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[ivysaur12]

Let her compete. She shouldn't be forced to leave her religion convictions at the door if there's no potential harm to anyone but herself. She knows the risk. It's also too monumental of a symbol for Saudi women (and yes, I know that there is another Saudi competitor who is female)

And at the end of the day, it looks like she'll lose regardless.

 

[Desmond]

Respect her traditions and let her wear it I say.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Watching people trying to argue that Islam isn't fundamentally sexist is hilarious.

Yeah so sexist poor sisters...they need to be objectified...

 

[DragonSworne]

Respect her traditions and let her wear it I say.

Respect the sport and tell her to take it off

 

[Dark Octave]

aren't the olympics in London?

Same difference.

 

[Sethos]

I raise you

Wat

 

[SmokyDave]

Respect her traditions and let her wear it I say.

Yeah! let's ignore the pre-existing olympic rules and traditions and allow people to bring their own cultural baggage traditions!

Can't wait to see the Sikh athletes with their kirpans swinging!

 

[Desmond]

Respect the sport and tell her to take it off

Does it yield an advantage?

Yeah! let's ignore the olympic traditions and allow people to bring their own cultural baggage traditions!

Can't wait to see the Sikh athletes with their kirpans swinging!

Go back to the days of male only nudie Olympics while you're at it.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Why don't they respect Japanese culture?

uh oh shoe is on the other foot now

 

[Joel Was Right]

Don't think I'm accusing just Islam of being sexist in it's dogma, but specifically restricting a woman from showing her hair regardless of excuse is sexist. You are forcing a woman to be modest in her beauty.

In this case, I suppose it comes down to the extent you agree with the reason for why hair is considered to be more of a component of female beauty than it is for male beauty. Are you required to be modest in how you present yourself in public? Yes. These are guidelines in how to be devout, humble; grey, even - a complete disconnection from the imagery of what it is to look beautiful to others.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Watching people trying to argue that Islam isn't fundamentally sexist is hilarious.

Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is amusing.

 

[SmokyDave]

Go back to the days of male only nudie Olympics while you're at it.

Works for me. Track events would be so much better with a bunch of cocks flapping in the wind.

Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is amusing.

Difference is, the woman on the left of the picture actually has a choice.

 

[marrec]

In this case, I suppose it comes down to the extent you agree with the reason for why hair is considered to be more of a component of female beauty than it is for male beauty.

All religions have their own form of sexism so this isn't something that unique to Islam, people are just much more sensitive to how Islamic women are treated these days because most Christian women aren't burned as witches anymore. If this woman were to choose to not wear a head covering then she would be unfairly treated when returning home whereas if a man were to simply wear a different type of clothing he would not be as unfairly treated.

Though, I don't know how they'd treat him if he shaved his beard or publicly drank alcohol.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

All religions have their own form of sexism so this isn't something that unique to Islam, people are just much more sensitive to how Islamic women are treated these days because most Christian women aren't burned as witches anymore.

or stoned or shot to death with an AK-47 because another man likes her etc

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is amusing.

Using the most extreme example of a Western female--in beach attire, no less-- to try to make a point.

Nice.

And you're commenting on someone else's narrow mindedness.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is amusing.

lol, because Western women are compelled to wear bikinis while walking down the street.

So dumb.

 

[Joel Was Right]

One way my Madrassa (Islamic) tutor once described life.

"This life is designed to be a prison for you [the believer]".

 

[gutter_trash]

for those who don't read French: ''Saudi Arabia accepts to send women to the Olympic games in London''

a satirical photoshop cartoon from a Montreal newspaper

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Well that's 4 posters who completely missed the point of that cartoon.

 

[Steelrain]

Well that's 4 posters who completely missed the point of that cartoon.

Explain the point then, please.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Well that's 4 posters who completely missed the point of that cartoon.

Please, enlighten us.

 

[SmokyDave]

Well that's 4 posters who completely missed the point of that cartoon.

The woman on the left has a choice. End of discussion.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Using the most extreme example of a Western female--in beach attire, no less-- to try to make a point.

Nice.

And you're commenting on someone else's narrow mindedness.

lol, because Western women are compelled to wear bikinis while walking down the street.

So dumb.

Although I don't agree with that image for the reason SmokeyDave highlighted, you're mistaken with his intent. The discussion surrounding Muslim women has been largely on the extent Muslim societies are male dominated. Therefore a woman wearing a Hijab, or more specifically, a Burqa, is therefore considered to be a tradition imposed by a male society to oppress their women.

However there is another discussion, one with the topic being western civilisation and the extent of its cultural traditions being male-centric (rather than male imposed in this case); the sexualisation of women in the media. To illustrate that, the image uses a bikini. There is another similar image that uses a mini-skirt and short cleavage top, to imply that these are the product of a male-centric society.

