Scientists - Time to actively try to contact aliens using "active SETI"

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SniperHunter said:
I remember reading this book which mentioned aliens might be too advanced to be using radio signals. I remember the author mention communication via lasers. Is that even possible? I might be wrong, I read it in 2006 or so
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Light is easier to focus than radio, AFAIK. For long-distance communication, lasers are good.
Of course, even radio works over long distances if you put enough power to it...
 
That's a spectacularly shitty idea. We have no idea which races or civilizations exist elsewhere. For all we know, we could be actively poking some super advanced war race.
 
Stinkles said:
Given that almost all motile life we know of exists by consuming other life forms, we have zero reason to expect peaceful aliens. And plenty to expect Von Neumann machines.
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Well, I suppose if they were comprised of the same DNA we'd have reason to worry about being 'consumed'. But all this recent concern over "too intelligent" A.I. makes me think it isn't too far off that habitable epoch-era life forms may have been done in by their own self-replicating machines and are multiplying throughout this ever-expanding universe, just waiting to deem us inferior and enslave or destroy us.

Bring it on!
 
What's the big deal?
If they had the technology to reach our planet and "obliterate" it than they have the technology to realize that we exist.
Broadcasting signals wouldn't put the planet in jeopardy. It's ridiculous.
 
SniperHunter said:
This planet will be ruled by an artificial super intelligence by the time the aliens arrive. I am betting the AI will kick their ass.
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Depends. Alien civilisations are probably run by super-intelligences too. Controlling the solar system is a big home field advantage logistically, but if they're already some vast empire they can crack all our major bodies apart with RKVs and send in mop up crews.
 
Great. Were gonna contact a Type 2 civilization planet with a trillion inhabitants.

Pet humans can last pretty long in a cage and are more interactive than tickle me elmos
 
Loch Doun said:
What's the big deal?
If they had the technology to reach our planet and "obliterate" it than they have the technology to realize that we exist.
Broadcasting signals wouldn't put the planet in jeopardy. It's ridiculous.
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They might have the tech but not the reason to look at us. For all we know, they might be like "we shoot if someone notices us, otherwise, whatever, we don't care".
It is a frigging Russian Roulette.

EDIT And understand we have no way of knowing for sure. Aliens are just that, alien. Scifi nearly always portrays them wrongly, just humans that look (and perhaps function biologically) different.
 
marsattackspiercebrosnan500.jpg

An advanced civilization, by definition, is not barbaric.
 
abstract alien said:
I still believe the WOW! signal was from an alien race in Sagittarius. Nothing to base that on other than what I've read about it and dumb hope. This news pleases me. Humans are already doing a great job at wiping themselves out, so contacting Aliens isn't any different.

Hey, the Egyptians had good luck with aliens right?
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abstract alien
baby dolphin -> sun
it's the only way
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Depends. Alien civilisations are probably run by super-intelligences too. Controlling the solar system is a big home field advantage logistically, but if they're already some vast empire they can crack all our major bodies apart with RKVs and send in mop up crews.
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We are moving too slow. The Americans should have built a base on the moon already. At the rate they are going, we should be lucky to have humans land on Mars by 2100 or so. Interest in astronomy is at an all time low. Confirmation of intelligent alien life will go a long way to speed things up a bit.
 
If an advanced civilization hear us they'll probably ignore us.

The problem comes with not knowing what else could be out there, I doubt there's something like a Klingon race that conquers others but what if there's a species that doesn't see us as equals but as animals? we wouldn't try to colonize a planet with intelligent talking bipeds but we would colonize one that is populated with animal life, maybe the definition of animal life for another species is different from ours.
 
