comic.
I just can't muster up any enthusiasm to watch this show yet.
I'm a big fan of the comics myself. I was surprised by how good the adaptation is especially since it's a Netflix Adaptation
I highly recommend it
FunkMiller
Member
I’m sure no one will give a shit, but I think I’ll be done with this site if this kind of nasty, pathetic homophobic shit is allowed to stay posted.
Neil Gaiman approved casting on everyone. So, the explanation is that the guy who created Sandman cast Sandman. And wrote it. And exec produced it. You’d have to ask him.
If folks have issues with this Sandman adaptation, then it’s Neil Gaiman’s fault… and maybe Sandman isn’t for you. Go watch something a little more conservative.
They weren’t allowed to use John Constantine, so Gaiman just decided to re-use a character he created that exists in the comic anyway instead.
Jesus Christ. Some of you have got some issues.
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John Bilbo
Member
No, I was fine watching Sandman. I actually thought it was one of the better Netflix shows. It just seems a bit racist to be honest. And maybe Gaiman is a bit racist, who knows.
FunkMiller
Member
What’s racist about it exactly? Where in Sandman is a race of people treated with bigotry or hate?
John Bilbo
Member
I don't know, man, you have a tendency to twist my and other peoples' words. I don't think this discussion will be fruitful to be honest. But let's see! Maybe you prove me wrong!
I wrote it seems a bit racist. I don't know the reasons behind the casting choices and why they don't match the counterparts in the comics. But the motivations behind the casting choices could be racist.
The Corinthian and John Dee are the evil characters I meant and Death, Unity, Rose, Lucienne and Constantine were the sympathetic characters. Now you could argue Constantine not being that sympathetic, but her story in the first season is a tragic one.
Lucifer and her henchwoman are the odd ones out. Lucifer is depicted clearly as evil and a woman. In the comics I think Lucifer was a man. I don't remember what the henchwoman looked like and if she was a woman or if he was a man. As it stands the henchwoman is the only "evil" character with a darker skin tone in this season.
So atleast all the evil characters are left to be of a lighter skin tone and the sympathetic characters are being changed into darker skin tone. As stated I don't know the reasons behind such changes, but the reasons could be racist. Or maybe not. Maybe I'm looking too much into it.
FunkMiller
Member
So, Gaiman seems a bit racist for casting some black people in characters that were white in his comic book… and in a show still full of white people, where the main character is a white bloke?
How is any of this racist?
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John Bilbo
Member
See, you did it again. You skipped my argument and twisted my words.
Oh man. Why do you do this?
Wildebeest
Member
"I'm far too straight and conservative to enjoy Neil Gaiman's Sandman."
OK dude, good for you, go watch the Batman again or something.
OK dude, good for you, go watch the Batman again or something.
FunkMiller
Member
You literally said:
“I wrote it seems a bit racist. I don't know the reasons behind the casting choices and why they don't match the counterparts in the comics. But the motivations behind the casting choices could beracist.”
balls of snow
Member
Apparently not.
ShadowNate
Member
Nah, the show is quite alright for someone who hasn't read the novels.
If you're into fantasy you'll probably enjoy this.
Also, if you liked American Gods, since unsurprisingly it has a similar vibe, but I'd say this is quite more upbeat and fun.
VN1X
Banned
Yeah unfortunately only S1 of AG was decent and then it quickly fell off. Anyway, more power to ya lot but I will give it a hard pass.
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balls of snow
Member
Didnt know that. But lets not pretend netflix does not have an agenda. That diner scene had implied gay sex outnumbered straight sex by a ratio of 3:1. Don't really care when the writing is this good but Its hard to ignore.
John Bilbo
Member
That is not all I wrote. Read again. Read the whole message.
You literally said:
“I wrote it seems a bit racist. I don't know the reasons behind the casting choices and why they don't match the counterparts in the comics. But the motivations behind the casting choices could beracist.”
ShadowNate
Member
To be frank, I only watched S1 of AG, and I probably skipped a bit too
John Bilbo
Member
If I understood the powers of the ruby correctly, the diner scene implied many of the customers were closeted homosexuals or atleast willing to give same sex intercourse a shot.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think it is a phase where from little to no representation you may get over representation to make a point/stand/make it visible. You could say that the scene represents just a randomly possibly occurring clustering of inclined or exploring people or you could try to make a point that in your opinion there are far more people maybe the majority of people which are not heterosexual… it is a single scene.
ZywyPL
Banned
Nah, I think it actually goes the other way aroud - when you don't know the source material you just take what you get for what it is. Video games adaptations are the best example - most gamers always complain about a movie/series based on their beloved franchise, but most ordinary folks who have no idea about video games at all enjoy those movies.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
6/10 so far 3 episodes in. I think some scenes dragged for too long and it is a bit slow. But the casting made my eyes roll quite a few times. They gender-swapped and blackwashed so many characters, it was very distracting. I know the character of Constantine from the DC animated movies and the TV show constantine (and Arrow) so turning that character into a lesbian who acts in the same manner and also adding her romantic interest as a plot point was painful to watch. A lot of things weren’t really explained as well. Why are only some people affected by the eternal sleep thing? Could have been better.
FunkMiller
Member
You’ve lost it.
Here’s the entire post you wrote:
“I don't know, man, you have a tendency to twist my and other peoples' words. I don't think this discussion will be fruitful to be honest. But let's see! Maybe you prove me wrong!
“I wrote it seems a bit racist. I don't know the reasons behind the casting choices and whythey don't match the counterparts in the comics. But the motivations behind the casting choices could be racist.”
You‘re saying that the casting choices Gaiman made could be racist. I asked how could they be racist. You’ve given me no reason why they are racist, beyond that you think changing some white characters for black ones seems racist.
I really don’t know how to have a conversation with someone who says something, then denies they said it.
FunkMiller
Member
And hey… that’s fine. If someone thinks this is progressive garbage because of what it is and doesn’t want to watch it... no issues.
But people are in here whining about Sandman becoming woke garbage because it’s on Netflix and features changes or elements they don’t like.
They’ve clearly not ever read Sandman.
Don‘t watch something if it offends your sensibilities.
Go watch Reacher on Amazon. It’s excellent.
So is Sandman. For very different reasons.
Not everything has to be for you.
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John Bilbo
Member
Ok I see you missed the latter half of my post. I don't understand how, but you did.
Here's the latter half:
Please pay attention next time.