Frackers get more subsidies. Russia's economy on the other hand could lose over 200$ billion because of the sanctions and low oil prices. Will be interesting to see if Putin is going to get more popular due all the propaganda or will the people wake up and take it to streets again. I guess it's not all propaganda.
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Saudis block OPEC output cut, oil price sinks $4
- Thread starter vpance
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One is a country and the other is an industry in an otherwise very diversified economy.
It should be: Russia (as well as VEN, ANG, NGR, etc.) will hurt. U.S....not so much.
zero shift
Banned
Venezuela needs to diversify it's economy and severely crackdown on its corruption.
The country has always faced these problems. The recent "socialist" movement just further centralized it.
Don Chalupa
Banned
I think the Russian end game is war at this point, since the West has stirred the pot enough with Ukraine, that its only a matter of who shoots first. I think the Saudis are aiming to target Canada and US shale oil, which is pretty much guaranteed to crash at this point. With that goes our fickle "recovery" I think.
Here is from bloomberg:
OPEC Policy Ensures U.S. Shale Crash, Russian Tycoon Says
Oil at $75 Means Patches of Texas Shale Turn Unprofitable
When you say war, do you mean metaphorically, as an economic war or an actual military conflict? Because an economic war is laughable, Russia can't really do shit to the U.S. and a real conflict means everybody loses including Putin so what would Russia gain from that?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
#approvekeystone
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Yup. The GOP senate is gonna funnel money so the frackers can weather this. Don't cry for them.
It won't. The time horizon for the new mines and SAGD operations is measured in decades. Production will continue to grow and thus, so will the pipelines.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Alberta is fucked.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
This doesn't change the fuel efficiency improvements that vehicle manufacturers have to make to their vehicles by certain years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/b...s-tighter-fuel-efficiency-standards.html?_r=0
How is this bad for the environment, other than maybe slowing down the adoption of electric vehicles?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/b...s-tighter-fuel-efficiency-standards.html?_r=0
How is this bad for the environment, other than maybe slowing down the adoption of electric vehicles?
Sapiens
Member
Didn't you hear, dude? Canada is fine forever. Keep spending - especially on houses that sextuple your yearly salary.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
What part of this post makes sense to you at all? Yes, they have the biggest pull to use rubles instead of dollars when prices are the lowest they've been in years and they're worried about having an oversupply problem....
What?
Surely China isn't going to pay Russia a premium for the oil just for the privilege of getting paid in Rubles instead of Dollars.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
If a good is cheaper, people use more of it. More oil usage=more CO2 (regardless of how efficiently the oil is used)=more danger from climate change.
I won't cry for Russia getting fucked tho. They deserve it.
This has almost nothing to do with Keystone. It is about a cartel (OPEC, but more specifically Sauda Arabia) attempting to drive competition out of the market. They are attempting to protect market share. Besides, many Canadian producers are now using railcars to ship crude when there exists pipeline bottlenecks.
Since I'm too lazy to write a summary of the break even costs for oil production in N.A., here is a picture instead. Canadian producers are relatively secure at the moment because of the depreciation in the CAD relative to the USD.
Exactly. As long as the oil sands are profitable, the sheer quantity of resources there will continue to marginalize OPEC. By bringing the prices down and pushing the US and Canadian producers out of the market, they can attempt to regain control and work on raising prices again (with the hopes that the costs of restarting oil sands production drives the per-barrel cost up at least a few dollars).
What we need to be doing is concentrating on using less oil. It's not fun to be held over a barrel by a religious theocracy half a world away, being used as pawns in a petty geopolitical squabble.
Standards can be axed. I'm not worried for the long term though, oil prices can be very jumpy and it's only a matter of time until a barrel costs the double of what we have now.
I only hope the fun lasts until the next provincial and federal elections
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Keystone Pipeline wouldn't make a dent regardless.
They want the small time frakers to go bust and they will at this rate its a very risky and expensive method of extracting oil that yields far fewer barrels and wells dry quicker. Don't get used to to cheap gas the Saudis are just trying their hardest to turn back time in their direction.
that's what I'm thinking as well. at these prices saudi arabia isn't making any profit either but they have gazillions in their war chest compared to small frackers.
This is all about crippling Iran and Russia. Both rely heavily on expensive oil to fund their government. Russia was already projected to lose close to 150 billion dollars weeks ago before this decision which will just increase their losses. The Russian economy and Government must have 100+ dollar a barrel oil to function.
US and Saudis teamed up in the 80s to do this to the USSR and it greatly sped up the demise of the USSR. Now its being done to turn the wrench on Putin
US and Saudis teamed up in the 80s to do this to the USSR and it greatly sped up the demise of the USSR. Now its being done to turn the wrench on Putin
On a per barrel basis Saudi Aramco is undoubtedly still turning a strong profit. However, the question is whether OPEC governments can achieve a balanced budget with sub $100 oil, which this article suggests, they cant.
enanogrande
Member
Bingo.
Discordian_taco
Member
I usually trade the e-mini S&P futures exclusively but I've been trading oil futures the past 3 weeks and have made a killing shorting. Best thanksgiving ever 
vpance
Member
I usually trade the e-mini S&P futures exclusively but I've been trading oil futures the past 3 weeks and have made a killing shorting. Best thanksgiving ever
Good job bro, what's your trading platform?
I remember when shit started going down in Bahrain back in 2011, also made a killing trading oil and PM futures. My account was up like 500% in a few days.
Dont worry i will be ok..