Woorloog said:
Frankly, the idea of this resulting in... well, results, offends me more than the stupidity of the idea in the first place.
At times, it feels like all SETI advocates forget the speed of light, how slow it is. I figure we may be very powerful by the time we might get a reply (unless it comes in form of a relativistic projectile). But what the heck are they trying to accomplish? Get some funding, press a button and then congratulate themselves... and then realize by the time the reply comes, they're dead and forgotten?
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You need to look at the age of the universe and how long ago planetary formation was. There's no reason another species could not have been where we are now but hundreds of thousands of years ago. And if they are that old, there is a good possibility that they have mastered all forms of energy and matter that we know of (and may not yet). I don't think it's right to say with 100% certainty that a species will never reach FTL given thousands and thousands of years of progress, or haven't at least discovered ways to circumvent light speed and the nasty limits it presents.
 
Lautaro said:
If an advanced civilization hear us they'll probably ignore us.

The problem comes with not knowing what else could be out there, I doubt there's something like a Klingon race that conquers others but what if there's a species that doesn't see us as equals but as animals? we wouldn't try to colonize a planet with intelligent talking bipeds but we would colonize one that is populated with animal life, maybe the definition of animal life for another species is different from ours.
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There's probably different kinds of alien races. A race that steals technology to advance, AI/robot race, angelic Vulcan race. You never know...of course the universe is simply too big and everyone might be stuck in their own little bubble
 
Every time a technologically advanced civilization interacts with a less techy one, the latter either gets destroyed or absorbed.

I don't see how aliens would be any different.
 
Fiction said:
I don't understand the don't do it, it's dangerous argument. We're a really noisy planet already, it's not like we are stealthy. If some agressively thing was out there hunting for targets, it'd have found us already.
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A noise that vanishes pretty quickly to the cosmic background radiation, as i understand it. An analogy, you may hear but not care about someone else listening to music somewhere but what if they shone a laser pen to your eyes?
FunkyMunkey said:
You need to look at the age of the universe and how long ago planetary formation was. There's no reason another species could not have been where we are now but hundreds of thousands of years ago. And if they are that old, there is a good possibility that they have mastered all forms of energy and matter that we know of (and may not yet). I don't think it's right to say with 100% certainty that a species will never reach FTL given thousands and thousands of years of progress, or haven't at least discovered ways to circumvent light speed and the nasty limits it presents.
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Planetary formation happens still. And there might be aliens that are on our level, or perhaps a bit more advanced. Even an advanced species might destroy others because of the risk a species may pose later.
Hope for the best, assume the worst, prepare for the worst.

EDIT Duh, didn't read your text completely. Should a species have ability to travel fast enough they might actually get here in our lifetimes, all bets are off. And that's an even bigger reason not to do it.
 
Fiction said:
I don't understand the don't do it, it's dangerous argument. We're a really noisy planet already, it's not like we are stealthy. If some agressively thing was out there hunting for targets, it'd have found us already.
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If they all have radio telescopes pointing to the sky scanning constantly they will notice us assuming they point in exactly the right place. If they don't use radio technology, and/or aren't scanning the sky for it, they will not notice us. The fact that we don't notice large scale radio transmissions means either that aliens don't exist, aliens don't exist close to us, or that aliens don't use that technology (either they are too primitive or too advanced; Radio is probably not going to be used indefinitely and has only been used for a very brief window of human history).
 
titiklabingapat said:
Every time a technologically advanced civilization interacts with a less techy one, the latter either gets destroyed or absorbed.

I don't see how aliens would be any different.
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Not only that, they'll want you to worship their shit or follow their beliefs/political views

Why would they be any different than the imposing shit we do *cough us world police*
 
It could go either way.

I think brutality and "survival of the fittest" is inherent in life forms that have evolved enough to make it that far. The "alpha" mentality and such. As much as we like to believe were civilized, humanity really isn't. So I doubt aliens would be either.

And so inviting beings that are capable of interstellar travel might not be the best idea? Unless they've somehow eliminated that mentality and biological impulse, they would probably kill us all and harvest our planet rather than share their knowledge.

But then again they could friendly too I guess. I really don't know.
 
