winjer
Gold Member
I guess this is my fault for expecting an adult discussion on Neogaf.
Then start thinking like an adult.
Your moronic arguments make you sound like a petulant child, trying to defend something that is ostensibly wrong.
I guess this is my fault for expecting an adult discussion on Neogaf.
Well, given that you and that other guy jumped straight to ad hominems, I wonder who the "petulant childs" are.Then start thinking like an adult.
Your moronic arguments make you sound like a petulant child, trying to defend something that is ostensibly wrong.
At the very least you need regulation to ensure scalpers are paying income taxes. A store scalping their customers pays taxes and the government can't do anything about it.Never was a problem that needed government regulation in any case. I don't need "regulation" to know that I should avoid buying from scalpers.
Adult discussion? You are a scalper. You make things more expensive that others need or want. You won't find any sympathy or people who understand you here, only people who despise you.I guess this is my fault for expecting an adult discussion on Neogaf.
Well, given that you and that other guy jumped straight to ad hominems, I wonder who the "petulant childs" are.
I gave you my reasons, you mocked (while also not making any arguments whatsoever).
I'm out.
You know what's worse than finding the product at twice the price? Not finding the product at all.
Now, imagine if instead of GPUs, it was food and medicine.
I don't have to imagine it.
Scallpers don't solve scarcity. They solve resource allocation.
Because only those who really need it will be willing to pay the high prices.
You people have no idea what you're talking about.
Do you realize that people can't find the product because the scalpers buy it with bots instead of using normal methods...right?I guess this is my fault for expecting an adult discussion on Neogaf.
They can't find it... at MSRP.Do you realize that people can't find the product because the scalpers buy it with bots instead of using normal methods...right?
No, there wouldn't be more product.There would be more product for everyone at mspr price if scalpers weren't a thing.
No, they don't increase supply. But some product at a higher price is better than no product at all.Scalpers don't create new gpus, they are just doubling the price of what it was already available to buy.
Of course. No one is disputing that.The number of gpu sold by nvidia is the exact same, scalpers or not, the exact same number of people are gonna be happy to get a gpu, scalpers or not.
Having the product available in the first place.Scalpers only make some people pay more, not sure what positives they bring to the table.
So much wrong in this that I fail to believe you could possibly be serious.They can't find it... at MSRP.
They can find it... at scalper prices.
No, there wouldn't be more product.
No, they don't increase supply. But some product at a higher price is better than no product at all.
Of course. No one is disputing that.
Having the product available in the first place.
And you wanna know what's ironic? Scalpers exist because retailers can't set their own prices, either by law or by the manufacturer.
I guess this is my fault for expecting an adult discussion on Neogaf.
So much wrong in this that I fail to believe you could possibly be serious.
I lived this with food and medicine instead of PC components. And for about 3 years.You're the one childishly comparing expensive GPUs with food and medicine.
You're the one childishly comparing expensive GPUs with food and medicine.
But even if it was food and medicine. A scalper would just make these essential products unavailable to poor people, adding to their woes.
So in that situation, scalpers would make a bad situation, much worse, by adding a lot of injustice to it.
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Go on, explain the situation. I'm generally curious.I lived this with food and medicine instead of PC components. And for about 3 years.
I'm dead serious.
Government regulations made products like food and medicine scarce and hard to find.Go on, explain the situation. I'm generally curious.
I really wish people would just take a course in econ 101/102 instead of trying to invent a new form of economics. (Since they're basically arguing for price controls, IE price ceilings, which don't have a good track record to put it mildly) Then again I've seen people argue for a new form of physics instead of taking physics 101 and end up with energy not being conserved.If scallping becomes illegal, you won't find the product to begin with, regardless of the retail price.
How do I know this? I've lived it... and with far more important products than graphics cards.
Yeah, life's not fair. Welcome to the real world.
You probably couldn’t find it because the scalpers who bought it all also moved to the black market.Government regulations made products like food and medicine scarce and hard to find.
But at least we had scalpers (we call them "bachaqueros") selling those at a much higher price. It was expensive, and we hated their guts, but at least you could find it.
Government then made scalping illegal because it was "unfair" and "parasitic", and the situation went from bad to worse. Instead of finding the product at a higher price, the product was gone altogether.
For 3 years, it was a constant struggle trying to find food or medicine. And when we managed to find some on the black market (which also arose thanks ot those same regulations) we traded it with others who could get it or gave to family and friends who couldn't.
I honestly wish no one on this site has to live through something like that.
It's also why every time people bitch about scalpers, I can't take them seriously. It all just boils down to "it's unfair".
Yeah, life's not fair. Welcome to the real world.
Sorry you had to go through that.Government regulations made products like food and medicine scarce and hard to find.
But at least we had scalpers (we call them "bachaqueros") selling those at a much higher price. It was expensive, and we hated their guts, but at least you could find it.
Government then made scalping illegal because it was "unfair" and "parasitic", and the situation went from bad to worse. Instead of finding the product at a higher price, the product was gone altogether.
For 3 years, it was a constant struggle trying to find food or medicine. And when we managed to find some on the black market (which also arose thanks ot those same regulations) we traded it with others who could get it or gave to family and friends who couldn't.
I honestly wish no one on this site has to live through something like that.
It's also why every time people bitch about scalpers, I can't take them seriously. It all just boils down to "it's unfair".
Yeah, life's not fair. Welcome to the real world.
Now you're asking the real questions.How were the "bachaqueros" obtaining the food and medicine?
I'm thinking if the scalpers didn't buy all the scarce products, they wouldn't be scarce to begin with, and the prices would have been lower.