The whole Keystone debate is ridiculous. It won't have much economic impact, won't create new jobs (35 total), and contrary to what environmentalists are yelling - won't be detrimental to the planet (as compared to other methods of oil transportation). The whole thing is a waste of time, but has managed to blow up into this major right v left political chimera.
Discordian_taco
Member
I use tradestation. I love their programming interface.
Aaron Strife
Banned
$2/gal gas please
Phantast2k
Member
Russia is indeed fucked in all of this, especially since they keep ignoring the price fall (or kept doing so up until now) while also continuing to aggravate the world with their medling in Ukraine (and Syria).
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/26/russia-oil-finmin-idUKL6N0TG1AJ20141126
The fall of the rouble basically goes hand in hand with the falling oil price & sanctions. Now watch Russia deplete its foreign currency reserves as it has to cover the hole in the federal budget along with bailing out companies hit by sanctions while also trying to stabilize the rouble.
Not to forget that their nice & profitable reserves are depleting while the other oil & gas wells require Western hi-tech: BBC News - Russian oil industry facing deep freeze
At the same time they will have to spend money to keep Crimea alive which gets all of its utilities, including water, from Ukraine. They will keep spending money to prop the "republics" they broke away from Ukraine. Not to forget billions in fines which will hit them soon for seizure of all sorts of Ukrainian assets in Crimea once int. courts will start to look at it. They already lost in court for appropriating Yukos for which they will have to cough up $50 billion soonish.
And yet will they keep expanding their military spending (because they think NATO is out to murder them..) and even go as far as planning to establish their own space station next to the ISS: Russia To Deploy Its Own Space Station In 2017: Report and increasing their propaganda efforts.
It's like they're reliving the fall of the Soviet Union, but in fast forward.
But BTT: Here's a new article which focuses on the consequences for oil producing nations:
http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-opec-and-the-price-of-oil-2014-11
Also some interesting figures:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/11/26/russia-oil-finmin-idUKL6N0TG1AJ20141126
The fall of the rouble basically goes hand in hand with the falling oil price & sanctions. Now watch Russia deplete its foreign currency reserves as it has to cover the hole in the federal budget along with bailing out companies hit by sanctions while also trying to stabilize the rouble.
Not to forget that their nice & profitable reserves are depleting while the other oil & gas wells require Western hi-tech: BBC News - Russian oil industry facing deep freeze
At the same time they will have to spend money to keep Crimea alive which gets all of its utilities, including water, from Ukraine. They will keep spending money to prop the "republics" they broke away from Ukraine. Not to forget billions in fines which will hit them soon for seizure of all sorts of Ukrainian assets in Crimea once int. courts will start to look at it. They already lost in court for appropriating Yukos for which they will have to cough up $50 billion soonish.
And yet will they keep expanding their military spending (because they think NATO is out to murder them..) and even go as far as planning to establish their own space station next to the ISS: Russia To Deploy Its Own Space Station In 2017: Report and increasing their propaganda efforts.
It's like they're reliving the fall of the Soviet Union, but in fast forward.
But BTT: Here's a new article which focuses on the consequences for oil producing nations:
http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-opec-and-the-price-of-oil-2014-11
Also some interesting figures:
jamesinclair
Banned
RAISE GAS TAXES NOW OBAMA, FOR FUCKS SAKE
Also some interesting figures:
So basically, we could solve some world's problems by going fuel efficiency and/or electric cars.
This idea really intrigues me. I'm not sure it's gonna pay off as I can see the USA supporting the fracking industry with subsidies, not to mention ever cheaper solar.
FullMetalx117
Member
The U.S. government really needs to allow oil exports. OPEC's relevancy in the world would definitely diminish at that point.
speculawyer
Member
Amazing. I didn't think we'd see oil this low. I figured around $75 would be the bottom.
Don't expect this to last.
I hope this puts some pressure on Russia to leave Ukraine and puts pressure on Iran to sign a nuclear deal.
Don't expect this to last.
I hope this puts some pressure on Russia to leave Ukraine and puts pressure on Iran to sign a nuclear deal.
ramuh
Member
We should do like the guys on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Check out the episode, "The Gang Solves the Gas Crisis."
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
wait. you do understand that's congress' job right?
I wouldn't be upset if this led to a cease of fracking & a focus on alternative forms of energy. Our government loves to preach that fracking is giving us fuel independence but we are importing the same amount from overseas as ever, so it clearly isn't the case. True independence will come if we look to other means of energy - be it solar, wind, hydro, etc..
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
This is in contradiction to this
so what is it guys? the US government doesn't allow oil export so that all the oil is in the US which means we're importing less?
or the US government allow oil export and we're still importing oil?
One of you guys is mistaken and wrong
Yes, as a Canadian who doesn't like the Harper Government this and the other pipeline we are trying to get approved are the only things I agree with them about.
I'll try to find the link I read from a couple of weeks ago, but we are still importing lots of oil. Let me try to track it down.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
it's not a lot. it's 6000 barrels a day
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_neti_a_EP00_IMN_mbblpd_a.htm
Nobody really knows how low fracking and non-opec supply can drive the price, even the Russian oligarch, but the Saudis just gave us an extra few months to find out. The problem is that if they decide to cut they have to police the output of other countries, and even if that is managed without any cheating it lets non-opec oil regions step in and make up for that loss in supply.
They're also in a comfortable enough position to allow the price to drop in the short term until demand picks up in the longer term from expanding economies.
Why are these figures so different?
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
because yours is total import. mine is import - export.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_wkly_dc_NUS-Z00_mbblpd_w.htm
this is better for you.
This. As much as I hate raising taxes, this is a must.
So we are exporting more than ever, and importing around a 1,000 fewer barrels per day than we were in 2000.
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