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[daycru]

US women aren't in danger of having acid thrown on them for not wearing their theocracy sanctioned uniform.

 

[causan]

Why doesn't she just shave her head. No hair no need for a Hijab right?

 

[Reuenthal]

It is rarely said, but, what if it was all these things to you but the complete opposite in a foreign, alien culture? If we look away from religion in this case, there are many values and tradition we as a species share in common, but there are also many things we interpret completely differently to one another. Maybe a father who walks with his young son and daughter doesn't think she is inferior simply because she is wearing a hijab?

A society is not made only by a father and his children. Furthermore parents can see their children as inferior in practice and apply incorrect double standards even if they claim that they don't see them as inferior in theory or don't think of them as inferior in that way.

If a father doesn't think his daughter as inferior but doesn't allow her to get out then there is a problem. If you don't want to use the word sees inferiority and use other words the problem still exists.

 

[Keylime]

Why are you in this thread if you don't give a fuck?

And the disallowance of an able athlete from the Olympics is a greater stain on the Olympic spirit. I mean presumly she is a professional athlete? She has competed in Judo before. I have no idea who she is.

Actually, she apparently isn't a professional athlete. It was said that she's a blue belt that didn't even win some other tournament to gain entry.

I'm in this thread because I can't believe this thread is still going. Everytime I think a thread will be as simple as a "yep...", it never ends up being so. I'm almost positive that no one is REALLY making the case that she should be allowed to fight despite obviously breaking the rules set for the sport for formal competition.

It was spelled out clearly that she wouldn't be able to fight if she wore it before she went. Going to the Olympics anyways and then demanding to wear it is bullshit. Claiming ignorance is crap because:

Saudi Arabia reached an agreement on the participation of Shaherkhani and Sarah Attar, an 800 meter runner, just two weeks ago after talks with the IOC.

 

[Chunky]

It's ridiculous that in 2012 entire nations can have such strong convictions on clothing.
Just have to wait for the old guard to die off, I guess.

 

[marrec]

That's a foolish thing for you to say. No doubt some are pressurised by family or society, but many do choose to wear it on their own accord. I'll say it again, for people who are seemingly supportive of women's rights, a number of you have shown a complete disregard for the sheer notion of these women being capable of making their own decisions, simply because those decisions are disagreeable to you - which is something, ironically, accused of their husbands.

How is it her own decision if a woman faces real danger for not wearing it? I'm not sure you understand what I'm getting at here. Prior to the sexual freedom movement of the 60s and 70s, women in America were free to sleep around, but chose not to because of the social stigma of being labeled a slut. The same can be said for wearing a head covering. Would you call the sexual repression of America's past sexist?

It's this type of mentality that i really absolutely hate. The fact that muslim women cannot observe their religious obligations without some people implying that they are doing so under the watchful; eyes of fathers husbands brothers etc etc.

See above.

 

[Ashes]

It means the rules were already stated in the OP as being the reason why she can't wear the Hijab. The strict dress code of Judo as well as the safety concerns of having the Hijab on whilst competing. This is something that you and the Saudi government apparently overlooked.

lol. I see.

 

[Monocle]

Go back to the days of male only nudie Olympics while you're at it.

Some might say that second part would be a great improvement. It would certainly enliven the duller sports.

 

[Grim1ock]

It's a political cartoon. All political cartoons are simplistic, serving to point out simple messages.

This cartoon is shows a clash of cultural ideals. Neither side is wrong with their beliefs and clothing choice, but they are both wrong in their judgement because both sides should respect the others choice of clothing and beliefs.

SmokeyDave will ramble on about "western culture has freedomzzz!" Well, Western culture has rules and laws the people must abide by as well. In Islamic culture, one of their rules is to wear headdresses. I'm not an expert on Islam, neither are you Dave, neither is anyone in this thread and if you are go ahead and post your resume. But my belief is the majority of Islamic women are perfectly content with the way things are.

I'd say 90% of them are, and the other 10% who are against traditional Islamic beliefs are similar but different from extreme feminists in the West (this comment will be quoted and taken out of context at some point).