Basically, the crux being the complaint is similar in both societies; one directly and one indirectly.

 

[shinobi602]

Don't think I'm accusing just Islam of being sexist in it's dogma, but specifically restricting a woman from showing her hair regardless of excuse is sexist. You are forcing a woman to be modest in her beauty.

It's not restricting her beauty, there are just certain venues for them to express it in, like to their husbands only, and vice versa for the husbands. It's just to try to eliminate that sexual desire as best as possible, nothing to say she can't be beautiful.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Well that's 4 posters who completely missed the point of that cartoon.

lol, explain it since you believe there's more to get than we see here. We find it awfully simplistic, and it betrays itself with its short-sightedness.

Although I don't agree with that image for the reason SmokeyDave highlighted, you're mistaken with his intent. The discussion surrounding Muslim women has been largely on the extent Muslim societies are male dominated. Therefore a woman wearing a Hijab, or more specifically, a Burqa, is therefore considered to be a tradition imposed by a male society to oppress their women.

However there is another discussion, one with the topic being western civilisation and the extent of its cultural traditions being male-centric (rather than male imposed in this case); the sexualisation of women in the media. To illustrate that, the image uses a bikini. There is another similar image that uses a mini-skirt and short cleavage top, to imply that these are the product of a male-centric society.

We understand that too. It's extraordinarially simplistic to understand. But the imagery betrays the effort.

Letting women choose how they dress and what they want to wear is the issue. Whether or not men influence the decision-making is a different matter entirely and one that does not affect all women. Meanwhile, wearing those garbs is not an option in those countries. The issue is choice and freedom. Very simple to understand, and the point where that cartoon falls apart. It misses the core issue entirely.

 

[Canis lupus]

for those who don't read French: ''Saudi Arabia accepts to send women to the Olympic games in London''

a satirical photoshop cartoon from a Montreal newspaper

Ive seen like 1000s of that kind of satirical cartoons.

 

[Grim1ock]

Works for me. Track events would be so much better with a bunch of cocks flapping in the wind.



Difference is, the woman on the left of the picture actually has a choice.

are u implying muslim women who wear the hijab are forced into it and have no choice in the matter?

 

[marrec]

It's not restricting her beauty, there are just certain venues for them to express it in, like to their husbands only, and vice versa for the husbands. It's just to try to eliminate that sexual desire as best as possible, nothing to say she can't be beautiful.

First of all :lol at the bolded part.

Second, the values you are describing are sexist. They must cover their hair so that other men do not desire them, they are forced to hide any aspect of their sexuality simply because their husbands don't want other men to see them.

are u implying muslim women who wear the hijab are forced into it and have no choice in the matter?

The majority of the time, this is the case yes. Even if she 'willingly' wear the Hijab, it's only because of societal pressure, not because she actually can choose not to.

 

[Coquette]

So...of all the sports in the Olympics, the Saudis choose Judo to be the sport they send their female athlete to? One with strict uniform requirements for safety reason.

Why the hell didn't they send an archer or rifle shooter or something? Some of those athletes are covered head to toe already.

 

[Joel Was Right]

are u implying muslim women who wear the hijab are forced into it and have no choice in the matter?

Well, regardless of what he thinks on that topic, Muslim women are not allowed to wear bikinis or mini skirts

 

[marrec]

So...of all the sports in the Olympics, the Saudis choose Judo to be the sport they send their female athlete to? One with strict uniform requirements for safety reason.

Why the hell didn't they send an archer or rifle shooter or something? Some of those athletes are covered head to toe already.

Because controversy wouldn't have been stirred up by a woman refusing to remove the Hijab for an Archery competition.

It's very calculated I think.

 

[Alucrid]

Well, regardless of what he thinks on that topic, Muslim women are not allowed to wear bikinis or mini skirts

What if they're worn under their other garments?

 

[shinobi602]

First of all :lol at the bolded part.

Second, the values you are describing are sexist. They must cover their hair so that other men do not desire them, they are forced to hide any aspect of their sexuality simply because their husbands don't want other men to see them.

What's funny? I don't understand. They cover their hair and bodies to try to inhibit forbidden sexual desires, i.e. those out of wedlock. I believe Islam actually encourages intimacy and sexual intercourse between man and wife.

 

[Ashes]

How come the rules aren't being brought up? or am I missing something? Surely safety rules exist?

 

[Joel Was Right]

Second, the values you are describing are sexist. They must cover their hair so that other men do not desire them, they are forced to hide any aspect of their sexuality simply because their husbands don't want other men to see them.

Both are required to, effectively, water down their attractiveness to the opposite gender. The only distinction here in this case is that women cover their hair whereas men do not.