TV and movies have made people paranoid about aliens. I don't think there would be a problem. Any aliens capable of interstellar travel wouldn't have anything to exploit from our planet, and I don't think they'd make the trip just to be dicks.

They would either ignore us, or a scientifically advanced species would be interested in exploration.

I think there would be a greater chance of good than bad. We could benefit greatly if they shared their info. Imagine if they showed up and said... Dang, you still got cancer? This is how you fix that shit.
 
Parch said:
TV and movies have made people paranoid about aliens. I don't think there would be a problem. Any aliens capable of interstellar travel wouldn't have anything to exploit from our planet, and I don't think they'd make the trip just to be dicks.

They would either ignore us, or a scientifically advanced species would be interested in exploration.

I think there would be a greater chance of good than bad. We could benefit greatly if they shared their info. Imagine if they showed up and said... Dang, you still got cancer? This is how you fix that shit.
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The entire history of human civilisation is one superior culture destroying another. What do you think inspired the tv shows and movies about aliens destroying us?
 
Woorloog said:
EDIT Duh, didn't read your text completely. Should a species have ability to travel fast enough they might actually get here in our lifetimes, all bets are off. And that's an even bigger reason not to do it.
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Oh yeah haha I agree. It's a complete gamble between contacting a species who has moved passed war or is currently in a long period between wars and could potentially be peaceful with us, or finding one who is bloodthirsty and led by the Genghis Khan of space. Or worse, one who has reached the pinnacle of organic/artificial evolution and consumes organic life like a plant or something.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ let's throw that dice I guess
 
Thinking Alien life would in any way be nice to us, considering what we know about life on this planet alone, is horribly and vastly naive.
 
Hulud said:
Not till we're free of Earth. We need the Golden Path.
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We don't need the Golden Path if there's no prescience in the first place.
If there is... well, then. Unless the aliens have that as well. Or have their equivalent of the Golden Path. Problematic.
 
"The newest children in a strange and uncertain cosmos should listen quietly for a long time, patiently learning about the universe and comparing notes, before shouting into an unknown jungle that we do not understand.” -Carl Sagan

Seriously, this idea is just terrible. Just keep using the regular SETI.

Even if a civilization more advanced than us is probably benevolent and wise (otherwise they might have wiped themselves out), there's no telling if an "evil" one somehow survived and is hunting for resources or something, or that the benevolent does not care and is indifferent for life on a planet like Earth. Do we really want to test the Fermi Paradox when we still have so much to learn and to do?
 
SniperHunter said:
way too many variables involved. they could be nice like the vulcans or be blood thirsty like the romulans
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Like I said above I think it's the nature of life to be "alpha", what with " survival of the fittest", natural selection, and all. So unless somehow they've evolved that impulse to conquer out of their inherent biology, I don't think the outcome would bode well for us.
 
SniperHunter said:
way too many variables involved. they could be nice like the vulcans or be blood thirsty like the romulans
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The only thing we have to judge on that is "intelligent" is ourselves. Of course other life forms would have evolved totally separate from us and may be totally different in terms of thinking.

My bet is.........eh probably not. And we as a collective are pretty messed up, just ask every other life form on the planet.
 
The Shogun said:
The only thing we have to judge on that is "intelligent" is ourselves. Of course other life forms would have evolved totally separate from us and may be totally different in terms of thinking.

My bet is.........eh probably not. And we as a collective are pretty messed up, just ask every other life form on the planet.
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Then again, we don't know how a species with a thousand years more of physical and intellectual evolution thinks like. It could go both ways as you say.
 
Juan29.zapata said:
"The newest children in a strange and uncertain cosmos should listen quietly for a long time, patiently learning about the universe and comparing notes, before shouting into an unknown jungle that we do not understand.” -Carl Sagan

Seriously, this idea is just terrible. Just keep using the regular SETI.