I believe it's unfair to try and inflict my belief of what is right and wrong in this world based off Western culture onto a foreign culture that I don't fully understand. I believe Islamic culture rejects Western beliefs no matter how righteous we think our ways of life are in comparison to theirs. It's a relative subject and I can't relate directly to Middle Eastern culture, therefore I respect their culture and ways of life that differ from ours.

Nice words but when it comes to islam and muslims there will be a lack of repect. Even a simply thing such as a headscarf which even nuns from christianity wear does not escape sneer and disdain from folks on this thread. So what chance do other practices islam have in general?

May be i should have listened to my cousin who once said ' i do not concern myself on what people think of my attire' what matters is i follow my religious obligations.

marrec,

i don't know which muslim woman you have met who is threatened by not wearing the hijab but i can assure you my mother who is in her 60s and my sisters have been wearing it even when my dad passed away when i was 14.

 

[phosphor112]

neither are, despite how hard our backward sheikhs try to make it a central part of the religion.

Modesty is a central part of the religion, but Hijab doesn't necessarily mean "head scarf." Regarding "hijab" though, here are verses discussing it.

EDIT: beaten

 

[VelvetMouth]

Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is amusing.

Here's the great thing about that comic, the woman in the bikini can choose to wear a muumuu over her bikini and then take it off in front of men at the pool if she wants to. The woman in the burka will always be in that burka and won't be allowed to go to the pool where there are men.

Freedom of choice it's delicious.

 

[Enco]

She's being forced into it by men back home. She MUST take it off or she we wont let her play!

If she wants to wear it it's up to her. Fuck what everyone else thinks. In this case it's a tough call. If the reason for this is the 'spirit' of judo, it would be some bullshit. If it's for safety then I can see it.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Here's the great thing about that comic, the woman in the bikini can choose to wear a muumuu over her bikini and then take it off in front of men at the pool if she wants to. The woman in the burka will always be in that burka and won't be allowed to go to the pool where there are men.

Freedom of choice it's delicious.

That would be an interesting performance art bit.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Are you an expert on feminism?

Please post your resume.

Never claimed to be anything.

I see your resume shows that your an expert in building straw man arguments. You might want to put education on the top of your resume because your posting experience is weak.

 

[Ikael]

Retire then. Yet another case of forcing the world to change for you rather than the other way around that so many religious fundamentalists seems to cherish.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Never claimed to be anything.

I was just wondering, because you were talking like you were when you gave percentages and differences. But thank you for admitting that you are not an expert and were instead just making stuff up.

Lol at the rest.

 

[speculawyer]

Bye! Sorry you've got superstitions that don't allow you to participate in the modern world.

 

[Ashes]

Bye! Sorry you've got superstitions that don't allow you to participate in the modern world.

That's the Olympic spirit! `Woot¬!

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I was just wondering, because you were talking like you were when you gave percentages and differences. But thank you for admitting that you are not an expert and were instead just making stuff up.

Lol at the rest.

I posted my belief. Obviously it's made up because I put thought into it myself instead of following the status quo. So your right. I'm capable of forming my own opinions.

Edit: Let's just get back on-topic. This is a sporting event with safety regulations that she must abide by. Her safety and sanctity of the sport comes first.

 

[Hindle]

I've had conversations with Muslim women who say they would love to wear western clothes, or let their hair down etc but they say they won't because it would shame their families. The idea that they want to wear the burqa is absurd. It's rather they do or they end up like Shafeala Ahmed, found in a ditch by a river.

 

[Ashes]

I've had conversations with Muslim women who say they would love to wear western clothes, or let their hair down etc but they say they won't because it would shame their families. The idea that they want to wear the burqa is absurd. It's rather they do or they end up like Sheela Ackmed, found in a ditch by a river.

I know a heck of a lot of Muslim women, and that's just bullshit.

 

[Joel Was Right]

How is it her own decision if a woman faces real danger for not wearing it? I'm not sure you understand what I'm getting at here. Prior to the sexual freedom movement of the 60s and 70s, women in America were free to sleep around, but chose not to because of the social stigma of being labeled a slut. The same can be said for wearing a head covering. Would you call the sexual repression of America's past sexist?



See above.