The majority of the time, this is the case yes. Even if she 'willingly' wear the Hijab, it's only because of societal pressure, not because she actually can choose not to.

That's a foolish thing for you to say. No doubt some are pressurised by family or society, but many do choose to wear it on their own accord. I'll say it again, for people who are seemingly supportive of women's rights, a number of you have shown a complete disregard for the sheer notion of these women being capable of making their own decisions, simply because those decisions are disagreeable to you - which is something, ironically, accused of their husbands.

 

[Alucrid]

How come the rules aren't being brought up? or am I missing something? Surely safety rules exist?

Do you work for the Saudi government in deciding which female athletes to send to the Olympics or something?

 

[Keylime]

How come the rules aren't being brought up? or am I missing something? Surely safety rules exist?

Any discussion going on in this thread at this point has nothing to do with the original story. The original story is an open and shut case of "who gives a fuck, she should withdraw...her fault."

All the crazy religious/culture discussions going on now have no relevance to this story...or if it does, no one's making it obvious how/why.

 

[Coquette]

Because controversy wouldn't have been stirred up by a woman refusing to remove the Hijab for an Archery competition.

It's very calculated I think.

Convenient. Very convenient.

 

[Ashes]

Do you work for the Saudi government in deciding which female athletes to send to the Olympics or something?

Since I despise the Saudi Government on a lot of humanitarian grounds, I'm not sure what the fuck you mean dude?

 

[Alucrid]

Since I despise the Saudi Government on a lot of humanitarian ground, I'm not sure what the fuck you mean dude?

It means the rules were already stated in the OP as being the reason why she can't wear the Hijab. The strict dress code of Judo as well as the safety concerns of having the Hijab on whilst competing. This is something that you and the Saudi government apparently overlooked.

 

[Steelrain]

What if they're worn under their other garments?

I know I saw some women wearing some sexy ass clothes under their burquas in Qatar. I could only get a brief flash of them when they were getting in/ out of the car though. Stilettos and sexy ass jeans.......damn I wish I could have seen the rest

Then again...I was there for a year and it was near impossible to get laid so I may have just been thirsty as fuck.

 

[Grim1ock]

First of all :lol at the bolded part.

Second, the values you are describing are sexist. They must cover their hair so that other men do not desire them, they are forced to hide any aspect of their sexuality simply because their husbands don't want other men to see them.



The majority of the time, this is the case yes. Even if she 'willingly' wear the Hijab, it's only because of societal pressure, not because she actually can choose not to.

It's this type of mentality that i really absolutely hate. The fact that muslim women cannot observe their religious obligations without some people implying that they are doing so under the watchful; eyes of fathers husbands brothers etc etc.

 

[Reuenthal]

If it is against regulations she should not be allowed to wear it. If it isn't she should be allowed.

And yes Islam is sexist and the Hijab is an oppressive tool of an ideology that sees women as inferior and has some rather strange and incorrect views on women and how they should behave.

Maybe it is possible that the custom will remain but the society will progress and the custom although continue existing, will no longer exist and function for sexist reasons but that does not really apply to Saudi Arabia.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

lol, explain it since you believe there's more to get than we see here. We find it awfully simplistic, and it betrays itself with its short-sightedness.

It's a political cartoon. All political cartoons are simplistic, serving to point out simple messages.

This cartoon is shows a clash of cultural ideals. Neither side is wrong with their beliefs and clothing choice, but they are both wrong in their judgement because both sides should respect the others choice of clothing and beliefs.

SmokeyDave will ramble on about "western culture has freedomzzz!" Well, Western culture has rules and laws the people must abide by as well. In Islamic culture, one of their rules is to wear headdresses. I'm not an expert on Islam, neither are you Dave, neither is anyone in this thread and if you are go ahead and post your resume. But my belief is the majority of Islamic women are perfectly content with the way things are.

I'd say 90% of them are, and the other 10% who are against traditional Islamic beliefs are similar but different from extreme feminists in the West (this comment will be quoted and taken out of context at some point).

I believe it's unfair to try and inflict my belief of what is right and wrong in this world based off Western culture onto a foreign culture that I don't fully understand. I believe Islamic culture rejects Western beliefs no matter how righteous we think our ways of life are in comparison to theirs. It's a relative subject and I can't relate directly to Middle Eastern culture, therefore I respect their culture and ways of life that differ from ours.

 

[Ashes]

Any discussion going on in this thread at this point has nothing to do with the original story. The original story is an open and shut case of "who gives a fuck, she should withdraw...her fault."

All the crazy religious/culture discussions going on now have no relevance to this story...or if it does, no one's making it obvious how/why.

Why are you in this thread if you don't give a fuck?

And the disallowance of an able athlete from the Olympics is a greater stain on the Olympic spirit. I mean presumly she is a professional athlete? She has competed in Judo before. I have no idea who she is.