Even if a civilization more advanced than us is probably benevolent and wise (otherwise they might have wiped themselves out), there's no telling if an "evil" one somehow survived and is hunting for resources or something, or that the benevolent does not care and is indifferent for life on a planet like Earth. Do we really want to test the Fermi Paradox when we still have so much to learn and to do?
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Damn thats a killer quote by Sagan. words of wisdom
 
Konka said:
It's not like we'd actually contact anyone. The Universe in unimaginably huge.
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All the more reason to think we actually will contact someone. I don't know if life is necessarily the way we tend to view it in human terms, but the Universe is large enough that there is no question life, sentient life, or even civilized and intelligent life also exists or has existed outside of Earth.
 
Juan29.zapata said:
Then again, we don't know how a species with a thousand years more of physical and intellectual evolution thinks like. It could go both ways as you say.
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The main reason I don't see them as being this benevolent beings that some portray is.....why?

How in the hell would helping puny beings like us help them in any way? Wouldn't it benefit them more, if they found us, to simply just harvest everything from here they could then bail?

One thing we do know for certain is the Universe is hostile as hell to forms of life. I'm willing to bet any advanced civilization would be looking for every advantage they can get. This is assuming there are even intelligent beings anywhere near us, something I'm not convinced of any ways.

Madness said:
All the more reason to think we actually will contact someone. I don't know if life is necessarily the way we tend to view it in human terms, but the Universe is large enough that there is no question life, sentient life, or even civilized and intelligent life also exists or has existed outside of Earth.
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Millions of life forms exist on Earth fine without any form of "higher Intelligence". I for sure believe in extraterrestrial life, but assuming evolution leads to intelligence on any sort of regular basis may not be true. It may be incredibly rare what we have.
 
Parch said:
TV and movies have made people paranoid about aliens. I don't think there would be a problem. Any aliens capable of interstellar travel wouldn't have anything to exploit from our planet, and I don't think they'd make the trip just to be dicks.
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Extensive discussion available here. See the sections starting at "The Fermi Paradox" and more specifically "The Killing Star".

The discussion begins from Pellegrino & Zebrowski (note: Pellegrino is the man who did advisory work for Cameron on the strikingly plausible spacecraft in Avatar):

The great silence (i.e. absence of SETI signals from alien civilizations) is perhaps the strongest indicator of all that high relativistic velocities are attainable and that everybody out there knows it.

The sobering truth is that relativistic civilizations are a potential nightmare to anyone living within range of them. The problem is that objects traveling at an appreciable fraction of light speed are never where you see them when you see them (i.e., light-speed lag). Relativistic rockets, if their owners turn out to be less than benevolent, are both totally unstoppable and totally destructive. A starship weighing in at 1,500 tons (approximately the weight of a fully fueled space shuttle sitting on the launchpad) impacting an earthlike planet at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed will release 1.5 million megatons of energy -- an explosive force equivalent to 150 times today's global nuclear arsenal...

I'm not going to talk about ideas. I'm going to talk about reality. It will probably not be good for us ever to build and fire up an antimatter engine. According to Powell, given the proper detecting devices, a Valkyrie engine burn could be seen out to a radius of several light-years and may draw us into a game we'd rather not play, a game in which, if we appear to be even the vaguest threat to another civilization and if the resources are available to eliminate us, then it is logical to do so.
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In general, it is not just advanced civilisations that need to be feared, but also members of advanced civilisations. If somebody can own an interstellar starship, they are a threat on a planetary scale if they are not benevolent. If a civilisation is not actively policed at a high level, and their advanced technology is at their disposal, people acting on their own accord could subjugate primitive planets or destroy on a whim.
 
Woorloog said:
We don't need the Golden Path if there's no prescience in the first place.
If there is... well, then. Unless the aliens have that as well. Or have their equivalent of the Golden Path. Problematic.
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The Scattering was part of the Path, though. That's what we need. Being confined to one planet is too dangerous.
 
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