In the case of Muslim societies which like to portray themselves as pseudo-theocracies, if not full theocracies, everyone can potentially face dangers for not behaving like a good Muslim. You could extend that logic by arguing how can it be their own decision to be Muslim in the first place if they face repercussions for not being so. But to this point about women specifically, look at more freer societies in the West where there isn't as much pressure to conform; most women not only wear the Hijab but a growing number are defiantly opting to wear the Niqaab. Why? Maybe their husbands forced them, maybe their families? But there is a third option; they became devout and chose to. Question you have to ask yourself, is, are there Muslim families where women are dominant in the household? (Yes) Can women be devout? (Yes).

My own sister and aunt, who do the oppressing in their households, wear it and they are very religious. I'm sure they aren't the only ones in the world. But to assume automatically that they were forced is to presume there are no such women. With all due respect, you are no position to quantify. If you do want to, then I suggest you go make contact with Muslim women - ask them when you see them on a street, or register on a forum. That is if you are prepared to assume the aren't 'trained' to give you false answers, as I've seen some suggest

 

[Keylime]

I've had conversations with Muslim women who say they would love to wear western clothes, or let their hair down etc but they say they won't because it would shame their families. The idea that they want to wear the burqa is absurd. It's rather they do or they end up like Sheela Ackmed, found in a ditch by a river.

I know a heck of a lot of Muslim women, and that's just bullshit.

"Anecdotal evidence!"

"Counter-anecdotal evidence!"

 

[Count Dookkake]

I posted my belief. Obviously it's made up because I put thought into it myself instead of following the status quo. So your right. I'm capable of forming my own opinions.

This is great stuff.

 

[Ashes]

"Anecdotal evidence!"

"Counter-anecdotal evidence!"

lol. There are studies on Muslim women thought too.

 

[phosphor112]

Difference is, the woman on the left of the picture actually has a choice.

Tell that to my wife. =]

 

[Alucrid]

I've had conversations with Muslim women who say they would love to wear western clothes, or let their hair down etc but they say they won't because it would shame their families. The idea that they want to wear the burqa is absurd. It's rather they do or they end up like Sheela Ackmed, found in a ditch by a river.

what are their thoughts on louis vuitton handbags?

 

[Ashes]

Tell that to my wife. =]

What are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would wear a burka! Dumb traumatised comatose ignorant religious fundamentalist whose husband beats the fuck out of her if she won't is the sole reason for why musilm women in the uk etc wear it. Not choice.

/end of discussion.

 

[Alucrid]

What are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would wear a burka! Dumb traumatised comatose ignorant religious fundamentalist whose husband beats the fuck out of her if she won't is the sole reason for why musilm women in the uk etc wear it. Not choice.

/end of discussion.

I think he's saying that he forces his wife to wear a bikini all the time.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Tell that to my wife. =]

Brofist

Edit: lol @ ashes overreaction and failure

 

[shinobi602]

What are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would wear a burka! Dumb traumatised comatose ignorant religious fundamentalist whose husband beats the fuck out of her if she won't is the sole reason for why musilm women in the uk etc wear it. Not choice.

/end of discussion.

Wow...

 

[VelvetMouth]

what are their thoughts on louis vuitton handbags?

During Ramadan gold rush the high end stores in London including Louis Vuitton make millions off Arab men and women buying luxury goods. You see women in burkas carrying bags of designer goods that they have to wear under the burkas.

 

[Dark Octave]

What are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would wear a burka! Dumb traumatised comatose ignorant religious fundamentalist whose husband beats the fuck out of her if she won't is the sole reason for why musilm women in the uk etc wear it. Not choice.

/end of discussion.

Oh boy...

 

[Ashes]

I think he's saying that he forces his wife to wear a bikini all the time.

Oh boy...

Ahem.

 

[SmokyDave]

What are you talking about? Nobody in their right mind would wear a burka! Dumb traumatised comatose ignorant religious fundamentalist whose husband beats the fuck out of her if she won't is the sole reason for why musilm women in the uk etc wear it. Not choice.

/end of discussion.

I love that you had to add 'in the UK' to your rant. Wouldn't have worked if you applied it to the woman in the OP or the cartoon, would it?

 

[shinshero]

What!? Do they not realize this is bigger than that!!

This is the SPIRIT OF A NINJA!!!

You think you are being funny but in reality you are just being offensive. I think the question is, will you realise this?