 

[Count Dookkake]

It's a political cartoon. All political cartoons are simplistic, serving to point out simple messages.

This cartoon is shows a clash of cultural ideals. Neither side is wrong with their beliefs and clothing choice, but they are both wrong in their judgement because both sides should respect the others choice of clothing and beliefs.

SmokeyDave will ramble on about "western culture has freedomzzz!" Well, Western culture has rules and laws the people must abide by as well. In Islamic culture, one of their rules is to wear headdresses. I'm not an expert on Islam, neither are you Dave, neither is anyone in this thread and if you are go ahead and post your resume. But my belief is the majority of Islamic women are perfectly content with the way things are.

I'd say 90% of them are, and the other 10% who are against traditional Islamic beliefs are similar but different from extreme feminists in the West (this comment will be quoted and taken out of context at some point).

I believe it's unfair to try and inflict my belief of what is right and wrong in this world based off Western culture onto a foreign culture that I don't fully understand. I believe Islamic culture rejects Western beliefs no matter how righteous we think our ways of life are in comparison to theirs. It's a relative subject and I can't relate directly to Middle Eastern culture, therefore I respect their culture and ways of life that differ from ours.

Are you an expert on feminism?

Please post your resume.

 

[Alucrid]

It's a political cartoon. All political cartoons are simplistic, serving to point out simple messages.

This cartoon is shows a clash of cultural ideals. Neither side is wrong with their beliefs and clothing choice, but they are both wrong in their judgement because both sides should respect the others choice of clothing and beliefs.

SmokeyDave will ramble on about "western culture has freedomzzz!" Well, Western culture has rules and laws the people must abide by as well. In Islamic culture, one of their rules is to wear headdresses. I'm not an expert on Islam, neither are you Dave, neither is anyone in this thread and if you are go ahead and post your resume. But my belief is the majority of Islamic women are perfectly content with the way things are.

I'd say 90% of them are, and the other 10% who are against traditional Islamic beliefs are similar but different from extreme feminists in the West (this comment will be quoted and taken out of context at some point).

I believe it's unfair to try and inflict my belief of what is right and wrong in this world based off Western culture onto a foreign culture that I don't fully understand. I believe Islamic culture rejects Western beliefs no matter how righteous we think our ways of life are in comparison to theirs. It's a relative subject and I can't relate directly to Middle Eastern culture, therefore I respect their culture and ways of life that differ from ours.

So you're basically going with cultural relativism?

 

[Steelrain]

Why are you in this thread if you don't give a fuck?

And the disallowance of an able athlete from the Olympics is a greater stain on the Olympic spirit. I mean presumly she is a professional athlete? She has competed in Judo before. I have no idea who she is.

Nah she got a waiver to compete apparently. Just paraded in front of the world so Saudi could show its ass. She's completely outclassed.

 

[Joel Was Right]

If it is against regulations she should not be allowed to wear it. If it isn't she should be allowed.

And yes Islam is sexist and the Hijab is an oppressive tool of an ideology that sees women as inferior and has some rather strange and incorrect views on women.

It is rarely said, but, what if it was all these things to you but the complete opposite in a foreign, alien culture? If we look away from religion in this case, there are many values and tradition we as a species share in common, but there are also many things we interpret completely differently to one another. Do you remember this scene from Da Vinci Code? Maybe a father who walks with his young son and daughter doesn't think she is inferior simply because she is wearing a hijab?

 

[SmokyDave]

It's a political cartoon. All political cartoons are simplistic, serving to point out simple messages.

This cartoon is shows a clash of cultural ideals. Neither side is wrong with their beliefs and clothing choice, but they are both wrong in their judgement because both sides should respect the others choice of clothing and beliefs.

SmokeyDave will ramble on about "western culture has freedomzzz!" Well, Western culture has rules and laws the people must abide by as well. In Islamic culture, one of their rules is to wear headdresses. I'm not an expert on Islam, neither are you Dave, neither is anyone in this thread and if you are go ahead and post your resume. But my belief is the majority of Islamic women are perfectly content with the way things are.

I'd say 90% of them are, and the other 10% who are against traditional Islamic beliefs are similar but different from extreme feminists in the West (this comment will be quoted and taken out of context at some point).

I believe it's unfair to try and inflict my belief of what is right and wrong in this world based off Western culture onto a foreign culture that I don't fully understand. I believe Islamic culture rejects Western beliefs no matter how righteous we think our ways of life are in comparison to theirs. It's a relative subject and I can't relate directly to Middle Eastern culture, therefore I respect their culture and ways of life that differ from ours.

I'm an imam and I have no time for your cultural relativity. I like that you dismissed the woman's freedom with an effete wave of the hand though.