Or they weren't scalpers but smugglers maybe?
Anyway the way you put it, it still makes zero sense. Products don't "disappear" when there's no scalpers to buy them.
Scalpers are not "the issue", they're a symptom.Scalpers are still the issue.
You probably couldn’t find it because the scalpers who bought it all also moved to the black market.
Scalpers are still the issue.
What? No, that's not how it works.
Scalpers only go after items they believe to be in high enough demand for them to be able to increase the price beyond what they originally paid in order to make a profit. The key words being high demand. Their whole "business model" hinges on it.
If the item is in high demand then the product would sell out regardless of whether scalpers exist or not, the supply fails to meet demand and you end up with a bunch of customers waiting for the product they need/want. On the flip side, if the demand isn't high enough (and or/supply being too high) then you end up with the exact scenario depicted in the subject of this thread.
Removing a single factor from economies or sub-economies rarely solves any problems. Issues when they exist tend to be multifaceted.
If the ‘scalpers’ aren’t buying the products from your local retail stores then they aren’t scalpers, they’re smugglers.Scalpers are not "the issue", they're a symptom.
In this case, the real issue is retailers being unable to set their own prices, either by law or by the manufacturer.
Let retailers compete with scalpers on the same level and you'll see prices drop real quick.
At the very least you need regulation to ensure scalpers are paying income taxes. A store scalping their customers pays taxes and the government can't do anything about it.
A dude buying all of bestbuy's stock through bots and scripts just to sell it on ebay with an 80% profit doesn't pay any taxes and might even be applying for unemployment benefits. That shit's criminal.
Scalpers are far from being the issue in the scenario he described. He even told you in the very same post you quoted where the source of the issue is.
People need to understand one thing - scalpers are a symptom of economic imbalance (where supply fails to meet demand). Thats not to say they don't end up causing other problems, and more often than not end up exasperating the original problem, but they are never the source of the issue.
Scalpers are far from being the issue in the scenario he described. He even told you in the very same post you quoted where the source of the issue is.
People need to understand one thing - scalpers are a symptom of economic imbalance (where supply fails to meet demand). Thats not to say they don't end up causing other problems, and more often than not end up exasperating the original problem, but they are never the source of the issue.
As per my previous post, I think he’s talking about products that aren’t available at retail at all, that’s nothing to do with scalping.Scalpers are far from being the issue in the scenario he described. He even told you in the very same post you quoted where the source of the issue is.
People need to understand one thing - scalpers are a symptom of economic imbalance (where supply fails to meet demand). Thats not to say they don't end up causing other problems, and more often than not end up exasperating the original problem, but they are never the source of the issue.
All true except for one thing.The thing with Venezuela was that when Maduro gained power, inflation started to rise. Right in his first year.
So as a brilliant dictator that he is, he decided to implement price regulations, to force prices down. (Ley Orgánica de Precios Justos)
The thing is that the value of the coin was still dropping. So companies that bought foreign products had to sell them at a lower cost than what they paid for. For a while it was great for Venezuelans, as they could get things much cheaper.
But companies stopped buying foreign goods, because if they did, they would lose a lot of money. So the stock of products available in the country dropped hard.
Enters the black market and scalpers, making a lot of money by selling the last remaining stock.
But they didn't solve anything. They just out priced millions of people from being able to buy the things they needed.
Brian0057's family was lucky to be wealthier than most Venezuelans. But for every rich person that could buy these products at scalper prices, there were millions that could not.
And this was a great injustice for millions of Venezuelans, so we can thank scalpers for making a terrible situation even worse. Just not for rich people.
All true except for one thing.
My family and I are not rich. We're not even middle class.
And even then, we saved everything we could in foreign currency in order to buy those products.
And one thing I've seen is some of those with enough money to buy at scalper prices would often sell cheaper (or even gift) to those that couldn't do it.
Remove scalpers and even that option is gone. Which is exactly what happened.
No no no, scalpers have evolved way past that, in the current market scalpers create the very demand themselves and exploit people for it. And we have to take the bill.People need to understand one thing - scalpers are a symptom of economic imbalance (where supply fails to meet demand). Thats not to say they don't end up causing other problems, and more often than not end up exasperating the original problem, but they are never the source of the issue.
I can't believe some of the posts here.
Who would have thought that scalpers were doing the world a service by doubling the price of goods. Even the economic darwinism scalpers practice should be cheered, because they allow the wealthy to have better access at the expense of the poor? The more you know.
Here I was thinking that the best option would be for the end-users to buy the products directly at MSRP.
Then start thinking like an adult.
Your moronic arguments make you sound like a petulant child, trying to defend something that is ostensibly wrong.
I'm not seeing the posts saying scalpers are necessarily a good thing.
Because literally no one was.
Retailers would have sold out ps5 and xsex without scalpers.And you wanna know what's ironic? Scalpers exist because retailers can't set their own prices, either by law or by the manufacturer.
Yes, of course. At MSRP, they would've flown out the window.Retailers would have sold out ps5 and xsex without scalpers.
Pretty much Econ 101. Then again they appear to think the scalpers function as a monopoly or a cartel. (With no evidence btw)Yes, of course. At MSRP, they would've flown out the window.
But let them compete with scalpers on pricing and now people with high end cards already on their rigs will think "maybe I don't need to upgrade right now" and leave those cards to those willing and able to buy them.
Now scalpers will have to lower their prices if they don't wanna lose money.
Then retailers will have to lower their prices in turn to not lose customers to scalpers.
And the cycle repeats until the price goes down to MSRP or close enough.