 

[Ashes]

I love that you had to add 'in the UK' to your rant. Wouldn't have worked if you applied it to the woman in the OP or the cartoon, would it?

Does the cartoon not apply to UK women?

 

[Hindle]

Ahem.

Some choose to wear it then that's fine but what if they don't want to? Research the name I mentioned.

 

[Ashes]

Some choose to wear it then that's fine but what if they don't want to? Research the name I mentioned.

What name?

 

[Hindle]

We're getting away from the point, it's rather she takes it off or she leaves the games.

 

[Hindle]

What name?

Shafilea Ahmed.

 

[deadlast]

HOLY SHIT GAF.

I came in here to discuss Judo and noticed this tread has become the the thesis and antithesis for Muslim head gear.

Also, LoL at Spirit of the Ninja and the Bane mockups.

 

[Ashes]

We're getting away from the point, it's rather she takes it off or she leaves the games.

I brought up rules earlier because Fifa [the governing body of a different sport, namely Football] changed their rules on headgear before the Olympic games. At least I think they did.

 

[Rentahamster]

Female participation in sports has long been a controversial issue in Saudi Arabia, where conservative Muslim clerics have said it is immodest and goes against women's nature.

I'm sure they are totally experts at what truly is women's nature. Totally.

 

[Metroid Killer]

You think you are being funny but in reality you are just being offensive. I think the question is, will you realise this?

Yes and yes.

 

[J-Rod]

I hope they find a way to accommodate her.

 

[Ashes]

Shafilea Ahmed.

I recall the case. Choosing an isolated incident isn't defining the norm though. The allowance of prejudice based on criminals so to speak isn't justified here. I was never or hardly anyone argues that there are no serious inequalities in the muslim world.

edit: e.g. we are talking about a Saudi Government that does not allow female citizens to drive.

 

[marrec]

In the case of Muslim societies which like to portray themselves as pseudo-theocracies, if not full theocracies, everyone can potentially face dangers for not behaving like a good Muslim. You could extend that logic by arguing how can it be their own decision to be Muslim in the first place if they face repercussions for not being so. But to this point about women specifically, look at more freer societies in the West where there isn't as much pressure to conform; most women not only wear the Hijab but a growing number are defiantly opting to wear the Niqaab. Why? Maybe their husbands forced them, maybe their families? But there is a third option; they became devout and chose to. Question you have to ask yourself, is, are there Muslim families where women are dominant in the household? (Yes) Can women be devout? (Yes).

My own sister and aunt, who do the oppressing in their households, wear it and they are very religious. I'm sure they aren't the only ones in the world. But to assume automatically that they were forced is to presume there are no such women. With all due respect, you are no position to quantify. If you do want to, then I suggest you go make contact with Muslim women - ask them when you see them on a street, or register on a forum. That is if you are prepared to assume the aren't 'trained' to give you false answers, as I've seen some suggest

Perhaps I misspoke when I presumed that the majority were forced into it one way or another. Of course their are general repercussions for all Muslim's depending on what sect/how devout the community. What specifically I'm speaking of though was not addressed by what you've typed. It was frowned upon for men to be very sexually promiscuous but never to the extent that it was for women. The same can be said for disobeying basic religious requirements in some Muslim communities and this includes the wearing of a head covering. The Hijab is not, of course, the most sexist thing about Islam, just one of the most identifiably sexist things by western cultures because they must wear them in public. Not only are the laws against women more restrictive, but the penalties are also more severe.

Again, this is not something that's unique to Islam. We could also, if you wanted to, talk about how women in the Catholic religion all are perfectly fine with not being able to have any position of power within the church, but how that's still a sexist policy.

 

[Daydream Sequence]

I posted my belief. Obviously it's made up because I put thought into it myself instead of following the status quo. So your right. I'm capable of forming my own opinions.

Edit: Let's just get back on-topic. This is a sporting event with safety regulations that she must abide by. Her safety and sanctity of the sport comes first.

Believing it's infinitely better to have the choice to wear whatever the hell you want freely vs being forced to wear one specific thing regardless of your desire to do so is "following the status quo"? Please tell me what other oppressive behavior I should be more willing to accept.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I hope they find a way to accommodate her.

I hope so to, but she is gonna get thumped.